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(Chicago Sun-Times)   Now that parking meter rates have quintupled in Chicago drivers are doing the one thing that the revenue hungry Mayor never planned for: staying home. That sound you hear is local business owners sharpening their pitchforks   (suntimes.com) divider line 173
    More: Obvious  
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13977 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Mar 2009 at 1:07 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-03-22 03:01:01 PM  
stryker4526: So... being run by a private company, the meters aren't privatized now?

By definition, a monopoly isn't competitive. Economic competition is the heart of privatization of formerly government services and the key to the success of the entire concept. Chicago removed the possiblity of competition completely, and thus - didn't really gain anything at all. Is it 'private'? no, not really. Monopolies are run by folks who keep out the rabble like you and me. All of which you understand of course. After all, you aren't stupid.
 
2009-03-22 03:01:11 PM  
KIA: Yeah, that's like sending the officers out to write more tickets. Once the citizens wise up and start scrupulously obeying the laws, then what?

Change the laws to make that impossible.

Breathing again eh? That's a $50 fine.
 
2009-03-22 03:01:14 PM  
Is the private company responsible for meter maintenance? A little glue injected into a few thousand meters would do wonders.
 
2009-03-22 03:01:34 PM  
Arny Schwazenegger has the best idea, quadruple registration fees for cars. This is after his predecessor Gray Davis was recalled for doubling them. Park it, drive it, leave it in the garage all year you're still going to pay.

But wait. Don't parking tickets reap six, seven, even eight times more than what meters bring in? If people start refusing to park at meters, how can they get ticketed? And how can the city hope to rake in that revenue?

Wow, somebody must be new in town and not familiar with Chicago law enforcement methodology. The meter maids can just walk down a block and slap tickets on any car they want. They'll always make their quotas. Can you say GOOGOO (new window)?
 
2009-03-22 03:01:44 PM  
At noon in Wicker Park, where Milwaukee Avenue is usually packed with parked cars, there were open meters waiting.

And at 2 p.m. around the Sheraton Hotel on Columbus Drive, a place where normally you can't crowbar your car into a space, there were at least three or four parking spaces.


Sounds great. How can I sign up my city?
 
2009-03-22 03:01:52 PM  
ty stick: Daley sold the Chicago Skyway for something like 3 billion dollars and the company that bought it pretty much guaranteed they would up the toll to 8.00 to use the bridge. Within 6 months of this sale, he was already complaining that the city needed more money.

To stay at a hotel in Chicago, its runs about 50.00 per day to park your car.(no in or out privelages). To go to a restaurant in the city it costs about 25.00 to valet park while you eat. Red light cameras are on every street corner to catch people going through on yellow. That costs 100.00 and you will get one or ten of these eventually. The gun laws in Chicago keep its citizenry from protecting themselves, yet the city has one of the highest murder rates in the country(I think the murderers don't pay attention to the gun laws).

Try attending sporting events. I make decent money but I still wont pay 350.00 for a ticket to a Bear game, or 120.00 to see the Blackhawks. Then pay 8.00 per beer and 30.00 to park. Oh and while you are at the game, crews of theives steal all the SUV spare tires.

Chicago has become a wonderful horrible abomination of what a city should be. Its now there primarily to seperate people from their cash and send them packing.

Still it has a great skyline.


It's a nice place to visit for shopping and restaurants, long as you park somewhere and take the L everywhere. Wouldn't want to live there, though.
 
2009-03-22 03:02:44 PM  
jjorsett: Is the private company responsible for meter maintenance? A little glue injected into a few thousand meters would do wonders.

how about we just don't park in the city for the next 75 years?
 
2009-03-22 03:05:20 PM  
Weaver95: stryker4526: So... being run by a private company, the meters aren't privatized now?

By definition, a monopoly isn't competitive. Economic competition is the heart of privatization of formerly government services and the key to the success of the entire concept. Chicago removed the possiblity of competition completely, and thus - didn't really gain anything at all. Is it 'private'? no, not really. Monopolies are run by folks who keep out the rabble like you and me. All of which you understand of course. After all, you aren't stupid.


I'll concede to your point. But, their whole point wasn't to gain anything, it was to make money now and damn the consequences. I still say that parking enforcement is one of the things that should remain in the hands of the local governments, though. It's a stupid thing to privatize, just like utilities would be a stupid thing to deregulate.
 
2009-03-22 03:06:05 PM  
jjorsett: Is the private company responsible for meter maintenance?

Yep they are.

Also the deal the city made has some outs if push comes to shove.
 
2009-03-22 03:07:20 PM  
OscarTamerz: Arny Schwarzenegger has the best idea, quadruple registration fees for cars. This is after his predecessor Gray Davis was recalled for doubling them.

It's not his idea, it's sheer hypocrisy. Arnie's people bashed Davis nonstop during the recall about the registration fee. It was the second charge against Davis -- the first was his mishandling of the energy crisis which turned out to be Enron's illegal scheme.

Arnie gets into office and he repeals the fee, costing $40 billion total and causing the state to stupidly run a budget deficit even during a good economy. The state could have used that money right now.
 
2009-03-22 03:08:27 PM  
stryker4526:
Also, this isn't a "government-mandated monopoly," it's just a 75-year contract (which is still ridiculous, don't get me wrong). The government didn't make any laws saying that this particular company HAS to accept the contract, or that no one else can manage the meters if this company were to become defunct, it's not really a gov't-imposed monopoly.


I'm not sure you understand what a monopoly is. Time-limits have nothing to do with it. An exclusive lease of an entire market is a government-granted monopoly. In case you weren't aware, patents and copyrights are also government-granted monopolies, and are time-limited.
 
2009-03-22 03:10:10 PM  
jjorsett: Is the private company responsible for meter maintenance? A little glue injected into a few thousand meters would do wonders.
Acid, better idea
 
2009-03-22 03:10:57 PM  
Weaver95:
Giving an exclusive 75 year contract to ONE business organization and not allowing competition isn't 'privatizing' anything. it's a government mandated monopoly and old skool patronage politics of the worst possible sort. To my mind it's also asking for corruption and abuse, as well as extremely damaging to local business interests but that's a discussion for another time.


I agree, hence the rolling of my eyes and the quotation marks in a previous post of mine. This is a government created monopoly and a government created problem, not an issue of privatization. I dont really want to solve any problems, just point out the shortfalls in other peoples' logic. (because, well, this is fark)
 
2009-03-22 03:14:40 PM  
stryker4526: I'll concede to your point. But, their whole point wasn't to gain anything, it was to make money now and damn the consequences. I still say that parking enforcement is one of the things that should remain in the hands of the local governments, though. It's a stupid thing to privatize, just like utilities would be a stupid thing to deregulate.

Monopolies are great - IF you happen to be the guy running the monopoly. It sucks brass donkey balls for everyone else though. Chicago essentially set up (and enforces) a state mandated economic monopoly on parking in the city. There's all sorts of ways to abuse that set up - kickbacks to the company to lower parking prices in your zone, extending the time limits on the meters, jacking up prices on your competition...that's just a few that come to mind off the top of my head. And since the city nominally 'privatized' the whole thing, they can delay and obfuscate public inquiry into how the system is run.

privatization isn't necessarily a bad thing, assuming it's done properly. But when corrupt political leaders sabotage the process of course it's going to end badly for the consumer.
 
2009-03-22 03:15:18 PM  
otterly_delicious: You can always get your walkability score. (new window)

I live out in the country and mine came up to 2 out so 100.


Wow, I got a perfect 0, and I consider myself close to town.
 
2009-03-22 03:15:37 PM  
pierceive: stryker4526:
Also, this isn't a "government-mandated monopoly," it's just a 75-year contract (which is still ridiculous, don't get me wrong). The government didn't make any laws saying that this particular company HAS to accept the contract, or that no one else can manage the meters if this company were to become defunct, it's not really a gov't-imposed monopoly.

I'm not sure you understand what a monopoly is. Time-limits have nothing to do with it. An exclusive lease of an entire market is a government-granted monopoly. In case you weren't aware, patents and copyrights are also government-granted monopolies, and are time-limited.


My point was it wasn't MANDATED. Granted != mandated. Otherwise I agree.
 
2009-03-22 03:18:23 PM  
Weaver95: Government mandated monopolies aren't 'private'. But you knew that already.

Wha wha WHAT??? This is privatization. This is the government turning over what used to be a government function over to a private company, which is the definition of privatization.

So when a glaring example of how privatization is a worse way to go arises, the response is to deny that it's actually privatization?

Reminds me of "Bbbbut the Soviet Union and China weren't doing REAL communism..."
 
2009-03-22 03:20:58 PM  
stiletto_the_wise: Wha wha WHAT??? This is privatization. This is the government turning over what used to be a government function over to a private company, which is the definition of privatization.

No, it's the definition of monopoly.

So when a glaring example of how privatization is a worse way to go arises, the response is to deny that it's actually privatization?

Reminds me of "Bbbbut the Soviet Union and China weren't doing REAL communism..."


privatization specifically mentions the idea that monopolies are a BAD thing. But you knew that.
 
2009-03-22 03:27:16 PM  
I don't take the bus, because I had plenty of that back when I was a kid. The big yellow cheesewagon is what has made me forever hate public transportation. I'd rather pay twice as much (or more) in rent and live within walking distance. Public transport is a breeding ground for all kinds of gross germs. If they made it open-air, maybe that'd be better. But they're stuffy, humid, and without fail incredibly gross. no thanks, I'd rather walk.
 
2009-03-22 03:30:25 PM  
Great Janitor

It depends on where you live.

Absolutely. When you choose where to live, you must also consider how you expect to move around. If it's the private car, then that is a choice you have made just as surely as picking out a house.

In Chicago, the impression that I got was that the common man was encouraged to ride mass transit while the roads were intended for buses and the private vehicles of the rich (how else do you explain $20 parking down town?).

Sounds like supply and demand more than rich-vs-poor.

Where I live, there is no mass transit, unless you're taking the school bus.

bummer.

You can bike, and right now it might feel like a good idea, but come July and August, that plan is going to suck, not to mention the once a year or so when it freezes here.

Biking in the heat is OK...it's stopping that's the killer.

Plus, how do you put a weeks worth of groceries onto a bike?

A bike trailer can haul 100lbs easily, though the internal volume can be a tad small. Of all the bicycling questions, the "how do I bring xxx" is easier handled than people realize. Those trailers *work*. Not to mention cars think you have a kid in the trailer and give you tons of room.

My dad and step mom put a bid onto a house that sits on 10 acres of land in Colorado in the middle of no where. 20 miles to the nearest town. There is no way they could do without a car.

If you recognize that going in you're ahead of the game.

My parents live in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada - same thing. They are totally dependent on their car(s) to get them anywhere at all. They wish they had alternatives, like a decent train system, but no such option exists.

/a Sierra foothills train would be cool, but the time for one has long passed. :(
 
2009-03-22 03:34:52 PM  
CleverGuy81: without fail incredibly gross

That's not my general experience here in Chicago, sure every so often it can happen, but in general, no.
 
2009-03-22 03:37:06 PM  
Glasgowsfinest: 7of7: If only there were some method of transportation which didn't require drivers to park.

Or even to drive. What a concept!


No! You're a madman!
 
2009-03-22 03:37:57 PM  
 
2009-03-22 03:49:02 PM  
corsec67: otterly_delicious: You can always get your walkability score. (new window)

I live out in the country and mine came up to 2 out so 100.

Wow, I got a perfect 0, and I consider myself close to town.


My walkability score chose Talbots for the Clothing & Music category. I claim shenanigans.
 
2009-03-22 03:53:23 PM  
D-D-D-Dave: corsec67: otterly_delicious: You can always get your walkability score. (new window)

I live out in the country and mine came up to 2 out so 100.

Wow, I got a perfect 0, and I consider myself close to town.

My walkability score chose Talbots for the Clothing & Music category. I claim shenanigans.


And mine helpfully directed me to my nearby grocery store, 7-11.

I also checked my parents' place, to which it suggested I walk to the nearby restaurant "Wolfie's Sports Bar". It's a quick jaunt down a divided 4-lane highway with no sidewalks.

And since when is something ~3 miles away "walkable"? That's an hour each way, easy.

Good idea, bad execution.
 
2009-03-22 03:54:19 PM  
Weaver95:
By definition, a monopoly isn't competitive. Economic competition is the heart of privatization of formerly government services and the key to the success of the entire concept.



Well considering the meters are on public sidewalks (built and maintained by the city of Chicago), monitoring parking spaces on public streets (also built and maintained by the city of Chicago), who should be in control of the parking on those streets and the metering of the parking on those streets?

The city of Chicago.

This cannot right be called a "monopoly" because it is and never has been a private company, but a public entity, and giving control of this public function (parking) to a private corporation for what equals an entire human lifetime has made it a monopoly. Privatization, the holy grail of capitalism evangelicals everywhere, doesn't always work, and in this case has made things worse.
 
2009-03-22 03:56:02 PM  
A monopoly can be private or public.

But when are are talking about the foundations of capitalism, the idea behind making something private is to secure several different options to encourage a real market.

If the monopoly is private, they will maximize efficiency to maximize profits. If the monopoly is public, they usually maximize bureauracy (their form or power) since there are no real profits to be split.

Either way, you are going to get farked.

The fact it is private doesn't make it free market.
 
2009-03-22 04:14:05 PM  
You tax something you get less of it.
What a surprise.

You subsidize something you get more of it.
 
2009-03-22 04:21:26 PM  
I have painful memories of paying $20 for a cramped lot by the Riviera, Metro or Aragon ballrooms. Wrigleyville too. Then I moved to Los Angeles county (with double the population) and was actually shocked to see parking rates drop dramatically.
 
2009-03-22 04:24:27 PM  
tenpoundsofcheese: You tax something you get less of it.
What a surprise.

You subsidize something you get more of it.


Another moran who DNRTFA...
 
2009-03-22 04:27:05 PM  
Grandmas Candy Dish: I have painful memories of paying $20 for a cramped lot by the Riviera, Metro or Aragon ballrooms. Wrigleyville too. Then I moved to Los Angeles county (with double the population) and was actually shocked to see parking rates drop dramatically.

The population density is also 50% higher in Chicago than LA. LA may have more people (not double), but it sprawls out like crazy.
 
2009-03-22 04:30:26 PM  
I am so glad that I live in a small city where the bus system rocks (clean buses, very nice drivers), bicycling is encouraged (there are bike lanes on all major roads, and even some minor ones), and most of the parking in the shopping district is reasonably priced (or free, if you go at the right day/time).

/Rock on, Fort Collins.
 
2009-03-22 04:31:20 PM  
I think that people are realizing at last that we do need our public transportation back.

/loves me some trains...
 
2009-03-22 04:43:52 PM  
If you have to pay a ticket in chicago, save the receipt. I was on the boot list back in 1997, so I went and paid off my tickets. In 2003, I received a new boot notice with all the same tickets. I requested a hearing to review the mistake, but without a receipt I was forced to pay again. I pointed out to the judge that I hadn't been on the boot list for 6 years, but she wouldn't do anything about it.
 
2009-03-22 04:53:53 PM  
Frank N Stein: Last weekend, it took me 20 minutes to find a parking spot on the North Side :(

Last weekend it took me much longer than that. I was a very unhappy person.
 
2009-03-22 04:56:22 PM  
Stupid gubmint, making everything more expensive with all it's socialist policies....

But by handing over municipal parking meters to a private company, the city has given its citizens a colossal case of sticker shock.Oh.

I'm by no means suggesting that everything would be greatly improved by governmental control, but this kinda shoots a great big hole in the libertarian/randian ideal that privitization of everything would benefit society. Is there any real benefit to this other than allowing someone to line thier pockets?
 
2009-03-22 04:58:38 PM  
KIA: Yeah, that's like sending the officers out to write more tickets. Once the citizens wise up and start scrupulously obeying the laws, then what?

Oh, come on, thats an easy one: make more things illegal and just do the bare minimum amount of 'public notification' to avoid having all those tickets overturned on appeal. Ignorance of the law is no defense after all.
 
2009-03-22 05:05:47 PM  
" sunken wrote:
I understand that banks are going introducing a new product---- the parking loan."


-Haha
 
2009-03-22 05:15:23 PM  
stryker4526:

Wait, you mean you're a moron who DNRTFA and comes in here to decry the EVIL GOVERNMENT AND EVIL EVIL TAXES when, in reality, this is the result of privatization?
Naw. That can't be right.


No, I'm the guy who understands that this:

"In exchange for a 75-year lease, the city got $1.2 billion to help plug its budget holes."

amounts to a tax increase. Just as printing more money, thereby making money worth less, amounts to a tax increase. But please, do go on admiring tax increases if you like.
 
2009-03-22 05:16:56 PM  
jenlen: Wow.

No wonder so many northerners keep flying down here and infesting the South. If only they would not bring their nutty ideas with them...


Ask any California Native how that worked out. And I'm not talking about teh gay neither. Berkeley is filled with uptight east coast morons who went west to be a hippie.
 
2009-03-22 05:24:15 PM  
Crosshair: Glasgowsfinest: My bike fits both those criteria.

My post was a subtle bash against wasteful mass transit. I use my bike too in the summer.


Meh. Ride no matter what the weather is if you're serious about starving saudi children to death one unused gallon at a time
 
2009-03-22 06:00:55 PM  
cmb53208: Could this be the start of something here, the people of Chicago finally telling the Daley family to go fark itself?

Crappy winters, corrupt cops, and a monarchy in City Hall. Why would anyone want to stay in Chicago?


What "reasons to stay in Chicago" might look like. (clicky-pop) The cultural diversity. The endless supply of things to do. The restaurants. It's awesome.

Yeah, the winters still suck. And don't get me started on the traffic.
 
2009-03-22 06:24:51 PM  
Needlessly Complicated: cmb53208: Could this be the start of something here, the people of Chicago finally telling the Daley family to go fark itself?

Crappy winters, corrupt cops, and a monarchy in City Hall. Why would anyone want to stay in Chicago?

What "reasons to stay in Chicago" might look like. (clicky-pop) The cultural diversity. The endless supply of things to do. The restaurants. It's awesome.

Yeah, the winters still suck. And don't get me started on the traffic.


Sorry, King Richard and his merry band of parasites negates all that. What good are all those events if you have to throw money at City Hall day in and day out?

If Chicago wasn't run by parasitic scum, then yeah it'd be a great place to live. But until then forget it.
 
2009-03-22 06:28:39 PM  
Having read about how absurdly high their parking meters are I sure as hell won't ever be going to Chicago. Not that it is particularly likely that I would ever visit there anyway. Too damn cold and just another damn big ugly dirty crime ridden city. I won't spend my dollars in any place that doesnt have ample free parking. Cities that try to rob me blind before I ever get in a store just dont deserve my contribution to their tax base.
Why they hell should anybody pay to park if they are going to be shopping? Or for that matter, even if they are not. There is more than enough open space in this country for parking to be free. If the stupid dirty enviro hippy douche types would let cities spread out a bit so everbody wasnt so crowded together our cities would be livable and people wouldnt be forced into the exurbs.
 
2009-03-22 06:49:43 PM  
Ima4nic8or: If the stupid dirty enviro hippy douche types would let cities spread out a bit so everbody wasnt so crowded together our cities would be livable and people wouldnt be forced into the exurbs.

0/10

Call me an optimist, but I refuse to believe anyone is really this stupid.
 
2009-03-22 06:52:25 PM  
stryker4526: I'll concede to your point. But, their whole point wasn't to gain anything, it was to make money now and damn the consequences. I still say that parking enforcement is one of the things that should remain in the hands of the local governments, though. It's a stupid thing to privatize, just like utilities would be a stupid thing to deregulate.


Rudy Rucker has a name for these folks, "The GIMMIES" (Give me your money, give me your time, and give me your freedoms). Greedy little government pigs that just scream "GIMMIE, GIMMIE, GIMMIE!" They only take and never return anything of value.
 
2009-03-22 06:59:30 PM  
Since I haven't read all the posts, has anyone dug up this? (new window)

It's Chicago's plan to draw tax on any car rental in the 6 collar counties. So, you rent a car outside the city and still have to pay city tax on it?
 
2009-03-22 07:01:58 PM  
I live in Chicago, and I walk to work or take a short subway ride, so I'm getting a kick...
 
2009-03-22 07:23:04 PM  
SpinStopper: Time to dust this one off ;)

Liberals truly have no clue how the real world and free markets work. It is amazing.
 
2009-03-22 07:24:26 PM  
Weaver95: next up - businesses migrating out of the city in search of a less hostile location to their interests.

See California.
 
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