If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Guy)   Christians called "intolerant" by some stupid atheist who is going to burn in hell when he gets there   (theherald.co.uk) divider line 678
    More: Obvious  
•       •       •

14370 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2009 at 2:20 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



678 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | » | Last | Show all
 
2009-03-25 11:28:43 AM  
Deuce McStinkle: "1. One doesn't have to believe in a literal seven-day creation period to believe in original sin. That's your assumption."

No, I never said such a thing, and it's not my position. I said only that one must believe that the fall from grace occurred, and thus there was a garden, an Adam and Eve and so on. I never mentioned literal six day creation (the seventh was a day of rest) anywhere.

Deuce McStinkle: "2. I'm not sure what "genocide" you're addressing. Please be specific."

The genocide of the Canaanites. Israelites were promised land inhabited by several indigenous peoples, and the Israelites were instructed to kill every man, woman and child in most instances (except where they kept virginal girls for themselves) and to burn the buildings to the ground, and to kill all of the livestock.

Deuce McStinkle: "3. Of course, I'm a Christian. But I also voted for Obama; I don't think that creationism belongs in public schools; I support homosexual civil unions; and I think that a good majority of so-called Christian today engender people like you: those who think that a small sect of a religion represent all of it."

Would it surprise you to know that 40% of Americans overall don't accept evolution? In a nation that is 85% Christian, it's not hard to work out the difference and realize that the proportion of Christians who take a literal reading of Genesis are hardly a "small sect".

Deuce McStinkle: "4. Slice it how you wish, my friend. You seem to be convinced in your moral righteousness."

Come off it. You've brought up who you voted for, what rights you support, literally everything except the issues I raised. You answered only one of several questions, and you've spent several posts now evading the rest.

Do you believe in souls?

Do you believe in a creator God?

Did God command genocides or not?

For that matter, what's your take on God's permission to keep slaves?
 
2009-03-25 11:31:32 AM  
maddogdelta: Deuce McStinkle: 2. I'm not sure what "genocide" you're addressing. Please be specific.

And you claim to have read the bible?
I'll give you 2 examples, the Amalekites
1 Samuel 15:2-3 (New International Version)

2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

And the Mindinites
Numbers 31:7-40 (King James Version)

7And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

9And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


And? So what?

God gets to make those decisions; you don't.

I'm well aware of the history in the OT. I'm not seeing your point here. Just because these folks were killed doesn't undercut my Christianity.

Once again, however, you're missing the big point. Before the new covenant, Israel were God's chosen. God used Israel in the OT to dispense his wrath and his divine justice.

Just because you don't understand why God decided to have these people killed doesn't undercut the truth of Christianity.

See, you want it your way and your way only: you want God (or not) to conform to your vision. You want the world to be simple, easily understandable. You want to believe that human perception can grasp all truth. My Lord, friend. It can't.

So, yes, God had some people killed in the OT. I'm still not seeing your point.
 
2009-03-25 11:33:35 AM  
Zamboro:

Come off it. You've brought up who you voted for, what rights you support, literally everything except the issues I raised. You answered only one of several questions, and you've spent several posts now evading the rest.

Do you believe in souls?

Do you believe in a creator God?

Did God command genocides or not?

For that matter, what's your take on God's permission to keep slaves?


1. Of course I believe in a soul.

2. Of course I believe in a creator God.

3. You're pulling out of context again, misunderstanding the cultural background of a text.
 
2009-03-25 11:34:05 AM  
the point is there is no God that can be explained in a book....just heathen men.
 
2009-03-25 11:35:26 AM  
Deuce McStinkle: "So, yes, God had some people killed in the OT. I'm still not seeing your point."

"Killed some people"? It was a classically defined genocide. Whole populations were exterminated, down to evey last X, where X is "Canaanite", or any of the other tribes indigenous to the region when the Israelites swept through.

It's genocide. A holocaust. Your God commanded it. You worship a cosmic Hitler.
 
2009-03-25 11:36:14 AM  
Mekongcola:

So if he pops out of the tomb and sees his shadow, does that mean 6 more weeks of Lent?

/love the pic!
 
2009-03-25 11:36:20 AM  
Always an entertaining topic. Love the comic posts!

Try the site Why Does God Hate Amputees (new window) for a fun read.
 
2009-03-25 11:42:05 AM  
Zamboro: Deuce McStinkle: "So, yes, God had some people killed in the OT. I'm still not seeing your point."

"Killed some people"? It was a classically defined genocide. Whole populations were exterminated, down to evey last X, where X is "Canaanite", or any of the other tribes indigenous to the region when the Israelites swept through.

It's genocide. A holocaust. Your God commanded it. You worship a cosmic Hitler.


anyone want to got for a Godwin trifecta?
 
2009-03-25 11:43:40 AM  
Deuce McStinkle: "1. Of course I believe in a soul."

Then you're in the same camp as these people. The existence of the soul is contradicted by the findings of cognitive neurobiology. You're no better than a creationist in this regard.

Deuce McStinkle: "2. Of course I believe in a creator God."

Why? I've already posted links to research demonstrating a natural mechanism for causation of the big bang. What makes you think the universe must've been created?

Deuce McStinkle: "3. You're pulling out of context again, misunderstanding the cultural background of a text."

No, I'm not. You're throwing around "Out of context" as if it were a "Get out of facing the ugly brutality in the Bible free" card. I studied the Bible for hours every morning during the three years I attended a Christian academy, then at length on my own time in an Episcopal school. You may be able to use that bit on others, but it doesn't work on me, because I know when you're bullshiatting.

The context is that the Israelites, having been led by Moses into the promised land, found it inhabited by indigenous populations, which they were then commanded to completely exterminate right down to the livestock. When one military leader kept some of the livestock for himself, God lectured and punished him. The only instance in which any were spared was when Moses was permitted to keep a few thousand virginal girls for his men.

In context, all things considered, it's still inexcusable. You cannot justify genocide, and when you find yourself trying to do so, you need to stop and ask yourself what kind of monster your religious beliefs have made you into.
 
2009-03-25 11:45:01 AM  
mloree: Zamboro: Deuce McStinkle: "So, yes, God had some people killed in the OT. I'm still not seeing your point."

"Killed some people"? It was a classically defined genocide. Whole populations were exterminated, down to evey last X, where X is "Canaanite", or any of the other tribes indigenous to the region when the Israelites swept through.

It's genocide. A holocaust. Your God commanded it. You worship a cosmic Hitler.

anyone want to got for a Godwin trifecta?


ubetcha


i28.photobucket.com
 
2009-03-25 11:45:03 AM  
i141.photobucket.com
 
2009-03-25 11:46:16 AM  
Zamboro: Deuce McStinkle: "1. Of course I believe in a soul."

Then you're in the same camp as these people. The existence of the soul is contradicted by the findings of cognitive neurobiology. You're no better than a creationist in this regard.

Deuce McStinkle: "2. Of course I believe in a creator God."

Why? I've already posted links to research demonstrating a natural mechanism for causation of the big bang. What makes you think the universe must've been created?

Deuce McStinkle: "3. You're pulling out of context again, misunderstanding the cultural background of a text."

No, I'm not. You're throwing around "Out of context" as if it were a "Get out of facing the ugly brutality in the Bible free" card. I studied the Bible for hours every morning during the three years I attended a Christian academy, then at length on my own time in an Episcopal school. You may be able to use that bit on others, but it doesn't work on me, because I know when you're bullshiatting.

The context is that the Israelites, having been led by Moses into the promised land, found it inhabited by indigenous populations, which they were then commanded to completely exterminate right down to the livestock. When one military leader kept some of the livestock for himself, God lectured and punished him. The only instance in which any were spared was when Moses was permitted to keep a few thousand virginal girls for his men.

In context, all things considered, it's still inexcusable. You cannot justify genocide, and when you find yourself trying to do so, you need to stop and ask yourself what kind of monster your religious beliefs have made you into.


Excellent PWNage, sir.
 
2009-03-25 11:48:24 AM  
Deuce McStinkle: Just because you don't understand why God decided to have these people killed doesn't undercut the truth of Christianity.

So...if God has a good reason to commit genocide, then it's ok? Or is it OK because he's God, and so whatever he does is right?


And besides, I was actually addressing your question regarding genocide...To wit:

2. I'm not sure what "genocide" you're addressing. Please be specific.

I brought up 2 specific genocides, quoted straight from 1 Samuel and Numbers. I don't think these two books of the bible are part of some conspiracy to discredit God, but I would be happy to entertain any evidence you have to demonstrate that I am incorrect.

But allow me to ask you about your original post...remember, this one?

Wheeee! Look at me! I know nothing about religion, yet I feel the need to shoot off my mouth, paint with a broad brush, and stereotype all Christians.

Wheeeee!!! I've never even read the Bible! I wouldn't know an epistle from a psalm, yet I'm qualified to dismiss all forms of Christianity!

Wheeee!! Look at me! I've got internet access, so I have earned the right to speak on subjects about which I have absolutely no knowledge!

Wheee!! Look at me! I learned everything that I know about Christianity from an intro to philosophy course at my junior college and from those highly-regarded geniuses at the 4chan message boards!

Wheeeee!!!!


The basic premise was that atheists never read the bible, and paint all Christians with "a broad brush" to quote your phrase.

um.... don't you think your brush was a little broad? I had to point out to you where 2 genocides, authorized by God, are in the bible, which you seem to have forgotten, in spite of your vast knowledge of the bible.
 
2009-03-25 11:50:42 AM  
I agree with the Farkers who advocate just ignoring theologians from now on.

By arguing with them, you give them the impression that their faith is something that can tested or proven true/false through logical argument. Of course, it can't be done. They've lost, and hopefully this century is marked as the one where people peacefully lose the need for a security blanket and try to think rationally in all they do.
 
2009-03-25 11:52:31 AM  
Conservationist: All beliefs are intolerant of all other beliefs.

I believe you're oversimplifying things.


...douche.
 
2009-03-25 11:53:12 AM  
Deuce McStinkle:

I have been following your comments through the thread and I must say that they amuse me greatly.

I do need to ask, though, why if a Christian quotes a few verses from the bible for their agenda, it is considered "Preaching the Gospel Truth", but if a non-Christian does it, it is "Quoting out of context"?

And yes, your God is a genocidal god with either no plan whatsoever or a plan so twisted and sick that it would make even the most rabid lunatic ask "What the FARK is his problem?" Think about it: If "God" so loves all people, why did "He" allow nations like the Canaanites to rise up in the first place after the flood and then order others of his 'loved creatures' to kill their 'brothers' like that?

I think it all boils down to God being a big ol' invisible Michael Vic, myself - He creates us, pens us in separate 'cages' (nations/religions), and then on days like today, 9/11, etc., he dings the bell and pits his dogs (believers) against one another for personal amusement and/or ego-stroking.
 
2009-03-25 11:54:48 AM  
What_Would_Jimi_Do: Leviticus 18:22!

someone should tell these two about Leviticus 18:23...

media2.kxan.com
i.cdn.turner.com
 
2009-03-25 11:55:00 AM  
mloree: "Excellent PWNage, sir."

Thanks, although it's a bit like shooting fish in a barrel.
 
2009-03-25 11:57:23 AM  
thespindrifter: Hitler Bush was about as "Christ like" as Mohamed; he was being political, and his "elimination of the atheist" was a political move to stamp out the Communiststerrorists, thus eliminating the competition and consolidating his power base, not in any way as a means to truly promote "Christ". The only God Adolf Hitler Bush 43 ever worshiped was himself.

FTFY.
 
2009-03-25 12:00:29 PM  
Premeditated_Road_Rage: Deuce McStinkle:

I have been following your comments through the thread and I must say that they amuse me greatly.

I do need to ask, though, why if a Christian quotes a few verses from the bible for their agenda, it is considered "Preaching the Gospel Truth", but if a non-Christian does it, it is "Quoting out of context"?

And yes, your God is a genocidal god with either no plan whatsoever or a plan so twisted and sick that it would make even the most rabid lunatic ask "What the FARK is his problem?" Think about it: If "God" so loves all people, why did "He" allow nations like the Canaanites to rise up in the first place after the flood and then order others of his 'loved creatures' to kill their 'brothers' like that?

I think it all boils down to God being a big ol' invisible Michael Vic, myself - He creates us, pens us in separate 'cages' (nations/religions), and then on days like today, 9/11, etc., he dings the bell and pits his dogs (believers) against one another for personal amusement and/or ego-stroking.


damn. that's the best explanation of the meaning of life I've ever heard.

/newsletter?
 
2009-03-25 12:03:48 PM  
Zamboro: The existence of the soul is contradicted by the findings of cognitive neurobiology. You're no better than a creationist in this regard.

That's about the biggest leap of faith I've ever seen. Consciousness is all codified now, eh? I guess they'll be rolling them off the assembly lines any day now.
 
2009-03-25 12:04:19 PM  
theinsultabot9000: give me doughnuts: theinsultabot9000: maybe you are for it because you think its just America. she should have her freedom of choice. ok, i can see that, land of the free, sound reasoning. you have a point. but if your argument is i or anyone else should give two shiats about a group of woman whose soul common link is that they were to incompetent to avoid pregnancy and to stupid to decide that of all her options, gutting herself with a coat hanger, thus eliminating not one but two genetic failures. i just don't see the point. in my opinion that is actually a valid point on the side of pro-lifers, that there stance indirectly benefits the genetic health of humanity

What valid point?

a main talking point of pro-choice people is that many woman will still have abortions, it will just be far more dangerous, because instead of practiced and sterilized equipment it will be back alley med school rejects using coat hangers, when problems inevitably develop, the woman and the child to be both die.

currently, an abortion is relatively safe for the woman, so right now any woman having an abortion is by nature farking retarded, she is underoing a simple procedure. but if pro-lifers wanted to make the point that any woman who went to the back alleyway and got herself killed, we are talking about not only the removal of both the grossly incompetent and/or stupid, but one who has already proven herself fertile. thats darwinism, and a valid point on the side of any who wished to see abortion outlawed


Why do you hate the coat-hanger industry?
 
2009-03-25 12:04:59 PM  
Zamboro: In context, all things considered, it's still inexcusable. You cannot justify genocide, and when you find yourself trying to do so, you need to stop and ask yourself what kind of monster your religious beliefs have made you into.

Amen

;-)

maddogdelta: So...if God has a good reason to commit genocide, then it's ok? Or is it OK because he's God, and so whatever he does is right?

Yeah, I don't think this argument can ever be won, because whenever we question something that doesn't make sense, they'll just rebut with, well, of course it doesn't make sense to US. But god in his all knowing has reasons that we don't know...

farm4.static.flickr.com

OR we'll get some fabulous circular reasoning:

farm4.static.flickr.com

So, really, we should just accept that Jesus was sent to us for a very special reason...

farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2009-03-25 12:08:01 PM  
Aww, maybe I'm too late to jump into this thread, but here it goes:

We knew all our neighbors growing up with kids (the whole five of them). We were the only family on the block that did not attend a church of any kind. My mother was "spiritual" and my father was "agnostic". My sister and I didn't really care either way because we had a great childhood with loving parents.

Neighbors: Family one was devote catholic and BOTH their daughters ended up getting pregnant as teenagers. Lovely family values there. Family Two went to some church every Sunday and now has the father in prison for beating his wife to death and one son in prison for rape. Nice. Family Three was Mormom and has two gay son, two teenage daughters (twins) that are pregnant (four months apart), but the other two turned out okay. Family Four went to church every Sunday as well, but there is no more family four since he shot all the members before turning the gun on himself. Family Five is another of those abusive families, but this time it is the drugged up son who beats his mother for drug money and the father took off years ago to bang his slutty secretary. The daughter is a stripper.

Yup, religion is SUCH a positive influence on our society. Just think, their families would not be so colorful without keeping their heads constantly up their own asses.
 
2009-03-25 12:09:40 PM  
trappedspirit: "That's about the biggest leap of faith I've ever seen."

No, it isn't.

trappedspirit: "Consciousness is all codified now, eh? I guess they'll be rolling them off the assembly lines any day now."

We don't fully understand life. We can't roll new lifeforms off an assembly line. Is it therefore too presumptuous, based upon what we do know, to say that it evolved?

Please read the link I provided. No, we don't understand everything about the brain, but we do know enough to say that it produces consciousness as an emergent product of the interplay between its various specialized regions. That's what it does. That's it's function, as explained in the article. Your consciousness can no more persist apart from your brain that a program can execute outside of a processor, or be stored outside of a hard drive/CD/other storage medium.
 
2009-03-25 12:10:42 PM  
jekxrb: Yeah, I don't think this argument can ever be won, because whenever we question something that doesn't make sense, they'll just rebut with, well, of course it doesn't make sense to US. But god in his all knowing has reasons that we don't know...

farm4.static.flickr.com


Tracie is another favorite of mine.

Since you debunked my "separated at birth" theory, how 'bout you're the daughter I would have had if I spent more time in Canada as a youth...
// I'll even beat up jerk ex boyfriends that bug you, if you want!
 
2009-03-25 12:13:27 PM  
maddogdelta: "// I'll even beat up jerk ex boyfriends that bug you, if you want!"

The minute you said this I started reading her name as jerkxb and it blew my mind a little. :p
 
2009-03-25 12:15:30 PM  
a2.vox.com
 
2009-03-25 12:18:06 PM  
The christian religeon is not supposed to be tolerant. In fact, it is based on intolerance, and much of this intolerance is designed to spread the word of their God.

Before I get hit with it..
"Thou shalt not judge, let ye be judged yourself.." is not a statement regarding being non-judgemental, it was regarding hypocracy, stating essentially that if you're cheating on your wife, you'd better not say how wrong it is of your neighbor to cheat on theirs.

Can anyone say, after reading the bible, that the bible is all about being non-judgemental? It's full of judgements, the entire religeon is based on the fact that society itself doesn't embrace it, and it's important to find a path that is righteous, regardless of the personal cost. How would you know the right path unless you made judgements on the options availible to you?

The apple in the garden of Eden, per the story, is the source of our ability to determine good from Evil. As the story goes, it's revealed that God didn't want that to happen, but he'll make the best of it. That ability IS the ability to determine a righteous, versus non-righteous path... the ability and REQUIREMENT to judge the actions of those around us and make decisions accordingly.

I wish I was a bit more religeous personally, but I'm not.. However, I find the whole thing fascinating. The bible functions as an excellent guide on how a society can surive and thrive together in a productive environment. It's a shame that no one seems to truly follow it's teachings anymore.

Remember, the path to heaven is (per the story) a narrow road, and not to be immediately found. Also, that treating others as we'd want to be treated is what all of the "laws" of the bible are based on.

Would you want to be told you're going to rot in hell by someone you don't agree with? Would you rather gently be told that there's another option out there.
 
2009-03-25 12:27:36 PM  
twoowlz: 'What the Bleep do We Know"


That film was produced by members of the Ramtha cult (new window) based in the Pacific Northwest, which believes that its leader is in telepathic contact with an ancient Atlantean warrior prince named Ramtha. The interviews were held under false pretenses and many of the physicists who appear in the film have since condemned it as they weren't told about the new age angle the film would have.

It's pseudoscience (new window), and I hope you don't take it seriously.
 
2009-03-25 12:27:51 PM  
Zamboro: maddogdelta: "// I'll even beat up jerk ex boyfriends that bug you, if you want!"

The minute you said this I started reading her name as jerkxb and it blew my mind a little. :p


*sigh*

While I do have several of those, that was NOT in any way the origin of my handle. :P
 
2009-03-25 12:29:12 PM  
jaylectricity: Gasoline for the hellfire.

Fark TAA in the ear. He's a douche of colossal proportions.

/6.9 atheist
 
2009-03-25 12:29:50 PM  
almafuerte: Let evolution decide. Stop being considerate to each other. That kills evolution.

img1.fark.net

Evolution selects at all levels, including those both larger and smaller that the individual organism.
 
2009-03-25 12:29:57 PM  
There has never been so self-serving a logically fallacy, to the religious, as the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. It's amazing, just watch it in action:

P1: "Man that guy is a real homophobic, racist, *sshole. Always using his Christian faith as an excuse for his bad behaviour."
P2: "Oh, he doesn't count. He's not a 'true Christian'."
-------
P1: "Wow, look at that guy over there spreading love and charity."
P2: "Since he is doing good works that mean he must be, by definition, a 'true Christian'."

You too can selectively own, and disown, people as members of your religious group on a whim by simply prefixing the word 'true' in front of the adjective form of your religion: Has someone who believes the same things as you recently become 'inconvenient' to your belief that only good people are members of your religion? Just say they're not a 'true' member of your faith. Cognitive dissonance resolved!

/... or is it?
 
2009-03-25 12:32:28 PM  
Premeditated_Road_Rage: Deuce McStinkle:

I have been following your comments through the thread and I must say that they amuse me greatly.

I do need to ask, though, why if a Christian quotes a few verses from the bible for their agenda, it is considered "Preaching the Gospel Truth", but if a non-Christian does it, it is "Quoting out of context"?

And yes, your God is a genocidal god with either no plan whatsoever or a plan so twisted and sick that it would make even the most rabid lunatic ask "What the FARK is his problem?" Think about it: If "God" so loves all people, why did "He" allow nations like the Canaanites to rise up in the first place after the flood and then order others of his 'loved creatures' to kill their 'brothers' like that?

I think it all boils down to God being a big ol' invisible Michael Vic, myself - He creates us, pens us in separate 'cages' (nations/religions), and then on days like today, 9/11, etc., he dings the bell and pits his dogs (believers) against one another for personal amusement and/or ego-stroking.


THIS. Except in my religion we call him Ron Mexico.
 
2009-03-25 12:35:26 PM  
bushbot111: That "Help we're being oppressed" graph really makes no sense. It implies that a statistical majority cannot be oppressed, which is simply not true. I'd wager fewer than 1/3 of farkers actually understand that concept. That being said, Christians are not being oppressed.

That always bugged me too. By that logic, blacks were never oppressed in South Africa.
 
2009-03-25 12:35:37 PM  
Dead-Guy

The bible functions as an excellent guide on how a society can surive and thrive together in a productive environment. It's a shame that no one seems to truly follow it's teachings anymore.

I think they still stone people for sexual "immorality" in some places in the world...

Also, that treating others as we'd want to be treated is what all of the "laws" of the bible are based on.

How does "rapists and their victims must be married, and the victim's father paid in silver, if the victim was a virgin prior to the rape" reflect the Golden Rule?
 
2009-03-25 12:36:16 PM  
Premeditated_Road_Rage: I do need to ask, though, why if a Christian quotes a few verses from the bible for their agenda, it is considered "Preaching the Gospel Truth", but if a non-Christian does it, it is "Quoting out of context"?

That's a brilliant point. Whenever a Christian quotes something from the bible, I'm now going to say it's out of context. :D

That should get me a few good reactions.
 
2009-03-25 12:36:46 PM  
Zamboro: twoowlz: 'What the Bleep do We Know"


That film was produced by members of the Ramtha cult (new window) based in the Pacific Northwest, which believes that its leader is in telepathic contact with an ancient Atlantean warrior prince named Ramtha. The interviews were held under false pretenses and many of the physicists who appear in the film have since condemned it as they weren't told about the new age angle the film would have.

It's pseudoscience (new window), and I hope you don't take it seriously.


I didn't know about the scientists condemning the film. Yeah, I thought the Ramtha thing was weird, but mostly because that woman is scary looking...but fun to consider none the less...and a lot more believable and kind spirited than the bible in my opinion. I believe the whole Edgar Cayce thing so the idea of Ramtha is not so far fetched in my little world.
 
2009-03-25 12:39:13 PM  
The Name: EL_FABREZ: What_Would_Jimi_Do: Leviticus 18:22!


Leviticus is some crazy shiat. Eat shellfish? Stoning. Cut your hair? Stoning. Wife cheats on you? Stoning. Flat nose? No heaven for you. Crippled? Ditto. Wear two different types of fabric? BZZZT!

You have to laugh at anybody who says they take the bible literally.

It's precisely because of books like Leviticus that I laugh at people who try to pwn Christians by quoting the Old Testament. Since it's fairly early in this thread still, I'll give the atheists to come a little tip:

Christians are well aware of the "intolerance" (as we moderns would call it) and heavy-handedness of the Old Testament. This barbarity contrasted with the pacifism of Jesus Christ is precisely one of the differences distinguishing the Old Testament from the New Testament. I'd go into the theology and apologetics a bit, but I've smoked too much wacky tobacky.



But isn't Leviticus one of the primary arguments against gay marriage? You can quote Leviticus when it suits you, but disregard it when it says something you don't agree with. Thats just picking and choosing.

And if you pick and choose which moral guidelines to follow, then why do you need the bible?

Not you specifically, just generally speaking.
 
2009-03-25 12:42:16 PM  
BergZ: Just say they're not a 'true' member of your faith. Cognitive dissonance resolved!

That's what religion is all about. Vague, ever changing answers and sidestepping the issues so that cognitive dissonance and illogic can be 'avoided'.

Here's an example of a good Christian:

farm4.static.flickr.com


maddogdelta: Since you debunked my "separated at birth" theory, how 'bout you're the daughter I would have had if I spent more time in Canada as a youth...

Are you asking me to call you Daddy? hmmmm.... ;-)
 
2009-03-25 12:43:23 PM  
Zamboro: The context is that the Israelites, having been led by Moses into the promised land, found it inhabited by indigenous populations, which they were then commanded to completely exterminate right down to the livestock.

Actually, the archeology suggests that's an even bigger myth than the claim that Rome was founded by twin sons of the God of War who were nursed by a wolf.

So, the context appears to be: this is the story the locals made up to make themselves sound impressive.

hailin: Just think, their families would not be so colorful without keeping their heads constantly up their own asses.

The scary part is the historical odds imply that they'd be even more colorful without religion to instill a howsoever ignored moral framework. (Yes, other bases for frameworks are possible; they just don't has as well-proven a record yet.)
 
2009-03-25 12:51:36 PM  
jekxrb: Anti-God is Anti-American



"Take that, you anti-American traitor!"

"Noooo, foiled again!"

i224.photobucket.com
 
2009-03-25 12:52:15 PM  
Zamboro: Deuce McStinkle: "So, yes, God had some people killed in the OT. I'm still not seeing your point."

"Killed some people"? It was a classically defined genocide. Whole populations were exterminated, down to evey last X, where X is "Canaanite", or any of the other tribes indigenous to the region when the Israelites swept through.

It's genocide. A holocaust. Your God commanded it. You worship a cosmic Hitler.


they were wicked idolators. God judged the Canaanites, and wiped them out. not the first time. remember the flood?

won't be the last time either.
 
2009-03-25 12:54:01 PM  
abb3w: "Actually, the archeology suggests that's an even bigger myth than the claim that Rome was founded by twin sons of the God of War who were nursed by a wolf.

So, the context appears to be: this is the story the locals made up to make themselves sound impressive."


I'm aware. There aren't human remains where you'd expect them nor in the quantities described, no ruins of kingdoms where the Torah claims they once stood, stuff like that.

The relevant issue here is not whether it happened, but why Christians who do believe it happened are willing to rationalize genocide. It's the thought that counts, as it were.

twoowlz: "I didn't know about the scientists condemning the film. Yeah, I thought the Ramtha thing was weird, but mostly because that woman is scary looking...but fun to consider none the less...and a lot more believable and kind spirited than the bible in my opinion. I believe the whole Edgar Cayce thing so the idea of Ramtha is not so far fetched in my little world."

It is fun to consider. And 'kind spirited'. But then, wishful thinking is very seductive, and rarely leads us to correct conclusions. Let us believe something because the evidence supports it, not because it's appealing and desirable. Down that path lies self-deception.

The reason we see so much Deepak Chopra style quantum quackery nowadays is because it's in its relative infancy as a science, and it's still poorly understood. Back when electricity had only just been harnessed and put to good use, there was a great deal of similar quackery going on:

i63.photobucket.com

This is exactly what it looks like. Electricity was often portrayed as some sort of mystical 'vital force', and those lacking energy were told that electric belts, caps, even electrified floors in all homes would restore their vital energies. Much like modern quantum quacks, they never explained the actual mechanism whereby electricity was supposed to accomplish such a thing, they were just throwing around scientific sounding words in order to get dubious ideas past the already limited critical thinking faculties of the public. A sort of 'science cloak' to wrap supernatural concepts in so as to slip them under our radars.

What the Bleep do we Know makes essentially the same claim as the bestselling book advocated by Oprah Winfrey, "The Secret"; that asking 'the universe' for things will result in actually receiving those things, that focusing on things you want somehow 'attracts' them to you. The mechanism is never explained, of course.
 
2009-03-25 12:54:51 PM  
Ranger Joe: I reject your mythology and substitute a magical diety of my own.

Thor and Odin for the motherfarking win!
 
2009-03-25 12:56:54 PM  
colon_pow: "they were wicked idolators. God judged the Canaanites, and wiped them out. not the first time. remember the flood?"

We might consider the people of Afghanistan or North Korea to be wicked. Does that authorize us to exterminate them?

colon_pow: "Won't be the last time either."

You're right, it won't be the last time. Not so long as there are people out there who believe that there are circumstances in which it's okay to exterminate whole populations. I'm lookin' at you, buddy.
 
2009-03-25 01:02:50 PM  
Zamboro, the mechanism will be explained---you'll see. Or maybe you won't see since you know everything already.
 
2009-03-25 01:05:57 PM  
Zamboro: colon_pow: "they were wicked idolators. God judged the Canaanites, and wiped them out. not the first time. remember the flood?"

We might consider the people of Afghanistan or North Korea to be wicked. Does that authorize us to exterminate them?


I dunno, colon_pow certainly scared me. The only reason any of us will ever do the right thing is because if we don't, we won't get into heaven, which is the only real goal of all existence. The Old Testament God guided the notion of human morality through fear and death, but the "New God" says that all we have to do is accept Jesus, and we'll have eternal life.
If we don't, we will die, and that's scary.
 
2009-03-25 01:11:01 PM  
jekxrb: Are you asking me to call you Daddy? hmmmm.... ;-)

Well...ummm...errr **blushes...stares at shoes***

colon_pow: they were wicked idolators. God judged the Canaanites, and wiped them out. not the first time. remember the flood?

won't be the last time either.


I guess might makes right, then.
 
Displayed 50 of 678 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report