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(My San Antonio)   HOA is about to foreclose 84 homes in one neighborhood for not paying dues. One home that was about to be foreclosed on had a fine less than $300 dollars   (mysanantonio.com ) divider line 256
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14625 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2009 at 10:19 AM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-03-16 11:17:54 AM  
"One home that was about to be foreclosed on had a fine less than $300 dollars"

Then F%^&%@! pay it...
 
2009-03-16 11:19:11 AM  

asmodeus224: Yada yada yada HOA suck

You bought a home that is part of a HOA...you are an idiot...idiots tend to do stupid things like that...idiots also don't like to read complicated things...things like contracts...contracts that spell out that they face foreclosure if they don't pay HOA fees...yea, my heart, it bleeds for these people.


Go fark yourself. I have a solution for those people, pay your dues or if you can't afford to pay dues, don't purchase a home that is a part of a HOA.
 
2009-03-16 11:19:34 AM  
I live in a townhouse community with an HOA. I've never heard from them about anything, and the only contact we've had is when I called to complain about a skunk that was tearing up our garbage weekly(animal control wouldn't help w/no rabies, and the private company needed HOA approval to put traps on properties other than ours). They were pleasant.

They keep our streets plowed in the winter, maintain the pool and tennis courts, arrange trash pickup. I've got no complaints. We let our grass grow too long sometimes, never get flak for it. My HOA is just peachy.
 
2009-03-16 11:20:14 AM  
Step 1. Stop paying dues to your HOA on your $750,000 2 bed, 1 bath McMansion.

Step 2. HOA forcloses, then sells your home at auction to a someone who is working for you or yourself for $50,000.

Step 3. Profit?
 
2009-03-16 11:20:24 AM  

idrow: I just don't understand why anyone would buy a house with a HOA.


Because it pretty much guarantees that my neighbors can't suck, even if they want to suck. They can't paint their house cotton-candy pink. They can't leave their crappy plastic toys in the yard. They have to mow their grass. They can't build that 4-story water tower structure in the backyard. Etc etc, you get the picture.

People need to stop thinking of it as Us versus Them. I can't promise it's the same everywhere, but in my neighborhood, we homeowners ARE the HOA. Home Owner's Association - get it? I am a part of "they", and I vote and have a voice on all issues. I can get as involved as I want, or just pay my dues and let the board take care of things. Our HOA is very cool and does a good job. I understand that HOAs aren't for everyone, but that's your choice. Just understand that some of us prefer it that way, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
2009-03-16 11:21:47 AM  

SchlingFocker: How in the fark does an HOA "foreclose" on a home?

They have nothing to do with the loan between the bank and the homeowner.

They can put a lien on the home, sure. But, foreclosure? How in the fark is that even possible?


Foreclosure is the way to enforce the lien. There's no point in having a lien without the threat of foreclosure to back it up.

SchlingFocker: FredaDeStilleto: and it seems like the homeowners may have given the HOA that power when they purchased property in that development. They probably signed a HOA contract without reading it.

I wonder what bank makes loans knowing they could have the collateral for their loan yanked away from them....

Either way, it seems like they're using a howitzer to take out a housefly. Last I checked, a court can garnish wages to pay judgments.


Not in Texas - no wage garnishment except for child support. And most likely none of these homeowners have any non-exempt property under the Texas Constitution that would satisfy the liens.
 
2009-03-16 11:22:11 AM  
I meant to add - having said that, I think that THIS particular HOA is doing their homeowners a great disservice by threatening to foreclose on so many homes. It is their job to maintain property values (that is the whole point, in fact), and foreclosing on homeowners who sound like they have some legitimate gripes about how the HOA is doing their job is cutting off their nose to spite their face. If I were a homeowner there, I'd be pretty pissed, and I'd do whatever I could to change the way things were being handled, including running for the board myself.
 
2009-03-16 11:23:01 AM  
The HOA is in a Catch 22, they are responsible to the other property owners. If a HOA is "insolvent" or carrying too large a bad debt line in thier account no one in that HOA can sell their home. We have a 52 unit complex in my town that no one can get financing on right now because of the financial problems of the HOA. The have rules too and if they don't follow them , everyone loses.
 
2009-03-16 11:26:07 AM  
I understand that if your home is part of a HOA and you want to sell, you're contractually obliged to pass on HOA membership to the new owner. What would happen if you refused to do that, if the new contract made no mention of any HOA whatsoever?
 
2009-03-16 11:26:12 AM  

Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: Off topic a bit. There is a subdivision near here named Morning Woods. Has a nice bricked entrance with the name mounted on the bricks. Only thing is, someone has stolen the "s" off "Woods". It's been that way for awhile now.


I live near a road called Haven Drive. I wondered where that extra S on the sign had come from. Now I know.
 
2009-03-16 11:27:08 AM  

logieal: Step 1. Stop paying dues to your HOA on your $750,000 2 bed, 1 bath McMansion.

Step 2. HOA forcloses, then sells your home at auction to a someone who is working for you or yourself for $50,000.

Step 3. Profit?



Step 1 1/2. Someone else sees bigger profits and wins your former house at the auction.

Step 2. THEY profit

Step 3. YOU LOSE.
 
2009-03-16 11:30:47 AM  

Komplex: Sometimes you have to shoot yourself in the foot to save yourself.
If the delinquent fees are keeping the HOA from meeting the legally required maintenance requirements, then without any consequences for the delinquent homeowners, other dues-paying homeowners will stop.

I'm sure the HOA would rather garnish wages, lock the owners out of the house or some other less radical option than a foreclosure, but that's the only tool they have to work with.


How about a lawsuit? Suing the people and forcing them to pay seems far less extreme (and oh so American!). You should NOT be able to take someone's home away from them over a few hundred dollars in unpaid fees. I would normally join the chorus of people saying that stupid people should not sign contracts they don't understand and then whine when it goes bad, but this is just wrong. A group of petty, unregulated, self-important neighbors, accountable to nobody, should absolutely NOT have the power to take your home.
 
2009-03-16 11:32:03 AM  

bumfuzzled: Foreclosure is the way to enforce the lien. There's no point in having a lien without the threat of foreclosure to back it up.


Lots of HOAs don't have the ability to foreclose. They can put liens in place for nonpayment. This seems to work elsewhere.

Again, what bank gives loans knowing another entity can yank their collateral?


Not in Texas - no wage garnishment except for child support. And most likely none of these homeowners have any non-exempt property under the Texas Constitution that would satisfy the liens.


Didn't know that. Thanks :)

Aside from all this, when an HOA has 80+ families refusing to pay dues because the HOA isn't honoring their end of the contract, there is a serious problem with the HOA.

This needs to go to court so all the facts can be brought out.
 
2009-03-16 11:32:18 AM  
Damn I love not living in an HOA community. I will *never* move into one. My brother lives in Celebration, Florida, and they are the Nazis of HOA's.

I enjoy being able to build a shop behind my house. I enjoy being able to park not only one, but even two cars in my front driveway. I can paint my house any color I want (yellow w/ white trim). I can put up any light fixture I want. I can work on my motorcycle in the morning and leave the garage door open. I can have a backyard party with my friends and not be bothered for parking too many cars in the neighborhood. And of course, if my wife wants a pair of yard flamingos up front, no one cares.

www.steveallwine.com

I live in a weird little 12-house neighborhood that is in the unincorporated county, completely surrounded by protected daffodil farmland in every direction. There's a county BMX park up the road, next to the river. It's an awesome place to live. Most of the folks have lived there for decades and we're all quite close. Most everyone keeps their homes/yards immaculate, but no one cares if one of us didn't mow their lawn for over a week, or if someone's house needs a new paint job. It's their business.

Unfortunately development is creeping in around the area, and now I get to look at a boring, uninspiring HOA community on the hilltops. Bleh. At least the farmland is protected.

www.steveallwine.com
My view.
 
2009-03-16 11:34:37 AM  
84 properties? That's not a default. That's a de facto revolt.
 
2009-03-16 11:37:16 AM  
I'll never understand how we as a nation have gotten here, how HOAs have been allowed by people and the courts to have so much power and legal force. I can understand how an HOA is useful and valuable to some home owners, but how an HOA can become so empowered as to forclose on homes for unpaid fees... ? Well, it's dispicable and wrong, but these days what isn't so utterly fuzzed up when it comes to the government and legal system.

/ oiled and slippery slope
// steep, steep slope indeed
/// sliding faster into the abyss is the US
 
2009-03-16 11:38:27 AM  

karmachameleon: idrow: I just don't understand why anyone would buy a house with a HOA.

Because it pretty much guarantees that my neighbors can't suck, even if they want to suck. They can't paint their house cotton-candy pink. They can't leave their crappy plastic toys in the yard. They have to mow their grass. They can't build that 4-story water tower structure in the backyard. Etc etc, you get the picture.

People need to stop thinking of it as Us versus Them. I can't promise it's the same everywhere, but in my neighborhood, we homeowners ARE the HOA. Home Owner's Association - get it? I am a part of "they", and I vote and have a voice on all issues. I can get as involved as I want, or just pay my dues and let the board take care of things. Our HOA is very cool and does a good job. I understand that HOAs aren't for everyone, but that's your choice. Just understand that some of us prefer it that way, and there's nothing wrong with that.


I totally agree with you. The HOA and their threats of fines are what keep my neighbors from letting their weeds get out of control and if that's what it takes for them to maintain their yard then I am all for it.
 
2009-03-16 11:38:36 AM  

mod3072: How about a lawsuit? Suing the people and forcing them to pay seems far less extreme (and oh so American!). You should NOT be able to take someone's home away from them over a few hundred dollars in unpaid fees. I would normally join the chorus of people saying that stupid people should not sign contracts they don't understand and then whine when it goes bad, but this is just wrong. A group of petty, unregulated, self-important neighbors, accountable to nobody, should absolutely NOT have the power to take your home.


Even if you went to small claims court, the process is not particularly helpful. First, you serve the person, which may or may not be difficult. Second, you take them to court. In the best case scenario, they don't show up and you win by default. Third, they don't pay, because they haven't paid yet so why would they now? Fourth, you go back to court and ask to attach assets. The court will probably agree, and attach the house. If, thereafter, the person doesn't pony up money quickly, you seize the house, which is substantially the same as foreclosure.

You end where you begin.
 
2009-03-16 11:41:30 AM  

40below: Good. People need to learn to live by the rules. Rules are what separate us from animals. And the Irish New Yorkers.


FTFY
 
2009-03-16 11:43:30 AM  
Cocktail party.

Molotovs for everyone.
 
2009-03-16 11:45:00 AM  
We live in a neighborhood with a HOA. We all share a community pool, common area and bathrooms. Our dues are 250.00 a year. Inside our neighborhood it is pretty nice with everyone keeping up their property. Outside our neighborhood it's redneck Bubba and his trailer and prized possessions around it. Picture National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. I'm sure somewhere around the corner the shiatter's full. I could take some pics, but I don't want you to be scarred for life.
 
2009-03-16 11:45:02 AM  

drunkjournal: "$300" is pronounced "three hundred dollars"
"$300 dollars" is pronounced "three hundred dollars dollars"


So that means they're $600 behind, right?
 
2009-03-16 11:46:15 AM  

idrow: I just don't understand why anyone would buy a house with a HOA.


I live in Atlanta and I'm looking to buy a townhome. It seems all condos and townhomes have HOAs attached to them. I'd rather not have anything to do with HOAs, but I'm willing to do so if the HOA fees are really low.

I just don't want to buy a house right now and that seems the only way to not end up with an HOA.

but this is good info to know. I'll definitely be asking questions like if I get behind on my HOA fees, can the HOA foreclose my home. It's about asking the right questions and reading the fine print before you sign. Look, buying a house is time consuming, so why in the hell would you not read what you are signing. A few extra minutes can save you a headache later on.
 
2009-03-16 11:48:05 AM  

40below: Good. People need to learn to live by the rules. Rules are what separate us from animals. And the Irish.


So close to St. Patrick's Day too...
 
2009-03-16 11:51:22 AM  
I would never want to live in a neighborhood like that but I can see why busybody douchebags would, it's good that there is somewhere that they can go to live...
 
2009-03-16 11:53:20 AM  

karmachameleon: Because it pretty much guarantees that my neighbors can't suck, even if they want to suck. They can't paint their house cotton-candy pink. They can't leave their crappy plastic toys in the yard. They have to mow their grass. They can't build that 4-story water tower structure in the backyard. Etc etc, you get the picture.


Which is a great thing, except their getting to be more and more like the government. They claim to be there for the people, but they seem to be more intent on screwing people over when the chance arises and if you want to speak with someone, well, give up all hope on that.

I've lived in a reasonable HOA neighborhood, but it seems that there are more and more "Just fork over the money and STFU because my watch says 7:02 and the trash cans are supposed to be in by 7:00 p.m." types who are more interested in making money wherever they can as opposed to creating a pleasant neighborhood.
 
2009-03-16 11:54:40 AM  

Hetfield: I understand that if your home is part of a HOA and you want to sell, you're contractually obliged to pass on HOA membership to the new owner. What would happen if you refused to do that, if the new contract made no mention of any HOA whatsoever?


Probably the property contract would be invalid and when the buyer's title-search company looked up the records they would find that the proposed sale was invalid. The buyer would then be able to sue the seller for breach of contract and recover any damages allowed under the contract or simply accept a revised contract with the HOA clause and some consideration.


As to why people buy houses/condos with HOAs, it is either to take care of communal property (pool, clubhouse, lawns, roads, in this case a park and flowers) or so that they can tell other people what they can do on their property (color, style, maintenance, fixtures, etc.) in order to 'maintain property values.' In some cases, people don't have a lot of choice as a lot of places have HOAs. It appears that this HOA was still run by the developer. Too bad for those homeowners.

I don't personally need a community pool, etc. or have much interest in what other people do with their homes, so no HOA for me. Fortunately a friendly neighbor has a pool, there is a town rec. center with a pool right down the street, and people in the area generally appear to take care of their property, so it is all good.
 
2009-03-16 11:55:11 AM  
This is why you buy a gun and scream "GET OFF MY LAWN".
 
2009-03-16 11:57:06 AM  

Nuuu: Even if you went to small claims court, the process is not particularly helpful. First, you serve the person, which may or may not be difficult. Second, you take them to court. In the best case scenario, they don't show up and you win by default. Third, they don't pay, because they haven't paid yet so why would they now? Fourth, you go back to court and ask to attach assets. The court will probably agree, and attach the house. If, thereafter, the person doesn't pony up money quickly, you seize the house, which is substantially the same as foreclosure.

You end where you begin.


I see your point, but it still seems like there should be a better way to reclaim those fees than foreclosure. Maybe there currently isn't, but there should be. The idea of giving that kind of authority to a few homeowners arbitrarily elected to a local board gives me the willies. Even the evil credit card companies won't take your home if you don't pay. Maybe they could just trash your credit and have someone make annoying phone calls to your house and work every 10 minutes until you cough it up?
 
2009-03-16 12:01:19 PM  
I will have no part of this HOA cocksuckery.
 
2009-03-16 12:03:41 PM  
Wow! It made it past the filters. I think we have a new catchphrase.
 
2009-03-16 12:08:02 PM  
$130 a year and people are not paying? More power to the HOA then. Stupid homeowners.
 
2009-03-16 12:09:25 PM  
HOA's are pure, unadulterated evil.
 
2009-03-16 12:09:32 PM  

SchlingFocker: bumfuzzled: Foreclosure is the way to enforce the lien. There's no point in having a lien without the threat of foreclosure to back it up.

Lots of HOAs don't have the ability to foreclose. They can put liens in place for nonpayment. This seems to work elsewhere.

Again, what bank gives loans knowing another entity can yank their collateral?


Your comment started me thinking about what's going on in this situation. What bank gives loans like these? All of them - the bank's lien has a higher priority, which means that they have to be notified in the event of foreclosure so there's very little risk in making these loans. That also means that the banks will most likely be paying off these liens to keep the bank's security interest in place.

I think what's happening is that the HOA is trying to get the banks to pay the owners' fees, and the banks will turn around and capitalize the fees they paid. After all, why wouldn't the bank pay a few hundred dollars to keep the many thousands they lent safe?
 
2009-03-16 12:12:25 PM  
Foreclosing vs. going to small-claims court is silly.

People do need to realize though, that paying HOA or condo fees is not optional. It isn't conditional on you getting whatever services, etc. you might dispute, or anything else. If you own the property, you HAVE to pay the fee.

FEES ARE NOT CONDITIONAL upon anything. You own it, you pay it. period.
 
2009-03-16 12:15:28 PM  
It's just amazing how so many Americans happily embrace small-scale fascism.
 
2009-03-16 12:18:29 PM  

LMark: It's just amazing how so many Americans happily embrace small-scale fascism.


Grow up. They signed a contract, their own choice, dumbass.
 
2009-03-16 12:19:50 PM  

eddyatwork: I never understood why a HOA can even exist in the so called "land of the free".


Same reason these work:

compulsory education of your children
credit unions
contracts of all sorts

and these are just exampels startign with "c"

"social contract"
 
2009-03-16 12:21:31 PM  
"Most communities have covenants that give a homeowners association the right to sue property owners, assess penalty fees and even foreclose if dues aren't paid."

Why would anyone even sign one of these things? HOAs are NOT legal entities, they cannot pass laws and they cannot MAKE a homeowner do anything. They have no legal authourity if you don't sign the damn piece of paper.

Look, if I decide to buy a house somewhere, I'm just going to buy it. Then when the local HOA comes to me and says "you have to sign this agreement or you can't live here", I tell them no thank you, I'll coordinate with the city myself for services. When they press the issue, I tell them to fark off. When they press the issue even further, I sue the crap out of THEM!. Trust me, this works in many places, as I've already done it three times and won. It is not difficult at all to take the tactics of an HOA that literally force people through intimidation and coersion to sign an agreement, and paint that organization as a racketeering front to a jury, not unlike the Mafia . Like I said, I've done it three times.

This is America, and here a person has domain over their own land. As long as you refust to sign up with an HOA and you handle your city cervices yourself, they absolutely CANNOT tell you what to do with or on your own land.

And for all of you pussies who say "well you HAVE to sign with them in order to live in the neighborhood" are spineless idiots who don't have the guts to stand up for your own rights. You'd rather just pay them a little blood money each month than make them understand what individual freedom means.
 
2009-03-16 12:24:07 PM  

logieal: Step 1. Stop paying dues to your HOA on your $750,000 2 bed, 1 bath McMansion.

Step 2. HOA forcloses, then sells your home at auction to a someone who is working for you or yourself for $50,000.

Step 3. Profit?


Nope. the $750k loan doesn't go away. Just means that you're paying an additional $50k for your house.
 
2009-03-16 12:24:25 PM  

lisarenee3505: "Most communities have covenants that give a homeowners association the right to sue property owners, assess penalty fees and even foreclose if dues aren't paid."

Why would anyone even sign one of these things? HOAs are NOT legal entities, they cannot pass laws and they cannot MAKE a homeowner do anything. They have no legal authourity if you don't sign the damn piece of paper.

Look, if I decide to buy a house somewhere, I'm just going to buy it. Then when the local HOA comes to me and says "you have to sign this agreement or you can't live here", I tell them no thank you, I'll coordinate with the city myself for services. When they press the issue, I tell them to fark off. When they press the issue even further, I sue the crap out of THEM!. Trust me, this works in many places, as I've already done it three times and won. It is not difficult at all to take the tactics of an HOA that literally force people through intimidation and coersion to sign an agreement, and paint that organization as a racketeering front to a jury, not unlike the Mafia . Like I said, I've done it three times.

This is America, and here a person has domain over their own land. As long as you refust to sign up with an HOA and you handle your city cervices yourself, they absolutely CANNOT tell you what to do with or on your own land.

And for all of you pussies who say "well you HAVE to sign with them in order to live in the neighborhood" are spineless idiots who don't have the guts to stand up for your own rights. You'd rather just pay them a little blood money each month than make them understand what individual freedom means.


This is all well and good, but entering the HOA was a condition of home purchase. As is the case in every other instance I have ever heard of.
 
2009-03-16 12:28:37 PM  
At the point where it's virtually impossible to purchase a house without an HOA, buy software without accepting terms, doing any meaningful business activity without signing away your rights - there is no freedom. Freedom is slowly being outsourced to the hands of those more "able" to determine what's right for you.
 
2009-03-16 12:29:36 PM  

jbrooks544: Foreclosing vs. going to small-claims court is silly.

People do need to realize though, that paying HOA or condo fees is not optional. It isn't conditional on you getting whatever services, etc. you might dispute, or anything else. If you own the property, you HAVE to pay the fee.

FEES ARE NOT CONDITIONAL upon anything. You own it, you pay it. period.


Oh please... if you own the property you don't have to pay shiat because guess what, YOU OWN THE PROPERTY! Its yours and no one can force you to pay extra for something you already own, just as no one can take that property away from you because you refused to let them extort money from you.
 
2009-03-16 12:31:59 PM  
My sister-in-law just bought a house in an HOA. She did read the contract, but she said it made no sense, contradicting itself in several places. IMHO, HOA's totally suck. That's what you need, like the government doesn't control enough of your life, cede still more control to your HOA.
 
2009-03-16 12:34:10 PM  

40below: Good. People need to learn to live by the rules. Rules are what separate us from animals. And the Irish.


Hold thy tongue, swine, lest it be severed from thy mouth.
 
2009-03-16 12:34:46 PM  
Dear Submitter:

I am sorry to learn of your recent brain injury. After you learn how to walk and speak again, perhaps you should review the law of contracts. An agreement between a homeowner and the HOA is one of these (contracts), which was entered into willingly and knowingly by both parties.

TA
 
2009-03-16 12:34:56 PM  
flashfry:This is all well and good, but entering the HOA was a condition of home purchase. As is the case in every other instance I have ever heard of.

See and that's where you are wrong. That is one of the underhanded tricks they use that is COMPLETELY ILLEGAL, but they count on most people not being aware of that. When they come across someone who wants to fight them, someone who demonstrates real knowledge of the law, they back down very quickly.

Like I said, Ive done thig three times. I'll be damned if some group of strangers is going to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own property.
 
2009-03-16 12:36:34 PM  

lisarenee3505: jbrooks544: Foreclosing vs. going to small-claims court is silly.

People do need to realize though, that paying HOA or condo fees is not optional. It isn't conditional on you getting whatever services, etc. you might dispute, or anything else. If you own the property, you HAVE to pay the fee.

FEES ARE NOT CONDITIONAL upon anything. You own it, you pay it. period.

Oh please... if you own the property you don't have to pay shiat because guess what, YOU OWN THE PROPERTY! Its yours and no one can force you to pay extra for something you already own, just as no one can take that property away from you because you refused to let them extort money from you.


Property taxes
 
2009-03-16 12:36:44 PM  

Liliac_Hill: My sister-in-law just bought a house in an HOA. She did read the contract, but she said it made no sense, contradicting itself in several places.


She's a bright one, isn't she?
 
2009-03-16 12:36:48 PM  

lisarenee3505: "Most communities have covenants that give a homeowners association the right to sue property owners, assess penalty fees and even foreclose if dues aren't paid."

Why would anyone even sign one of these things? HOAs are NOT legal entities, they cannot pass laws and they cannot MAKE a homeowner do anything. They have no legal authourity if you don't sign the damn piece of paper.

Look, if I decide to buy a house somewhere, I'm just going to buy it. Then when the local HOA comes to me and says "you have to sign this agreement or you can't live here", I tell them no thank you, I'll coordinate with the city myself for services. When they press the issue, I tell them to fark off. When they press the issue even further, I sue the crap out of THEM!. Trust me, this works in many places, as I've already done it three times and won. It is not difficult at all to take the tactics of an HOA that literally force people through intimidation and coersion to sign an agreement, and paint that organization as a racketeering front to a jury, not unlike the Mafia . Like I said, I've done it three times.

This is America, and here a person has domain over their own land. As long as you refust to sign up with an HOA and you handle your city cervices yourself, they absolutely CANNOT tell you what to do with or on your own land.

And for all of you pussies who say "well you HAVE to sign with them in order to live in the neighborhood" are spineless idiots who don't have the guts to stand up for your own rights. You'd rather just pay them a little blood money each month than make them understand what individual freedom means.


I don't think it's that easy. From what I heard the HOA contract is written into the deed. The person you are buying from is the HOA, they own the home and you buy it from them.
 
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