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(Detroit Free Press)   Michigan considering high-speed rail. Spiffy tag is for the ability to get away from Detroit at 200 MPH   (freep.com) divider line 88
    More: Spiffy  
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2773 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2009 at 5:12 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-03-17 02:38:52 PM  
Fark you subby. Mandate reconstruction of our cities. Stop this stupid philosophy that you can live wherever you want.
 
2009-03-17 04:16:42 PM  
Cool, will the empty trains go in a 2 mile loop around the Ren Cen at 200MPH?
 
2009-03-17 04:26:32 PM  
blogs.mcall.com
 
2009-03-17 04:54:29 PM  
Spiffy tag is for the ability to get away from Detroit go around Toledo at 200 MPH

latimesblogs.latimes.com
 
2009-03-17 05:17:38 PM  
The elevated rail line would use cars -- built by Detroit Three automakers -- that would use solar energy to power hydrogen batteries.

...that would get stolen within minutes of its installation
 
2009-03-17 05:18:50 PM  
The elevated rail line would use cars -- built by Detroit Three automakers -- that would use solar energy to power hydrogen batteries...

Working design
img84.imageshack.us
 
2009-03-17 05:19:01 PM  
sloppy shoes: Fark you subby. Mandate reconstruction of our cities. Stop this stupid philosophy that you can live wherever you want.

Orly?

I sure as shiat hope you're trolling with that last sentence.
 
2009-03-17 05:20:19 PM  
brookgo: sloppy shoes: Fark you subby. Mandate reconstruction of our cities. Stop this stupid philosophy that you can live wherever you want.

Orly?

I sure as shiat hope you're trolling with that last sentence.


Profile suggests troll.
 
2009-03-17 05:20:50 PM  
What a great idea. Build a rail between two cities that are complete shiatholes.
 
2009-03-17 05:21:23 PM  
brookgo:
I sure as shiat hope you're trolling with that last sentence.


No. Why should you be allowed to live anywhere?
 
2009-03-17 05:22:56 PM  
www.chicagobeachsoccer.com

That is all.
 
2009-03-17 05:23:42 PM  
tvmedia.ign.com
♫♪Monorail Monorail MONORAIL!!
 
2009-03-17 05:23:55 PM  
sloppy shoes: brookgo:
I sure as shiat hope you're trolling with that last sentence.

No. Why should you be allowed to live anywhere?


Why shouldn't I?
 
2009-03-17 05:24:16 PM  
Just to be sure - Paranoid safety mommas whom fears even this:

www.blogcdn.com

They would be okay with this?

www.blogcdn.com

They won't make some bullshiat claims about accident rates and "think of the children!"?
 
2009-03-17 05:24:20 PM  
Great, now they get serious about trains.

Or sort of serious. Why would Detroit be included in this scenario. The thing they should have done years ago is some version of the El that ran from the east side suburbs (say Warren were people work, or used to) to the west (Southfield, Farmington Hills).
 
2009-03-17 05:25:22 PM  
Oops . . . where people work.
 
2009-03-17 05:26:57 PM  
moops: What a great idea. Build a rail between two cities that are complete shiatholes.

Or rebuild the cities to maintain a sustainable lifestyle instead of wasting massive amounts of energy with the suburbs, or we can invest more into alternative energy so the suburbs can maintain themselves after fossil fuels run out.
 
2009-03-17 05:27:55 PM  
sloppy shoes: brookgo:
I sure as shiat hope you're trolling with that last sentence.

No. Why should you be allowed to live anywhere?


Because that's part of the underlying idea of liberty. People came to America during the Cold War because they don't want their government telling them where to live and what job to do.

If you want people to act a certain way, make it economically attractive to do so. Generally, you get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax. So start taxing gasoline and roads into a city (like NYC) and you'll get fewer commuters.
 
2009-03-17 05:31:54 PM  
God, shut up. Why do we insist on kicking these cities going through tough times? I'm so freakin' sick of it. Good for you, you moved to Portland to hang out with a bunch of upper-middle class white kids. Let me give you a ribbon. Why does nobody care that the once glorious American cities -- cities that produced actual products and brought respectable working class lives to their citizens -- why does nobody care that these cities are dying, and that their residents are becoming poor and forgotten?

And why do we care so little about our history? Why do we shrug off the destruction of historical mansions that symbolized Detroit society -- American society of a certain era? Why do we not care that without Toledo we wouldn't have bullet-proof windshields or fiberglass insulation? Why don't we care that without Dayton we wouldn't have flight? Why do we mock the cradle of American civilization and wish it death? Why do we care so little about our workers? It really pissed me off.

Have fun in Denver, asshole.
 
2009-03-17 05:32:19 PM  
Fine, but incorporate it into regional Midwest proposal.

Hub at Chicago with lines out to Minneapolis, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Detroit, and Cincinnatti. Upgrade the Hiawatha line to Milwaukee as well.
 
2009-03-17 05:32:58 PM  
As someone who lives near Ann Arbor and the fact that it is private venture (according to the article), I am all for this.
 
2009-03-17 05:34:36 PM  
Is it odd I'm more inclined for a space elevator than a speed-train connecting coast to coast of the US?
 
2009-03-17 05:37:02 PM  
navyjeff: If you want people to act a certain way, make it economically attractive to do so. Generally, you get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax. So start taxing gasoline and roads into a city (like NYC) and you'll get fewer commuters.

What if we do nothing instead? Because if you subsidize, you need money in order to fund something. How do you get money for subsidies? Well you tax something, then you give that tax money as a subsidy (an incentive) to a company to build something or do something they wouldn't have done without that subsidy. To borrow money from another source and then give it as a subsidy without collecting taxes to be able to pay off that loan is Bush style economics and very, very wrong.
 
2009-03-17 05:37:50 PM  
Spiffy tag is for the ability to get away from Detroit at 200 MPH
It's already possible, spiffy
www.luftfahrt.net
 
2009-03-17 05:38:33 PM  
CrispFlows: Is it odd I'm more inclined for a space elevator than a speed-train connecting coast to coast of the US?

Three breasted alien chicks are teh hotness.
 
2009-03-17 05:42:57 PM  
Why was that rendered in SimCity 2000? Is Detroit so inundated with rust and decay that they forgot the color of grass? I could go on about that, but honestly, what a waste this thing is.
 
2009-03-17 05:43:51 PM  
CrispFlows: Is it odd I'm more inclined for a space elevator than a speed-train connecting coast to coast of the US?

the thing is, good rail networks actually make commerce flow better and make the country money. space elevator is cool and all, but i'm interested in seeing the country invest in stuff that helps us get rich again.
 
2009-03-17 05:44:21 PM  
Spiffy tag is not for this being completely privately funded?
 
2009-03-17 05:45:47 PM  
img147.imageshack.us
 
2009-03-17 05:47:12 PM  
maintenanceguy: As someone who lives near Ann Arbor and the fact that it is private venture (according to the article), I am all for this.

They mention having stops at every interchange along 96, for the Detroit->Lansing rail, but I'd find the Detroit->Ann Arbor rail much more useful, if there's a stop near Plymouth.
 
2009-03-17 05:49:12 PM  
sloppy shoes: brookgo:
I sure as shiat hope you're trolling with that last sentence.

No. Why should you be allowed to live anywhere?


Umm, because this is a free society?
 
2009-03-17 05:49:12 PM  
progmac: God, shut up. Why do we insist on kicking these cities going through tough times? I'm so freakin' sick of it. Good for you, you moved to Portland to hang out with a bunch of upper-middle class white kids. Let me give you a ribbon. Why does nobody care that the once glorious American cities -- cities that produced actual products and brought respectable working class lives to their citizens -- why does nobody care that these cities are dying, and that their residents are becoming poor and forgotten?

People move out of urban areas because of the higher cost of living, noise, dirty conditions, and crime. People don't want to raise their kids in a place where they can't even let them play outside without fear of something terrible happening to them. There's nothing wrong with wanting a nice house in a quiet neighborhood where people have respect for each other and act like civilized human beings. Yes, it would be wonderful if the cities could provide a nice place to raise a family, but a lot of them just don't.

You may be "freakin' sick of it," but that by itself isn't going to fix the problems that drive people away from the cities. Why don't you channel some of that anger into doing something to fix the problems, instead of complaining the people who have the good sense to move away?
 
2009-03-17 05:49:48 PM  
bravo subby...



it's cold in the D
 
2009-03-17 05:52:54 PM  
As long as they make the main hub within those 3 blocks that the blimps always show during the football games. Otherwise your gonna be let out in the middle of the shiat whole that everyone thinks detroit is. Its really nice inside that little area the blimp shows.
Also at least when no one is riding in a detroit made car the white collar workers will still be riding a big 1 1/2 model to get into downtown detroit.
 
2009-03-17 05:53:14 PM  
ekdikeo4

"The line would cost up to $15 million per mile to build. Two lines between Detroit and Lansing and Detroit and Ann Arbor would cost about $2.3 billion."

"Hearings will be held in Detroit, Ann Arbor, Lansing and Grand Rapids. Dates have not been set."

Sounds like Ann Arbor is part of this.
 
2009-03-17 05:55:27 PM  
So how much work is this high speed rail going to bring to the dead state of Michigan?
 
2009-03-17 05:55:30 PM  
Will the last person to leave Detroit please turn out the lights.
 
2009-03-17 06:01:34 PM  
sloppy shoes: brookgo:
I sure as shiat hope you're trolling with that last sentence.

No. Why should you be allowed to live anywhere?


Papers, please!
 
2009-03-17 06:01:45 PM  
Fark Me To Tears: People move out of urban areas because of the higher cost of living, noise, dirty conditions, and crime. People don't want to raise their kids in a place where they can't even let them play outside without fear of something terrible happening to them. There's nothing wrong with wanting a nice house in a quiet neighborhood where people have respect for each other and act like civilized human beings. Yes, it would be wonderful if the cities could provide a nice place to raise a family, but a lot of them just don't.

whats curious to me is that we americans are so bad at it. all we want is the big house in the burbs with the 2 car garage and yard for the kids.

yet in germany, another country i know well and have lived in, people are most interested in living in the centers of town. its interesting to me that the city centers of cincinnati, springfield, dayton oh, are in such shambles; the worst parts of american cities are interestingly enough the parts of them that woudl be the most sought after if the cities were central european.

the "over the rhine" district in cinci, for example...beautiful architecture, walking distance to the business district...and the freakin' scariest 'hood i've seen personally.

i hope in our lifetimes we'll start seeing people looking back to the centers and rejuvenating our city centers.
 
2009-03-17 06:05:16 PM  
FTA: The elevated rail line would use cars -- built by Detroit Three automakers -- that would use solar energy to power hydrogen batteries.

Someone is smoking crack here and is looking for some "research money". Using solar energy to -power- hydrogen -batteries-? Tell me, how does that work? Now, had they said "uses solar energy to disassociate hydrogen from water for use in fuel cells" - that might've been believable. It would still be a very stupid way to get hydrogen; the energy losses are huge and the process is inefficient, and is only worth it if you are powering the system using a nuclear reactor as the power source. It is far better to disassociate hydrogen from water using direct conversion in a solar furnace, then storing the hydrogen in borohydrates (though not in Detroit; the Mojave desert, near Barstow/Daggett, and Boron, makes a much better location, for obvious reasons if you know anything about the area - not too mention the boost it would give to California's economy).

Hell, if they are going to go all experimental on a rail system, they should think about a scaled up version of Douglas Malewicki's SkyTran 2000 (now owned by another company - look it up for more info) instead of this. At least his system his based on relatively normal and proven technology (although an actual system has yet to be built - Phoenix could've been the testbed for it, but they instead chose normal light rail, which while nice, isn't nearly as nice as the SkyTran system promises to be).

Doesn't matter anyway; if it is anywhere in America, nobody will touch this or any other new rail technology with a 10 foot pole, because it might actually work and be efficient, which is something we can't have here.
 
2009-03-17 06:05:55 PM  
ekdikeomaintenanceguy: As someone who lives near Ann Arbor and the fact that it is private venture (according to the article), I am all for this.

They mention having stops at every interchange along 96, for the Detroit->Lansing rail, but I'd find the Detroit->Ann Arbor rail much more useful, if there's a stop near Plymouth.


I don't understand. Who commutes to and from work between Detroit and Ann Arbor? Is the idea just to get people to come into Detroit to spend their entertainment dollars or are they talking about put public transportation in a place where people actually live and work?
 
2009-03-17 06:07:28 PM  
DePaul: I don't understand. Who commutes to and from work between Detroit and Ann Arbor? Is the idea just to get people to come into Detroit to spend their entertainment dollars or are they talking about put public transportation in a place where people actually live and work?

I work in Ann Arbor, live in Plymouth (about half way between AA and Detroit). However, I work at the far end of Ann Arbor, so I doubt that even if there was a stop near Plymouth, it would be all that interesting. sigh.
 
2009-03-17 06:11:55 PM  
navyjeff:
Because that's part of the underlying idea of liberty. People came to America during the Cold War because they don't want their government telling them where to live and what job to do.

If you want people to act a certain way, make it economically attractive to do so. Generally, you get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax. So start taxing gasoline and roads into a city (like NYC) and you'll get fewer commuters.


No. No. No. Liberty does not mean you get whatever you want, whenever you want. Liberty does not mean you can work to obtain anything.


ankmcfly:
Why shouldn't I?



Because humans are far too destructive to give them free reign unabated on the entire planet. The reality is much of what you do has to be regulated and controlled. Further, free ability to live where you want promotes and encourages decay.

Likewise, the government shan't be choosing your job or your specific house. But they should significantly close off much of the United States. Further, they should be able to relocate any corporation to an area better suited for growth, its needs, etc...
 
2009-03-17 06:17:46 PM  
progmac: God, shut up. Why do we insist on kicking these cities going through tough times? I'm so freakin' sick of it. Good for you, you moved to Portland to hang out with a bunch of upper-middle class white kids. Let me give you a ribbon. Why does nobody care that the once glorious American cities -- cities that produced actual products and brought respectable working class lives to their citizens -- why does nobody care that these cities are dying, and that their residents are becoming poor and forgotten?

And why do we care so little about our history? Why do we shrug off the destruction of historical mansions that symbolized Detroit society -- American society of a certain era? Why do we not care that without Toledo we wouldn't have bullet-proof windshields or fiberglass insulation? Why don't we care that without Dayton we wouldn't have flight? Why do we mock the cradle of American civilization and wish it death? Why do we care so little about our workers? It really pissed me off.

Have fun in Denver, asshole.


Because these rust belt cities are no longer producing anything worthwhile enough to artificially prop them up over a sense of nostalgia.
 
2009-03-17 06:18:12 PM  
ekdikeo4: I work in Ann Arbor, live in Plymouth (about half way between AA and Detroit). However, I work at the far end of Ann Arbor, so I doubt that even if there was a stop near Plymouth, it would be all that interesting. sigh.

Yeah, this is what I was getting at earlier. People there seem to live in the burbs and work in the burbs. I used to live in Royal Oak and work in Southfield. So many of the people I knew lived somewhere almost due east of the place where they worked. That's why I mentioned the Chicago train. It would be great to have some kind of system that ran all through the tri-county area. Plymouth to Ann Arbor included.
 
2009-03-17 06:19:55 PM  
DePaul:
I don't understand. Who commutes to and from work between Detroit and Ann Arbor? Is the idea just to get people to come into Detroit to spend their entertainment dollars or are they talking about put public transportation in a place where people actually live and work?


Look at a map and notice all the communities I-94 runs through or nearby. Also consider Detroit Metro Airport.

ekdikeo4:

I work in Ann Arbor, live in Plymouth (about half way between AA and Detroit). However, I work at the far end of Ann Arbor, so I doubt that even if there was a stop near Plymouth, it would be all that interesting. sigh.


The drive between Plymouth and Ann Arbor isn't too bad until you get in Ann Arbor city limits. Taking Plymouth Rd to Ann Arbor is kind of scenic too.
 
2009-03-17 06:20:36 PM  
Well, I don't give a damn for the whole state of Michigan.
 
2009-03-17 06:30:12 PM  
sloppy shoes: navyjeff:
Because that's part of the underlying idea of liberty. People came to America during the Cold War because they don't want their government telling them where to live and what job to do.

If you want people to act a certain way, make it economically attractive to do so. Generally, you get more of what you subsidize and less of what you tax. So start taxing gasoline and roads into a city (like NYC) and you'll get fewer commuters.

No. No. No. Liberty does not mean you get whatever you want, whenever you want. Liberty does not mean you can work to obtain anything.


ankmcfly:
Why shouldn't I?


Because humans are far too destructive to give them free reign unabated on the entire planet. The reality is much of what you do has to be regulated and controlled. Further, free ability to live where you want promotes and encourages decay.

Likewise, the government shan't be choosing your job or your specific house. But they should significantly close off much of the United States. Further, they should be able to relocate any corporation to an area better suited for growth, its needs, etc...


Not buying it. Most companies try to locate where the logistics, tax abatements and resources make sense, whether it be one location or multiple. To dictate what is best for a company is not the government's job. Now I'm all for regulation, environmental responsibility etc. But I'll be damned if the government could move my ice cream stand from Florida to Alaska, (for example only.) The cost of living varies from the hotbeds to the rust belt, which I live in, but if I chose to leave no one could blame me and no one should be able to make me stay.
 
2009-03-17 06:30:28 PM  
That would be handy for when I fly in to Detroit and then go to Lansing to visit people for the holidays... but I'd rather they build something in Michigan that would make it worthwhile for me to MOVE BACK there! You know, something that would actually create JOBS!

I feel like someone in a lifeboat watching poor SS Michigan sink. Sad it's going down. Glad I made it out.
 
2009-03-17 06:30:48 PM  
maintenanceguy: Look at a map and notice all the communities I-94 runs through or nearby. Also consider Detroit Metro Airport.

That's true. Good thing I'm not an urban planner I guess. It's just that every time I hear about proposals like this and I see the name "Detroit" I automatically begin to wonder how it's ever going to get off the ground.

Of course Metro is downriver. Something that runs through there should be included too.
 
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