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(Huffington Post)   Former Nazi camp guard living in Ohio charged with 29,000 counts of accessory to murder. Oh c'mon, isn't living in Ohio punishment enough?   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 179
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13034 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2009 at 3:15 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-03-12 10:33:15 AM
"We hope that the process can be expedited to ensure that this Holocaust perpetrator will finally be appropriately punished," Efraim Zuroff, the top Nazi hunter at Israel's Simon Wiesenthal Center Zuroff told the AP by phone from Jerusalem. "We're on our way to a victory for justice today."

Nice job there Efraim. Doesn't sound like a lot of job security though, finding the last of the septuagenarians and octogenarians to go after. Bust into their houses and knock them out of their wheelchairs. Sounds almost like the work of the SS.
 
2009-03-12 10:37:23 AM
GreenSun: If they can't prove he was a true killer of jews, should not be allowed to punish him just to save their own face. Most nazi soldiers were forced to become one, and there are lots of cases where they just avoided killing people when they were not ordered to. Not every nazi was evil, only those who truly believed the extinction of a certain type of people are.

There are also those who were complicit in the murders, those who knew it was wrong. Degree Absolute: Vern: As far as 'getting these cases in a predominately christian country' then you're wrong. We're getting these cases because we're butt buddies with Israel, one of the few they have left. The Jews don't believe in Hell, they want retribution on earth, which is why they jump on it. They know he won't be punished in the after life, but they just want to keep riding the oppressed band-wagon. I'm not anti-jew, just anti-zionist, and all those who appease them because they've been hurt in the past. Such as the US and Britain magically giving them their own state in an area that was already a state.

Pray tell what state existed in the area before Israel? The assertion that any country "magically" gave Israel anything is complete bullshiat. The Jews fought for their land in 1948, 1967, 1974 and all the way to present. No one has fought their wars for them (unlike the "Palestinians").


Yeah, all those US fighter jets and weaponry had nothing to do with it.

/did I mention you're a scumbag?
 
2009-03-12 10:42:03 AM
In Ohio's defense, they haven't had one of their rivers combust in, like decades.
 
2009-03-12 10:44:00 AM
Madbassist1: If he aint guilty in Isreal, it's pretty safe to say that you are FOS

He was found guilty, dickface.

Link (new window)

That was really hard to find. Teh GIS. Try it sometime.

/You suck.
 
2009-03-12 10:44:23 AM
weak66: So let me see here...you're giving me the choice between beeing shot at and a good chance I'll be killed OR I can stay here and guard the prisoners where there's no chance I'll be harmed. I'll take option 2

That's about it, except that in the nationalistic atmosphere of the time and place, people choosing option 2 were viewed by their peers as contemptible cowards. For most, especially members of the elite SS, that's a powerful motivator to not choose option 2. To their credit, most didn't.
 
2009-03-12 10:45:07 AM
Burr: Yes, Ohio sucks...stay away from Ohio, it is a terrible place filled with Nazi's, bears, the Amish, and thier shifty Mennonite brethren, and all kinds of natural disasters like earthquakes, forest fires, hurricanes, and the occasional volcano.

So stay far away, as a matter of fact, never visit either, it is a terrible place.

/that should keep the idiots away
//Where do you live that is so superior submitard?


Obviously, you didn't grow up in Scioto county. The best view of that damn place is in my rear view mirror.
 
2009-03-12 10:45:45 AM
thinks_on_feet: Madbassist1: If he aint guilty in Isreal, it's pretty safe to say that you are FOS

He was found guilty, dickface.

Link (new window)

That was really hard to find. Teh GIS. Try it sometime.

/You suck.


He was found guilty, and then exonerated, dickface.
FTFA you linked "His conviction for crimes against humanity was later overturned by Israel's highest court by a finding of a reasonable doubt."
 
2009-03-12 10:47:11 AM
Interesting, all he can say is he is too sick to travel.

Not, 'I'm not guilty'.
 
2009-03-12 10:52:42 AM
Lt. Cheese Weasel: Interesting, all he can say is he is too sick to travel.

Not, 'I'm not guilty'.


It'd be interesting to see transcripts. I could see where, after 32 years of prosecution/persecution, he'd be damned tired of reiterating innocence of first being Ivan Grozny, and now being accessory to 29,000 murders. How do you counter those charges? It isn't like they have surveillance tape. Does simply having been a guard at a camp automatically make one guilt of murder by association? If yes, are there any mitigating circumstances?
 
2009-03-12 10:59:34 AM
PoopStain: thinks_on_feet: I grew up in Ohio and Ivan "the Terrible" Marchenko (changed his name to John Demjanjuk) was news 30 years ago.

He had been captured as a Russian soldier and became a Nazi by choice. Joined the SS. Was accused by eye witnesses of operating a gas chamber and some of his murders were with his bare hands, of strangling and beating people to death.

He had a lot of popular support from the community where he lived and raised a family.

Fark him. He was a Nazi.

Thank God idiots like you don't get to decide who live or die, then:

He emigrated to the U.S. in 1952 and gained citizenship in 1958 but was extradited to Israel in 1986 after the U.S. Justice Department said it believed he was a sadistic Nazi guard at the Treblinka death camp known as Ivan the Terrible.

Demjanjuk spent seven years in custody before the Israeli high court received evidence that the Nazi guard was in fact another Ukrainian, and freed him.

Since he's already spent 7 years in jail based on faulty evidence I'd like to see what they have on him before they go to the gallows.

Then they let him go because he wasn't, in fact, Ivan the Terrible.

RTFA!


No, actually, the let him out on a technicality, saying they couldn't try him twice on the same charges.

He changed his name.

Wow, why am I not surprised FARK would harbor a metric assload of Nazi apologists.

There were eyewitnesses that he ran the diesel engine that murdered 20,000 people. There were also eyewitnesses that he beat and strangled people to death.

I remember the interviews on TV when I was in the 8th and 9th grade, with survivors.

These people were not making it up. They recognized him.

/FARK... the last refuge of right-wing fundie turds and Nazi apologists.
 
2009-03-12 11:01:12 AM
Cleveland rocks. Cleveland rocks. Cleveland rocks. Cleveland rocks. CLEVELAND ROCKS!

Link (new window)
 
2009-03-12 11:04:17 AM
Burr: Yes, Ohio sucks...stay away from Ohio, it is a terrible place filled with Nazi's, bears, the Amish, and thier shifty Mennonite brethren, and all kinds of natural disasters like earthquakes, forest fires, hurricanes, and the occasional volcano.

So stay far away, as a matter of fact, never visit either, it is a terrible place.

/that should keep the idiots away
//Where do you live that is so superior submitard?


I just returned yesterday from a weeklong trip to Maryland - the place where I was born and raised.

I couldn't wait to get back to Ohio. Maryland is an anthill with the most rude and idiotic people imaginable - hell, I'm living proof of that. Coming out of the harbor tunnel on my way to White Marsh, some idiot driver almost ran me into orange barrels instead of letting me merge into traffic - and it was a cop.

I couldn't wait to get back to Ohio where there are not too many people, everything is spread out, it's very affordable, and as a rule (where obvious exceptions exist), most people are very nice.

So yeah, stay the fark out of Ohio.
 
2009-03-12 11:12:47 AM
Witchydiva: thinks_on_feet: Madbassist1: If he aint guilty in Isreal, it's pretty safe to say that you are FOS

He was found guilty, dickface.

Link (new window)

That was really hard to find. Teh GIS. Try it sometime.

/You suck.

He was found guilty, and then exonerated, dickface.
FTFA you linked "His conviction for crimes against humanity was later overturned by Israel's highest court by a finding of a reasonable doubt."


He wasn't exactly "exonerated," you apologist scum.

Most of the eyewitnesses had died by the time Israel held his appeal hearing, and enough doubt was introduced by Soviet government BS aimed at character assassination rather than jurisprudence that even the Israeli Supreme Court had to, against their stated desire, overturn his conviction rather than do the only other thing they were allowed to do, which was execute him.

You people are farking morons if you think being a blood-oath member of the SS is like being a garden-variety Nazi Party member.

All Germans > All Wehrmacht Soldiers > All Nazi Party Members > All SS Members.

/If the majority of apologists here are also Buckeyes, I am getting a vague recollection of why I left the State.
 
2009-03-12 11:20:22 AM
Nanan: How the fark can a solder be charged with war crimes or whatnot? If he is even charged then I would like to see every member past and present of the US military, every member of congress, senate, the president(G.W.B.) et el. be charged with mass murder, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.

But not Obama!
 
2009-03-12 11:36:34 AM
Deez Nutz: 29,000 murders? He must get up pretty early in the morning. What's his day planner look like?

Death
Death
Death
Lunch
Death


afternoon tea?
 
2009-03-12 11:39:26 AM
thinks_on_feet: He wasn't exactly "exonerated," you apologist scum.

Most of the eyewitnesses had died by the time Israel held his appeal hearing, and enough doubt was introduced by Soviet government BS aimed at character assassination rather than jurisprudence that even the Israeli Supreme Court had to, against their stated desire, overturn his conviction rather than do the only other thing they were allowed to do, which was execute him.

You people are farking morons if you think being a blood-oath member of the SS is like being a garden-variety Nazi Party member.

All Germans > All Wehrmacht Soldiers > All Nazi Party Members > All SS Members.

/If the majority of apologists here are also Buckeyes, I am getting a vague recollection of why I left the State.



Tell you what - why don't you come back when you can have a reasonable discussion. Obviously, I don't know this man personally, and I wasn't there. I can say the same about you. So before you go off and make blanket statements and judgements, chill. I have not ever been an apologist for the Nazi party. I have known people who were german soldiers (including one who went through the Maginot Line with his Panzer division). I know they did not fight for the Nazis because they were proud of the violence and brutality, or even that they believed in what they fought for. But they still fought.

Would you judge all american military prison guards by the folks who used to run Abu Graib? There is no excuse for what they did, and the things were horrible - but you can't say that every person who worked at Abu Graib was a monster.
 
2009-03-12 11:52:56 AM
His son, John Demjanjuk Jr., said in an e-mail to The Associated Press that his father is innocent, and is suffering from a blood disorder and acute kidney failure that makes him unfit for international travel.

Isn't that what they all say?
 
2009-03-12 11:54:22 AM
Please don't tell me it's the Jews prosecuting this guy for something that happened over 60 years ago, was his job at the time, and was legal under local law when he did it?

Yikes.
 
2009-03-12 11:58:20 AM
Gladys_Mensch: To anyone interested in the Holocaust, I highly recommend this

Thanks for this. Always interested in Holocaust studies.
 
2009-03-12 12:00:18 PM
Not only does he live in Ohio, he lives in Cleveland. That is cruel and unusual punishment in and of itself.

But um yeah, seriously, If an Israeli court ruled he was not the droid they seeked, either he is a Jedi, or he is innocent. If they had any reason to believe he was the guard they said he was they would have nailed his ass. I don't know of any other accused Nazi's getting let go by them.
 
2009-03-12 12:01:54 PM
Not to defend Nazis, but what's the Simon Wiesenthal Center gonna do once all these guys are dead? And why aren't they prosecuting Jews who were concentration camp helpers too?

/Persecution; it's an equal opportunity employer.
 
2009-03-12 12:06:06 PM
Burr: Yes, Ohio sucks...stay away from Ohio, it is a terrible place filled with Nazi's, bears, the Amish, and thier shifty Mennonite brethren, and all kinds of natural disasters like earthquakes, forest fires, hurricanes, and the occasional volcano.

So stay far away, as a matter of fact, never visit either, it is a terrible place.

/that should keep the idiots away
//Where do you live that is so superior submitard?



/agrees whole-heartedly
 
2009-03-12 12:08:35 PM
www.mckellen.com
 
2009-03-12 12:16:53 PM
And the news was released on Purim. Oy vey! Vadda coincidence!
 
2009-03-12 12:17:03 PM
MajorityWhip: My Grandfather died at Auschwitz.

/He fell from a guard tower


I'm going to hell for LOLing at that.
 
2009-03-12 12:35:10 PM
this guy couldnt possibly have been any more of a SOB than lynndie england. he also took orders. but i guess some people are worth more than others..
 
2009-03-12 12:38:01 PM
merkey88: How many members of the KKK were charged with murder/rape/brutality well after the fact of the Civil Rights Movement?

Joining the KKK was voluntary. Those who joined the KKK *wanted* to join.

In Nazi Gernmany, you got drafted. If you refused, you and/or your family were imprisoned at best, or executed at worst.

There is a big world of difference here. Going after high-ranking Nazi officers is one thing. Going after a prison guard who was forced into it is quite another.
 
2009-03-12 12:51:23 PM
Witchydiva: thinks_on_feet: He wasn't exactly "exonerated," you apologist scum.

Most of the eyewitnesses had died by the time Israel held his appeal hearing, and enough doubt was introduced by Soviet government BS aimed at character assassination rather than jurisprudence that even the Israeli Supreme Court had to, against their stated desire, overturn his conviction rather than do the only other thing they were allowed to do, which was execute him.

You people are farking morons if you think being a blood-oath member of the SS is like being a garden-variety Nazi Party member.

All Germans > All Wehrmacht Soldiers > All Nazi Party Members > All SS Members.

/If the majority of apologists here are also Buckeyes, I am getting a vague recollection of why I left the State.


Tell you what - why don't you come back when you can have a reasonable discussion. Obviously, I don't know this man personally, and I wasn't there. I can say the same about you. So before you go off and make blanket statements and judgements, chill. I have not ever been an apologist for the Nazi party. I have known people who were german soldiers (including one who went through the Maginot Line with his Panzer division). I know they did not fight for the Nazis because they were proud of the violence and brutality, or even that they believed in what they fought for. But they still fought.

Would you judge all american military prison guards by the folks who used to run Abu Graib? There is no excuse for what they did, and the things were horrible - but you can't say that every person who worked at Abu Graib was a monster.


I accept your retraction and apology.

Your specious argument was FAIL from the beginning. We are not talkinga about German army soldiers of the era (most of whom sucked). We are not really even talking about Nazis (who all sucked). We're talking about the worst form of Nazi and that's the SS.

Bringing Abu Graib into this is sophistry. There obviously were good soldiers at Abu Graib, otherwise we wouldn't all know about it with photographic evidence, to boot... and the guys who told?

They pretty much all got the boot, themselves.

Can you produce one story where an SS member turned in evidence that convicted other SS soldiers? No. They swore a blood oath. Demjanjuk sported (and later removed) his SS blood group tattoo.

These were animals. Their message was hate and destruction of a way of life that didn't meet their standards of racial purity. They are indefensible and John Demjanjuk was one of them.

He was found convicted, later released on a technicality, was not tried twice for technical reasons, and his life is ruined and should only get worse for what he did. He could have been honorable and died in battle for the Soviet cause, or in defiance of oppression, but he chose freely to join the SS and murder 20,000 people by operating a diesel generator that pumped a gas chamber full of carbon monoxide.

He later worked for Ford, as a diesel engine mechanic. His fallback position, I suppose.

Demjanjuk could have chosen to die a patriot and a hero. He chose to live as vermin and hoped to outrun death and raise a family to atone for his actions. But you can't outrun your own death, it always finds you and when you devastate the lives of others it can rarely be rectified by good behavior later.

He should have let his death find him in 1942.
 
2009-03-12 12:59:22 PM
Ahh the irony, only in a few decades will the jewish based community be charged for the atrocities they commit agaisnt human rights in today's modern times.
 
2009-03-12 01:30:55 PM
Vern: As far as 'getting these cases in a predominately christian country' then you're wrong. We're getting these cases because we're butt buddies with Israel, one of the few they have left. The Jews don't believe in Hell, they want retribution on earth, which is why they jump on it. They know he won't be punished in the after life, but they just want to keep riding the oppressed band-wagon. I'm not anti-jew, just anti-zionist, and all those who appease them because they've been hurt in the past. Such as the US and Britain magically giving them their own state in an area that was already a state.

/Newsletter.
//Subscribe I will
 
2009-03-12 01:32:03 PM
thinks_on_feet: I accept your retraction and apology.

Fark. You. Go put words into someone else's mouth.

9/10 for catching me, be sure it won't happen again
 
2009-03-12 01:35:09 PM
TappingTheVein: Vern: The Jews don't believe in Hell, they want retribution on earth, which is why they jump on it. They know he won't be punished in the after life, but they just want to keep riding the oppressed band-wagon


And you don't hate jews, you just hate zionists.
Right..


I basically have the same opinion. I didn't before I left the states to travel, but since then I've changed my mind. I'll take the time to explain it to you while drinking a beer it you want, and I'll even bring some jewish friends.
 
2009-03-12 01:38:39 PM
We are not amused.

www.bushywood.com
 
2009-03-12 01:40:08 PM
"meh"
 
2009-03-12 01:46:26 PM
Heinrich Mueller (General with the Gestapo) is the highest ranking Nazi never officially confirmed dead(body found) or captured.

His body was not with the bodies of Martin Bormann or the other guy he was traveling with, meaning he could have escaped.

He's like 109 if he's still alive.
 
2009-03-12 02:08:28 PM
Vern: It doesn't sound like he helped at all with the actual final solution. He was a young man who joined the German army, and his duty was to guard the area he was posted to.
I'm sure he saw the sickening conditions the prisoners were held in, but it was his duty to his country to guard the camp. I don't think he was at all responsible for the decisions made far over his head, and I don't think he should be held accountable for them after all this time.
The most important thing about the Nuremberg trials was that they showed that in a modern court of laws, the leaders could be held responsible for the orders that their under officers and soldiers carried out. We've already had the Nuremberg trials, Hitler is dead, Himmler is dead, Goering is dead, Goebbels is dead, Mengele is dead, Eichmann is dead. At this point it would be like saying a police officer who worked the front desk at a prison is guilty if they executed an innocent man in the back.
If the man can be proved to actually killing prisoners without a shadow of a doubt, in that they can prove he actually shot someone, beat them to death, etc... then yes, he should be prosecuted. From the story, it sounds like he was a low level guard without any idea of the big picture. He had a hand in enforcing a great evil, but was oblivious, and since we have already established that the true horror of the Holocaust came from the top echelons of the German government and many German officials from that era; either legitimately innocent, or those who weren't so innocent but had information we needed, have been forgiven, there's no need to pursue him.


Service in the death camps were completely voluntary. He spent his life working and living, after assisting in the murder of twenty-nine thousand human beings. fark him, and fark you for defending them.
 
2009-03-12 02:25:27 PM
WAAAAH! We can't track down Nazis now, they're old! And were they really that bad? Also, THE JOOS!


Seriously, fark all the Nazi apologists here. I'm honestly shocked at the depravity of this site for the first time in a long time. I realize that some of the people here are trolls, but the sheer volume of nonsense is sickening.
 
2009-03-12 02:36:56 PM
Since a lot of people can't be bothered to look up the word apologist to make sure they are using it in proper context, I took the liberty of doing so for you. From wiktionary:
"Noun
apologist (plural apologists)

One who makes an apology.
One who speaks or writes in defense of a faith, a cause, or an institution."

I don't think I've read a single person defending naziism in any way, shape or form.

Also, guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt - that is a thing that your own life may depend on, should someone point at you during a lineup (mistakenly or otherwise).
 
2009-03-12 02:47:44 PM
If the Jews had him and decided "this is not the droid we seek" he is either innocent or a Jedi.

Test his midichlorian levels and if its normal let him go.
 
2009-03-12 02:54:51 PM
i300.photobucket.com
 
2009-03-12 03:01:52 PM
Brennan-Monster: WAAAAH! We can't track down Nazis now, they're old! And were they really that bad? Also, THE JOOS!


Seriously, fark all the Nazi apologists here. I'm honestly shocked at the depravity of this site for the first time in a long time. I realize that some of the people here are trolls, but the sheer volume of nonsense is sickening.


this is exploiting ur victim status to put somebody you're not sure is guilty in jail. you have no problem with that?
 
2009-03-12 03:06:39 PM
Meanwhile all the Nazi scientists got moved into NASA and other US operations and the corporations who made the Gas still run your world.

Let's go after the smaller officers to cover that up shall we.
The people will feel something good has occurred.

IBM'S punch card computer need not number everyone anymore-
Your cellphone signal will do just fine thanks.

Snore.
 
2009-03-12 03:12:41 PM
Thinks_on_feet: Can you produce one story where an SS member turned in evidence that convicted other SS soldiers? No. They swore a blood oath. Demjanjuk sported (and later removed) his SS blood group tattoo.

Kurt Gerstein. Link (new window)

But if you've ever actually read Gerstein's confession, and did the math, you'd find he was a real dolt. Gerstein was a mining engineer, and was attending medical school before the war, so you would think that he would have known a little bit about calculating cubic footage and carbon monoxide poisoning. The story he told is laughable, so either he was a total moron, or he was coerced and intentionally exaggerated to make his accusers look like fools.

Thinks_on_feet: ...he chose freely to join the SS and murder 20,000 people by operating a diesel generator that pumped a gas chamber full of carbon monoxide.

What blows my mind is how monumentally STUPID those Nazi's must have been. I mean, if you're trying to kill people with carbon monoxide, diesel exhaust would be a VERY poor choice - even if it came from a tank or submarine motor. The CO is the result of incomplete combustion, and unlike gasoline engines, diesels are very efficient at combustion, producing only 10% the CO of gasoline powered motors. Link (new window)

Any gas powered engine or even burning charcoal would have been many times more efficient for producing the desired results. Germany was arguably the most technologically advanced nation in the world at that time. Why would they be so STUPID to have used a "mass murder machine" that would have been so damned inefficient? I guess we're lucky that Demjanjuk was using a diesel engine - otherwise he could have killed 10 times as many people.

Check out the following:

"Lastly, an extensive literature review produced no scientifically reported cases of fatal CO poisoning attributed to diesel fuel exhaust" Link (new window)

Stupid Nazis inventing killing machines that barely work. LOL.
 
2009-03-12 03:15:23 PM
I'm not demanding he be put in jail. Who is "exploiting" his own status here exactly? It's a German court which has indicted him, so I guess they think they have enough evidence to proceed with a trial. The problem is people here who say "oh, he's old, so it doesn't matter," "well, the Jews are always about revenge (what? no Jews are even involved in what the article describes)," "he was forced to be a guard (even though he is Ukrainian and an untermensch and there is no evidence for that claim whatsoever)", and "most Germans were just following orders so they're not to blame (which, if we learned anything from WWII, I thought that we agreed that this wasn't a defense)".

He was exonerated on appeal due to conflicting evidence in a complicated case. I don't want to see him punished because of what he was accused of doing. I want a conviction or an exoneration. It would have been better if justice had been instant but if this is the best the world can do, so be it.
 
2009-03-12 03:16:37 PM
newton: Meanwhile all the Nazi scientists got moved into NASA and other US operations and the corporations who made the Gas still run your world......Snore.

I get a kick when people who drive a BMW or Mercedes try to get high-and-mighty.
 
2009-03-12 03:31:40 PM
emjaysea: Yeah, all those US fighter jets and weaponry had nothing to do with it.

/did I mention you're a scumbag?


Did Americans fly those planes? Did Americans shoot those weapons? No? Then shut the fark up.

/did I mention you gobble cocks?
 
2009-03-12 03:35:28 PM
Brennan-Monster: He was exonerated on appeal due to conflicting evidence in a complicated case. I don't want to see him punished because of what he was accused of doing. I want a conviction or an exoneration. It would have been better if justice had been instant but if this is the best the world can do, so be it.

How many times do you want him to be exonerated? Are you a fan of double-jeopardy?

From Wikipedia: After Demjanjuk's acquital, the Israeli Attorney General decided to release him rather than to pursue charges of committing crimes at Sobibor. Ten petitions against the decision were made to the Supreme Court. On August 18, 1993, the court rejected the petitions on the grounds that (1) the principle of double jeopardy would be infringed, (2) that new charges would be unreasonable given the seriousness of those he had been acquitted of, (3) that conviction on the new charges would be unlikely, and (4) that Demjanjuk was extradited form the United Staes specifically to stand trial for offenses attributed to Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka, and not for other alternative charges.[8]

Demjanjuk was released to return to the United States. In 1993, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Demjanjuk was a victim of prosecutorial misconduct, as federal prosecutors had deliberately withheld evidence, and his US citizenship was restored.
Link (new window)

He'll never live to see the end of a trial, and if the US extradites him, it will be in violation double-jeopardy prohibitions.

Jews? Revenge? Funny that the story was released on Purim, don't you think?
 
2009-03-12 05:18:16 PM
Yes, I think we can all agree that repeatedly getting off on technicalities is the real meaning of justice. In any case I'm not a lawyer or a judge and I'm not condemning or praising this guy. I don't know what he did or did not do. I don't know if what's being proposed now is in fact double jeopardy.

I want justice. That's all. Obviously if he really is innocent a grave mistake would be made by hounding him now: what's to be done, firstly, is for a judge to decide based on evidence presented whether to extradite him. Undoubtedly this is going to be a difficult decision, and I'm glad I'm not the one making it.

However, a number of people in this thread don't seem to agree with me. They want to turn this into some sort of angle to decry Jews and preemptively declare his innocence with no real proof.

Now, I agree he must be presumed innocent, but that's not what's been said. Instead it's been a whole bunch of excuses for the worst, or at the very least one of the worst, collective crimes ever committed, on the assumption that he WAS indeed a concentration camp guard, a bunch of other bullshiat which I already outlined, or, in your case, just embarrassing implied holocaust denial.
 
2009-03-12 05:20:53 PM
Let me go back and acknowledge that prosecutorial misconduct is not a technicality, but it's certainly a barrier to justice.
 
2009-03-12 05:37:17 PM
Dedmon: Vern: It doesn't sound ....ation we needed, have been forgiven, there's no need to pursue him.

Service in the death camps were completely voluntary. He spent his life working and living, after assisting in the murder of twenty-nine thousand human beings. fark him, and fark you for defending them.


Sounds to me like you dont understand how war works. Nobody was taking the jews during WWII - antisemitism was hardly a german creation. Jews were turned away from nearly every port - are the port authorities complicit with the nazi death camps? to an extent i think they are.

If you volunteer for a position, do you always know what it entails? and how would it look if a soldier were to resign from his station due to "ethical qualms". Yeah - they would take that well.

I have no doubt in my mind that our side had unethical killings. But we won. But those nazis had families to. Can there ever be true justice after war?
 
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