I just came here to say that Ashland, Oregon is BEAUTIFUL in May. Went there last year so Hubby could go to the United Bicycle Institute to learn to build a bike frame. He went there two years before to become a licensed bike mechanic. It was the first time I ever saw the Northwest.

Sorry if it's offtopic, but it's true.

As for the story, where do I sign up?

I know a couple people in this church (different branch, not in oregon).

They're wacky, but then all religious people are.

Why not? Native Americans do it with peyote all the time.

That's the stuff that makes you talk to the machine elves.

Sounds like a church I could believe in. At least after drinking a bottle of LSD tea I'd have a legit excuse for seeing the imaginary man in the sky.

The most refreshing part: no more Ashcroft/Gonzalez Justice Department to try and quash this.

Juniper Jupiter: I just came here to say that Ashland, Oregon is BEAUTIFUL in May. Went there last year so Hubby could go to the United Bicycle Institute to learn to build a bike frame. He went there two years before to become a licensed bike mechanic. It was the first time I ever saw the Northwest.

Sorry if it's offtopic, but it's true.

As for the story, where do I sign up?

I went there for the Shakespeare festival back in '99. Still have fond memories.

Praise Jeebus - pass the tea.

DMT is soo soo good... that's all i have to say about that..

Hector Remarkable: That's the stuff that makes you talk to the machine elves.

That sounds like a terrifyingly amazing experience.

As a fully qualified and bonded internet lawyer, I had heard that the peyote decision was further pushed in the 60's with an instant drug based religion and the courts said no. There had not be a historical basis for it.

/After all, the government must control these things. Now excuse me while I get legally wasted on Vodka.

fuzzycuffs: Why not? Native Americans do it with peyote all the time.

This may explain why they thought/think rocks have spirits.

"Hey, Moose Humping...I think that rock is talking to me."

Shrooms are way better.

crispyone: fuzzycuffs: Why not? Native Americans do it with peyote all the time.

This may explain why they thought/think rocks have spirits.

"Hey, Moose Humping...I think that rock is talking to me."

Interesting thing from Wiki:

...A 2005 paper published in Biological Psychiatry outlines research conducted by Dr. John Halpern into peyote. "Psychological and Cognitive Effects of Long-Term Peyote Use Among Native Americans" found that Peyote users scored significantly better than non-users on the "general positive affect" and "psychological well-being" measures of the Rand Mental Health Inventory (RMHI), a standard instrument used to diagnose psychological problems and determine overall mental health...

Makes me wanna hop on board the love train

Interesting thing about the brew, the one plant actually contains the stuff you want. The other plant contains a chemical that keeps your body from breaking the stuff down before it can be absorbed. Without it, it wouldn't matter how much you ingested, it would break down before you absorbed it, so no tripping.

Also there's the fun that it makes lots of people puke and/or shiat themselves. Which tends to end the tripping. However if you manage to not puke or shiat yourself apparently the hallucinations are quite the ride, especially once you do enough ayahuasca to last a while.

Though on the "whoa" tripping scale apparently nothing compares to ibogaine.

WFern: Makes me wanna hop on board the love train

It's thought that some hallucinogens act as a sort of reset mechanism for certain parts of the brain. This is what has various people trying to pursue their use as psychiatric treatments. Though at least in the US good luck getting authorization for any sort of formal trials.

I worked in an office next to the Ashland Co-Op for years. Have you ever tried to draft a letter while dirty hippies were hanging from a tree outside your window, pretending like they knew how to play the bongos?

/First they came for the hippies, and I said nothing
//Then they came for any hippies they might have missed
///I helped by lending them flashlights and giving them foodstuffs

WhyteRaven74: WFern: Makes me wanna hop on board the love train

It's thought that some hallucinogens act as a sort of reset mechanism for certain parts of the brain. This is what has various people trying to pursue their use as psychiatric treatments. Though at least in the US good luck getting authorization for any sort of formal trials.

I get the feeling that if Phizer found a way to slap their logo on it, things would clear up mighty quickly.

I lived in Oregon in the early 80's. Some friendly natives told me about an indigenous species of "Magic" mushrooms called "Liberty Caps." These could be found in pastures under cowpies. I never tried them, but I was told that they were somewhat similar to psilocybin. Our one expedition ended unfortunately. There are few things more humiliating than being chased out of a pasture by a herd of cows. We Jersey boys are tough, but we don't deal well with livestock. Anyway, I was wondering if these people would be allowed to make use of the local ambrosia.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't ayahuasca use reserved for shamen in the Amazon, and related to Candomble?

But hey, if calling themselves the "Brazilian Christian Church" allows them to practice their religion the way it is supposed to be practiced (and keep the fundies off their back in the process), I'm all for it. If they're actually a Christian church, then I hope their practices spread to other churches!

WFern: things would clear up mighty quickly.

They did trials with LSD in the past until LSD was declared something that had no medical benefits at all etc. Even if Pfizer was behind it, there'd be a lot to change and a lot of people to convince. Among those people lots of them in the medical community.

amosguam: I lived in Oregon in the early 80's. Some friendly natives told me about an indigenous species of "Magic" mushrooms called "Liberty Caps." These could be found in pastures under cowpies. I never tried them, but I was told that they were somewhat similar to psilocybin. Our one expedition ended unfortunately. There are few things more humiliating than being chased out of a pasture by a herd of cows. We Jersey boys are tough, but we don't deal well with livestock. Anyway, I was wondering if these people would be allowed to make use of the local ambrosia.

I lived in Portland for 10 years, and though I never had them, I know lots of people who swore by them. One of my friends told me that they grew the best in this field next to a police station, so the shroomers would go at night and pick mushrooms right next to the cops... (I have no idea where this was; I suspect in Beaverton but I don't know for sure) But lots of people grew them in their yards.

WhyteRaven74: WFern: things would clear up mighty quickly.

They did trials with LSD in the past until LSD was declared something that had no medical benefits at all etc. Even if Pfizer was behind it, there'd be a lot to change and a lot of people to convince. Among those people lots of them in the medical community.

What I'm saying is that if Phizer was "behind" it, I doubt it would've been declared as such in the first place.

Goddamn I love Ashland.

The Supreme Court ruled on this practice recently. (new window)

Ayahuasca is some really, really, strong stuff. It basically clears out your system at both ends and then makes you trip balls. If you take it, there's a pretty good chance you'll convince yourself you'd be communicating with the spirit world/Jesus/God/FSM/whatever, too.

WFern: What I'm saying is that if Phizer was "behind" it, I doubt it would've been declared as such in the first place.

Don't forget big time drug companies were behind cocaine and heroin, and that didn't much to keep them from becoming illegal.

mctom: but isn't ayahuasca use reserved for shamen in the Amazon

The shaman do use it, but it's not reserved just for them. Among some groups in the Amazon its use is widespread. They have no cultural inhibitions to its use, so taking it is not much different than going out for a beer is for a westerner.

Outshined_One: It basically clears out your system at both ends and then makes you trip balls.

You only really trip if you can manage to not have it clear you out, cause if it clears you out a lot of it goes out too. And yeah you can say it's strong, but as far as anyone has been able to observe, it carries no long term side effects.

Oregon native here. Ashland is where all the local nutcases live. One in four residents don't vaccinate their children; there was a nudist attending city council meetings; it's a nuclear free zone; more Obama 'hope' posters than actual residents. It's kind of a more northern Berkley.

WhyteRaven74: mctom: but isn't ayahuasca use reserved for shamen in the Amazon

The shaman do use it, but it's not reserved just for them. Among some groups in the Amazon its use is widespread. They have no cultural inhibitions to its use, so taking it is not much different than going out for a beer is for a westerner.

Interesting. Although I'm still surprised to find out that a Christian church is using it-- it reminds me of how Vodou serviteurs in Haiti will tell foreigners that they are Christians (because they are), without mentioning that Christianity fits into their spiritual practice as one (small) piece. Perhaps this church has something similar going on, and puts "Christian" in their name so that people will leave them alone and not call them 'tribal', 'primitive' or 'jungle religion' and try to keep them from their practices.

WhyteRaven74: WFern: What I'm saying is that if Phizer was "behind" it, I doubt it would've been declared as such in the first place.

Don't forget big time drug companies were behind cocaine and heroin, and that didn't much to keep them from becoming illegal...

True enough, though I think there's a massive difference between peyote, for example, versus something as destructive as smack.

Toonol: Oregon native here. Ashland is where all the local nutcases live. One in four residents don't vaccinate their children...

I apologize if that's true, but it sounds sketchy. Source? The rest I couldn't give a damn about.

mctom: amosguam: I lived in Oregon in the early 80's. Some friendly natives told me about an indigenous species of "Magic" mushrooms called "Liberty Caps." These could be found in pastures under cowpies. I never tried them, but I was told that they were somewhat similar to psilocybin. Our one expedition ended unfortunately. There are few things more humiliating than being chased out of a pasture by a herd of cows. We Jersey boys are tough, but we don't deal well with livestock. Anyway, I was wondering if these people would be allowed to make use of the local ambrosia.

I lived in Portland for 10 years, and though I never had them, I know lots of people who swore by them. One of my friends told me that they grew the best in this field next to a police station, so the shroomers would go at night and pick mushrooms right next to the cops... (I have no idea where this was; I suspect in Beaverton but I don't know for sure) But lots of people grew them in their yards.

There was a mushroom scare in Corvallis when a couple died from poisonous mushrooms they picked in the wild. That was followed with a "wild mushrooms are bad" article. In reality the unfortunate couple was looking for the "happy" kind, but got the "not happy" type by accident. The newspaper didn't want to let on to college kids they didn't have to drive to Eugene for the good stuff.

I live an hour or so from there. I guess it's time for a roadtrip.

/see what I did there?

Meatzilla: Jeebus

Should I point out that your image looks like a druggie's fantasy to me?

Meatzilla: As Jesus hanged from the cross, dying in unimaginable pain and
suffering, enormous iron nails pounded through his limbs and
into the wood, he was offered a mixture of vinegar wine and myrrh
oil to ease his pain and suffering. Even then he refused drugs.

Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it. -Mark 15:23

That so-called 'Christian church' is beyond the pale.

Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit
you will recognize them. -Matthew 7:15

If you cannot handle reality, turn to Jesus, not drugs. Jesus is
light, and love, and infinite. Drugs are dark, and hurtful, and
only temporary instant gratification.



For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. -John 3:16

So, this Jesus you speak of...

Can I brew Him in a tea, like in the article, or do I have to take Him intravenously? 'Cause I'm not all about the needles...

Sarcastic_Twit: There was a mushroom scare in Corvallis when a couple died from poisonous mushrooms they picked in the wild. That was followed with a "wild mushrooms are bad" article. In reality the unfortunate couple was looking for the "happy" kind, but got the "not happy" type by accident. The newspaper didn't want to let on to college kids they didn't have to drive to Eugene for the good stuff.

"Death Caps"

I think the tell is that the gills face a different direction? One reason I don't hunt in cow shiat for my good times.

Meatzilla: As Jesus hanged hung from the cross

Carry on.

Meatzilla: Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it. -Mark 15:23

That so-called 'Christian church' is beyond the pale.

Myrrh was used as a painkiller back then dude. Way to miss the historical point.

Meatzilla: That so-called 'Christian church' is beyond the pale.

Well, yeah, they're Brazilian, so they're gonna be a bit less pale than their anglo friends.

It is natural for you to fear the unknown.

So get to know him.

Meatzilla: It is natural for you to fear the unknown.

So get to know himHim.

Geez, do I have to do everything around here? Your sloppiness makes me think you're trolling.

ninjakirby: Meatzilla: Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it. -Mark 15:23

That so-called 'Christian church' is beyond the pale.

Myrrh was used as a painkiller back then dude. Way to miss the historical point.

Jesus refused drugs. That 'Christian Church' wants to take them. And prolifically too it seems since they went to court in order to sidestep the law in order to do so.

Your point needs some clarifying, dude.

At the risk of flashing back into "Old Hippie" mode, isn't the whole point of religion transcending reality? This comfortable "Reality" in which we reside is nothing more than the sum of the data which we accumulate through our limited range of senses. The colors we can't see, the sounds we can't hear, do they cease to exist because we ignore them? "Science" at various times, has told us that the world is flat, disease is caused by "Bad humors," and that non-whites were not-quite-human. These "Facts" were all state-of-the-art science at one time or another and anyone who disagreed was considered a superstitious bumpkin.
Sorry. Ranting. But if someone can chew an herb and step outside, and maybe see beyond the big illusion for a moment... Where's the harm?

mctom: Sarcastic_Twit: There was a mushroom scare in Corvallis when a couple died from poisonous mushrooms they picked in the wild. That was followed with a "wild mushrooms are bad" article. In reality the unfortunate couple was looking for the "happy" kind, but got the "not happy" type by accident. The newspaper didn't want to let on to college kids they didn't have to drive to Eugene for the good stuff.

"Death Caps"

I think the tell is that the gills face a different direction? One reason I don't hunt in cow shiat for my good times.shiattake? You don't say.

From what I remember, unless you know exactly which kind you are picking, no other visual clues can tell you if it's poisonous or not. There are old wives' tales about how to tell, but they're all wrong.

mctom: Meatzilla: It is natural for you to fear the unknown.

So get to know himHim.

Geez, do I have to do everything around here? Your sloppiness makes me think you're trolling.

Guess the fark filter doesn't like mushrooms either.

mctom: Sarcastic_Twit: There was a mushroom scare in Corvallis when a couple died from poisonous mushrooms they picked in the wild. That was followed with a "wild mushrooms are bad" article. In reality the unfortunate couple was looking for the "happy" kind, but got the "not happy" type by accident. The newspaper didn't want to let on to college kids they didn't have to drive to Eugene for the good stuff.

"Death Caps"

I think the tell is that the gills face a different direction? One reason I don't hunt in cow shiat for my good times.

Meatzilla: As Jesus hanged hung from the cross

Carry on.

Shiattake? You don't say.

From what I remember, unless you know exactly which kind you are picking, no other visual clues can tell you if it's poisonous or not. There are old wives' tales about how to tell, but they're all wrong.

Toonol: Oregon native here. Ashland is where all the local nutcases live. One in four residents don't vaccinate their children...

Yes, what a bunch of nuts. How dare they do their own research and make their own decisions about what to inject their children with? Wouldn't it be best if they just meekly bought whatever products the representatives of pharmaceutical corporations command them to?

After all, the only reason that "recommended" childhood vaccines have grown from 4 to dozens in the past 30 years is because there are so many more epidemics of deadly diseases now than there were 3 decades ago. Certainly a huge, publicly traded company wouldn't develop and market new products for something so crass as a profit motive.

I for one am glad to know that the scourge of chickenpox will be lifted from the land, now that everyone must buy a Phizer^TM brand chickenpox vaccine!

Sarcastic_Twit: From what I remember, unless you know exactly which kind you are picking, no other visual clues can tell you if it's poisonous or not. There are old wives' tales about how to tell, but they're all wrong.

Right, from what I remember hearing (from experienced pickers) it had something to do with the gills. But I don't really know, thats just what I remember.

Meatzilla: Jesus refused drugs.

Lets make this modern day: Jesus is being tortured to death in a Bush/Cheney^tm secret prison, and is offered ibuprofin by a red cross worker (who happens to be his cousin, and he refuses.

Meatzilla: Jesus refused drugs. That 'Christian Church' wants to take them. And prolifically too it seems since they went to court in order to sidestep the law in order to do so.

Your point needs some clarifying, dude.

He refused a painkiller during a sacrifice intended to incur the greatest amount of suffering possible.

Christ says nothing about narcotics, but does partake of alcohol, a mind altering substance; alcohol does the same thing as any other chemical messenger - alters brain function.

Did Christ refuse a painkiller? Yes. Why? Because he was intended to suffer.

Did Christ imbibe alcohol? Yes. Why? Cause that's what you do at a party. You only find admonition against drinking in the words of Paul, not Christ.

If you want to worship the words of Paul, go for it, but at least be honest with your golden calf. These Brazilians are.

ninjakirby: If you want to worship the words of Paul, go for it, but at least be honest with your golden calf. These Brazilians are.

QFT. You said exactly what I was trying to put together.

Why is it that most Christians reference the non-Christ parts of the Bible much more frequently than the Christ parts?