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(Science Daily)   Brain scans reveal that Christians are completely unaware of their own errors, but completely aware of yours   (sciencedaily.com) divider line 643
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8008 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Mar 2009 at 11:14 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-03-04 08:48:47 PM
What confirms that test subject is a true believer?
 
2009-03-04 09:03:43 PM
If you could reason with Christians there would be far less Christians.
 
2009-03-04 09:18:29 PM
Great headline, but not what the study shows. It just shows that people who believe in God are calmer. I can't get to the study, but the article makes it seem as though people were tested on pretty simple tasks, in which being flustered would increase errors. So, calmer people would make fewer mistakes.

I'd love to read the study, and not a report about it.
 
2009-03-04 09:22:08 PM
img399.imageshack.us

Do as we say, not as we do.
 
2009-03-04 09:23:20 PM
Hubert Sumlin: Great headline, but not what the study shows. It just shows that people who believe in God are calmer. I can't get to the study, but the article makes it seem as though people were tested on pretty simple tasks, in which being flustered would increase errors. So, calmer people would make fewer mistakes.

I'd love to read the study, and not a report about it.


Your rong. COMpletlly rong.
 
2009-03-04 09:25:20 PM
Submittard is heathen scum.

/BURN HIM!
 
2009-03-04 09:28:54 PM
From the couch, the obvious tag is calling the interesting tag a lazy biatch.
 
2009-03-04 09:34:38 PM
Screw the "Obvious" tag...this headline needs the "no farking shiat" tag.
 
2009-03-04 09:42:17 PM
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
 
2009-03-04 09:47:57 PM
Less likely to experience uncertainty...less likely to experience doubt...I think 'credulous' and 'gullible' are the word you're looking for.
That these traits would be more likely to be found among Christians, well, duh.

/get the flock outta here
 
2009-03-04 09:48:18 PM
Skail: From the couch, the obvious tag is calling the interesting tag a lazy biatch.

Except that isn't what the study actually shows.

It looks to me as though the study made the mistake that a lot of research on religious faith does. A bunch of the research I've read on the consequences of religious belief show that you have to figure whether the person has an authoritarian or quest orientation. That is, do they think that religious faith is about trying to figure out what faith requires (and it's hard to do that and is a constant process of learning, self-reflection, and listening) or that the truths have all been determined and it's a question of behaving.

So, doing a study on "religious" people without making that distinction doesn't get you really good data. It's like doing a study of "tall v. short" people without taking into account age.

People with a "quest" orientation tend to be less prejudiced, more compassionate, and less prone to violence, btw.
 
2009-03-04 10:26:02 PM
Hubert Sumlin:

Except that isn't what the study actually shows.

It looks to me as though the study made the mistake that a lot of research on religious faith does. A bunch of the research I've read on the consequences of religious belief show that you have to figure whether the person has an authoritarian or quest orientation. That is, do they think that religious faith is about trying to figure out what faith requires (and it's hard to do that and is a constant process of learning, self-reflection, and listening) or that the truths have all been determined and it's a question of behaving.

So, doing a study on "religious" people without making that distinction doesn't get you really good data. It's like doing a study of "tall v. short" people without taking into account age.

People with a "quest" orientation tend to be less prejudiced, more compassionate, and less prone to violence, btw.


I agree with your critique of the headline, to the extent that I understand it, but I have some questions WRT your opinion of the article.

Are you using the term "Quest" in Dale Cannon's sense, or some other?
(And if "other," could you suggest some reading material? Thanks.)

If the former, I'm not sure I entirely concur. In a sense, the Crusades and the Haj can both be considered "quests" of a sort, so there's not a particularly strong correlation between participation in a religious quest and non-violence/egalitarianism/compassion.

Nor is a mystical quest exclusive of other approaches to religious belief/ritual behavior. A person who is engaged in a search for spiritual "truths" may also engage in much more formal, liturgical calendar-"choreographed" ritual behavior (possibly including authoritarian elements) at times.

So I guess what I'm saying is "please elaborate."



(Caveat: I am not a believer, and I am almost certain that I never will be one, but I am fascinated by the subject and not at all "hostile" towards religion in general nor towards people of faith. I am very interested in both the systems of beliefs themselves and the reasons why people adhere to them, and I promise not to belittle your beliefs or try to get you to question them. If you are interested in discussing your beliefs, I would be grateful. Sincere thanks, in advance.)
 
2009-03-04 10:43:48 PM
explains a lot really.
 
2009-03-04 10:55:24 PM
Christians see the world through rose-colored glasses, except if you sin, in which case they want to burn you at the stake or try to force..errrr..."convince" you to convert.

/it's called a "come to Jesus meeting" for a reason.
 
2009-03-04 11:00:16 PM
Hubert Sumlin: Great headline, but not what the study shows. It just shows that people who believe in God are calmer.

Exactly. Which for the average person is a good thing in many ways, as long as you at least acknowledge the error and attempt to avoid future errors.

However, greater distress over errors is likely to drive people to work harder to avoid errors in the future. Also a good thing. Especially if that person is my doctor.
 
2009-03-04 11:01:25 PM
strangeguitar: If you could reason with Christians there would be far less Christians.

www.myconfinedspace.com
 
2009-03-04 11:03:55 PM
PC LOAD LETTER: Christians see the world through rose-colored glasses, except if you sin, in which case they want to burn you at the stake or try to force..errrr..."convince" you to convert.


Meh. Some of them do. Some Muslims do the same. So do some Mormons, Scientologists, Republicans, Democrats, business majors, Sharper Image shoppers, manga fans, metal heads...

Convincing others to adopt aspects of one's own behavioral phenotype is memetics 101. It's not even worth criticizing them for it anymore, IMO.
(not that I don't also occasionally do so. Never claimed I was consistent! ;-)
 
2009-03-04 11:05:15 PM
Hubert Sumlin: Great headline, but not what the study shows.

img1.fark.net FTA: We found that religious people or even people who simply believe in the existence of God show significantly less brain activity in relation to their own errors.


Hubert Sumlin: quest orientation

More details?
 
2009-03-04 11:08:48 PM
A+++ HEADLINE WOULD HYPOCRITIZE AGAIN
 
2009-03-04 11:20:07 PM
I wonder how the usual religious suspects will rationalize this one away.

I mean, it's not like we've ever had first hand experience of them not being aware of their own errors or anything.
 
2009-03-04 11:21:41 PM
(Reads TFA)

This also seems to explain why people love authority and don't regret following orders.

Even so, I'll never understand why people think their actions are excused as long as someone else told them to do it.
 
2009-03-04 11:22:00 PM
FloydA: PC LOAD LETTER: Christians see the world through rose-colored glasses, except if you sin, in which case they want to burn you at the stake or try to force..errrr..."convince" you to convert.


Meh. Some of them do. Some Muslims do the same. So do some Mormons, Scientologists, Republicans, Democrats, business majors, Sharper Image shoppers, manga fans, metal heads...

Convincing others to adopt aspects of one's own behavioral phenotype is memetics 101. It's not even worth criticizing them for it anymore, IMO.
(not that I don't also occasionally do so. Never claimed I was consistent! ;-)


The problem is that only Christians are the ones trying to sell the Watchtower on my way to work (or knocking on my door on a Sunday) and only Christians are the ones trying to preach on the subway. And only Christians are the ones with huge quote mining displays in the 42nd st subway station (not even the Scientologists have that big a display). And only the Christians try to legislate morality every god damned day of the week by forcing religious displays in our governmental institutions, on our money, in our patriotic vocalizations and in our procedural rules of order. And god forbid a non-Christian tries to display their symbol every other god damned turn on the road, there will be an uproar over it.

I don't care if it's some. Some is too many.
 
2009-03-04 11:37:51 PM
Thats why God gave us pencils. So we can point out their errors.



/poking straight through their eye.
//say you were removing a splinter
 
2009-03-04 11:42:30 PM
That same test works for politics too!
 
2009-03-04 11:44:11 PM
It's called ignorance, guys and gals
 
2009-03-04 11:52:20 PM
IgG4: And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Win.
 
2009-03-04 11:54:06 PM
And this makes Christians different from everyone else how, again?
 
2009-03-04 11:55:41 PM
If I'm understanding the poorly written article, the religious were less anxious about making a mistake but they also made less mistakes overall during testing. So the natural conclusion is that being religious is a negative thing. I'm not religious, but someone help me out with the logic here. It sounds to me like the non-religious would get tripped up by a past mistake and it affected their performance, whereas the religious didn't get tripped up.

While we are at it, someone explain this to me:

These correlations remained strong even after controlling for personality and cognitive ability,

because I have tried to "control for personality" for decades with women and it's a flat out impossible task. I want to know what voodoo these people think they've come up with.


PC LOAD LETTER: The problem is that only Christians are the ones trying to sell the Watchtower on my way to work (or knocking on my door on a Sunday) and only Christians are the ones trying to preach on the subway. And only Christians are the ones with huge quote mining displays in the 42nd st subway station (not even the Scientologists have that big a display). And only the Christians try to legislate morality every god damned day of the week by forcing religious displays in our governmental institutions, on our money, in our patriotic vocalizations and in our procedural rules of order. And god forbid a non-Christian tries to display their symbol every other god damned turn on the road, there will be an uproar over it.

It's because of where you live. Trust me, whatever you think "bothers" you here pales in comparison to the treatment you'd have to put up with elsewhere, with the exception of some areas in Asia.

I treat proselytizers much like the homeless: "Sorry!" and keep on walking. It works remarkably well.
 
2009-03-04 11:57:05 PM
Hitler was an atheist and secularist. This new secularist socity we made up in the sixties has no respect for religion despite the benefits.
 
2009-03-04 11:58:50 PM
I do believe we need Bevets to come in here and tell us why this is wrong!

...and then our collective heads can explode from the irony.
 
2009-03-05 12:01:56 AM
PoopStain: If I'm understanding the poorly written article, the religious were less anxious about making a mistake but they also made less mistakes overall during testing.

Sorry dude, you didn't read the article correctly.

It doesn't say anything about the religious making less mistakes.

...it just says they're less apt to notice them.
 
2009-03-05 12:04:43 AM
Funny, most of you 'anti's will run to god once life kicks you in the ass a few dozen times.

Just like most of you believe you'll never be a corporate slave but will surely end up chained to a retirement plan in exchange for your soul.

Youth is nothing if not delusional.
 
2009-03-05 12:05:03 AM
It's more accurate, based on what the article said, to say that theists experience less doubt and uncertainty. A black and white worldview, as opposed to shades of grey.

Which is strange, considering how fond they are of accusing atheists of absolute certainty, no matter how many times we explain what words like "tenative", "provisional" and "probabilistic" mean. :-\
 
2009-03-05 12:06:58 AM
NYZooMan: "Funny, most of you 'anti's will run to god once life kicks you in the ass a few dozen times."

Atheists in Foxholes
 
2009-03-05 12:12:46 AM
Sounds about right. Abortion is wrong but God help the little lady of the house the first time dinner is cold.
 
2009-03-05 12:15:05 AM
Zamboro piling on NYzooman: Yes...adversity causes fear. Fear causes desperation. Desperation causes the desire to believe anything that'll save your ass. Interesting site you've got there, people who have demonstrated the ability to remain skeptical even through fear.
 
2009-03-05 12:19:47 AM
Anyone know of any good atheist forums?
 
2009-03-05 12:20:09 AM
abb3w: We found that religious people or even people who simply believe in the existence of God show significantly less brain activity in relation to their own errors.

FTFA.
 
2009-03-05 12:20:31 AM
NYZooMan: Funny, most of you 'anti's will run to god once life kicks you in the ass a few dozen times.

Just like most of you believe you'll never be a corporate slave but will surely end up chained to a retirement plan in exchange for your soul.

Youth is nothing if not delusional.


So, when exactly was it that I was supposed to become a devout believer in God's will? Was it when they told me my disabled brother was going to go blind? Was it when I became dysthemic as a teenager? Or perhaps when that worsened to major depression in my mid twenties? Maybe it was when I flunked out of university? Or when hay fever of all things derailed my career plans? When my Dad was diagnosed with cancer? How about when I got divorced?

Because personally, I am figuring that if none of those events turned me into a Bible-thumper, nothing's going to.
 
2009-03-05 12:25:26 AM
Dirty Hot Linker: Anyone know of any good atheist forums?


Rational Skeptics Society.^
 
2009-03-05 12:27:33 AM
PC LOAD LETTER: And only the Christians try to legislate morality every god damned day of the week ...

So the legislation that imposes your form of morality isn't legislative morality, right?

Sin taxes (add "carbon" to cigarettes & booze), pro-abortion stuff, anti-religious expression stuff, bans on animal testing but lifting bans on embryonic stem cell research... yadda yadda.

If it's something that you agree with, it's not imposing a moral view on others, right?
 
2009-03-05 12:29:51 AM
Ishidan: "Yes...adversity causes fear. Fear causes desperation. Desperation causes the desire to believe anything that'll save your ass."

Staying rational is what saves your ass. Surrendering to irrationality just comforts you as you die.
 
2009-03-05 12:33:19 AM
legion_of_doo: "Sin taxes (add "carbon" to cigarettes & booze), pro-abortion stuff, anti-religious expression stuff, bans on animal testing but lifting bans on embryonic stem cell research... yadda yadda."

None of those are attempts to enforce religious doctrine, which is the reason why legislating Biblical morality doesn't fly; it violates the separation of church and state.

legion_of_doo: "If it's something that you agree with, it's not imposing a moral view on others, right?"

If it wins the vote, doesn't violate the constitution and doesn't violate the church/state separation, then it's no more imposition than any other democratically approved measure.


Are you sincerely a theocrat? You don't seem to care for secularism.
 
2009-03-05 12:39:38 AM
strangeguitar: If you could reason with Christians there would be far less Christians.

well said my man, but we can apply that to any religon.
 
2009-03-05 12:42:28 AM
DJanomaly: It doesn't say anything about the religious making less mistakes.

Perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly, and it's possible since the article isn't very clear, but look at the part in bold:

The stronger their religious zeal and the more they believed in God, the less their ACC fired in response to their own errors, and the fewer errors they made.

The way that is written implies they had less concern about their own errors, but they also made fewer errors.

One thing I'm sure of, that clause is there. I can be misreading it, but the article certainly does say something about the religious making fewer mistakes.
 
2009-03-05 12:42:47 AM
gwanur: well said my man, but we can apply that to any religon.


Yes even Atheism.

/ok, I tried.
//Atheism isn't a religion
 
2009-03-05 12:51:33 AM
Dirty Hot Linker: Anyone know of any good atheist forums?

I don't believe they exist.
 
2009-03-05 12:54:44 AM
Raging Thespian: I don't believe they exist.

:::rim shot:::
 
2009-03-05 12:54:44 AM
Ba-da-da-DA-daaaaa.......

www.stamp.umd.edu
 
2009-03-05 12:56:15 AM
Wii.Tard: "Atheism isn't a religion"

It can, however, be a property of a religion. Secular Humanism is a religion, but it is atheistic. Atheism itself contains only a single bit of information, that for whatever reason (be it that you have seen no convincing evidence or even that you're somehow unaware of theism as a concept), you are without theistic belief. Not that you didn't know this, but it always bears restatement.
 
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