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(Wired)   Did you ever wonder why humans didn't develop long prehensile toes that would act as extra fingers? Scientists find that chimps like us, baby, we were born to run   (blog.wired.com ) divider line 143
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2895 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Feb 2009 at 7:18 AM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-02-21 12:32:04 AM  
I came in here to say Dan Lieberman, but I see TFA did. According to him, when we hunted for a living, a lot of it was just flat running animals down. Get some big ungulate panting. Sure, they take off, but by the time you catch up to them, they're not recovered yet. Rinse, relay, repeat. Hoofy animal goes GACK, or is too exhausted to move when you drive the spear into it. Dinner is served.
 
2009-02-21 12:45:46 AM  
Me, I was born to be wild.
 
2009-02-21 12:53:01 AM  
that is yet to come, subbytoe
 
2009-02-21 01:08:56 AM  
No, I have never wondered this.
 
2009-02-21 01:09:05 AM  
submitter: chimps like us

That's racist.
 
2009-02-21 01:09:56 AM  
Fark that, where is my prehensile tail? Damnit, evolution, you have failed me!
 
2009-02-21 01:11:18 AM  
torch: Sure, they take off, but by the time you catch up to them, they're not recovered yet.

Works well in hot climates like Africa. Humans are loaded with sweat-glands, more so than our furry prey, and humans are relentless.
 
2009-02-21 01:13:15 AM  

Chariset: Fark that, where is my prehensile tail? Damnit, evolution, you have failed me!


What if you had a short tail? I mean, everyone would see your tail. It's pretty hard to hide a tail on a human being. Would guys with really long tails get more chicks than guys with short tails?
 
2009-02-21 01:31:32 AM  

Chariset: Fark that, where is my prehensile tail? Damnit, evolution, you have failed me!


If you really want the human race to have tails, just find a woman who was born with one and start making babies.

/this is how the strangest personal ad ever was born
 
2009-02-21 01:33:23 AM  
Etchy333: If you really want the human race to have tails, just find a woman who was born with one and start making babies.

/this is how the strangest personal ad ever was born


Dear Penthouse... I used to think this only happened in the magazines...
 
2009-02-21 01:39:08 AM  

torch: Get some big ungulate panting. Sure, they take off, but by the time you catch up to them, they're not recovered yet. Rinse, relay, repeat. Hoofy animal goes GACK, or is too exhausted to move when you drive the spear into it. Dinner is served.


My anthro professor was discussing a tribe that does just this last week. Don't recall who they are though.
 
2009-02-21 02:28:38 AM  

Etchy333: If you really want the human race to have tails, just find a woman who was born with one and start making babies.


In my case, it'd have to be a guy.

And no, the one in front doesn't count, even if you can pick things up with it.

(Though if you can, it's a neat trick)
 
2009-02-21 02:33:10 AM  

Chariset: (Though if you can, it's a neat trick)


I find that the neat tricks allow you to pick things up, not vice versa.

Hah, misogyny!
 
2009-02-21 03:40:45 AM  

Give the genetic engineers some time.

www.sfcovers.net

 
2009-02-21 03:55:05 AM  
Develop? What about retain? Since we share a common ancestor with chimps, isn't it possible/likely that said ancestor had the prehensile toes, and stubby toes became more popular with us as we did more hunting and gathering on land than in trees?

The sad part is that now we probably have the technology to develop shoes that could enhance our running if we did have prehensile toes...

/dreams of a Finglonger.
//dreams of sunglasses which show what Jerry Garcia is doing.
///obscure?
 
2009-02-21 07:24:24 AM  

torch: I came in here to say Dan Lieberman, but I see TFA did. According to him, when we hunted for a living, a lot of it was just flat running animals down. Get some big ungulate panting. Sure, they take off, but by the time you catch up to them, they're not recovered yet. Rinse, relay, repeat. Hoofy animal goes GACK, or is too exhausted to move when you drive the spear into it. Dinner is served.


that guy has such a boner for running. i seriously think his theories are just a way for him to justify his hobby. it's a good thing he's not furry.
 
2009-02-21 07:41:28 AM  
Makes me think we originated in a rather treeless area.
 
2009-02-21 07:43:52 AM  
probably explains the quick spreading out of humanity around the globe. Oklahomo Sooners.
 
2009-02-21 07:59:04 AM  

Bucky Katt: No, I have never wondered this.


Wow. You're an incurious bastard. There is a tradition in my family, stretching four generations at least, of teaching the kids how to pick things up with their toes. My grandmother taught my father. My father taught me. I taught my daughter. It's not really that neat of a trick, but it's a skill you lose at a very young age if you don't practice.

Who the fark wants to bend down to pick up socks? Or the pencil you just dropped? Or a quarter? I'm working on shaving time off my cellphone record. The fastest I've ever managed to pick it up is 10 minutes. Stupid, but after 20 seconds, it becomes a matter of pride.
 
2009-02-21 08:04:03 AM  
If you've ever wondered why humans don't have long, prehensile toes that would turn our feet into extra hands, here's an answer: stubby toes may be custom-made for running.

Biomechanical analysis shows that long toes require more energy and generate more shock than short toes, making them one of many adaptations that may have helped our savannah-dwelling ancestors chase their prey.


Evolutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.
 
2009-02-21 08:10:18 AM  
 
2009-02-21 08:13:06 AM  

Bevets: If you've ever wondered why humans don't have long, prehensile toes that would turn our feet into extra hands, here's an answer: stubby toes may be custom-made for running.

Biomechanical analysis shows that long toes require more energy and generate more shock than short toes, making them one of many adaptations that may have helped our savannah-dwelling ancestors chase their prey.

Evolutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.


Bevets, I'm a Christian who doesn't see how evolution keeps God out of my brainwaves. Can you explain how that works? How do you know God didn't use evolution as part of creation?
 
2009-02-21 08:21:42 AM  

muck4doo: Bevets:



Bevets, I'm a Christian who doesn't see how evolution keeps God out of my brainwaves. Can you explain how that works? How do you know God didn't use evolution as part of creation?


Oh, no you didn't.
 
2009-02-21 08:22:18 AM  
Evolutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.

muck4doo:

Bevets, I'm a Christian who doesn't see how evolution keeps God out of my brainwaves. Can you explain how that works? How do you know God didn't use evolution as part of creation?

True, there are religious scientists and Darwinian churchgoers. But this does not mean that faith and science are compatible, except in the trivial sense that both attitudes can be simultaneously embraced by a single human mind. (It is like saying that marriage and adultery are compatible because some married people are adulterers.) ~ Jerry Coyne
 
2009-02-21 08:29:59 AM  

Bevets: Evolutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.

muck4doo:

Bevets, I'm a Christian who doesn't see how evolution keeps God out of my brainwaves. Can you explain how that works? How do you know God didn't use evolution as part of creation?

True, there are religious scientists and Darwinian churchgoers. But this does not mean that faith and science are compatible, except in the trivial sense that both attitudes can be simultaneously embraced by a single human mind. (It is like saying that marriage and adultery are compatible because some married people are adulterers.) ~ Jerry Coyne


That didn't answer the question, and kind of proved you wrong. By your own admission, "there are religious scientists and Darwinian churchgoers", doesn't that show evolution didn't keep God out of their brainwaves?
 
2009-02-21 08:34:18 AM  

muck4doo: Bevets: Evolutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.

muck4doo:

Bevets, I'm a Christian who doesn't see how evolution keeps God out of my brainwaves. Can you explain how that works? How do you know God didn't use evolution as part of creation?

True, there are religious scientists and Darwinian churchgoers. But this does not mean that faith and science are compatible, except in the trivial sense that both attitudes can be simultaneously embraced by a single human mind. (It is like saying that marriage and adultery are compatible because some married people are adulterers.) ~ Jerry Coyne

That didn't answer the question, and kind of proved you wrong. By your own admission, "there are religious scientists and Darwinian churchgoers", doesn't that show evolution didn't keep God out of their brainwaves?


I don't understand why you think religion and science are incompatible. That's something I expect the hardcore closeminded atheists to say, not the religious person who marvels at Gods creation and wonders "How did he do it?". I think God wants us to explore, discover, and try to figure this out.
 
2009-02-21 08:42:33 AM  
muck4doo:

I think God wants us to explore, discover, and try to figure this out.

I agree. Please proceed.
 
2009-02-21 08:55:40 AM  

Bevets: muck4doo:

I think God wants us to explore, discover, and try to figure this out.

I agree. Please proceed.


Interesting thing. The Bible says Eden was located in a place where three rivers meet. It wasn't until we had satellite imaging that we could actually see where that is(dry river beds involved). Eden looks to have been located in what is now the middle of the Persian Gulf. If Noah was in the same area, maybe that was his flood(the Persian gulf being filled). Interesting stuff.

I take Adam and Eve as not meant to be literal, but rather as symbolic of man going through the transition of hunter gatherer to the agricultural age. With steady food supplies man had more free time to ponder good and evil and develop his/her relationship with God. Cain and Abel are presented as masters of agriculture. I dig that mans first question to God is "Am I my brothers keeper?". I believe that God has been trying to answer that question ever since. Another reason why you shouldn't take Adam and Eve literally is that Cain says he is worried about people trying to kill him after God gives him the mark. Obviously there were other people around. I think Cain even finds a wife. Awesome, isn't it? Jesus often said things in parables. Who is to say that Genesis didn't do the same thing?

/Let he who has ears, hear
 
2009-02-21 09:02:36 AM  
muck4doo:

Jesus often said things in parables. Who is to say that Genesis didn't do the same thing?

Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience; . . . Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know. ~ James Barr Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University in England
 
2009-02-21 09:17:48 AM  

Bevets: muck4doo:

Jesus often said things in parables. Who is to say that Genesis didn't do the same thing?

Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience; . . . Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know. ~ James Barr Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University in England


When you close your mind to God to what you can understand in a nutshell, you are putting the tinfoil hat on yourself. My God isn't limited to what a few people tell me is supposed to be so, but is limitless and wants me to explore every possibility. Even if sometimes I don't like what I find. I think the difference between us is you are the type that thinks God needs us to pray to him and worship him. I believe it isn't God who needs that, but us instead.

Men are fallible. That includes me, you, and professors of Hebrew and the Old Testament too.

/And a dog named boo
 
2009-02-21 09:19:35 AM  
Bevets: Evolutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.

Hey, we missed you in the Gamma Ray burst thread (^)!

Why is that? Is it because that denial of basic physics is even more absurd than denial of basic biology?
 
2009-02-21 09:22:57 AM  
muck4doo: My God isn't limited to what a few people tell me is supposed to be so, but is limitless and wants me to explore every possibility.

Are you trying to claim that your God is smart enough and powerful enough to create any damned way he pleases, not necessarily the way 3000 year old goat herders say he had to make the world? That really goes against the Fundie idea that their God has to be as stupid as they are....

Dayum!
 
2009-02-21 09:28:38 AM  

maddogdelta: muck4doo: My God isn't limited to what a few people tell me is supposed to be so, but is limitless and wants me to explore every possibility.

Are you trying to claim that your God is smart enough and powerful enough to create any damned way he pleases, not necessarily the way 3000 year old goat herders say he had to make the world? That really goes against the Fundie idea that their God has to be as stupid as they are....

Dayum!


Exactly. Odd idea isn't. God doesn't have limits like Bevets claims.
 
2009-02-21 09:32:15 AM  

muck4doo: maddogdelta: muck4doo: My God isn't limited to what a few people tell me is supposed to be so, but is limitless and wants me to explore every possibility.

Are you trying to claim that your God is smart enough and powerful enough to create any damned way he pleases, not necessarily the way 3000 year old goat herders say he had to make the world? That really goes against the Fundie idea that their God has to be as stupid as they are....

Dayum!

Exactly. Odd idea isn't it? God doesn't have limits like Bevets claims.


FTFM
 
2009-02-21 09:34:35 AM  
muck4doo: FTFM

For a second, I thought I was seeing double.

For a second, I thought I was seeing double.
 
2009-02-21 09:42:33 AM  
I want my prehensile feet and a prehensile tail! I'm always dropping stuff.
 
2009-02-21 10:09:26 AM  
WHEN DO WE GET HOOVES!!!
 
2009-02-21 10:34:24 AM  
Bevets

Jeeze, the stuff you say gets old in a hurry


/and that's coming from a Church going Catholic
//Though it occurred to me that you may be one of Fark's greatest trolls
 
2009-02-21 10:41:02 AM  
I have freakishly long toes.
 
2009-02-21 10:44:16 AM  

fernandez: Bevets

Jeeze, the stuff you say gets old in a hurry


/and that's coming from a Church going Catholic
//Though it occurred to me that you may be one of Fark's greatest trolls


He doesn't 'say' anything, he quote mines, and usually just does it the one time.

I'm impressed that he responded though, one of the first times I've seen it happen.

/agrees with muck4doo regardless of religious (or lack of) convictions
 
2009-02-21 10:46:06 AM  

fernandez: Bevets

Jeeze, the stuff you say gets old in a hurry

/and that's coming from a Church going Catholic
//Though it occurred to me that you may be one of Fark's greatest trolls


Are you kidding? Fark has FAR better trolls than Bevets. He's not even trying. He just cuts 'n pastes the same self-contradictory BS over and over and over. This thread contains the most actual typing I've ever seen from him , and three-quarters of his posts here are still other people's words taken out of context.
 
2009-02-21 10:54:03 AM  
dammit, i mentioned boners and furries in a single post and i was so sure someone would respond when, not four posts later, bevets shows up and kills all other discussion going on in this thread. can we just ignore the guy for once?

/you're a party pooper that's why we invited you.
//party pooper
///party pooper
 
2009-02-21 10:54:52 AM  
muck4doo:

I've been farking for a few years, and this is the closest I've ever seen anyone come to getting into an actual dialogue with Bevets.
 
2009-02-21 10:55:52 AM  
What? You mean people can't pick stuff up with their toes? I can with no problems.

/freaktoes
 
2009-02-21 11:00:55 AM  
now if we could get those republican DC chimps to run their asses back to the corporate boardrooms they came from, the country would be alot better off.
 
2009-02-21 11:02:57 AM  

muck4doo: My God isn't limited to what a few people tell me is supposed to be so, but is limitless and wants me to explore every possibility.


Cool. It's almost as if you creating him in your own image.
 
2009-02-21 11:07:04 AM  

Mad Tea Party: muck4doo:

I've been farking for a few years, and this is the closest I've ever seen anyone come to getting into an actual dialogue with Bevets.


I like Bevets when he actually posts an idea. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen often. I think by limiting himself to what a few scholars said, and not looking into all possibilities he is actually cheating God on the gift he was given. Think. Explore. Search. Discover. God created us to do that. He gave you that brain for a reason. If he wanted us all to be a a bunch of lemmings, he would have made you one. Some may believe in God and keep on exploring. Some may not and keep on exploring. Some may have no belief in God and stop. Some may have belief in God and stop. What the last two have most in common is they stopped exploring, and have closed their minds. The first two may disagree on God, but that isn't as important as the fact that they keep exploring. My belief is that that is what we were put here to do.
 
2009-02-21 11:09:03 AM  

0Icky0: muck4doo: My God isn't limited to what a few people tell me is supposed to be so, but is limitless and wants me to explore every possibility.

Cool. It's almost as if you creating him in your own image.


It looks like you limited him as well.
 
2009-02-21 11:14:26 AM  

muck4doo: Think. Explore. Search. Discover. God created us to do that. He gave you that brain for a reason.


Why did he give my little brother a brain that couldn't do any of that stuff?

Since you seem to be saying that you have some information on what God wants, you should be able to give me an answer. Unless, as I suspect, you are just making stuff up.

Sure, I'd rather have people like you making stuff up than people like Bevets. But it's still make believe.
 
2009-02-21 11:15:39 AM  

muck4doo: It looks like you limited him as well.


I don't place limitations on your constructs. That would be silly.
Create your own space, man.
 
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