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(Chicago Sun-Times)   Now that parking meter rates have quintupled in Chicago drivers are doing the one thing that the revenue hungry Mayor never planned for: staying home. That sound you hear is local business owners sharpening their pitchforks   (suntimes.com) divider line 173
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13976 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Mar 2009 at 1:07 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



173 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2009-03-22 10:28:10 AM  
Maybe, just maybe, people are starting to wake up..........
 
2009-03-22 10:37:00 AM  
Time to dust this one off ;)

i44.tinypic.com
 
2009-03-22 10:47:28 AM  
If only there were some method of transportation which didn't require drivers to park.
 
2009-03-22 10:52:42 AM  
7of7: If only there were some method of transportation which didn't require drivers to park.

Or even to drive. What a concept!
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2009-03-22 11:20:58 AM  
In exchange for a 75-year lease, the city got $1.2 billion to help plug its budget holes.

Modern government policy at the federal, state, and local level: do whatever it takes to get cash now and who cares about the long term consequences?
 
KIA
2009-03-22 11:27:19 AM  
Yeah, that's like sending the officers out to write more tickets. Once the citizens wise up and start scrupulously obeying the laws, then what?
 
2009-03-22 11:33:30 AM  
Force them to show up in person to register their cars monthly.
 
2009-03-22 11:40:11 AM  
Glasgowsfinest: Or even to drive. What a concept!

But it has to be one that costs the same or less to use, and takes about the same amount of time so that takes quite a few methods out of the equation.
 
2009-03-22 11:41:12 AM  
ZAZ: In exchange for a 75-year lease, the city got $1.2 billion to help plug its budget holes.

Modern government policy at the federal, state, and local level: do whatever it takes to get cash solve your immediate problem now and who cares about the long term consequences?


Applies to more than budget allocation. Hiring, re-orging departments, policy changes... everything.
 
2009-03-22 11:43:35 AM  
Crosshair: But it has to be one that costs the same or less to use, and takes about the same amount of time so that takes quite a few methods out of the equation.

Not really. Given how much time people spend finding parking and how much money they waste on cars anything more than walking should fit those criteria.
 
2009-03-22 11:53:15 AM  
Crosshair: But it has to be one that costs the same or less to use, and takes about the same amount of time so that takes quite a few methods out of the equation.

My bike fits both those criteria.
 
2009-03-22 12:18:45 PM  
KIA: Yeah, that's like sending the officers out to write more tickets. Once the citizens wise up and start scrupulously obeying the laws, then what?

Create new laws. Duh.
 
2009-03-22 12:46:39 PM  
Glasgowsfinest: My bike fits both those criteria.

My post was a subtle bash against wasteful mass transit. I use my bike too in the summer.
 
2009-03-22 01:13:01 PM  
next up - businesses migrating out of the city in search of a less hostile location to their interests.
 
2009-03-22 01:14:34 PM  
Who can ever find street parking with or without a meter? The people making the fat cash are the parking lot operators. That business is pure gold...

/works in the loop
//drives twice a year at most
 
2009-03-22 01:15:12 PM  
7of7: If only there were some method of transportation which didn't require drivers to park.

I take Chicago transit frequently, but there are also places I go that I can drive to in 10 minutes, but would take an hour to get to by transit.
 
2009-03-22 01:15:20 PM  
Legislators enact but one law: The law of unintended consequences.
 
2009-03-22 01:16:10 PM  
This new parking scheme, like parking in Chicago wasn't already a complicated rip off, is the last straw. Next time we head there (do so frequently) we won't bring the car unless we have a free or cheap place to leave it the entire time. Otherwise the car is staying home and we will take the train in.

We paid around $20 just to park the car and take the kids to do the Sears tower tour. This was before the new parking scam.
 
2009-03-22 01:16:29 PM  
7of7: If only there were some method of transportation which didn't require drivers to park.

Welcome to the read world. People like to drive. Hitting drivers in the wallet is not a wise thing to do.
 
2009-03-22 01:16:35 PM  
But they privatized! Surely, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a private company to do something worse than the way the government was doing it! Isn't privatization and getting the government out of such things supposed to make things better!

/Well, *OBVIOUSLY*, the free market just wasn't applied correctly in this instance...
 
2009-03-22 01:17:08 PM  
www.crossfitalexandria.com

Had his own way of protesting...
 
2009-03-22 01:17:08 PM  
Wait. You mean raising taxes doesn't actually increase revenue? You're saying that people will find a way around those taxes, even if it involves drastically changing their lives? Naw. That can't be right.
 
2009-03-22 01:17:49 PM  
Frank N Stein: 7of7: If only there were some method of transportation which didn't require drivers to park.

Welcome to the read world. People like to drive. Hitting drivers in the wallet is not a wise thing to do.


nope, they'll just drive somewhere else.
 
2009-03-22 01:19:50 PM  
Expect a driveway parking tax in the near future.. that is if they don't just put a parking meter there.
 
2009-03-22 01:19:53 PM  
RickyBRicky: Who can ever find street parking with or without a meter? The people making the fat cash are the parking lot operators. That business is pure gold...

/works in the loop
//drives twice a year at most


Outside of the Loop, Near North Side, and next to Wrigley it can often be done with relative ease.
 
2009-03-22 01:19:56 PM  
We took all the milk and apples because we needed them to lead you better. We don't even like them, but we suffer them for you. We love you.
 
2009-03-22 01:20:14 PM  
SpinStopper: Time to dust this one off ;)

Without a doubt, that's my favorite cunning plan pic.
 
2009-03-22 01:22:00 PM  
Helios1182: Outside of the Loop, Near North Side, and next to Wrigley it can often be done with relative ease.

Last weekend, it took me 20 minutes to find a parking spot on the North Side :(
 
2009-03-22 01:22:51 PM  
Glasgowsfinest: Crosshair: But it has to be one that costs the same or less to use, and takes about the same amount of time so that takes quite a few methods out of the equation.

My bike fits both those criteria.


Have fun riding a bike in January in Chicago. You'll thaw out sometime around May.
 
2009-03-22 01:25:00 PM  
Do What Now Question Mark: Wait. You mean raising taxes doesn't actually increase revenue? You're saying that people will find a way around those taxes, even if it involves drastically changing their lives? Naw. That can't be right.

Wait, you mean you're a moron who DNRTFA and comes in here to decry the EVIL GOVERNMENT AND EVIL EVIL TAXES when, in reality, this is the result of privatization?
Naw. That can't be right.
 
2009-03-22 01:25:19 PM  
Hmm... $7/hr... Seems pricey for street parking. And if there was no electronic payment available, no way I'd be parking there. Don't need 20lbs of change in my coat when I go out.
 
2009-03-22 01:27:04 PM  
Oh, and they're sharpening their pitchforks because they aren't allowed to own guns...
 
2009-03-22 01:27:05 PM  
The city of Glendale, CA did this too. It used to be you could park for free on Brand Blvd up to 9 AM, then after it was a two hour limit but still free. They decided right before x-mas to change this, screwing everybody who works or shops on Brand. Then the parking structures got in on it too and started charging $1/half hour parking. I work at the Borders there and am having to park in the mall's parking structure as it's the only free parking left in Glendale!!! I guess the city didn't take into consideration those that work and don't have the luxury of having their employer pick up the parking tab. Bastards!!! I hate you!!!
 
2009-03-22 01:28:12 PM  
Felgraf: But they privatized! Surely, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a private company to do something worse than the way the government was doing it! Isn't privatization and getting the government out of such things supposed to make things better!

/Well, *OBVIOUSLY*, the free market just wasn't applied correctly in this instance...


Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but for those who don't get it, granting a monopoly (in the form of a 75-year lease) to one company is as far from "free market" as you can get.
 
2009-03-22 01:29:20 PM  
I will be working in dowtown Houston this summer and have to drive every day. I hear from people who scouted my place of work for me that it takes almost 30min to find parking and even then you have to walk a good 10min. Hopefully Houston does'nt get any pages from Chicago's playbook.

/I am not looking forward to this
 
2009-03-22 01:29:53 PM  
Steve Goodman is, sadly, unavailable for comment.
 
2009-03-22 01:31:26 PM  
LonMead: Had his own way of protesting...

I'M SHAKING IT HERE BOSS!!!
 
2009-03-22 01:31:54 PM  
Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but for those who don't get it, granting a monopoly (in the form of a 75-year lease) to one company is as far from "free market" as you can get.

How would you integrate the free market into parking meters?

Auction off the individual meters or lots of meters to private companies? I guess that might work, as long as a company doesn't have all of the meters in one particular area, otherwise that'd be a de facto monopoly, anyway.
 
2009-03-22 01:31:58 PM  
pierceive: Felgraf: But they privatized! Surely, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a private company to do something worse than the way the government was doing it! Isn't privatization and getting the government out of such things supposed to make things better!

/Well, *OBVIOUSLY*, the free market just wasn't applied correctly in this instance...

Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but for those who don't get it, granting a monopoly (in the form of a 75-year lease) to one company is as far from "free market" as you can get.


You're not sure if that was sarcastic? Do you know what sarcasm is?
 
2009-03-22 01:32:35 PM  
pierceive: Felgraf: But they privatized! Surely, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a private company to do something worse than the way the government was doing it! Isn't privatization and getting the government out of such things supposed to make things better!

/Well, *OBVIOUSLY*, the free market just wasn't applied correctly in this instance...

Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but for those who don't get it, granting a monopoly (in the form of a 75-year lease) to one company is as far from "free market" as you can get.


facts just confuse trolls.
 
2009-03-22 01:33:32 PM  
So does this contract give the private company a right to collect a minimum amount of parking fees per a meter or per a year or else the city has to pay compensation?
 
2009-03-22 01:35:40 PM  
Governments see citizens as sheep to be sheared for their own enrichment. However, if they shear too closely and too often, the sheep will eventually revolt.

"The power to tax is the power to destroy." - Thomas Jefferson
 
2009-03-22 01:35:48 PM  
Do What Now Question Mark: Wait. You mean raising taxes doesn't actually increase revenue? You're saying that people will find a way around those taxes, even if it involves drastically changing their lives? Naw. That can't be right.

Your argument makes no sense in terms of income taxes.

FAIL
 
2009-03-22 01:38:08 PM  
Sadly, $7 for 2 hours still sounds like a good deal, considering I paid $24 on a Satuday night not too long ago (that was maybe 4 hours). Chicago Loop parking is ridiculous.

I try not to drive down there, if I can help it.
 
2009-03-22 01:40:15 PM  
I lived in Chi-town from 2001-2004, and then moved to Colorado. The City of Chicago has hired a law firm to track me down for 1 parking ticket I never paid in 2003. They are threating to garnish my wages and ruin my life yada yada yada.

/Still not going to pay it.
 
2009-03-22 01:40:48 PM  
pierceive: Felgraf: But they privatized! Surely, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a private company to do something worse than the way the government was doing it! Isn't privatization and getting the government out of such things supposed to make things better!

/Well, *OBVIOUSLY*, the free market just wasn't applied correctly in this instance...

Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but for those who don't get it, granting a monopoly (in the form of a 75-year lease) to one company is as far from "free market" as you can get.


I was being sarcastic, yes. And as someone else said, how the *hell* would you apply 'free market' to parking meters? If the bidding for the contract was open to all comers, that'd be pretty close, would it not?

And no, Weaver95, I was not trolling. I was being sarcastic, which is slightly different. The word Troll gets thrown around too much by both sides these days. I was pointing out that here is a cause where privatization has caused a service to *worsen*, not improve.
 
2009-03-22 01:40:55 PM  
My hometown took out all the parking meters a few years ago. It keeps the downtown from totally dying. Who the hell wants to live in a big city, and what kind of business doesn't relocate? There is nothing that can't be done cheaper in the middle of nowhere now.
 
2009-03-22 01:41:14 PM  
memphomaniac: Governments see citizens as sheep to be sheared for their own enrichment. However, if they shear too closely and too often, the sheep will eventually revolt.

"The power to tax is the power to destroy." - Thomas Jefferson


About time they revolted. Chicago needs to be brought down to her knees and start demanding change.

Then again, she already is, now she needs to change. The first step: get rid of Daley, Stroger, and Quinn. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
 
2009-03-22 01:43:24 PM  
It makes sense for a city such as Chicago to try to discourage driving/parking downtown, since they do have one of the better public transit systems in N America.

Where it is really screwy is when you have a town too small to support a decent transit system, and the yee-haw local politicians decide to install parking meters to get more revenue.

I've see what happens first hand. I live in a town of ~50,000; the downtown is "meter-free", because every time the local yokels float the paid parking proposal, it get shot down by the Downtown Business Association. Result: the downtown is thriving, even with a big-ass Wallmart Supercenter a couple of miles away.

The brain-dead council in a neighboring town of similar size decided to go the parking meter route to get some extra cash. The town center there is now full of boarded-up businesses.

Some people are just so stupid.
 
2009-03-22 01:44:13 PM  
Chicago will lose a load of stores soon. Its cheaper to pay for the gas to drive to the burbs to shop & taxes are lower also.

When the jobs go to the burbs, people will move towards the burbs for cheaper housing/renting & to be closer to work.

Is Chicago the next Detroit without the race riots? A sad thought, but maybe bumping up charges too quickly is a very piss poor idea.
 
2009-03-22 01:49:29 PM  
bertuglia1978: I lived in Chi-town from 2001-2004, and then moved to Colorado. The City of Chicago has hired a law firm to track me down for 1 parking ticket I never paid in 2003. They are threating to garnish my wages and ruin my life yada yada yada.

/Still not going to pay it.


That'll learn em!
 
2009-03-22 01:49:32 PM  
Came for the cool hand luke.

//i would use a cutting torch on the meter itself
 
2009-03-22 01:51:17 PM  
Felgraf: But they privatized! Surely, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a private company to do something worse than the way the government was doing it! Isn't privatization and getting the government out of such things supposed to make things better!

/Well, *OBVIOUSLY*, the free market just wasn't applied correctly in this instance...


Heh. And there are some people who say we should privatize roads because the road upkeep would be maintained better and would eliminate an "unnecessary" expense on the government. If you think the tolls are bad now, you will see a new meaning to the term "highway robbery" if that idea is ever passed.

/Come and drive Time-Warner's I-95! Now with extra streetlights!
 
2009-03-22 01:54:43 PM  
lunafutura.com

Luke Jackson goes to work.
 
2009-03-22 01:55:01 PM  
Understand that Richie is the same idiot who predicted metric assloads of cash rolling in when Chicago elected to tax bottled water. Joe Six-Pack, being a crafty bastard, bought his water outside of the city or used the tap. Richie never thinks anything through.

/and isn't half the man that his father was
 
2009-03-22 01:56:47 PM  
Glasgowsfinest: 7of7: If only there were some method of transportation which didn't require drivers to park.

Or even to drive. What a concept!


Look at the big picture, when more people start riding the bus, bus rates will quadruple. When more people start riding bicycles, then the city will implement bike license fees.

You see how this works. Like AIG, whatever money is in your pocket, you give it to the government like a good citizen.

Big Brother is watching you.
 
2009-03-22 01:57:09 PM  
ZAZ

Since schools have beaten it into people's head that causality is simply arbitrary, why WOULDNT they seek instant gratification?
 
2009-03-22 02:00:34 PM  
3skin: bertuglia1978: I lived in Chi-town from 2001-2004, and then moved to Colorado. The City of Chicago has hired a law firm to track me down for 1 parking ticket I never paid in 2003. They are threating to garnish my wages and ruin my life yada yada yada.

/Still not going to pay it.

That'll learn em!


I'll show me.
 
2009-03-22 02:05:27 PM  
I find it interesting how on these Fark threads people say that doing without a car is "impossible", and then as time goes on we see it happening more and more.
 
2009-03-22 02:05:36 PM  
Came here for the Cool Hand Luke references. Leaving content.
 
2009-03-22 02:05:40 PM  
bertuglia1978: I lived in Chi-town from 2001-2004, and then moved to Colorado. The City of Chicago has hired a law firm to track me down for 1 parking ticket I never paid in 2003. They are threating to garnish my wages and ruin my life yada yada yada.

/Still not going to pay it.


That actually happened to me. I was there from September of 2004 to Feb. 2005, didn't like it, moved back to Texas. July of 2005 they sent me a letter saying that I owed them for a parking ticket from September. Chicago, when you get a parking ticket, has no problem putting a bright orange ticket on your car window and it glues to your window, so there is no way I could have ever missed it. It arrived with one week before my time to contest the ticket had ended, and there was no way I was going to drive to Chicago to contest one parking ticket. I called them up and they said "We didn't tell you about the ticket because you car was out of state, we had to communicate with the State of Texas to find the address that the car was registered at." I told them that was complete bullshiat and had they ticketed me, it either would have been contested or paid, and that the City of Chicago was crazy to think that they could send me a ticket 10 months after the date of violation and assume that I was going to pay it with no evidence of the offense.

They send me letters about once a year (the car was registered at my mom's address because I was in the process of moving to Chicago. Since she hasn't moved, she still gets to letters) telling me to spend my tax refund to pay them off. I shred them. I asked a detective, just what could the City of Chicago do to me. He answered, "There is a national database of people who are to be arrested on site. That's for murderers, drug dealers, rapists. Not for anyone with one unpaid parking ticket." he then said, "Also, you're in Texas, far out of the jurisdiction of Chicago, they can huff and puff, but really, can't do shiat." the ticket was bought from the City of Chicago by a law firm. There was the threat to boot my car. But that car was scrapped, so they are welcomed to boot it...but by this point, what's the point of pulling it's rear tire from a stack of tires only to boot it. Also, how would you know it was from my car?
 
2009-03-22 02:06:46 PM  
Where does John Galt park?
 
2009-03-22 02:06:50 PM  
pierceive: Felgraf: But they privatized! Surely, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a private company to do something worse than the way the government was doing it! Isn't privatization and getting the government out of such things supposed to make things better!

/Well, *OBVIOUSLY*, the free market just wasn't applied correctly in this instance...

Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but for those who don't get it, granting a monopoly (in the form of a 75-year lease) to one company is as far from "free market" as you can get.


THIS.

Most imposed taxes & fees assume that that people are stupid and will continue whatever activity you've just made more expensive at the same rate as before..
//Just like most "soak-the-rich" taxes & fees assume that "rich" people are stupid sheep too.

The principal is simple - to some extent you always encourage what you subsidize and discourage what you tax. So, by The Law of Unintended Consequences, legislators who assume doubling taxes on something will double revenue, or businesses who assume the same for what will happen when they double their charges, are usually wrong.
 
2009-03-22 02:07:48 PM  
Las Vegas has it right. No one charges for parking anywhere. Doesn't matter where you staying, you can park at their casino. It's one reason it's a preferred destination for me.

Unfortunately, the State and City are getting greedy and they are going to add a new car rental tax, which in most cities are getting farking ridiculous. Houston's car rental and hotel rental taxes are so bad, I avoid it at all costs.

It blows my mind. You charge $8/ hr. for parking and you're pushing away people who will spend $100 at a nice downtown Chicago restaurant.
 
2009-03-22 02:09:42 PM  
Wow.

No wonder so many northerners keep flying down here and infesting the South. If only they would not bring their nutty ideas with them...
 
2009-03-22 02:11:00 PM  
SouthernManDunWrong: Glasgowsfinest: 7of7: If only there were some method of transportation which didn't require drivers to park.

Or even to drive. What a concept!

Look at the big picture, when more people start riding the bus, bus rates will quadruple. When more people start riding bicycles, then the city will implement bike license fees.

You see how this works. Like AIG, whatever money is in your pocket, you give it to the government like a good citizen.

Big Brother is watching you.


I used to live in Minneapolis and got pulled over while on my bike and informed by the police that I could not ride it since it was not registered.
 
2009-03-22 02:12:31 PM  
This is just like the smoking ban. People will get used to it and business will thrive. Thrive I say.
 
2009-03-22 02:13:01 PM  
Glasgowsfinest: Crosshair: But it has to be one that costs the same or less to use, and takes about the same amount of time so that takes quite a few methods out of the equation.

My bike fits both those criteria.


Plus, your bike will easily carry several bags of groceries, the dry cleaning, maybe a package or two from the post office and that birthday present for your nephew, you know, all those things which those losers in cars should never purchase or need.
 
2009-03-22 02:13:32 PM  
studebaker hoch: I find it interesting how on these Fark threads people say that doing without a car is "impossible", and then as time goes on we see it happening more and more.

It depends on where you live. In Chicago, the impression that I got was that the common man was encouraged to ride mass transit while the roads were intended for buses and the private vehicles of the rich (how else do you explain $20 parking down town?).

Where I live, there is no mass transit, unless you're taking the school bus. You can bike, and right now it might feel like a good idea, but come July and August, that plan is going to suck, not to mention the once a year or so when it freezes here. Plus, how do you put a weeks worth of groceries onto a bike?

My dad and step mom put a bid onto a house that sits on 10 acres of land in Colorado in the middle of no where. 20 miles to the nearest town. There is no way they could do without a car.
 
2009-03-22 02:15:32 PM  
We should force the utopia on these non team players!!. How dare they run away from our awesome taxation.

/Hopey Change!!
 
2009-03-22 02:16:55 PM  
FTA: And at 2 p.m. around the Sheraton Hotel on Columbus Drive, a place where normally you can't crowbar your car into a space, there were at least three or four parking spaces

Just to take up the other side of the argument, how much is your time worth? If you pay more in parking fees, but you are pretty certain that you will be able to park immediately, is that worse than having a lower price but being pretty certain you won't be able to take advantage of it?

Theoretically, it might be better for the company in charge to set the price high enough to average a single empty spot within walking distance at all times. Not only would they receive revenue from nearly all the spots, but no driver would have to wait or circle the block over and over looking for a spot. That would be hard to achieve, though.

/of course, I'm probably one of the few people on Fark that think congestion charges might be warranted in certain areas at certain times. Something isn't "free" if it costs me an hour stuck in traffic.
//Off on my walk around town. :)
 
2009-03-22 02:17:29 PM  
Great Janitor: bertuglia1978: I lived in Chi-town from 2001-2004, and then moved to Colorado. The City of Chicago has hired a law firm to track me down for 1 parking ticket I never paid in 2003. They are threating to garnish my wages and ruin my life yada yada yada.

/Still not going to pay it.

That actually happened to me. I was there from September of 2004 to Feb. 2005, didn't like it, moved back to Texas. July of 2005 they sent me a letter saying that I owed them for a parking ticket from September. Chicago, when you get a parking ticket, has no problem putting a bright orange ticket on your car window and it glues to your window, so there is no way I could have ever missed it. It arrived with one week before my time to contest the ticket had ended, and there was no way I was going to drive to Chicago to contest one parking ticket. I called them up and they said "We didn't tell you about the ticket because you car was out of state, we had to communicate with the State of Texas to find the address that the car was registered at." I told them that was complete bullshiat and had they ticketed me, it either would have been contested or paid, and that the City of Chicago was crazy to think that they could send me a ticket 10 months after the date of violation and assume that I was going to pay it with no evidence of the offense.

They send me letters about once a year (the car was registered at my mom's address because I was in the process of moving to Chicago. Since she hasn't moved, she still gets to letters) telling me to spend my tax refund to pay them off. I shred them. I asked a detective, just what could the City of Chicago do to me. He answered, "There is a national database of people who are to be arrested on site. That's for murderers, drug dealers, rapists. Not for anyone with one unpaid parking ticket." he then said, "Also, you're in Texas, far out of the jurisdiction of Chicago, they can huff and puff, but really, can't do shiat." the ticket was bought from the City of Chicago by a law firm. There was the threat to boot my car. But that car was scrapped, so they are welcomed to boot it...but by this point, what's the point of pulling it's rear tire from a stack of tires only to boot it. Also, how would you know it was from my car?


When I lived there, I got TONS of parking tickets and even got booted once. I paid all of the tickets off in one shot, and they removed the boot. I've gotten that nasty full-page sticker too that ruins your glass even if you have a razor blade. I definitley dont have that same car anymore (keeping it on the street through 4 Chicago winters ruined it), but this law firm tracked me down nonetheless. They offered me to settle and pay half...haha, Nope.
That WILL Learn em.
 
2009-03-22 02:23:18 PM  
You can always get your walkability score. (new window)

I live out in the country and mine came up to 2 out so 100.
 
2009-03-22 02:24:46 PM  
KIA: Yeah, that's like sending the officers out to write more tickets. Once the citizens wise up and start scrupulously obeying the laws, then what?

Start paying parking maids a commission on written tickets, or at the very least, enforce strict quotas.

Then sit back, and watch the parking maids cut corners and shake down otherwise law obeying drivers.
 
2009-03-22 02:25:08 PM  
Felgraf: pierceive: Felgraf: But they privatized! Surely, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a private company to do something worse than the way the government was doing it! Isn't privatization and getting the government out of such things supposed to make things better!

/Well, *OBVIOUSLY*, the free market just wasn't applied correctly in this instance...

Not sure if you were being sarcastic, but for those who don't get it, granting a monopoly (in the form of a 75-year lease) to one company is as far from "free market" as you can get.

I was being sarcastic, yes. And as someone else said, how the *hell* would you apply 'free market' to parking meters? If the bidding for the contract was open to all comers, that'd be pretty close, would it not?

And no, Weaver95, I was not trolling. I was being sarcastic, which is slightly different. The word Troll gets thrown around too much by both sides these days. I was pointing out that here is a cause where privatization has caused a service to *worsen*, not improve.



Think of the question this way : How the hell can you privatise what is neccesarrily a law enforcement function ? It's not a all "free market" if the govenment is still involved. Parking garages are free market not meters on a public street.

Any private company that deals with the government, even as a customer, cannot expect a free market relationship.
 
2009-03-22 02:27:02 PM  
bertuglia1978: Great Janitor: bertuglia1978: I lived in Chi-town from 2001-2004, and then moved to Colorado. The City of Chicago has hired a law firm to track me down for 1 parking ticket I never paid in 2003. They are threating to garnish my wages and ruin my life yada yada yada.

/Still not going to pay it.

That actually happened to me. I was there from September of 2004 to Feb. 2005, didn't like it, moved back to Texas. July of 2005 they sent me a letter saying that I owed them for a parking ticket from September. Chicago, when you get a parking ticket, has no problem putting a bright orange ticket on your car window and it glues to your window, so there is no way I could have ever missed it. It arrived with one week before my time to contest the ticket had ended, and there was no way I was going to drive to Chicago to contest one parking ticket. I called them up and they said "We didn't tell you about the ticket because you car was out of state, we had to communicate with the State of Texas to find the address that the car was registered at." I told them that was complete bullshiat and had they ticketed me, it either would have been contested or paid, and that the City of Chicago was crazy to think that they could send me a ticket 10 months after the date of violation and assume that I was going to pay it with no evidence of the offense.

They send me letters about once a year (the car was registered at my mom's address because I was in the process of moving to Chicago. Since she hasn't moved, she still gets to letters) telling me to spend my tax refund to pay them off. I shred them. I asked a detective, just what could the City of Chicago do to me. He answered, "There is a national database of people who are to be arrested on site. That's for murderers, drug dealers, rapists. Not for anyone with one unpaid parking ticket." he then said, "Also, you're in Texas, far out of the jurisdiction of Chicago, they can huff and puff, but really, can't do shiat." the ticket was bought from the City of Chicago by a law firm. There was the threat to boot my car. But that car was scrapped, so they are welcomed to boot it...but by this point, what's the point of pulling it's rear tire from a stack of tires only to boot it. Also, how would you know it was from my car?

When I lived there, I got TONS of parking tickets and even got booted once. I paid all of the tickets off in one shot, and they removed the boot. I've gotten that nasty full-page sticker too that ruins your glass even if you have a razor blade. I definitley dont have that same car anymore (keeping it on the street through 4 Chicago winters ruined it), but this law firm tracked me down nonetheless. They offered me to settle and pay half...haha, Nope.
That WILL Learn em.


OK Bert now I understand. You paid off all those tickets only because you got booted. You got another ticket after that but you had moved away so it is not necesary to pay it.

/see where you're coming from
 
2009-03-22 02:27:04 PM  
I love politicians and the Law of Unintended Consequences. These types of stories are better than Jerry Springer.
 
2009-03-22 02:27:08 PM  
ZAZ: In exchange for a 75-year lease, the city got $1.2 billion to help plug its budget holes.

Modern government societal policy at the federal, state, and local level: do whatever it takes to get cash now and who cares about the long term consequences?


/FTFY
 
2009-03-22 02:29:01 PM  
GaryPDX: We should force the utopia on these non team players!!. How dare they run away from our awesome taxation.

/Hopey Change!!


You know how I know you're a moron?
This is your precious "privatization" doing this, not the government, you WHARRGARBLing moron.
 
2009-03-22 02:31:20 PM  
The whole purpose of parking meters was as an urban planning tool, used to generate turnover so businesses could see a steady stream of customers who park for a short time, shop and leave, opening spaces for more shoppers.

except that where I live, people where using the meters as long term parking rather than garage their cars.
so there were NEVER any parking spots

they had to move their cars,
TADA, visitors can find parking
 
2009-03-22 02:33:01 PM  
Superjew: Plus, your bike will easily carry several bags of groceries, the dry cleaning, maybe a package or two from the post office and that birthday present for your nephew, you know, all those things which those losers in cars should never purchase or need.

Who said that?

If I need to carry heavy stuff, I take the car. It's the people who don't need to carry stuff and still take the car that need to wise up. Going to work for example.

I used to have a (Canadian) neighbour who would drive 200 yards to the shop to buy groceries.
200 yards.
For two bags.
Later, she joined weightwatchers as she thought she was getting too fat. And she couldn't figure out why.

I'm now lucky enough to live in a city with a superb bus and tram network, and which also is very cycle friendly. Which means I use the bike more, or trams. And I can take my bike on the trams.

And thats the point really: if you make it easy for people to ditch the car, rather than punishing them for using it, they will.
 
2009-03-22 02:36:39 PM  
Superjew: Plus, your bike will easily carry several bags of groceries, the dry cleaning, maybe a package or two from the post office and that birthday present for your nephew, you know, all those things which those losers in cars should never purchase or need.

Get the fark over yourself.
 
2009-03-22 02:36:52 PM  
otterly_delicious: You can always get your walkability score. (new window)

I live out in the country and mine came up to 2 out so 100.


I got 75 out of 100, but that thing fails to take into account areas you would most definitely NOT want to walk through, and it's also showing me crap that's been closed down for years, so it's probably closer to a 60/100 for me. Neat little tool though.
 
2009-03-22 02:37:16 PM  
Is this the same a**hole that plowed up Meigs Field in the middle of the night? Anybody with MS FlightSim from '98 to '02 remembers the default takeoff location as the runway on an island just off downtown Chicago. Coolest transportation hub ever. In the middle of the night he had bulldozers and graders rip up the runway with 25 airplanes parked on the field. No notice, no due process. Bastard. DIAF.
 
2009-03-22 02:37:19 PM  
stryker4526: You know how I know you're a moron?
This is your precious "privatization" doing this, not the government, you WHARRGARBLing moron.


Pragmatism is a wonderful thing... the logic error here is that the gov't created the monopoly, so this 'privatization' you dislike so is not the root cause of the potential drop in sales revenue. But, hey, just shout me down without thinking a problem through or providing an valid alternative.

//WHARRGARBL, you know you want to.
 
2009-03-22 02:39:49 PM  
Could this be the start of something here, the people of Chicago finally telling the Daley family to go fark itself?

Crappy winters, corrupt cops, and a monarchy in City Hall. Why would anyone want to stay in Chicago?
 
2009-03-22 02:41:16 PM  
lucumon: stryker4526: You know how I know you're a moron?
This is your precious "privatization" doing this, not the government, you WHARRGARBLing moron.

Pragmatism is a wonderful thing... the logic error here is that the gov't created the monopoly, so this 'privatization' you dislike so is not the root cause of the potential drop in sales revenue. But, hey, just shout me down without thinking a problem through or providing an valid alternative.

//WHARRGARBL, you know you want to.


Ah, GaryPDX, you forgot to log out of your alt before responding to me quoting you. There's one important thing you're missing: parking meters are not efficiently enforceable without a monopoly. You can't have several companies watching the meters in the same area effectively, and it really should be up to the municipality, not some private company, since it really boils down to a law enforcement issue. The "valid alternative" would be to not have done this in the first place. Parking meters work just fine as a municipally enforced tool.

So yeah, there you go.
 
2009-03-22 02:42:41 PM  
i pulled out of a parking space in Chicago today because it was metered so i'm really getting a kick out of these replies. it was $.25/15 min so i moved the car a block away and parked on a residential street and walked. i could have just paid the buck, but fark that! meters should not be required on Sunday.

this city's taxes are beyond stupid now. other than fresh groceries i no longer make any purchases in the city.
 
2009-03-22 02:42:45 PM  
so before I wouldn't be able to find a spot and now I can? doesn't sound so bad. what good is cheap parking if I can't take advantage of it?

/DNRTFA or all the comments
 
2009-03-22 02:44:00 PM  
William 'Fat Tony' Williams: i pulled out of a parking space in Chicago today because it was metered so i'm really getting a kick out of these replies. it was $.25/15 min so i moved the car a block away and parked on a residential street and walked. i could have just paid the buck, but fark that! meters should not be required on Sunday.

this city's taxes are beyond stupid now. other than fresh groceries i no longer make any purchases in the city.


Chicago requires you to feed meters on Sundays? Wow. I don't have to feed meters between like 5pm and 5am on weekdays, and not at all on Sundays.
 
2009-03-22 02:46:55 PM  
KIA: Yeah, that's like sending the officers out to write more tickets. Once the citizens wise up and start scrupulously obeying the laws, then what?

If it works like any other government, you write more laws to be broken.

/There's no way to rule innocent men
 
2009-03-22 02:47:27 PM  
stryker4526: GaryPDX: We should force the utopia on these non team players!!. How dare they run away from our awesome taxation.

/Hopey Change!!

You know how I know you're a moron?
This is your precious "privatization" doing this, not the government, you WHARRGARBLing moron.


Government mandated monopolies aren't 'private'. But you knew that already.
 
2009-03-22 02:48:17 PM  
Where I used to live in Glasgow, not only do the flats not have garages (way too old) but the council has just started to charge for on street parking. 6 days a week, even if you live there.

you can get a parking permit (yours for $100 a year) but only if you own the car... if it's a company car and it's not registered to your address, you're screwed

I'm glad I live in a more sensible country now.
 
2009-03-22 02:50:01 PM  
stryker4526: The "valid alternative" would be to not have done this in the first place. Parking meters work just fine as a municipally enforced tool.

So yeah, there you go.


First, I am not GaryPDX, just an MBA student who rolls his eyes at what he sees politicians doing a lot. Chicago is a special kid: charging citizens the $200 tickets for public transpo bus drivers who break traffic light laws: Dumb. Whenever people blame private, greedy corporations for being private, greedy corporations, they immediately get slotted into the 'lacking intelligence' column. Then again, welcome to Fark.

Second, I agree with you that this shouldnt have happened: 75 year contract without stipulations on how much they are allowed to charge? A government should exist to facilitate economic success, not be a leach to grow off prosperity. There are many functions that should not be privatized: Law enforcement and defense being a couple obvious ones.

Third, there are many government created/enforce monopolies that work pretty well: utilities for example. They are not run by a local municipality and yet they provide us with fairly reliable power (note: unless you are from WV; you are farked then). The local government sets the rate of return the company can make which limits how much they can charge. Why, in a city like Chicago, did they not think this would apply to parking meters as well?
 
2009-03-22 02:52:42 PM  
lucumon: stryker4526: The "valid alternative" would be to not have done this in the first place. Parking meters work just fine as a municipally enforced tool.

So yeah, there you go.

First, I am not GaryPDX, just an MBA student who rolls his eyes at what he sees politicians doing a lot. Chicago is a special kid: charging citizens the $200 tickets for public transpo bus drivers who break traffic light laws: Dumb. Whenever people blame private, greedy corporations for being private, greedy corporations, they immediately get slotted into the 'lacking intelligence' column. Then again, welcome to Fark.

Second, I agree with you that this shouldnt have happened: 75 year contract without stipulations on how much they are allowed to charge? A government should exist to facilitate economic success, not be a leach to grow off prosperity. There are many functions that should not be privatized: Law enforcement and defense being a couple obvious ones.

Third, there are many government created/enforce monopolies that work pretty well: utilities for example. They are not run by a local municipality and yet they provide us with fairly reliable power (note: unless you are from WV; you are farked then). The local government sets the rate of return the company can make which limits how much they can charge. Why, in a city like Chicago, did they not think this would apply to parking meters as well?


Short answer: because it's Chicago.
I also get the feeling that there is more to report on here. I bet there ARE stipulations as to how much they can charge, but the private company just immediately busted it up to damn near the amount, since they get to keep all the revenue from the meters, while Chicago gets to keep the ticket revenue.
 
2009-03-22 02:53:45 PM  
lucumon: Second, I agree with you that this shouldnt have happened: 75 year contract without stipulations on how much they are allowed to charge? A government should exist to facilitate economic success, not be a leach to grow off prosperity. There are many functions that should not be privatized: Law enforcement and defense being a couple obvious ones.

Giving an exclusive 75 year contract to ONE business organization and not allowing competition isn't 'privatizing' anything. it's a government mandated monopoly and old skool patronage politics of the worst possible sort. To my mind it's also asking for corruption and abuse, as well as extremely damaging to local business interests but that's a discussion for another time.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2009-03-22 02:53:58 PM  
How would you integrate the free market into parking meters?

Divide the city into 10-100 zones. Let out one year contracts for each zone. You get a penalty against your bid if you already have too many zones.

I'm not saying that's good policy. It's a policy that allows for price and service competition, unlike a 75 year citywide lease.

A much different way to optimize revenue and service is a free market in parking permits.
 
2009-03-22 02:55:44 PM  
Weaver95: stryker4526: GaryPDX: We should force the utopia on these non team players!!. How dare they run away from our awesome taxation.

/Hopey Change!!

You know how I know you're a moron?
This is your precious "privatization" doing this, not the government, you WHARRGARBLing moron.

Government mandated monopolies aren't 'private'. But you knew that already.


So... being run by a private company, the meters aren't privatized now? Hmm... Also, this isn't a "government-mandated monopoly," it's just a 75-year contract (which is still ridiculous, don't get me wrong). The government didn't make any laws saying that this particular company HAS to accept the contract, or that no one else can manage the meters if this company were to become defunct, it's not really a gov't-imposed monopoly. Since the "free-market" is supposed to be so good at keeping monopolies from happening (yeah right), wouldn't it not matter? I mean, according to all the "free-market" radicals, this company will fail anyway because people won't want their overpriced parking services.
 
2009-03-22 02:58:05 PM  
ZAZ: How would you integrate the free market into parking meters?

Divide the city into 10-100 zones. Let out one year contracts for each zone. You get a penalty against your bid if you already have too many zones.

I'm not saying that's good policy. It's a policy that allows for price and service competition, unlike a 75 year citywide lease.

A much different way to optimize revenue and service is a free market in parking permits.


Ugh... no. Parking is mostly a law enforcement thing, unless you're parking in a private lot. It SHOULD NOT be given up to the free market. There's practically no way to avoid a monopoly. Your proposal is cumbersome and inefficient. Why is it that nobody had a problem with the government (one entity) managing parking, but now all of a sudden when they give a contract to one entity for parking management it's ZOMG SUPARBAD GOVURNMENT MAKIN MONOPOLEEZ.
 
2009-03-22 03:00:12 PM  
Daley sold the Chicago Skyway for something like 3 billion dollars and the company that bought it pretty much guaranteed they would up the toll to 8.00 to use the bridge. Within 6 months of this sale, he was already complaining that the city needed more money.

To stay at a hotel in Chicago, its runs about 50.00 per day to park your car.(no in or out privelages). To go to a restaurant in the city it costs about 25.00 to valet park while you eat. Red light cameras are on every street corner to catch people going through on yellow. That costs 100.00 and you will get one or ten of these eventually. The gun laws in Chicago keep its citizenry from protecting themselves, yet the city has one of the highest murder rates in the country(I think the murderers don't pay attention to the gun laws).

Try attending sporting events. I make decent money but I still wont pay 350.00 for a ticket to a Bear game, or 120.00 to see the Blackhawks. Then pay 8.00 per beer and 30.00 to park. Oh and while you are at the game, crews of theives steal all the SUV spare tires.

Chicago has become a wonderful horrible abomination of what a city should be. Its now there primarily to seperate people from their cash and send them packing.

Still it has a great skyline.
 
2009-03-22 03:01:01 PM  
stryker4526: So... being run by a private company, the meters aren't privatized now?

By definition, a monopoly isn't competitive. Economic competition is the heart of privatization of formerly government services and the key to the success of the entire concept. Chicago removed the possiblity of competition completely, and thus - didn't really gain anything at all. Is it 'private'? no, not really. Monopolies are run by folks who keep out the rabble like you and me. All of which you understand of course. After all, you aren't stupid.
 
2009-03-22 03:01:11 PM  
KIA: Yeah, that's like sending the officers out to write more tickets. Once the citizens wise up and start scrupulously obeying the laws, then what?

Change the laws to make that impossible.

Breathing again eh? That's a $50 fine.
 
2009-03-22 03:01:14 PM  
Is the private company responsible for meter maintenance? A little glue injected into a few thousand meters would do wonders.
 
2009-03-22 03:01:34 PM  
Arny Schwazenegger has the best idea, quadruple registration fees for cars. This is after his predecessor Gray Davis was recalled for doubling them. Park it, drive it, leave it in the garage all year you're still going to pay.

But wait. Don't parking tickets reap six, seven, even eight times more than what meters bring in? If people start refusing to park at meters, how can they get ticketed? And how can the city hope to rake in that revenue?

Wow, somebody must be new in town and not familiar with Chicago law enforcement methodology. The meter maids can just walk down a block and slap tickets on any car they want. They'll always make their quotas. Can you say GOOGOO (new window)?
 
2009-03-22 03:01:44 PM  
At noon in Wicker Park, where Milwaukee Avenue is usually packed with parked cars, there were open meters waiting.

And at 2 p.m. around the Sheraton Hotel on Columbus Drive, a place where normally you can't crowbar your car into a space, there were at least three or four parking spaces.


Sounds great. How can I sign up my city?
 
2009-03-22 03:01:52 PM  
ty stick: Daley sold the Chicago Skyway for something like 3 billion dollars and the company that bought it pretty much guaranteed they would up the toll to 8.00 to use the bridge. Within 6 months of this sale, he was already complaining that the city needed more money.

To stay at a hotel in Chicago, its runs about 50.00 per day to park your car.(no in or out privelages). To go to a restaurant in the city it costs about 25.00 to valet park while you eat. Red light cameras are on every street corner to catch people going through on yellow. That costs 100.00 and you will get one or ten of these eventually. The gun laws in Chicago keep its citizenry from protecting themselves, yet the city has one of the highest murder rates in the country(I think the murderers don't pay attention to the gun laws).

Try attending sporting events. I make decent money but I still wont pay 350.00 for a ticket to a Bear game, or 120.00 to see the Blackhawks. Then pay 8.00 per beer and 30.00 to park. Oh and while you are at the game, crews of theives steal all the SUV spare tires.

Chicago has become a wonderful horrible abomination of what a city should be. Its now there primarily to seperate people from their cash and send them packing.

Still it has a great skyline.


It's a nice place to visit for shopping and restaurants, long as you park somewhere and take the L everywhere. Wouldn't want to live there, though.
 
2009-03-22 03:02:44 PM  
jjorsett: Is the private company responsible for meter maintenance? A little glue injected into a few thousand meters would do wonders.

how about we just don't park in the city for the next 75 years?
 
2009-03-22 03:05:20 PM  
Weaver95: stryker4526: So... being run by a private company, the meters aren't privatized now?

By definition, a monopoly isn't competitive. Economic competition is the heart of privatization of formerly government services and the key to the success of the entire concept. Chicago removed the possiblity of competition completely, and thus - didn't really gain anything at all. Is it 'private'? no, not really. Monopolies are run by folks who keep out the rabble like you and me. All of which you understand of course. After all, you aren't stupid.


I'll concede to your point. But, their whole point wasn't to gain anything, it was to make money now and damn the consequences. I still say that parking enforcement is one of the things that should remain in the hands of the local governments, though. It's a stupid thing to privatize, just like utilities would be a stupid thing to deregulate.
 
2009-03-22 03:06:05 PM  
jjorsett: Is the private company responsible for meter maintenance?

Yep they are.

Also the deal the city made has some outs if push comes to shove.
 
2009-03-22 03:07:20 PM  
OscarTamerz: Arny Schwarzenegger has the best idea, quadruple registration fees for cars. This is after his predecessor Gray Davis was recalled for doubling them.

It's not his idea, it's sheer hypocrisy. Arnie's people bashed Davis nonstop during the recall about the registration fee. It was the second charge against Davis -- the first was his mishandling of the energy crisis which turned out to be Enron's illegal scheme.

Arnie gets into office and he repeals the fee, costing $40 billion total and causing the state to stupidly run a budget deficit even during a good economy. The state could have used that money right now.
 
2009-03-22 03:08:27 PM  
stryker4526:
Also, this isn't a "government-mandated monopoly," it's just a 75-year contract (which is still ridiculous, don't get me wrong). The government didn't make any laws saying that this particular company HAS to accept the contract, or that no one else can manage the meters if this company were to become defunct, it's not really a gov't-imposed monopoly.


I'm not sure you understand what a monopoly is. Time-limits have nothing to do with it. An exclusive lease of an entire market is a government-granted monopoly. In case you weren't aware, patents and copyrights are also government-granted monopolies, and are time-limited.
 
2009-03-22 03:10:10 PM  
jjorsett: Is the private company responsible for meter maintenance? A little glue injected into a few thousand meters would do wonders.
Acid, better idea
 
2009-03-22 03:10:57 PM  
Weaver95:
Giving an exclusive 75 year contract to ONE business organization and not allowing competition isn't 'privatizing' anything. it's a government mandated monopoly and old skool patronage politics of the worst possible sort. To my mind it's also asking for corruption and abuse, as well as extremely damaging to local business interests but that's a discussion for another time.


I agree, hence the rolling of my eyes and the quotation marks in a previous post of mine. This is a government created monopoly and a government created problem, not an issue of privatization. I dont really want to solve any problems, just point out the shortfalls in other peoples' logic. (because, well, this is fark)
 
2009-03-22 03:14:40 PM  
stryker4526: I'll concede to your point. But, their whole point wasn't to gain anything, it was to make money now and damn the consequences. I still say that parking enforcement is one of the things that should remain in the hands of the local governments, though. It's a stupid thing to privatize, just like utilities would be a stupid thing to deregulate.

Monopolies are great - IF you happen to be the guy running the monopoly. It sucks brass donkey balls for everyone else though. Chicago essentially set up (and enforces) a state mandated economic monopoly on parking in the city. There's all sorts of ways to abuse that set up - kickbacks to the company to lower parking prices in your zone, extending the time limits on the meters, jacking up prices on your competition...that's just a few that come to mind off the top of my head. And since the city nominally 'privatized' the whole thing, they can delay and obfuscate public inquiry into how the system is run.

privatization isn't necessarily a bad thing, assuming it's done properly. But when corrupt political leaders sabotage the process of course it's going to end badly for the consumer.
 
2009-03-22 03:15:18 PM  
otterly_delicious: You can always get your walkability score. (new window)

I live out in the country and mine came up to 2 out so 100.


Wow, I got a perfect 0, and I consider myself close to town.
 
2009-03-22 03:15:37 PM  
pierceive: stryker4526:
Also, this isn't a "government-mandated monopoly," it's just a 75-year contract (which is still ridiculous, don't get me wrong). The government didn't make any laws saying that this particular company HAS to accept the contract, or that no one else can manage the meters if this company were to become defunct, it's not really a gov't-imposed monopoly.

I'm not sure you understand what a monopoly is. Time-limits have nothing to do with it. An exclusive lease of an entire market is a government-granted monopoly. In case you weren't aware, patents and copyrights are also government-granted monopolies, and are time-limited.


My point was it wasn't MANDATED. Granted != mandated. Otherwise I agree.
 
2009-03-22 03:18:23 PM  
Weaver95: Government mandated monopolies aren't 'private'. But you knew that already.

Wha wha WHAT??? This is privatization. This is the government turning over what used to be a government function over to a private company, which is the definition of privatization.

So when a glaring example of how privatization is a worse way to go arises, the response is to deny that it's actually privatization?

Reminds me of "Bbbbut the Soviet Union and China weren't doing REAL communism..."
 
2009-03-22 03:20:58 PM  
stiletto_the_wise: Wha wha WHAT??? This is privatization. This is the government turning over what used to be a government function over to a private company, which is the definition of privatization.

No, it's the definition of monopoly.

So when a glaring example of how privatization is a worse way to go arises, the response is to deny that it's actually privatization?

Reminds me of "Bbbbut the Soviet Union and China weren't doing REAL communism..."


privatization specifically mentions the idea that monopolies are a BAD thing. But you knew that.
 
2009-03-22 03:27:16 PM  
I don't take the bus, because I had plenty of that back when I was a kid. The big yellow cheesewagon is what has made me forever hate public transportation. I'd rather pay twice as much (or more) in rent and live within walking distance. Public transport is a breeding ground for all kinds of gross germs. If they made it open-air, maybe that'd be better. But they're stuffy, humid, and without fail incredibly gross. no thanks, I'd rather walk.
 
2009-03-22 03:30:25 PM  
Great Janitor

It depends on where you live.

Absolutely. When you choose where to live, you must also consider how you expect to move around. If it's the private car, then that is a choice you have made just as surely as picking out a house.

In Chicago, the impression that I got was that the common man was encouraged to ride mass transit while the roads were intended for buses and the private vehicles of the rich (how else do you explain $20 parking down town?).

Sounds like supply and demand more than rich-vs-poor.

Where I live, there is no mass transit, unless you're taking the school bus.

bummer.

You can bike, and right now it might feel like a good idea, but come July and August, that plan is going to suck, not to mention the once a year or so when it freezes here.

Biking in the heat is OK...it's stopping that's the killer.

Plus, how do you put a weeks worth of groceries onto a bike?

A bike trailer can haul 100lbs easily, though the internal volume can be a tad small. Of all the bicycling questions, the "how do I bring xxx" is easier handled than people realize. Those trailers *work*. Not to mention cars think you have a kid in the trailer and give you tons of room.

My dad and step mom put a bid onto a house that sits on 10 acres of land in Colorado in the middle of no where. 20 miles to the nearest town. There is no way they could do without a car.

If you recognize that going in you're ahead of the game.

My parents live in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada - same thing. They are totally dependent on their car(s) to get them anywhere at all. They wish they had alternatives, like a decent train system, but no such option exists.

/a Sierra foothills train would be cool, but the time for one has long passed. :(
 
2009-03-22 03:34:52 PM  
CleverGuy81: without fail incredibly gross

That's not my general experience here in Chicago, sure every so often it can happen, but in general, no.
 
2009-03-22 03:37:06 PM  
Glasgowsfinest: 7of7: If only there were some method of transportation which didn't require drivers to park.

Or even to drive. What a concept!


No! You're a madman!
 
2009-03-22 03:37:57 PM  
 
2009-03-22 03:49:02 PM  
corsec67: otterly_delicious: You can always get your walkability score. (new window)

I live out in the country and mine came up to 2 out so 100.

Wow, I got a perfect 0, and I consider myself close to town.


My walkability score chose Talbots for the Clothing & Music category. I claim shenanigans.
 
2009-03-22 03:53:23 PM  
D-D-D-Dave: corsec67: otterly_delicious: You can always get your walkability score. (new window)

I live out in the country and mine came up to 2 out so 100.

Wow, I got a perfect 0, and I consider myself close to town.

My walkability score chose Talbots for the Clothing & Music category. I claim shenanigans.


And mine helpfully directed me to my nearby grocery store, 7-11.

I also checked my parents' place, to which it suggested I walk to the nearby restaurant "Wolfie's Sports Bar". It's a quick jaunt down a divided 4-lane highway with no sidewalks.

And since when is something ~3 miles away "walkable"? That's an hour each way, easy.

Good idea, bad execution.
 
2009-03-22 03:54:19 PM  
Weaver95:
By definition, a monopoly isn't competitive. Economic competition is the heart of privatization of formerly government services and the key to the success of the entire concept.



Well considering the meters are on public sidewalks (built and maintained by the city of Chicago), monitoring parking spaces on public streets (also built and maintained by the city of Chicago), who should be in control of the parking on those streets and the metering of the parking on those streets?

The city of Chicago.

This cannot right be called a "monopoly" because it is and never has been a private company, but a public entity, and giving control of this public function (parking) to a private corporation for what equals an entire human lifetime has made it a monopoly. Privatization, the holy grail of capitalism evangelicals everywhere, doesn't always work, and in this case has made things worse.
 
2009-03-22 03:56:02 PM  
A monopoly can be private or public.

But when are are talking about the foundations of capitalism, the idea behind making something private is to secure several different options to encourage a real market.

If the monopoly is private, they will maximize efficiency to maximize profits. If the monopoly is public, they usually maximize bureauracy (their form or power) since there are no real profits to be split.

Either way, you are going to get farked.

The fact it is private doesn't make it free market.
 
2009-03-22 04:14:05 PM  
You tax something you get less of it.
What a surprise.

You subsidize something you get more of it.
 
2009-03-22 04:21:26 PM  
I have painful memories of paying $20 for a cramped lot by the Riviera, Metro or Aragon ballrooms. Wrigleyville too. Then I moved to Los Angeles county (with double the population) and was actually shocked to see parking rates drop dramatically.
 
2009-03-22 04:24:27 PM  
tenpoundsofcheese: You tax something you get less of it.
What a surprise.

You subsidize something you get more of it.


Another moran who DNRTFA...
 
2009-03-22 04:27:05 PM  
Grandmas Candy Dish: I have painful memories of paying $20 for a cramped lot by the Riviera, Metro or Aragon ballrooms. Wrigleyville too. Then I moved to Los Angeles county (with double the population) and was actually shocked to see parking rates drop dramatically.

The population density is also 50% higher in Chicago than LA. LA may have more people (not double), but it sprawls out like crazy.
 
2009-03-22 04:30:26 PM  
I am so glad that I live in a small city where the bus system rocks (clean buses, very nice drivers), bicycling is encouraged (there are bike lanes on all major roads, and even some minor ones), and most of the parking in the shopping district is reasonably priced (or free, if you go at the right day/time).

/Rock on, Fort Collins.
 
2009-03-22 04:31:20 PM  
I think that people are realizing at last that we do need our public transportation back.

/loves me some trains...
 
2009-03-22 04:43:52 PM  
If you have to pay a ticket in chicago, save the receipt. I was on the boot list back in 1997, so I went and paid off my tickets. In 2003, I received a new boot notice with all the same tickets. I requested a hearing to review the mistake, but without a receipt I was forced to pay again. I pointed out to the judge that I hadn't been on the boot list for 6 years, but she wouldn't do anything about it.
 
2009-03-22 04:53:53 PM  
Frank N Stein: Last weekend, it took me 20 minutes to find a parking spot on the North Side :(

Last weekend it took me much longer than that. I was a very unhappy person.
 
2009-03-22 04:56:22 PM  
Stupid gubmint, making everything more expensive with all it's socialist policies....

But by handing over municipal parking meters to a private company, the city has given its citizens a colossal case of sticker shock.Oh.

I'm by no means suggesting that everything would be greatly improved by governmental control, but this kinda shoots a great big hole in the libertarian/randian ideal that privitization of everything would benefit society. Is there any real benefit to this other than allowing someone to line thier pockets?
 
2009-03-22 04:58:38 PM  
KIA: Yeah, that's like sending the officers out to write more tickets. Once the citizens wise up and start scrupulously obeying the laws, then what?

Oh, come on, thats an easy one: make more things illegal and just do the bare minimum amount of 'public notification' to avoid having all those tickets overturned on appeal. Ignorance of the law is no defense after all.
 
2009-03-22 05:05:47 PM  
" sunken wrote:
I understand that banks are going introducing a new product---- the parking loan."


-Haha
 
2009-03-22 05:15:23 PM  
stryker4526:

Wait, you mean you're a moron who DNRTFA and comes in here to decry the EVIL GOVERNMENT AND EVIL EVIL TAXES when, in reality, this is the result of privatization?
Naw. That can't be right.


No, I'm the guy who understands that this:

"In exchange for a 75-year lease, the city got $1.2 billion to help plug its budget holes."

amounts to a tax increase. Just as printing more money, thereby making money worth less, amounts to a tax increase. But please, do go on admiring tax increases if you like.
 
2009-03-22 05:16:56 PM  
jenlen: Wow.

No wonder so many northerners keep flying down here and infesting the South. If only they would not bring their nutty ideas with them...


Ask any California Native how that worked out. And I'm not talking about teh gay neither. Berkeley is filled with uptight east coast morons who went west to be a hippie.
 
2009-03-22 05:24:15 PM  
Crosshair: Glasgowsfinest: My bike fits both those criteria.

My post was a subtle bash against wasteful mass transit. I use my bike too in the summer.


Meh. Ride no matter what the weather is if you're serious about starving saudi children to death one unused gallon at a time
 
2009-03-22 06:00:55 PM  
cmb53208: Could this be the start of something here, the people of Chicago finally telling the Daley family to go fark itself?

Crappy winters, corrupt cops, and a monarchy in City Hall. Why would anyone want to stay in Chicago?


What "reasons to stay in Chicago" might look like. (clicky-pop) The cultural diversity. The endless supply of things to do. The restaurants. It's awesome.

Yeah, the winters still suck. And don't get me started on the traffic.
 
2009-03-22 06:24:51 PM  
Needlessly Complicated: cmb53208: Could this be the start of something here, the people of Chicago finally telling the Daley family to go fark itself?

Crappy winters, corrupt cops, and a monarchy in City Hall. Why would anyone want to stay in Chicago?

What "reasons to stay in Chicago" might look like. (clicky-pop) The cultural diversity. The endless supply of things to do. The restaurants. It's awesome.

Yeah, the winters still suck. And don't get me started on the traffic.


Sorry, King Richard and his merry band of parasites negates all that. What good are all those events if you have to throw money at City Hall day in and day out?

If Chicago wasn't run by parasitic scum, then yeah it'd be a great place to live. But until then forget it.
 
2009-03-22 06:28:39 PM  
Having read about how absurdly high their parking meters are I sure as hell won't ever be going to Chicago. Not that it is particularly likely that I would ever visit there anyway. Too damn cold and just another damn big ugly dirty crime ridden city. I won't spend my dollars in any place that doesnt have ample free parking. Cities that try to rob me blind before I ever get in a store just dont deserve my contribution to their tax base.
Why they hell should anybody pay to park if they are going to be shopping? Or for that matter, even if they are not. There is more than enough open space in this country for parking to be free. If the stupid dirty enviro hippy douche types would let cities spread out a bit so everbody wasnt so crowded together our cities would be livable and people wouldnt be forced into the exurbs.
 
2009-03-22 06:49:43 PM  
Ima4nic8or: If the stupid dirty enviro hippy douche types would let cities spread out a bit so everbody wasnt so crowded together our cities would be livable and people wouldnt be forced into the exurbs.

0/10

Call me an optimist, but I refuse to believe anyone is really this stupid.
 
2009-03-22 06:52:25 PM  
stryker4526: I'll concede to your point. But, their whole point wasn't to gain anything, it was to make money now and damn the consequences. I still say that parking enforcement is one of the things that should remain in the hands of the local governments, though. It's a stupid thing to privatize, just like utilities would be a stupid thing to deregulate.


Rudy Rucker has a name for these folks, "The GIMMIES" (Give me your money, give me your time, and give me your freedoms). Greedy little government pigs that just scream "GIMMIE, GIMMIE, GIMMIE!" They only take and never return anything of value.
 
2009-03-22 06:59:30 PM  
Since I haven't read all the posts, has anyone dug up this? (new window)

It's Chicago's plan to draw tax on any car rental in the 6 collar counties. So, you rent a car outside the city and still have to pay city tax on it?
 
2009-03-22 07:01:58 PM  
I live in Chicago, and I walk to work or take a short subway ride, so I'm getting a kick...
 
2009-03-22 07:23:04 PM  
SpinStopper: Time to dust this one off ;)

Liberals truly have no clue how the real world and free markets work. It is amazing.
 
2009-03-22 07:24:26 PM  
Weaver95: next up - businesses migrating out of the city in search of a less hostile location to their interests.

See California.
 
2009-03-22 07:26:14 PM  
matt2891: Stupid gubmint, making everything more expensive with all it's socialist policies....

But by handing over municipal parking meters to a private company, the city has given its citizens a colossal case of sticker shock.Oh.

I'm by no means suggesting that everything would be greatly improved by governmental control, but this kinda shoots a great big hole in the libertarian/randian ideal that privitization of everything would benefit society. Is there any real benefit to this other than allowing someone to line thier pockets?


That isn't free market. If everyone had a lot or a part of the street, they would have to price it competitively. What this is is a government-sanctioned monopoly. These tend to be worse than government run (see the cable companies).
 
2009-03-22 07:32:46 PM  
If you can eliminate the need to drive to work, traffic then becomes somebody else's problem.

Let me tell you that is one empowering feeling.

/sayonara suckers.
 
2009-03-22 07:58:56 PM  
Nemo's Brother: That isn't free market. If everyone had a lot or a part of the street, they would have to price it competitively. What this is is a government-sanctioned monopoly. These tend to be worse than government run (see the cable companies).

Wonder if the contract allows the meter company to shake down local business via validated parking agreements? How... Yes! If the parking meter takes credit cards then you can refund the card. Hell maybe you could even sell reserved spots.

Call it free market innovation.
 
2009-03-22 08:51:39 PM  
studebaker hoch: I find it interesting how on these Fark threads people say that doing without a car is "impossible", and then as time goes on we see it happening more and more.

I've not had a car for 4 years now, and I don't even live in a big city. I walk to work and to the grocery store, and I take a cab or bus if I need to travel more than a couple of miles (which is rare, as most everything I need is within a mile of my house or can be ordered online at a cheaper cost).

Sure, in some areas (especially rural areas), you do need a car. Back when I lived near the OBX, I had to have a car. There was just no way to live near work, and it was almost impossible to live near enough stores.

In any city of decent size, it should be possible to live without a car. The problem is that so many people have been conditioned to believe that they need a car.
 
2009-03-22 08:56:02 PM  
WhyteRaven74: CleverGuy81: without fail incredibly gross

That's not my general experience here in Chicago, sure every so often it can happen, but in general, no.


::shudder:: I just remember that horrid, stuffy feeling in the school bus, where I felt like I couldn't breathe anything but some snotty kid's expulsions. I think I'm a bit PTSD'd by the school bus.

I walk a mile and a half to the lab every day, even though there's a bus that will take me within a couple hundred feet, even when it's 10 degrees outside. Just to avoid the damn bus. Maybe buses are better than I remember, but I'm inclined to doubt that.
 
2009-03-22 09:15:40 PM  
Day_Old_Dutchie: It makes sense for a city such as Chicago to try to discourage driving/parking downtown, since they do have one of the better public transit systems in N America.

Where it is really screwy is when you have a town too small to support a decent transit system, and the yee-haw local politicians decide to install parking meters to get more revenue.

I've see what happens first hand. I live in a town of ~50,000; the downtown is "meter-free", because every time the local yokels float the paid parking proposal, it get shot down by the Downtown Business Association. Result: the downtown is thriving, even with a big-ass Wallmart Supercenter a couple of miles away.

The brain-dead council in a neighboring town of similar size decided to go the parking meter route to get some extra cash. The town center there is now full of boarded-up businesses.

Some people are just so stupid.


This! Hahaha. Haven't these city managers ever played Sim City? Paying for parking is death for businesses.
 
2009-03-22 09:17:21 PM  
Charged parking and public transit are error messages. You have mismanaged your resources. Please re-adjust your resource-to-usage ratio and try again.

I am forced by the job I could get to put up with charged parking. Not providing adequate parking for employees and customers is a failure mode.

Aside from the job and travel to special events in cities that likewise fail at basic resource allocation, charged parking makes the area a no-go for me. I'll find most things elsewhere. For special events, the cost of parking counts against the event when making the decision to go. More than a few events became too expensive to do when parking was factored in.

I've also been to events in cities where circumstances forced me to use the hideously unfunny joke that is public transportation. I don't go to those events, or cities, any more.
 
2009-03-22 09:33:54 PM  
Crosshair: Glasgowsfinest: Or even to drive. What a concept!

But it has to be one that costs the same or less to use, and takes about the same amount of time so that takes quite a few methods out of the equation.


Like all Public transportation . .
 
2009-03-22 09:40:45 PM  
stryker4526: GaryPDX: We should force the utopia on these non team players!!. How dare they run away from our awesome taxation.

/Hopey Change!!

You know how I know you're a moron?
This is your precious "privatization" doing this, not the government, you WHARRGARBLing moron.


Enforcing a punitive gov't tax on people for using streets they already paid for obviously has nothing to do with any kind of "privatisation".

Or it would be obvious if you weren't such a farking idiot.
 
2009-03-22 10:21:30 PM  
That's the Chicago way?

/got nuthin
 
2009-03-22 10:42:14 PM  
This is nothing.

Ms. Marin didn't mention the Chicago Skyway lease, nor I believe, a proposed lease on Midway Airport too.

Not to mention Governor-Lite Quinn raising IL state income tax up two-fold. It's like these people have never been introduced to the term, "point of diminishing returns." The concept that one can continue to raise taxes and levies on business and consumers alike, but eventually will hit a point and start to see less revenue because, like in this case, you've priced the consumers out of a voluntary market.

Ever think of maybe spending less? Saving some ? Perhaps stop taking so much for yourselves, assholes ?

Frank N Stein 2009-03-22 01:27:04 PM
Oh, and they're sharpening their pitchforks because they aren't allowed to own guns...


Oh, please. Keep your agenda in check and stay on point, ok ? Because, oh yeah you're right, what Chicago needs is more guns.
 
2009-03-22 11:11:33 PM  
ty stick 2009-03-22 03:00:12 PM
To stay at a hotel in Chicago, its runs about 50.00 per day to park your car.(no in or out privelages). To go to a restaurant in the city it costs about 25.00 to valet park while you eat. Red light cameras are on every street corner to catch people going through on yellow. That costs 100.00 and you will get one or ten of these eventually. The gun laws in Chicago keep its citizenry from protecting themselves, yet the city has one of the highest murder rates in the country(I think the murderers don't pay attention to the gun laws).

Try attending sporting events. I make decent money but I still wont pay 350.00 for a ticket to a Bear game, or 120.00 to see the Blackhawks. Then pay 8.00 per beer and 30.00 to park. Oh and while you are at the game, crews of theives steal all the SUV spare tires.

Chicago has become a wonderful horrible abomination of what a city should be. Its now there primarily to seperate people from their cash and send them packing.

Still it has a great skyline.

Me and my thievin' murderin' brethren will miss your company.

Christ, you're a moron. Red light cameras at EVERY intersection ? Please.

Chicago does have its' problems but being "an abomination of what a city should be" is not one of them. On some days, it can be the best of the best anywhere. Just not in February.

By the way, do really think murderers move to to take advantage of local law ? Because if so, that's a very interesting point of view you've shared with us.
 
2009-03-22 11:44:04 PM  
Lifelong Chicagoan here. Let's play an interesting game. For all the Chi-Farkers here, quick question : out of all the dealings you've with the City of Chicago, how many of those were pleasant? The only one I can think off is when I was given a parking ticket for a handicap spot when I had a temp badge back in college. Photocopied the badge, mailed it in and never heard from them again. Other than that, fark the CoC. Remember, this is your government at work.
 
2009-03-23 02:27:20 AM  
Ah... Chicago. Whenever I go to Chicago, I either park at my girlfriend's mom's house on the South Side by Midway, or I park at the Cumberland Park 'n Ride. I refuse to pay more than $5 to park my car, and I have no problem taking the bus or the L. Chicago is starting to get a bit ridiculous, though. Madison is equally as far away, has better traffic and better parking, has most of the stores I like to shop at, and has lower taxes. It also has cheaper drinks and better beer...
 
2009-03-23 11:25:47 AM  
I work for an apartment finding company and before the hike everyone would just park at the meters. Now with the price jump there is a noticeable amount of empty meters in front of our office. Everyone has either gone to the residential spots during the day or started renting a monthly space that is cheaper than paying the meters.
But Chicago is easy enough to get around on bike and CTA that you can get where you need and avoid the meters pretty easily. I get a kick out of anyone who doesn't want to come to the city b/c parking is too expensive. If you are willing to walk a couple of blocks and can parallel park you can park pretty much for free. If that's too much work for you, well Shaumburg has some lovely parking lots although I'm pretty sure it isn't the same amount of fun and awesome we get here in the city.

/Chicago is the greatest city in the world during the summer.
//It's a godless frozen wasteland during the winter
 
2009-03-23 11:48:43 AM  
7of7 2009-03-22 10:47:28 AM
----------------------------------------

Um, good plan until they um..JACK UP THE PRICES FOR THE MASS COMMUTERS!

Duh.
 
2009-03-23 11:55:00 AM  
MikeVx: I am forced by the job I could get to put up with charged parking. Not providing adequate parking for employees and customers is a failure mode.

Which explains why nobody works in LOOP, right?

I've worked in the LOOP for 13+ years and parking is non-existent or priced obscenely, yet tens of thousands of people pour into the LOOP daily to work.
 
2009-03-23 12:18:04 PM  
3skin 2009-03-22 02:27:02 PM
----------------------------------------------

Because douchebags never do anything wrong. Nothing.
 
2009-03-23 12:32:10 PM  
Needlessly Complicated 2009-03-22 06:00:55 PM
---------------------------

Been there, done that. Hint: reframe the question as "who would want to live in chicago when there's better places to live", then go to the East coast and look up the same sort of websites.

You have Philly, D.C., NY, Boston, Baltimore, etc all within a few hours of each other...in CHI, you have (wait for it) Milwaukee.

And Daley. And uhbama. And Oh!prah. Don't forget all the illegal aliens pulling up next to you near Harlem, and even though there lane ends or there are cars parked on the curb, they still gun it and try to get around you every.damn.time.shiatcago..is just that.
 
2009-03-23 12:33:16 PM  
Oops, that should have been "their" two times.

ARghhhh!
 
2009-03-23 01:56:32 PM  
Jgok:

In any city of decent size, it should be possible to live without a car. The problem is that so many people have been conditioned to believe that they need a car.


In many cities, people do need cars. Especially in cities where the knobs running the joint have driven most of the employers out to far-flung suburbs.

I agree, it'd be great if everyone could get to work using a bus or subway. But the way things are now...
 
2009-03-23 03:35:08 PM  
raerae1980: The city of Glendale, CA did this too. It used to be you could park for free on Brand Blvd up to 9 AM, then after it was a two hour limit but still free. They decided right before x-mas to change this, screwing everybody who works or shops on Brand. Then the parking structures got in on it too and started charging $1/half hour parking. I work at the Borders there and am having to park in the mall's parking structure as it's the only free parking left in Glendale!!! I guess the city didn't take into consideration those that work and don't have the luxury of having their employer pick up the parking tab. Bastards!!! I hate you!!!

THIS!!!fark GLENDALE!

// I haven't been to Charles billiards in weeks.
/// It's impossible to get drunk but not have to move your car every 90 minutes
//// Unless its a DUI conspiracy....
// Slashies
 
2009-03-24 12:09:39 PM  
Frank N Stein: Superjew: Plus, your bike will easily carry several bags of groceries, the dry cleaning, maybe a package or two from the post office and that birthday present for your nephew, you know, all those things which those losers in cars should never purchase or need.

Get the fark over yourself.


Right back atcha, champ. At least I had a point to make.
 
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