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(ESPN)   BoSox pitcher John Smoltz imitates Clay Aiken; says his first mound session was "awkward"   (sports.espn.go.com) divider line
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1305 clicks; posted to Sports » on 26 Mar 2009 at 3:41 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2009-03-26 03:32:59 AM  
So the pitcher ahead of Smoltz in the rotation will be cheered for a day and then immediately forgotten?
 
2009-03-26 04:17:57 AM  
*golf clap* subbie.
 
2009-03-26 04:23:26 AM  
danielsjourney.comView Full Size
 
2009-03-26 05:05:56 AM  
Subby that is not possible, Aiken never visited a mound.
 
2009-03-26 07:12:32 AM  
i96.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2009-03-26 09:33:07 AM  
Enjoy him while you can boston, he will be done by the all star break and not be ready to go the rest of the season, my guess is he may last 2 years then retire because of his injuries.
 
2009-03-26 09:41:10 AM  

steamingpile: Enjoy him while you can boston, he will be done by the all star break and not be ready to go the rest of the season, my guess is he may last 2 years then retire because of his injuries.


The last report I heard was that the Red Sox weren't counting on him making any contributions until AFTER the All Star Break. So maybe they'll use him for the stretch run before he gets injured before the playoffs. I see him as a low risk, high reward guy who could really help a pennant race down the stretch if (big if) healthy, but the Sox hopefully won't be dependent on him given their pitching depth.
 
2009-03-26 09:45:42 AM  
I was looking through my stockpile of tickets for this season and found out that I have front row seats down by the Pesky Pole on a Sunday in August against the Yankees. Debating now whether or not to sell them for $$ on StubHub. Daddy's got to pay for daycare, but then again, I can't see missing that game. Ugh.

Hopefully Smoltz will be able to make it through the season. I'm not holding my breath though.
 
2009-03-26 10:15:50 AM  

stevie1der: steamingpile: Enjoy him while you can boston, he will be done by the all star break and not be ready to go the rest of the season, my guess is he may last 2 years then retire because of his injuries.

The last report I heard was that the Red Sox weren't counting on him making any contributions until AFTER the All Star Break. So maybe they'll use him for the stretch run before he gets injured before the playoffs. I see him as a low risk, high reward guy who could really help a pennant race down the stretch if (big if) healthy, but the Sox hopefully won't be dependent on him given their pitching depth.


He was on the radio here in Atlanta this morning. They don't plan on him being in the rotation until June. He will pitch through pain, seem him do it numerous times here and still be effective. He may not get you 6-7 innings an outing though.
 
2009-03-26 10:39:48 AM  
Ha ha, session.
 
2009-03-26 11:21:21 AM  

stevie1der: The last report I heard was that the Red Sox weren't counting on him making any contributions until AFTER the All Star Break. So maybe they'll use him for the stretch run before he gets injured before the playoffs. I see him as a low risk, high reward guy who could really help a pennant race down the stretch if (big if) healthy, but the Sox hopefully won't be dependent on him given their pitching depth.


He's not all that low-risk. The Red Sox signed him for $5.5M plus $5M in potential incentives. I can't find the details on the incentives, but there is nonetheless the possibility that they're paying back-of-rotation-but-full-time SP money (or decent closer money) for a guy who won't be healthy all year.

The Red Sox have a lot of money ($133M last year), but $5.5M is something that could have strengthened them at another position (C, SS, CF, middle relief in that order).

Even in your scenario, let's say that Smoltz is good for three months, making half a season's starts, but then can't pitch in the postseason. That's probably enough to get him into the $8M range, since some incentives will be set low. Do you think a full-time Smoltz would be worth $16M at age 42?
 
2009-03-26 11:23:24 AM  
That headline was just so wrong.

BoSox pitcher John Smoltz

So, so wrong.

/Braves management. "Idiots," as said by Patricia Heaton on Everybody Loves Raymond
 
2009-03-26 11:39:48 AM  
Smoltz is personal friends with Tiger Woods, Doc Rivers, and Jeff Foxworthy. The man is awesome!
 
2009-03-26 11:52:50 AM  
BravesTigers management. "Idiots,"

Never forget how the Braves got Smoltz to begin with.

Really Detroit, Doyle Alexander?
 
2009-03-26 11:58:26 AM  

chimp_ninja: Even in your scenario, let's say that Smoltz is good for three months, making half a season's starts, but then can't pitch in the postseason. That's probably enough to get him into the $8M range, since some incentives will be set low. Do you think a full-time Smoltz would be worth $16M at age 42?


How is that relevant? There's no scenario in which the Red Sox owe him $16 million. His contract is based on him coming back in June and his incentives are based on him being healthy and pitching into the playoffs. And come playoff time I would take a 42 year old Smoltz for $10mil over a 0-0 playoff record AJ Burnett for $16mil.
 
2009-03-26 12:01:03 PM  
Clay Buccholz kinda looks like Clay...actually, he resembles Dj Qualls. Did you know that Fuccholz bought a $350k Masserati and had the best car in the Sox parking lot last season despite the fact he hasn't made much real money, yet. I believe he signed a 1.2M contract. After taxes and agent, he must have only a few grand left and if he continues pitching the way he has, he may be back to stealing laptops in no time.
 
2009-03-26 12:13:31 PM  

Tjos Weel: BravesTigers management. "Idiots,"

Never forget how the Braves got Smoltz to begin with.

Really Detroit, Doyle Alexander?


Dont begin to think they are the worst management over the last 20 years. I give you my NY METS front office picking up or letting go gems that include

mo vaughn
bobby bonilla
Jason Isnrenhausen and paul byrd(both let go)
Rico Brongna
Jose Visciano(let go)
ARMANDO farking BENITEZ! (WHYYYYY, NOOOOOOOO)

to name a few
 
2009-03-26 12:13:55 PM  

chimp_ninja: The Red Sox have a lot of money ($133M last year), but $5.5M is something that could have strengthened them at another position (C, SS, CF, middle relief in that order).


You know they could afford both? The only thing the Sox weren't willing to do were big money-long term deals this off season. The only argument you can make is that Smoltz is taking up a roster slot that Buccholz or Tichizowa or whatever his name is could have used.

Given the framework of the Sox budget, Smoltz is low risk.
 
2009-03-26 12:34:00 PM  

chimp_ninja: The Red Sox have a lot of money ($133M last year), but $5.5M is something that could have strengthened them at another position (C, SS, CF, middle relief in that order).


GimpyNip already covered it, but I have a really hard time believing that 5.5 million for John Smoltz prevented them at all from improving those other positions. More likely, they looked at what was out there, and they decided nothing for that 5.5 million was an upgrade over Varitek, Lowrie/Lugo, and Ellsbury. You can argue there was something out there, I'm just saying Sox management wouldn't agree with you.

I'm also not exactly sure if middle relief is a big question mark. If you assume Papelbon and Okajima get the ball for the 8/9 innings, you're left with Delcarmen, Masterson, Saito, Lopez, and Ramirez. I'll take that bullpen over a lot of other teams in the league.
 
2009-03-26 12:35:01 PM  
GoteamVenture

bunch of idiotic Mets moves snipped

Im a Reds fan. We hired Dusty Baker.

We win. That right there is more idiotic than everything the Mets have done since 1961 combined.
 
2009-03-26 12:45:58 PM  
This was one of the better, more witty headlines in a long time. I am well pleased, subby.

Now dance, DANCE for my amusement!
 
2009-03-26 01:47:15 PM  

MooseMuffin: How is that relevant? There's no scenario in which the Red Sox owe him $16 million.


They owe him ~$8M for half a season. If you consider that a fair price for his rotation spot (I don't), they either accept less quality the other half of the year (the route they're taking), or they could try to spend $8M on another pitcher to fill the missing 17 starts.

stevie1der: GimpyNip already covered it, but I have a really hard time believing that 5.5 million for John Smoltz prevented them at all from improving those other positions. More likely, they looked at what was out there, and they decided nothing for that 5.5 million was an upgrade over Varitek, Lowrie/Lugo, and Ellsbury. You can argue there was something out there, I'm just saying Sox management wouldn't agree with you.


Every team, even the Yankees, comes into the season with a certain revenue stream and certain financial expectations. They lie about it publicly, but there's no way the Red Sox could decide to spend $200M next year if they thought there were players to spend it on.

I doubt the Red Sox got everything on their wish list. I'm guessing they were more optimistic about Smoltz's health than they should have been, because $8M for half a season only makes sense for an ace. It's not like he carries value past 2009-- 42-year-old pitchers with major surgery tend to burn out in a hurry.
 
2009-03-26 01:59:40 PM  

chimp_ninja: I doubt the Red Sox got everything on their wish list. I'm guessing they were more optimistic about Smoltz's health than they should have been, because $8M for half a season only makes sense for an ace. It's not like he carries value past 2009-- 42-year-old pitchers with major surgery tend to burn out in a hurry.


The Red Sox underspent this off season. They were willing to go to a certain amount for Texiera but aside from that, they didn't do much other than resign Pedroia, Youk, and Lester. $8m is nothing to the Sox in any enconomy. Heck, last year they paid the Dodgers to take Manny and paid Schilling $8.5m to not pitch an inning.
 
2009-03-26 02:16:04 PM  

GimpyNip: The Red Sox underspent this off season. They were willing to go to a certain amount for Texiera but aside from that, they didn't do much other than resign Pedroia, Youk, and Lester. $8m is nothing to the Sox in any enconomy. Heck, last year they paid the Dodgers to take Manny and paid Schilling $8.5m to not pitch an inning.


Well, right. But you're saying that after a season where they got burned on stupid (or in Manny's case, unavoidable) deals, they cut back. To me, that supports the idea that they have some internal limits playing a hand this offseason.
 
2009-03-26 02:45:22 PM  

chimp_ninja: I can't find the details on the incentives


I'm disappointed in you.

Just go to Cot's:

$5.5M in bonuses based on days on active 25-man roster:

* $125,000 for his first day
* $ 35,000 per day, June 1 - Oct. 3
* $500,000 for Oct. 4


And according to this article, the Sox have the lowest payroll they've had since 2003. In fact, since the Sox generally try to stay under the luxury tax threshold, it could easily be suggested they have nearly $20 mil in payroll flexibility.
 
2009-03-26 03:06:03 PM  

chimp_ninja: Well, right. But you're saying that after a season where they got burned on stupid (or in Manny's case, unavoidable) deals, they cut back. To me, that supports the idea that they have some internal limits playing a hand this offseason.


I don't know if they cut back so much as they didn't like the market for the higher priced free agents. They did see signing a guy who they don't really want for 5 years just because they can as being productive. It is like when the Yankees signed Abreau just for the hell of it. I don't blame the Sox for not going gaga over this years FA market, especially since next year would be a better time to evaluate Lowrie and Ellsbury's progress and make a determination if they're going to be long term solutions. Ellsbury was abysmal for long stretches last season.
 
2009-03-26 05:18:22 PM  

GimpyNip: I don't blame the Sox for not going gaga over this years FA market, especially since next year would be a better time to evaluate Lowrie and Ellsbury's progress and make a determination if they're going to be long term solutions. Ellsbury was abysmal for long stretches last season.


Yup. If the Red Sox weren't expected to compete, I'd think both Ellsbury and Lowrie would be great choices. I'm just not sure they're the best they could do now, and I'm especially not sure that a team with the Red Sox budget shouldn't have a better Plan B in CF.

Actually: Who plays CF on Ellsbury's day off? Can Baldelli do that?

And I know catchers are hard to come by these days, but Varitek's projections are very close to his abysmal 2008 season. Dusty Brown has some promise, but he's got zero games of MLB experience. Kotteras looks to be a bad defender with a mediocre bat (decent power, iffy OBP), and after that the well is dry.
 
2009-03-26 05:41:49 PM  

chimp_ninja: Actually: Who plays CF on Ellsbury's day off? Can Baldelli do that?


Yeah, Baldelli is the current backup CF. Plus, Kotsay will be back eventually, and both Wilkerson & DL Drew have had decent amounts of CF experience.

And I don't know why so many people are down on Kottaras. He'll never be a starter, but he seems like a pretty good backup to me.
 
2009-03-26 06:02:34 PM  

DeWayne Mann: And I don't know why so many people are down on Kottaras. He'll never be a starter, but he seems like a pretty good backup to me.


By the way, this is his scouting report on soxprospects.com:

Scouting Report: Offensive-minded catcher with 20-25 home run power potential and good plate discipline. However, his patience at the plate has led to leaving his bat on his shoulder a bit too much. Takes advantage of mistake pitches. Doesn't make contact on a consistent-enough basis. Has been somewhat pull-happy historically. Behind the plate, Kottaras' glove skills have been called into question in the past, including his ability to throw out runners, his game calling ability, and his basic fundamentals. However, he's a very hard worker and takes to developmental coaching well, and as such his skills have improved during his time in the Sox system. His game calling ability has certainly improved, as the PawSox staff has grown very comfortable with Kottaras behind the dish. On the other hand, while his arm is strong, his throwing motion still lacks quickness, and he only throws about 20% of runners out. Good at blocking balls in the dirt, and gets to bunts and fly balls well. Has extended experience catching knuckleballers.


I like the 'almost too patient', 'good at blocking balls' and 'extended experience catching knuckleballers' parts, since he'll be the mirabelli. Don't care much about RTO, since anyone can steal on wake.
 
2009-03-26 06:54:07 PM  

DeWayne Mann: And I don't know why so many people are down on Kottaras. He'll never be a starter, but he seems like a pretty good backup to me.


I agree he's a good backup, and more promising than many teams have. Backup catcher is usually the worst guy on a team.

My thought was that Varitek is a 37-year-old catcher with declining skills, and there's a not-improbable chance that come June, he'll either be injured or batting below the Mendoza line. Witness the Yankees last year after (a younger) Posada asplode, and they ended up getting 297 PA of .216/.263/.313 from (the slick-fielding) Random Molina.

What's different about the Sox is the high probability of Varitek-related disaster. I'm not sure the Sox want a rookie with a questionable defensive reputation trying to figure out where the next Dice-K fastball is going to end up.
 
2009-03-26 07:03:30 PM  

chimp_ninja: I'm not sure the Sox want a rookie with a questionable defensive reputation trying to figure out where the next Dice-K fastball is going to end up.


Yeah, but on the bright side he'll have about 5 mins between pitches to figure it out.
 
2009-03-26 07:22:09 PM  

chimp_ninja: What's different about the Sox is the high probability of Varitek-related disaster. I'm not sure the Sox want a rookie with a questionable defensive reputation trying to figure out where the next Dice-K fastball is going to end up.


Worst case scenario, they pull the trigger on Bowden/Montero or Salty/RANDOMTEXASCATCHER. They'll be grabbing one of those guys eventually, they're just waiting for the price to come down.

Or hoping the Twins decide to cheap out on Mauer.
 
2009-03-26 09:06:44 PM  
If the advice that he gave Buchholz makes him able to pitch the rest of his career anywhere near how he has this spring training, Smoltz has earned his $5 million without ever setting foot on the mound.
 
2009-03-26 09:16:06 PM  

chimp_ninja: The Red Sox have a lot of money ($133M last year), but $5.5M is something that could have strengthened them at another position (C, SS, CF, middle relief in that order).


I would argue that the Red Sox are improved at all those positions while actually reducing payroll:
C - Kottaras > Cash
SS - Jed Lowrie no longer trying to hit with a broken hand
CF - Replaced Coco's limp noodle bat with Rocco Baldelli
Middle relief - Replaced Timlin and Aardsma with Ramirez and Saito
 
2009-03-26 09:53:05 PM  
I look forward to watching Smoltz enter the Hall of Fame wearing a Red Sox cap.
 
2009-03-26 11:13:24 PM  

DeWayne Mann: And I don't know why so many people are down on Kottaras. He'll never be a starter, but he seems like a pretty good backup to me.


Agreed. His minor league numbers were pretty much the same as Kelly Shoppach's.
 
2009-03-26 11:32:03 PM  
he's always been a crap pitcher, and now he's with a team everyone hates. Makes sense to me,
 
2009-03-26 11:59:24 PM  

sportsbybrookssux: he's always been a crap pitcher, and now he's with a team everyone hates. Makes sense to me,


Boy, this is one smart comment. It changed my entire worldview.
 
2009-03-27 12:06:58 AM  

DeWayne Mann: sportsbybrookssux: he's always been a crap pitcher, and now he's with a team everyone hates. Makes sense to me,

Boy, this is one smart comment. It changed my entire worldview.


how bout them pats hey? Karma is a biatch and god is giving the dirty deeds done dirt cheap stars all they can handle. Steelers wouldn't have lost to that crap Giants team I'll tell you that.

didn't think 18-0 could be weak, but they were.
 
2009-03-27 12:58:21 AM  

sportsbybrookssux: how bout them pats hey? Karma is a biatch and god is giving the dirty deeds done dirt cheap stars all they can handle. Steelers wouldn't have lost to that crap Giants team I'll tell you that.

didn't think 18-0 could be weak, but they were.


Are you even trying?
 
2009-03-27 01:08:04 AM  

DeWayne Mann: sportsbybrookssux: how bout them pats hey? Karma is a biatch and god is giving the dirty deeds done dirt cheap stars all they can handle. Steelers wouldn't have lost to that crap Giants team I'll tell you that.

didn't think 18-0 could be weak, but they were.

Are you even trying?


of course I try, I'm a Steeler fan. You though are a Pats/Sox fan which means you just sit around thinking you should win and then cry when you don't, cause sadly for you championships are decided on the field and not on WEEI and message boards.
 
2009-03-27 01:17:55 AM  

sportsbybrookssux: of course I try, I'm a Steeler fan. You though are a Pats/Sox fan which means you just sit around thinking you should win and then cry when you don't, cause sadly for you championships are decided on the field and not on WEEI and message boards.


So, in conclusion, no, not trying.
 
2009-03-27 01:26:14 AM  

DeWayne Mann: sportsbybrookssux: of course I try, I'm a Steeler fan. You though are a Pats/Sox fan which means you just sit around thinking you should win and then cry when you don't, cause sadly for you championships are decided on the field and not on WEEI and message boards.

So, in conclusion, no, not trying.


poor pats fan, denial is a start to a lonely life
 
2009-03-27 01:31:09 AM  

sportsbybrookssux: poor pats fan, denial is a start to a lonely life


Actually, I'm still trying to figure out how Smoltz is a "crap" pitcher.
 
2009-03-27 08:25:16 AM  

sportsbybrookssux: poor pats fan, denial is a start to a lonely life


And the ignore list moves to the Sports tab.
 
2009-03-27 03:27:34 PM  

chimp_ninja: sportsbybrookssux: poor pats fan, denial is a start to a lonely life

And the ignore list moves to the Sports tab.


Aw, I think he's fun. Especially the part where he gave up.
 
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