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(ABC)   G-20 will inject $5 trillion into global economy. G-4 will sink your battleship   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 286
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8707 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Apr 2009 at 3:10 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-04-02 06:38:13 PM
All2morrowsparTs: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Coeriv: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Where is that 5 trillion coming from?

This.

It's as useless as a stimulous package for a nation. Just the "Throw money at it" mentality.

It's not even real money. They just create it out of thin air and expect it to mean something.

You don't think the full faith and strength of the US doesn't mean anything?

man people really need to take some economics classes.


you to rethink your comment This is america, year 2009.

Full faith and credit. Don t make me laugh.
 
2009-04-02 06:40:07 PM
Dwight_Yeast: boomerzz: captain_heroic44:

But yes, I do believe Obama's spending is radically different than Bush's.

So do I, about 5x different over a shorter timespan.

So you see no difference between a useless war and trying to keep us out of another Great Depression?

okay.


Actually there is no difference. It's throwing more debt after bad debt in both cases. It's what will cause the Greater Depression, in both cases.

The fascist economic policies that we have been pursuing since 1913 are what got us to this mess. You can't spend your way out of bankruptcy, you can only STOP SPENDING MONEY until you pay your debts off. That means no more war. That means scaling back the redundant times ten national security bureaucracy. That means ALL the troops come home. That means no socializing health care.

It even means that yes, sadly, a bunch of overpaid incompetents and thieves at major lending institutions will have to fend for themselves on only the billions that they've stolen when their ponzi scheming banks crash. It means American car companies that only really have administration jobs left in this country will probably have to be parted out on the auction block when they go under.

Let it all burn down. It will make it easier to build something worthwhile if we don't have to pay for demolition costs.
 
2009-04-02 06:44:44 PM
Thunderpipes: Why can't we all of a sudden just say "Heh China, we aren't going to repay anything we owe you, suckers!"

What are they going to do, pass a non-binding UN resolution on us? Can't we as a country just declare bankruptcy? We could allow Japan to be a favored creditor, since they actually are on our side more or less.


My dad said when he was in Korea, the Chicom hoards came over the mountains like ants. Blowing whistles and shooting up everything. But that was Korea. This time, they have to get on the beach first.
 
2009-04-02 06:45:14 PM
el aguila: All2morrowsparTs: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Coeriv: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Where is that 5 trillion coming from?

This.

It's as useless as a stimulous package for a nation. Just the "Throw money at it" mentality.

It's not even real money. They just create it out of thin air and expect it to mean something.

You don't think the full faith and strength of the US doesn't mean anything?

man people really need to take some economics classes.

you to rethink your comment This is america, year 2009.

Full faith and credit. Don t make me laugh.


You really need to be honest here. We are the number one, by far, player in any sense of the word in this world. China? Their economy is 1/10th of what the US' is. Military? No one even a remotely close anything. Freedoms and diversity? Once again, no one comes close.

We may have a weak tit socalist scaredy pants in the Oval Office now, it will not last and we will get back to work in a few years, it will work out.

But to even think the US is not the dominant power in the world is just being a Farking retard.
 
2009-04-02 06:47:00 PM
Dwight_Yeast: keypusher: bronyaur1: In other news, all that blather that "Obama is too inexperienced to get what he wants on the world political stage" are complete bullshiat.

What are you talking about?

It was an argument made against him and for McCain during the election. It lead to the tour of Europe he did which got him compared to Hitler here.

In reality: what's happened is that he's getting along better with the G20 than Bush did and he's already laid the groundwork of important relationships. Some are easy (like the UK), some are tricky (like France; getting France to like anything is hard), and some will be very difficult (Russia).


Um, yeah, I was in America during the election and remember what was said. But contrary to bronyaur1's post, Obama didn't "get" anything at this meeting. The G-20 issued a communique, which is French for "press release" saying "this recession is terrible and we will all stand together and fight it!" Which means nothing.

As for the bilateral relationships you mention, he's screwing up the easy one (the UK).

I agree he's doing better than Bush, which isn't hard. But the idea that he "got" anything, or showed anyone anything at this gabfest, is just sheer ignorance.
 
2009-04-02 06:47:01 PM
GaryPDX: Only one thing happens when governments throw money from roof tops. People act like hungry piranhas until it stops. Then they go about their business. Stop throwing money at the dark evil vortex.

I understand what you're saying, and I'd agree if they were actually just "throwing money from the rooftops". But the article doesn't say, and neither of us can pretend to know, exactly how the money will be spent. That has everything to do with how effective this will turn out to be. For instance, lets say we want to help fix Africa's infrastructure. We could give $100 million to the local officials and let them do with it what they may. Probably not terribly effective, given rampant corruption and little guarantee of efficacy. OR we could, ourselves, hire local workers at a fair wage to build their own infrastructure. A lot more bang for the buck, clearly.

Basically, the criticism is too broad.
Your conclusion doesn't follow unless you ignore the fact that there are many and varied ways to spend money to accomplish something.
 
2009-04-02 06:50:58 PM
Gawdzila: GaryPDX: Only one thing happens when governments throw money from roof tops. People act like hungry piranhas until it stops. Then they go about their business. Stop throwing money at the dark evil vortex.

I understand what you're saying, and I'd agree if they were actually just "throwing money from the rooftops". But the article doesn't say, and neither of us can pretend to know, exactly how the money will be spent. That has everything to do with how effective this will turn out to be. For instance, lets say we want to help fix Africa's infrastructure. We could give $100 million to the local officials and let them do with it what they may. Probably not terribly effective, given rampant corruption and little guarantee of efficacy. OR we could, ourselves, hire local workers at a fair wage to build their own infrastructure. A lot more bang for the buck, clearly.

Basically, the criticism is too broad.
Your conclusion doesn't follow unless you ignore the fact that there are many and varied ways to spend money to accomplish something.


We cannot even do that in our own country. How many jobs have been created with stimulous money to date? Historically it takes years for the money to get out there, and hardly any jobs actually spring up because of it. This is not an Obama jab, just a waste of money fact. To quote my favorite teacher:

"Something given has no value!"
 
2009-04-02 06:52:29 PM
"Something given has no value!"

hehe, you sure about that?
 
2009-04-02 06:55:59 PM
acidsurfer: "Something given has no value!"

hehe, you sure about that?


If it had value, why would the idiot give it away? Just a line from a movie anyway. But handing out money simply does not produce jobs and true economic recovery, it really doesn't. Getting people to earn money for themselves does.
 
2009-04-02 06:58:04 PM
Thunderpipes: Why can't we all of a sudden just say "Heh China, we aren't going to repay anything we owe you, suckers!"

What are they going to do, pass a non-binding UN resolution on us? Can't we as a country just declare bankruptcy? We could allow Japan to be a favored creditor, since they actually are on our side more or less.


If your taxes are at all up to date, barry is looking for your type of cutting edge, financial wizardry.

Oh, by the way, I never wrote that we were less than number 1.

If anyone thinks we re going to pull out of this mess in a couple of years......driving hummers and living in 5 br mcmansions.....THAT is just being a farktard!

Ask the american indians about the full faith of the US govt. Hows about Saddam.....oooops, forgot that the Bushes bury their mistakes.
 
2009-04-02 07:04:20 PM
Ask the american indians about the full faith of the US govt. Hows about Saddam.....oooops, forgot that the Bushes bury their mistakes.

American Indians were weak and died. That was many, many years ago, like 12 I think.

Saddam, well, he was evil, is dead, and Iraq is recovering nicely. Not sure where you are going on that one Spanky. Besides, Democrats and crunchies are putting more faith in government than ever before in history, by pushing to have them run every aspect of our lives, even decide who can make money. Which side are you on?
 
2009-04-02 07:20:25 PM
Thunderpipes: We cannot even do that in our own country. Historically it takes years for the money to get out there, and hardly any jobs actually spring up because of it. This is not an Obama jab, just a waste of money fact.

Uh, really?
Do none of the contractors who build our roads, bridges, government buildings, schools, etc. get paid, or what? As far as I know, lots of people get paid by government money for doing, you know... jobs. The government creates a market, private industry fills it.

Maybe the stimulus plan hasn't made a ton of jobs yet, I don't rightly know. But then, how long has it been? It is aiming to create a market for things like renewable energy. The idea is that the free market will not direct energy companies towards renewables quickly enough, so the government helps steer the market to our own ends. Since the renewables industry is small right now, growth in that area creates jobs. It doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. Sweeping generalizations like "Something given has no value!" simply don't apply here. That is the case when commodities are handed out for nothing, but that isn't what is happening here. Money is being provided to people who do what the government wants them to do, and not in limitless amounts. Like throwing a dog a bone when it sits or rolls over. Your oversimplification is misrepresenting the issue.
 
2009-04-02 07:21:22 PM
Thunderpipes: American Indians were weak and died. That was many, many years ago, like 12 I think.

Saddam, well, he was evil, is dead, and Iraq is recovering nicely.


Oh, hahaha. I get it, you're trolling. Got me :)
 
2009-04-02 07:28:03 PM
Oh, my achin' head.

I was going to craft a basic explanation of the theories behind stimulus spending -- and why almost everyone who knows anything about economics understands its necessity in our current situation -- but the level of economics 101 FAIL in this thread is overwhelming.

If you don't know about multipliers, different measures of money, and velocity of money, read up and come back when you've got a clue.
 
2009-04-02 07:29:07 PM
dingleberryaction: You can purify your own creek water if you don't want to pay others to do it for you.

Do you not need to buy a filter or tablets?



That's one option. Google 'camping supplies'.
 
2009-04-02 07:51:34 PM
jasimo: Oh, my achin' head.

I was going to craft a basic explanation of the theories behind stimulus spending -- and why almost everyone who knows anything about economics understands its necessity in our current situation -- but the level of economics 101 FAIL in this thread is overwhelming.

If you don't know about multipliers, different measures of money, and velocity of money, read up and come back when you've got a clue.


But that is not gut felt common sense that I have lived all my life by. That is elitist book learnin'.

Ironically, I left business school more center left than I started after learning the reality of laffer curves, monetary policy, and over all macro-economics.

It would be ineresting to see if opinions changed when they found out that poor people spending is better for the economy than giving rich people tax breaks.
 
2009-04-02 07:55:56 PM
dripping with sarcasm: G-spot:

/Dunno, never been able to find it


It's not difficult. Ridgy thing right as you stick your finger in, palm up, and hook it a bit.
 
2009-04-02 07:57:27 PM
mikeely.files.wordpress.com

/hotlinked
 
2009-04-02 07:58:09 PM
Thunderpipes: If it had value, why would the idiot give it away? Just a line from a movie anyway. But handing out money simply does not produce jobs and true economic recovery, it really doesn't. Getting people to earn money for themselves does.

Redneckonomics 101.
 
2009-04-02 08:00:47 PM
Jarhead_h: Actually there is no difference. It's throwing more debt after bad debt in both cases. It's what will cause the Greater Depression, in both cases.

Chree-ist you're farking stupid. Ron Paul fan, aren't you? I can always tell.

keypusher: Um, yeah, I was in America during the election and remember what was said. But contrary to bronyaur1's post, Obama didn't "get" anything at this meeting. The G-20 issued a communique, which is French for "press release" saying "this recession is terrible and we will all stand together and fight it!" Which means nothing.

They also said that there would be international regulations to keep this from happening again. That's big. That's why the G8+12, er G20 exists.

keypusher: As for the bilateral relationships you mention, he's screwing up the easy one (the UK).

How so? (and if you use the word DVD or iPod in your response, we'll all know you're a dittohead.)
 
2009-04-02 08:02:56 PM
JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Where is that 5 trillion coming from?

Hint: they make pee-pee in your Coke
 
2009-04-02 08:06:51 PM
All2morrowsparTs: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Coeriv: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: Where is that 5 trillion coming from?

This.

It's as useless as a stimulous package for a nation. Just the "Throw money at it" mentality.

It's not even real money. They just create it out of thin air and expect it to mean something.

You don't think the full faith and strength of the US doesn't mean anything?

man people really need to take some economics classes.


It means less and less every time you print money.

I know we are at the edge of a deflationary cycle, but hyperinflation is a tipping point situation. You don't gradually find hyperinflation happening, the circumstances line up, everything seems at least a little normal, and then it tips and you get Zimbabwe. Malcolm Gladwell shows this principle in his book "The Tipping Point", major changes happen all at once, not slowly over time.

In the last 6 months, our national debt has gone up $12,000,000,000,000. (I refuse to use "Trillion", "billion" or "million", I prefer to really let people count the zeros.)

$12,000,000,000,000. In 6 months.

our credit will go from AAA to junk overnight if we keep this up, especially if we make everything into legacy programs as the stimulus package does.

The value of the US dollar is

(Value of the US economy) / (Number of dollars in circulation)

the numerator is not growing, but the denominator is growing by leaps and bounds. When they just print money it is the most cleaver form of theft imaginable. They are stealing our money by reducing it's value when they print their own.

I don't care how much Keynesian theory makes sense, it is organized theft on a massive scale, and I don't want it. I'd rather see a depression than see the government steal my money and my freedom in one fell swoop.
 
2009-04-02 08:07:39 PM
Hank Rearden: /hotlinked

Hahah funny.. nice morph.

Truth be told, I think all the people who were "IF YOU DONT VOTE FOR OBAMA, YOU ARE A RACIST" are now reexamining their zealotry.
 
2009-04-02 08:07:40 PM
5 tril? Dawg we spent that much yesterday!
 
2009-04-02 08:09:56 PM
MadSkillz: Truth be told, I think all the people who were "IF YOU DONT VOTE FOR OBAMA, YOU ARE A RACIST" are now reexamining their zealotry.

Not really; the people who didn't vote for Obama because he's (part) black are still racists. It's not like him doing a good job (or a bad job) changes that overnight.
 
2009-04-02 08:20:30 PM
hetheeme:

In the last 6 months, our national debt has gone up $12,000,000,000,000.


How do you arrive at that figure, please?
 
2009-04-02 08:22:31 PM
But missing from the deal were specifics on the financial rules, how banks would unload their toxic assets, let alone any clarity on the actual size of stimulus already in the pipeline. Brown did not say how the $5 trillion squared with an estimate he gave just a day earlier of about half that amount. Indeed, Obama spoke of around $2 trillion rather than five

Translation: 5 trillion spent with no plan on how it will be spent or regulated. Global FAIL!!!!
 
2009-04-02 08:27:53 PM
Yankees Team Gynecologist: Thunderpipes: If it had value, why would the idiot give it away? Just a line from a movie anyway. But handing out money simply does not produce jobs and true economic recovery, it really doesn't. Getting people to earn money for themselves does.

Redneckonomics 101.



Earning money is Redneck? Holy crap. Has Fark really gotten that bad? You guys really just need to grow up a little. Go out and work for crying out loud and quit demanding handouts. Sooner or later there will be no one there to pay for you.
 
2009-04-02 08:30:50 PM
Thomas Jefferson:

"If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their money,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks and corporations that will
grow up around them (around the banks),
will deprive the people of their property
until their children will wake up homeless
on the continent their fathers conquered."
 
2009-04-02 08:32:14 PM
In case you missed it, this is what a trillion dollars looks like. Poppity: Link (new window)

/Take your heart medications, Grandpa. You'll need them.
 
2009-04-02 08:32:16 PM
Thunderpipes: Earning money is Redneck?

No, being a moron with a closed head wound like yourself who thinks that aggression and force are all that are needed to solve every situation is VERY definitively redneck in origin.

You also strike me as the sort that's said (on more than one occasion): "hey man, hold my beer and watch this!"
 
2009-04-02 08:32:35 PM
Thunderpipes: Earning money is Redneck?

Failing to understand the situation is redneck.

And boy, do you fail in that regard.
 
2009-04-02 08:37:45 PM
Hello New World Order

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/311353.html

I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good idea.
 
2009-04-02 08:38:41 PM
bmihura: Thomas Jefferson:

"If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their money,


There's a reason Jefferson's name never came up when Washington was looking for a Secretary of the Treasury.

There's also a reason the man died so deeply in debt that his entire estate was sold at auction and still didn't cover his bills.

They're the same reason.
 
2009-04-02 08:41:45 PM
captain_heroic44
Critical thinking. It's what's for dinner.

And that ain't wine you're drinking. It's the special Jim Jones Koolaid.
 
2009-04-02 08:49:05 PM
You also strike me as the sort that's said (on more than one occasion): "hey man, hold my beer and watch this!"

The fact you think that is a bad thing means you are a pussy. Try getting laid, fatty. You Farkers ever do anything in your life that is fun or productive? Or you hang in Mom's basement and fap to pictures of a gorilla?
 
2009-04-02 08:53:37 PM
Dwight_Yeast:

keypusher: Um, yeah, I was in America during the election and remember what was said. But contrary to bronyaur1's post, Obama didn't "get" anything at this meeting. The G-20 issued a communique, which is French for "press release" saying "this recession is terrible and we will all stand together and fight it!" Which means nothing.

They also said that there would be international regulations to keep this from happening again. That's big. That's why the G8+12, er G20 exists.


No, it's not big. It's exactly what governments convening in the midst of a financial crisis are going to say. It's exactly what the G-8 did say after the Asian crisis+Russian meltdown+Long Term Capital Management collapse of the late 90s. And yet here we are.

keypusher: As for the bilateral relationships you mention, he's screwing up the easy one (the UK).

How so? (and if you use the word DVD or iPod in your response, we'll all know you're a dittohead.)


Goddammit! I have never listened to Rush Limbaugh in my life. In fact those gifts sucked, they pissed people off, and you just have to read the English papers to know it. Since you apparently don't know that, you're just another provincial American, for whom nothing exists until it appears in the U.S. media.

Now Obama has a lot of goodwill everywhere, including in the UK, because he's not Bush. The fact that he committed some stupid protocol blunders doesn't outweigh the fact that he was opposed to the Iraq war, which is as unpopular in England as it is everywhere else on Earth (except the US). But a blunder is still a blunder.
 
2009-04-02 08:53:43 PM
Thunderpipes: Or you hang in Mom's basement and fap to pictures of a gorilla?

No, that's a pic of my mom. Love you, mom!

/I can see your wound is acting up again.
//either you really have a serious mental disorder, as your mood swings wildly from post to post
//or you suck at trolling
 
2009-04-02 08:55:54 PM
5 trillion spent with no plan on how it will be spent or regulated. Global FAIL!!!!

Yes, that. Unless you're one of the bankers behind the idea.
 
2009-04-02 08:56:01 PM
Dwight_Yeast: Thunderpipes: Or you hang in Mom's basement and fap to pictures of a gorilla?

No, that's a pic of my mom. Love you, mom!

/I can see your wound is acting up again.
//either you really have a serious mental disorder, as your mood swings wildly from post to post
//or you suck at trolling


0/10

Now who sucks? Bottom line is, Farkers call earning money Redneck, and not bowing down to weaker nations Redneck. Why is this? You cannot answer, so you will cry foul and biatch and say stupid crap.

Try debating.
 
2009-04-02 08:56:27 PM
keypusher: Goddammit! I have never listened to Rush Limbaugh in my life. In fact those gifts sucked, they pissed people off, and you just have to read the English papers to know it

The British papers? You mean the ones owned by Rupert Murdoch? He's worse than Rush for supplying you dittoheads with blanks to keep shooting yourself in the heads with!

Brown has said NOTHING about the DVD's (and strikes me as a man so boring that a movie and a lager are a big night for him) and the Queen's people said SHE ASKED FOR THE FREAKING iPOD!
 
2009-04-02 08:59:24 PM
Thunderpipes: Now who sucks? Bottom line is, Farkers call earning money Redneck, and not bowing down to weaker nations Redneck. Why is this? You cannot answer, so you will cry foul and biatch and say stupid crap.

Try debating.


Try using logic and reason and I will.

You get three more posts.
 
2009-04-02 09:02:25 PM
Mongo cut wood: But missing from the deal were specifics on the financial rules, how banks would unload their toxic assets, let alone any clarity on the actual size of stimulus already in the pipeline. Brown did not say how the $5 trillion squared with an estimate he gave just a day earlier of about half that amount. Indeed, Obama spoke of around $2 trillion rather than five

Translation: 5 trillion spent with no plan on how it will be spent or regulated. Global FAIL!!!!


Oh, we know how it's going to be spent (video).

It's a nice little scam.
 
2009-04-02 09:05:33 PM
that_other_internet: Oh, we know how it's going to be spent (video).

That's amazingly retarded. And wrong.
 
2009-04-02 09:10:55 PM
Dwight_Yeast: Thunderpipes: Now who sucks? Bottom line is, Farkers call earning money Redneck, and not bowing down to weaker nations Redneck. Why is this? You cannot answer, so you will cry foul and biatch and say stupid crap.

Try debating.

Try using logic and reason and I will.

You get three more posts.


Okay meatsmoke.

Why should we give a rat's ass if France likes us? You think they will somehow show us favorable trade agreements, back us up in the war on terror, or show some backbone when it comes to China and Russia and North Korea?

No. They will not. France will do what France wants and what it sees as best for it. Kissing their ass will not get us anything, but will cost us respect and our status in the world will drop.

You will say it has dropped, well, no. The fact that the EU is trying to get together to oppose us (and that is what they are doing) and still failing just shows how powerful we are. The only status loss is what liberal people like Farkers pull our of their assholes.

What is next, making terrorists like us?

Bet you won't even begin to answer any of this. Pusscake.
 
2009-04-02 09:11:41 PM
Yet another Economic condition exploited by a socialist president to expand government
 
2009-04-02 09:12:02 PM
i361.photobucket.com

/actually made quite awhiles ago
 
2009-04-02 09:16:13 PM
Thunderpipes: Dwight_Yeast: Thunderpipes: Now who sucks? Bottom line is, Farkers call earning money Redneck, and not bowing down to weaker nations Redneck. Why is this? You cannot answer, so you will cry foul and biatch and say stupid crap.

Try debating.

Try using logic and reason and I will.

You get three more posts.

Okay meatsmoke.

Why should we give a rat's ass if France likes us? You think they will somehow show us favorable trade agreements, back us up in the war on terror, or show some backbone when it comes to China and Russia and North Korea?

No. They will not. France will do what France wants and what it sees as best for it. Kissing their ass will not get us anything, but will cost us respect and our status in the world will drop.

You will say it has dropped, well, no. The fact that the EU is trying to get together to oppose us (and that is what they are doing) and still failing just shows how powerful we are. The only status loss is what liberal people like Farkers pull our of their assholes.

What is next, making terrorists like us?

Bet you won't even begin to answer any of this. Pusscake.


Dwight_Yeast, I know you said you'd give him three more posts to use logic and reason, but this post has got to count for at LEAST three strikes.
 
2009-04-02 09:16:52 PM
Dwight_Yeast: keypusher: Goddammit! I have never listened to Rush Limbaugh in my life. In fact those gifts sucked, they pissed people off, and you just have to read the English papers to know it

The British papers? You mean the ones owned by Rupert Murdoch? He's worse than Rush for supplying you dittoheads with blanks to keep shooting yourself in the heads with!

Brown has said NOTHING about the DVD's (and strikes me as a man so boring that a movie and a lager are a big night for him) and the Queen's people said SHE ASKED FOR THE FREAKING iPOD!


No, both the Murdoch and the non-Murdoch press panned the gifts. But you're just a partisan hack. Obama is very different from Bush, but this G-20 meeting would have followed the exact same script had Bush still been president. But you're convinced this mattered because of the name and political affiliation of the president in attendance. That's boring and stupid of you.
 
2009-04-02 09:20:30 PM
keypusher: No, both the Murdoch and the non-Murdoch press panned the gifts. But you're just a partisan hack.

[citation needed]

And given that there are already bankers meeting (and have been for a couple of months) about creating international banking regulations, I'll let the rest of your comments stand in its own wet spot, like a puppy.
 
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