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(MSNBC)   Congress to AIG: Who taught you how to do this stuff? AIG: YOU, ALRIGHT? I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line
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4000 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Mar 2009 at 7:59 PM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



158 Comments     (+0 »)
 


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2009-03-16 06:04:08 PM  
True. +1
 
2009-03-16 06:08:27 PM  
okay,
I LOLed
 
2009-03-16 06:10:24 PM  
Bwahaha. Best AIG headline of the day.
 
2009-03-16 06:11:24 PM  
Excellent headline. One of my all-time favotrite commercials.

+1
 
2009-03-16 06:23:33 PM  
+1, yeah, its a good headline.
 
2009-03-16 06:23:48 PM  
I like it.
 
2009-03-16 06:29:47 PM  
bene, molto bene
 
2009-03-16 06:54:53 PM  

DeCypher44: One of my all-time favotrite commercials.


The most memorable of all the anti-drug commercials.
 
2009-03-16 06:58:16 PM  
President Clinton signed into law the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which further eased restrictions on derivatives like credit default swaps.

Really? No kidding?

/knew this all along
 
2009-03-16 07:00:33 PM  
Huh. Great job missing the boat on that one, Clinton/Greenspan.

Please note: I am not blaming this whole mess on Clinton. I'm saying that the article makes a good case for deregulation in 2000 being one of the key points that made what happened happen.
 
2009-03-16 07:06:45 PM  
The employment contracts became so complex, with pay packages consisting of stock options and other forms of deferred compensation, largely because of Congress' attempts to control soaring executive salaries. In 1993, Congress limited the tax deduction companies could take for cash payments to $1 million. The result was a cottage industry of lawyers, consultants and advisors who structure even bigger pay packages with creative legal strategies that now make the AIG bonuses difficult to rescind.

Yeah, if Congress hadn't tried to regulate outrageous corporate looting, the looters wouldn't have been forced to use such elaborate schemes to circumvent those regulations.

But strong opposition to the proposal from then-Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan and senior Clinton administration officials sank the idea. On Dec. 21, 2000, President Clinton signed into law the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which further eased restrictions on derivatives like credit default swaps.

Ah, I thought I recognized the Commodity Futures Modernization Act's foul stench when I was brought on board.
 
2009-03-16 07:11:13 PM  

Obdicut: Huh. Great job missing the boat on that one, Clinton/Greenspan.

Please note: I am not blaming this whole mess on Clinton. I'm saying that the article makes a good case for deregulation in 2000 being one of the key points that made what happened happen.


YOU ARE CORRECT!!! The deregulation and the encouragement to make bad loans, were a financial combination from hell. First, you encourage banks to make bad loans, and then you guarantee the loans over and over and over again with government money. What could possibly go wrong?

The government really pisses me off.
 
2009-03-16 07:11:34 PM  
this is your banking insurance.

this is your banking insurance on credit default swaps.

any questions?
 
2009-03-16 07:12:13 PM  

Obdicut: Huh. Great job missing the boat on that one, Clinton/Greenspan.

Please note: I am not blaming this whole mess on Clinton. I'm saying that the article makes a good case for deregulation in 2000 being one of the key points that made what happened happen.


yes, i consider this to be clinton's biggest dropping of the ball.
 
2009-03-16 07:12:50 PM  
well, that and healthcare. boy did he fark up the healthcare initiative.
 
2009-03-16 07:14:38 PM  
But experts in executive compensation say those contracts, written before the government stepped in to bail out AIG, would be difficult, if not impossible, to break. Challenging those contracts might end up costing AIG and the government even more money including legal fees, according to attorney Aliza Herzberg of Olshan Grundman Frome in New York.

"These are contracts from a year and a half ago," she said. "We have to live by them."



Look, if there's one thing the war on drugs and the war on terror taught us, it's that laws can be ignored so long as you scare people first. so apply those lessons to contract law and the AIG mess and get'r done already!
 
2009-03-16 07:21:41 PM  
So who made off with all the money that AIG had to pay out?
 
2009-03-16 07:27:25 PM  

fuzzwell:
YOU ARE CORRECT!!! The deregulation and the encouragement to make bad loans, were a financial combination from hell. First, you encourage banks to make bad loans, and then you guarantee the loans over and over and over again with government money. What could possibly go wrong?

The government really pisses me off.


The government didn't necessarily encourage these companies to make bad loans. They did it all by themselves because it was profitable.
 
2009-03-16 07:27:52 PM  

Weaver95: Look, if there's one thing the war on drugs and the war on terror taught us, it's that laws can be ignored so long as you scare people first. so apply those lessons to contract law and the AIG mess and get'r done already!


tell that to the UAW who had to renegotiate their contracts. it's not unheard of for contracts to be renegotiated under severe conditions. i think AIG is under severe conditions.
 
2009-03-16 07:30:20 PM  

sloppy shoes: The government didn't necessarily encourage these companies to make bad loans. They did it all by themselves because it was profitable.


not to excuse the bankers at all, but that is sort of like getting mad at an untrained puppy for peeing on your carpet. you know he's gonna do it cause he doesn't know any better.
 
2009-03-16 07:30:55 PM  

burndtdan:
tell that to the UAW who had to renegotiate their contracts. it's not unheard of for contracts to be renegotiated under severe conditions. i think AIG is under severe conditions.



VOID the contracts. Inform everyone in the financial services industry that they will work as needed to fix the problem they created. That is the penalty of failure.
 
2009-03-16 07:32:38 PM  

burndtdan:
not to excuse the bankers at all, but that is sort of like getting mad at an untrained puppy for peeing on your carpet. you know he's gonna do it cause he doesn't know any better.


Okay, yes, obviously regulation was needed. But the government didn't "push bad loans," as the original poster stated. Companies made foolish loans on foolish terms because it was profitable. Not because of the CRA or any other garbage.

/but you already know that.
 
2009-03-16 07:34:38 PM  

burndtdan: Weaver95: Look, if there's one thing the war on drugs and the war on terror taught us, it's that laws can be ignored so long as you scare people first. so apply those lessons to contract law and the AIG mess and get'r done already!

tell that to the UAW who had to renegotiate their contracts. it's not unheard of for contracts to be renegotiated under severe conditions. i think AIG is under severe conditions.


interesting that AIG isn't even considering renegotiating, isn't it?
 
2009-03-16 07:34:49 PM  

sloppy shoes: Okay, yes, obviously regulation was needed. But the government didn't "push bad loans," as the original poster stated. Companies made foolish loans on foolish terms because it was profitable. Not because of the CRA or any other garbage.


And I'd add "because it was profitable in the short term".
 
2009-03-16 07:36:39 PM  

gigdaddy: So who made off with all the money that AIG had to pay out?


good question.
 
2009-03-16 07:42:15 PM  

Obdicut:
And I'd add "because it was profitable in the short term".


I'm pretty sure America doesn't even think the long term exists anymore. We are just short 1 line affirmations or disapprovals of one another. We are Twitter. One giant, nonsensical gossip machine in the giant think tank of humanity. America has no more filters. We are just the constant amalgamation of thought evolution. We think without thinking.

/I reserve the right to concede that this is just a very cynical, short sighted criticism.
 
2009-03-16 07:45:16 PM  

sloppy shoes: Obdicut:
And I'd add "because it was profitable in the short term".

I'm pretty sure America doesn't even think the long term exists anymore. We are just short 1 line affirmations or disapprovals of one another. We are Twitter. One giant, nonsensical gossip machine in the giant think tank of humanity. America has no more filters. We are just the constant amalgamation of thought evolution. We think without thinking.

/I reserve the right to concede that this is just a very cynical, short sighted criticism.


that's about half the country. About a third is completely indifferent to anything and oblivious to the world outside the borders of their home town. And the rest have a vested interest in keeping everyone ignorant, confused and/or off balance.
 
2009-03-16 07:46:18 PM  

sloppy shoes: I'm pretty sure America doesn't even think the long term exists anymore. We are just short 1 line affirmations or disapprovals of one another. We are Twitter. One giant, nonsensical gossip machine in the giant think tank of humanity. America has no more filters. We are just the constant amalgamation of thought evolution. We think without thinking.

/I reserve the right to concede that this is just a very cynical, short sighted criticism.


Heh.

I think that the business community has swung very, very far to one extreme, and that regulation and a cultural shift need to happen. I'm seeing signs the regulation will happen; signs the cultural shift will happen are still murky.
 
2009-03-16 07:48:58 PM  
Congressmen who are corrupt... create companies which are corrupt.
 
2009-03-16 07:50:12 PM  

Obdicut: I think that the business community has swung very, very far to one extreme, and that regulation and a cultural shift need to happen. I'm seeing signs the regulation will happen; signs the cultural shift will happen are still murky.


think it through. If we continue to tax the rest of the country and give vast sums of money to a small group of 'power players' - what is the inevitable result of that policy? Historically speaking it's happened before. Maybe not in THIS country, but in others.
 
2009-03-16 07:52:51 PM  

burndtdan: Obdicut: Huh. Great job missing the boat on that one, Clinton/Greenspan.

Please note: I am not blaming this whole mess on Clinton. I'm saying that the article makes a good case for deregulation in 2000 being one of the key points that made what happened happen.

yes, i consider this to be clinton's biggest dropping of the ball.

The "Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000" (H.R. 5660) was introduced in the House on December 14, 2000 by Rep. Thomas W. Ewing (R-IL) and cosponsored by Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R-VA) Rep. Larry Combest (R-TX) Rep. John J. LaFalce (D-NY) Rep. Jim Leach (R-IA) and never debated in the House.[2]

The companion bill (S.3283) was introduced in the Senate on December 15, 2000 (The last day before Christmas holiday) by Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN) and cosponsored by Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (R-IL) Sen. Phil Gramm (R-TX) Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) Sen. Thomas Harkin (D-IA) Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD) and never debated in the Senate.

The Republican leadership of the House incorporated "The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000(H.R. 5660)" by reference, as Section 1(a)(7), in a long and complex conference report to the 11,000 page long "2000 omnibus budget bill"

(A few of the usual suspects bolded)

Taking no blame away from President Clinton, this was hardball congressional shenanigans at its sleaziest. On the House side it was hidden in a massive spending bill the day before Congress went on Christmas vacation, and never debated. It didn't even appear in the House bill at all, but linked in by the conference committee right before the whole shebang went to the White House. On the senate side, it was introduced, passed (no doubt in the middle of a flurry of routine congressional business) with "unanimous consent" meaning not even a voice vote, let alone a role call of the minimal quorum of Senators still in Washington who showed up that day.
 
2009-03-16 07:54:37 PM  

Weaver95: burndtdan: Weaver95: Look, if there's one thing the war on drugs and the war on terror taught us, it's that laws can be ignored so long as you scare people first. so apply those lessons to contract law and the AIG mess and get'r done already!

tell that to the UAW who had to renegotiate their contracts. it's not unheard of for contracts to be renegotiated under severe conditions. i think AIG is under severe conditions.

interesting that AIG isn't even considering renegotiating, isn't it?


i wouldn't say "interesting" is the word i'd use. but i do think they felt they'd get away with it. now comes when we find out if they will.
 
2009-03-16 07:55:55 PM  

Weaver95: think it through. If we continue to tax the rest of the country and give vast sums of money to a small group of 'power players' - what is the inevitable result of that policy? Historically speaking it's happened before. Maybe not in THIS country, but in others.


I'm sorry, I don't even know where to begin with that. Do you really feel that the current situation can be summed up as "The rest of the country is being taxed and the money is being given to a small group of power players"?
 
2009-03-16 07:57:34 PM  
Then congress says: No you didn't, you're doing it wrong!
 
2009-03-16 07:59:01 PM  

Obdicut: I'm sorry, I don't even know where to begin with that. Do you really feel that the current situation can be summed up as "The rest of the country is being taxed and the money is being given to a small group of power players"?


you mean you don't see it that way at all?

AIG executives are certainly a small group of people. The company got a huge bailout (with OUR tax dollars) and gave themselves pay raises and bonus checks. Other TARP companies have made similar moves, just not as loudly.

taxpayer bailouts, executive compensation. draining public coffers to pay private executives. If we continue, what will be the end result?
 
2009-03-16 07:59:17 PM  

Weaver95: gigdaddy: So who made off with all the money that AIG had to pay out?

good question.


The fact that this hasn't been touched upon by MSM leads me to believe that if we find the answer to this question, we find those who knew what was taking place... and we can rape them... or something.
 
2009-03-16 08:00:20 PM  
This is a quality headline.
 
2009-03-16 08:00:57 PM  

Weaver95: taxpayer bailouts, executive compensation. draining public coffers to pay private executives. If we continue, what will be the end result?


i always thought i'd make a good peasant.
 
2009-03-16 08:01:01 PM  

burndtdan: i wouldn't say "interesting" is the word i'd use. but i do think they felt they'd get away with it. now comes when we find out if they will.


Oh I think it's a done deal. Nobody in D.C. has enough balls to do anything about it.

i'm just wondering if/when we'll hit the breaking point. I suppose it depends on how long the unemployment funds hold out.
 
2009-03-16 08:02:37 PM  

Obdicut: Huh. Great job missing the boat on that one, Clinton/Greenspan.

Please note: I am not blaming this whole mess on Clinton. I'm saying that the article makes a good case for deregulation in 2000 being one of the key points that made what happened happen.


Oh no, Clinton deserves some of the blame, no doubt. The funny thing is that it was Clinton's being too CONSERVATIVE that was the problem, not his liberal tendencies.

So, conservatives, yes, you are right, Clinton made a mistake and it's partially responsible for this mess (much moreso than Barney Frank): He agreed with you too much.
 
2009-03-16 08:03:19 PM  

burndtdan: Weaver95: taxpayer bailouts, executive compensation. draining public coffers to pay private executives. If we continue, what will be the end result?

i always thought i'd make a good peasant.


we haven't reached any sort of breaking point yet, but its a disturbing trend.
 
2009-03-16 08:03:55 PM  

burndtdan:
i always thought i'd make a good peasant.


Your handle is apropos.
 
2009-03-16 08:03:58 PM  
Keep in mind these are the same people who are busy 'fixing' the problem. God help us all.
 
2009-03-16 08:04:36 PM  

fuzzwell: Obdicut: Huh. Great job missing the boat on that one, Clinton/Greenspan.

Please note: I am not blaming this whole mess on Clinton. I'm saying that the article makes a good case for deregulation in 2000 being one of the key points that made what happened happen.

YOU ARE CORRECT!!! The deregulation and the encouragement to make bad loans, were a financial combination from hell. First, you encourage banks to make bad loans, and then you guarantee the loans over and over and over again with government money. What could possibly go wrong?

The government really pisses me off.


You're wrong. The banks needed no encouragement to make bad loans nor government money to insure them. They did it often and willingly and companies like AIG lined up to insure them. The "encouraged" loans are just a small segment of the bad loans made.
 
2009-03-16 08:05:16 PM  

Weaver95: we haven't reached any sort of breaking point yet, but its a disturbing trend.


there are some who are more or less calling for a dual class society directly.

no representation without taxation. (new window)
 
2009-03-16 08:05:33 PM  
If we had let them go bankrupt, the contracts would have been voided anyway. If we're now the majority stockholder, then we need to demand renegotiation of the contracts as the price of staying out of bankruptcy.

And we fire every prick who stuck their hand out for a bonus after running the company into the ground. Send them out the door with a letter of recommendation that says:

To Whom It May Concern:

[Subject name here] worked for us from [date to date].

Their service did not result in any activity that could be conclusively proven in a court of law as "stealing".

Yours,
AIG "All Your 401k Are Belong To Us" Personnel Dept.
 
2009-03-16 08:05:58 PM  
I have to admit - i'm pleasantly surprised that we haven't had massive civil unrest over incidents like this one. If we haven't started rioting in the streets over AIG's asinine behavior it means there's hope for us yet.
 
2009-03-16 08:08:15 PM  
I still say:

Stop the bonuses and let them file lawsuits.

Line the plaintiffs up against the nearest wall, and let the jury have a look.

:-)

This ain't rocket science, man.

BANG yer dead.
 
2009-03-16 08:08:40 PM  

burndtdan: Weaver95: we haven't reached any sort of breaking point yet, but its a disturbing trend.

there are some who are more or less calling for a dual class society directly.

no representation without taxation. (new window)


interesting.
 
2009-03-16 08:11:33 PM  
latimesblogs.latimes.comView Full Size

LOLWUT?
 
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