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(New York Daily News)   South Asian man stopped 21 times by NYPD on subway files lawsuit. Police say they weren't using racial profiling, just that he looked suspicious entering and exiting his home subway station every single day   (nydailynews.com) divider line 130
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12796 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Feb 2009 at 11:01 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-02-20 11:22:44 AM
what_now: ZachF81: but if anyone has a big bag or looks anxious in the least bit, they get checked.

I go to the gym after work and usually have a big bag. I look nervous a lot if I'm going to be late. Am I a suspect?


Only if you have a year round tan. Which makes me wonder if guidos ever run into this problem.
 
2009-02-20 11:23:23 AM
aMiGo255: before anymore asian jokes come in, try to remember South Asia consists of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives, and British Indian Ocean Territory. Some definitions may also include Afghanistan, Myanmar, Tibet, and Iran. (Taken from Wikipedia)

I think they recently started calling themselves south ASIAN for a better image. If you are Iranian trying to apply for a job in America, it probably looks better on a resume to say you are "asian"


Yet we have no problem calling people with european descent caucasian

Anyone with intelligence can figure out a way to bomb a place without using suspicious persons.

If I recall correctly, there was a jordanian man that had a white british woman pregnant - He convinced her to visit the his family in Israel.

He put a bomb in her luggage and had her fly alone... Think about that - A pregnant white woman with a bomb in her luggage.

If the idiots that thinks profiling works just waved her through - surely a pregnant white woman wouldn't do that... That would not have gone so well.

Essentially, The terrorist is getting advantage here... They had us afraid and people do stupid things when panicked. We're STILL doing the same idiotic practices invented weeks after 9/11, practices that really does not prevent or solve anything!
 
2009-02-20 11:24:24 AM
All hail stupid security measures. I hope US citizens sleep safe in the knowledge that it would take an unprecedented TWO terrorists, one acting as scout to know if there was any bag searches happening at a station before the second one with the bomb entered.
 
2009-02-20 11:26:23 AM
What's wrong with an Indian perpetuating a positive stereotype?

I don't really know any Indian stereotypes. I know guys from India, they are hardworking and friendly. They cook the most delicious food I've ever had. And they listen to really cool music. They are Sikh but don't really practice.
 
2009-02-20 11:26:29 AM
dbubb: aMiGo255: before anymore asian jokes come in, try to remember South Asia consists of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives, and British Indian Ocean Territory. Some definitions may also include Afghanistan, Myanmar, Tibet, and Iran. (Taken from Wikipedia)

I think they recently started calling themselves south ASIAN for a better image. If you are Iranian trying to apply for a job in America, it probably looks better on a resume to say you are "asian"

Screw wikipedia, Iran is not in South Asia, nor is Tibet or Afghanistan


This. And not one self respecting Iranian would ever call hide the fact they are Iranian.

/Tehran born and proud of it.
 
2009-02-20 11:28:11 AM
CrispFlows: Yet we have no problem calling people with european descent caucasian

lol...that's just silly.
 
2009-02-20 11:28:36 AM
ZachF81: He's probably carrying around suspicious bags/packages, or looks worried. As he stated, he was stopped at a variety of stations all around Manhattan and Brooklyn, so it's not like the same cops had it out for him. I guarantee he was doing something to look suspicious. I've seen the cops in the subway let plenty of people from every corner of the earth walk through without a bother, but if anyone has a big bag or looks anxious in the least bit, they get checked.

This had nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the fact that the guy probably carries himself awkwardly, and constantly looks suspicious because of it.


When cops stop you because you're acting suspiciously, they will often tell you as such. If they don't have a reason, or they have an impermissible reason, they'll tell you it's random.

Bear in mind, you may have seen people of all walks of life walk by without a hassle, but that doesn't mean that they aren't being hassled. This guy probably rode the subway 500 times a year, and was stopped 21 times over the course of about 4 years. At a rate of 21 stops per 2000 rides, every single South Asian man may be stopped at this rate and you'd never see a single one of them as a casual observer. Now you may also think that 21 stops in 2000 rides is not a terrible inconvenience, but I guarantee that it is a higher rate than you've suffered, and I'm sure the overwhelming majority of white guys would regard as few as 2-3 stops in 2000 rides as stupid and impermissible.
 
2009-02-20 11:28:39 AM
ObscureNameHere: ops trying to pass themselves off as not-cops in bars, etc.

Yeah, its kind of obvious that the young guy with the Marine haircut at the end of the bar drinking diet coke by himself is a cop.
 
2009-02-20 11:28:41 AM
astrotri: Then it's noted his parents are from Kashmir. When the hell did we start calling that part of the world South Asia?

I noticed that too. Northern India isn't South Asia.
 
2009-02-20 11:29:49 AM
what_now: I go to the gym after work and usually have a big bag. I look nervous a lot if I'm going to be late. Am I a suspect?

Yes, citizen.

That's just who I see get searched on the subway every day. Male or female of every race and color. All it takes is a bag + a bit of nervousness and they usually search you.

I don't really see guidos having this problem, but cops usually stereotype them as not clever enough to pull anything off. Come to think of it, it'd probably be a good disguise. Hopefully no terrorist figures that out.
 
2009-02-20 11:30:54 AM
drxym: All hail stupid security measures. I hope US citizens sleep safe in the knowledge that it would take an unprecedented TWO terrorists, one acting as scout to know if there was any bag searches happening at a station before the second one with the bomb entered.

I've been searched twice since this thing started, and been asked to be searched a third, which i refused.

/i refused because i had an oz of weed in my bag. walked out of the station, walked over to the other entrance, walked in, went on my way.
//technically i think they coudn't actually do anything about the weed because they were looking for bombs, but i wasn't going to risk.
///not a lawyer.
 
2009-02-20 11:31:21 AM
KJM315: dbubb: aMiGo255: before anymore asian jokes come in, try to remember South Asia consists of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives, and British Indian Ocean Territory. Some definitions may also include Afghanistan, Myanmar, Tibet, and Iran. (Taken from Wikipedia)

I think they recently started calling themselves south ASIAN for a better image. If you are Iranian trying to apply for a job in America, it probably looks better on a resume to say you are "asian"

Screw wikipedia, Iran is not in South Asia, nor is Tibet or Afghanistan

This. And not one self respecting Iranian would ever call hide the fact they are Iranian.

/Tehran born and proud of it.


Hey i don't agree with it either, don't get me wrong. I just didn't want people to skim the article and picture a little chinese guy getting stopped and doing statistics on the spot when questioned by police.
 
2009-02-20 11:31:27 AM
astrotri: When I started reading the article I thought, "Ethnic profiling of South Asians? Are Thai Muslims global now?"

Then it's noted his parents are from Kashmir. When the hell did we start calling that part of the world South Asia? Didn't it used to be Central Asia?


Central Asia are places like Kazakhstan, Western China, and parts of Russia. South Asia is generally places on and around the Indian subcontinent.
 
2009-02-20 11:32:28 AM
vernonFL: ObscureNameHere: ops trying to pass themselves off as not-cops in bars, etc.

Yeah, its kind of obvious that the young guy with the Marine haircut at the end of the bar drinking diet coke by himself is a cop.


So, do folks in the bar try to manipulate, pull pranks, toy with them etc.? So of like be talking, then as soon as Cop looks your way suddenly stop and look away?
 
2009-02-20 11:32:33 AM
Did no one read the article? The police aren't allowed to single people out based on how they look or act.

Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne said passengers are chosen at random intervals, such as every fifth or 10th passenger, set by a supervisor on the scene.
 
2009-02-20 11:32:58 AM
KJM315: I've been searched twice since this thing started, and been asked to be searched a third, which i refused.

/i refused because i had an oz of weed in my bag. walked out of the station, walked over to the other entrance, walked in, went on my way.
//technically i think they coudn't actually do anything about the weed because they were looking for bombs, but i wasn't going to risk.
///not a lawyer.


They can bust you for your weed. They have the authority. And just because the search was for another purpose doesn't mean they have to ignore any other crimes they happen to observe.
 
2009-02-20 11:33:20 AM
Russ1642: astrotri: Then it's noted his parents are from Kashmir. When the hell did we start calling that part of the world South Asia?

I noticed that too. Northern India isn't South Asia.


Yeah it is. Asia's this big continent, India is part of it. In fact, all of India is south Asia. What continent do you think it's on?
 
2009-02-20 11:33:21 AM
drxym: All hail stupid security measures. I hope US citizens sleep safe in the knowledge that it would take an unprecedented TWO terrorists, one acting as scout to know if there was any bag searches happening at a station before the second one with the bomb entered.

Hell, they should use the Orange Cone defense. After the 9/11 attacks they started blocking off all sorts of buildings and streets with orange cones. Apparently terrorist are physically unable to cross the dreaded Orange Cone line.
If only we had known we could have surrounded the WTC with orange cones and the attacks would have been prevented.
 
2009-02-20 11:35:30 AM
icanhazstapler: Only if you have a year round tan. Which makes me wonder if guidos ever run into this problem.

I never have a tan. I'm French and Dutch. At best, I get freckles.
 
2009-02-20 11:35:31 AM
there's a man who lives a life of danger;
everywhere he goes, guards see a stranger!
racial profiling he'd stop,
but tell that to the cops.
they wanna know what's in his bags today-ay!

southern... asian man!
southern... asian man!

he may just get detained for looking like Hussein.
 
2009-02-20 11:36:30 AM
Nuuu: KJM315: I've been searched twice since this thing started, and been asked to be searched a third, which i refused.

/i refused because i had an oz of weed in my bag. walked out of the station, walked over to the other entrance, walked in, went on my way.
//technically i think they coudn't actually do anything about the weed because they were looking for bombs, but i wasn't going to risk.
///not a lawyer.

They can bust you for your weed. They have the authority. And just because the search was for another purpose doesn't mean they have to ignore any other crimes they happen to observe.


again, why i just said no, walked out and didn't risk it.
 
2009-02-20 11:37:03 AM
Russ1642: astrotri: Then it's noted his parents are from Kashmir. When the hell did we start calling that part of the world South Asia?

I noticed that too. Northern India isn't South Asia.




um...*cough*...yes...it is.

upload.wikimedia.org


/Asia...on the map...it's the green one.

 
2009-02-20 11:37:31 AM
Russ1642: astrotri: Then it's noted his parents are from Kashmir. When the hell did we start calling that part of the world South Asia?

I noticed that too. Northern India isn't South Asia.


Sure about that?


web.mit.edu
 
2009-02-20 11:37:54 AM
KJM315: Nuuu: KJM315: I've been searched twice since this thing started, and been asked to be searched a third, which i refused.

/i refused because i had an oz of weed in my bag. walked out of the station, walked over to the other entrance, walked in, went on my way.
//technically i think they coudn't actually do anything about the weed because they were looking for bombs, but i wasn't going to risk.
///not a lawyer.

They can bust you for your weed. They have the authority. And just because the search was for another purpose doesn't mean they have to ignore any other crimes they happen to observe.

again, why i just said no, walked out and didn't risk it.


Good call.
 
2009-02-20 11:38:04 AM
South Asia =/= Southeast Asia (which is a more common term)

"South" is easy enough to understand. So is "Asia".

Saying Kashmir (part of Pakistan) is not in south asia is like saying Amarillo (part of Texas) is not in "the South" of USA.
 
2009-02-20 11:38:15 AM
Adam Baum: ooops, wrong race...

If you picked the guy on the left, though, you're a Racial Justice Hero!
 
2009-02-20 11:39:27 AM
I like the Isreali's summation of US airport and other transportation security measures:

(paraphrased) - Israeli security is in place to catch terrorists, US security is in place to annoy people

If the vast majority of the terrorists attacks, threats, etc are from one similar group of people, that's not racial profiling, it is a suspect list. Like it or not people of middle eastern and in some cases asian descent are the purveyors of terrorists threats.

Middle age white guys are more into the whole child molestation deal, so if you are looking for pedophiles, stop those guys. Teenagers are more likely to be grafiti artists and vandals, if that is what you are looking for stop them.

Really bad music is be produced by young african americans males, to stop that arrest them.

Racial profiling is bad - suspect lists backed up by clear imperical data is good and should be used.
 
2009-02-20 11:41:47 AM
what_now: Can this guy prove he was stopped 21 times? It sounds like he has a case if he can.

Unfortunately this is going to be necessary, and not easy. Not to mention if he has documentation he's going to be charged with trying to extort police. Either way he looses.

He's obviously not very familiar with the US, but suing the police is essentially putting your life in jeopardy.
 
2009-02-20 11:49:32 AM
The only people I have ever seen getting searched at the subway stations are Middle-Eastern or South Asian in appearance, all men, and all in their 20's and 30's.

No racial profiling here, citizen.
 
2009-02-20 11:51:28 AM
JohnCarter: If the vast majority of the terrorists attacks, threats, etc are from one similar group of people, that's not racial profiling, it is a suspect list. Like it or not people of middle eastern and in some cases asian descent are the purveyors of terrorists threats.

Middle age white guys are more into the whole child molestation deal, so if you are looking for pedophiles, stop those guys. Teenagers are more likely to be grafiti artists and vandals, if that is what you are looking for stop them.


The vast majority of terrorist attacks against Israel are by one similar group of people. In America, this is not the case.

Israel probably has very little to fear from Indonesian Muslim extremists (who look Asian). We do. Israel probably has very little to fear from northern Kurdish or Chechen extremists. (who look white). We do. Israel has a lot to fear from Palestinian terrorists. We are, comparatively a low priority to them. Add to that, Israelis probably have a much easier time telling one class of brown person from another. We (the US and Britain) have repeatedly shown that our cops can't realistically tell the difference between an Arab and a Brazilian, or an Indian, or a Spaniard, or anyone else with Brown hair and a touch of color in their cheeks.

The kind of profiling that Israel uses simply would not work for us.
 
2009-02-20 11:52:19 AM
I tried to read the article but my attention was averted to the sidebar pics of Pamela Anderson in a skimpy leotard.

my apologies if pic doesn't appear on link provided
 
2009-02-20 11:53:02 AM
The guy has to be from the Pakistani side of Kashmir, not the Indian side. Indians don't refer to themselves as "South Asians", but a lot of Pakistanis do (especially in recent years), because of the negative connotations of Pakistan. Heck, I know two Pakistani guys in Silicon Valley trying to get VC funding for their company, that keep trying to pass themselves off as Indians because (according to them) announcing that they are Pakistani pretty much kills their chances of getting any funding. It nearly worked with one venture capitalist too, until the guy insisted that he would invest in them provided they moved to Bangalore to supervise the ops from there.

Incidentally, the guy that owns a local laundromat is from the Indian side of Kashmir and he always calls himself "Indian", not "South Asian". That's where I learned what this South Asian business is all about. According to him, Sri Lankans, Burmese, Nepalese etc. all refer to themselves as such and it is only the Pakistanis (and to a lesser degree, Bangladeshis) who introduce themselves as "South Asians"
 
2009-02-20 11:54:59 AM
Poor guy. If he's Kashmiri, he probably looks a little Arab.
(I'm making the assumption that the anti-terrorism folks are trained to at least somewhat tell the difference.)

I don't blame him, just hope he can prove his case.
 
2009-02-20 11:56:42 AM
DIGITALgimpus:
He's obviously not very familiar with the US, but suing the police is essentially putting your life in jeopardy.


He's a US citizen born in Brooklyn; shouldn't he be getting the hang of it by now?
 
2009-02-20 11:57:29 AM
LikeTheSearchEngine: Adam Baum: ooops, wrong race...

If you picked the guy on the left, though, you're a Racial Justice Hero!


It was embezzlement. Of course it had to be the white guy. No one would give a black man access to that much money.
 
2009-02-20 11:59:07 AM
Scorpions4ever: The guy has to be from the Pakistani side of Kashmir, not the Indian side. Indians don't refer to themselves as "South Asians", but a lot of Pakistanis do (especially in recent years), because of the negative connotations of Pakistan.

It's also a politically correct way of referring to the immigrant community when you're targeting folks from the whole subcontinent. I hear it a lot on "South Asian" or "desi" radio stations - even though they usually clearly lean one way or another, they use those terms to keep from pissing anyone off.

/also glad someone acknowledged that Kashmir is NOT simply "part of Pakistan..."
 
2009-02-20 11:59:16 AM
caperbear: there's a man who lives a life of danger;
everywhere he goes, guards see a stranger!
racial profiling he'd stop,
but tell that to the cops.
they wanna know what's in his bags today-ay!

southern... asian man!
southern... asian man!

he may just get detained for looking like Hussein.


I applaud you. That was brilliant.
 
2009-02-20 12:00:02 PM
CrispFlows:
Yet we have no problem calling people with european descent caucasian


No, we call white Europeans caucasian because of the theory that they originated in the Caucasus.
 
2009-02-20 12:00:04 PM
I don't know if he should sue, but he should have brought it to the departments attention after about number 5. Because if true that shiat ain't right. I know a few people in NYC and go there a bit myself. Never been searched, nor has anyone else I know.

/"random" searches will never stop anything
//at best you catch a few mexicans with weed
///and we need that weed
 
2009-02-20 12:09:26 PM
These "Flying while Muslim" and other angry, "humiliated" Muslim lawsuits all tend to follow a similar pattern:

One or more of the plaintiffs turns out to be associated with a Muslim Brotherhood front group that just participated in a seminar on how to act really suspicious in public and provoke such incidents for profit.

/Pasty white and was searched on the subway when carrying my own full backpack and the backpack a friend forgot.
 
2009-02-20 12:12:08 PM
Nuuu: JohnCarter: If the vast majority of the terrorists attacks, threats, etc are from one similar group of people, that's not racial profiling, it is a suspect list. Like it or not people of middle eastern and in some cases asian descent are the purveyors of terrorists threats.

Middle age white guys are more into the whole child molestation deal, so if you are looking for pedophiles, stop those guys. Teenagers are more likely to be grafiti artists and vandals, if that is what you are looking for stop them.

The vast majority of terrorist attacks against Israel are by one similar group of people. In America, this is not the case.

Israel probably has very little to fear from Indonesian Muslim extremists (who look Asian). We do. Israel probably has very little to fear from northern Kurdish or Chechen extremists. (who look white). We do. Israel has a lot to fear from Palestinian terrorists. We are, comparatively a low priority to them. Add to that, Israelis probably have a much easier time telling one class of brown person from another. We (the US and Britain) have repeatedly shown that our cops can't realistically tell the difference between an Arab and a Brazilian, or an Indian, or a Spaniard, or anyone else with Brown hair and a touch of color in their cheeks.

The kind of profiling that Israel uses simply would not work for us.


Eh, Kurds and Chechens aren't really folks that have much of a axe to grind with the U.S. I mean, the Kurds probably have some issues with our relatively good relations with Turkey, but thats counterbalanced somewhat by our support of them in Iraq. Chechens generally vent their violent tendencies on the Russians, with pretty good cause. The Chechens are largely Muslims, but not a sect that is given to the extremist rhetoric and actions the way the Wahhabi are. Their beef is largely nationalistic in nature, and again pretty much entirely with Moscow.
 
2009-02-20 12:12:12 PM
Conservationist: I don't agree with the lawsuit.

It's a cash grab that will cost all of us, because the costs of policing New York are the same.

We'll probably figure out in another month that his next-door neighbor -- who was also South Asian -- was a big-time drug dealer.


I really can't explain the situation to you if you don't already grasp why this is retarded. The whole thing, the idea of searching bags to prevent terrorism, the idea that "hey while you're at it catch drug dealers", that entire mindset, it's wrong. It is incompatible with a free society.

And if you can't see that, you're stupid.
 
2009-02-20 12:14:33 PM
FahQue: Bummer of a birthmark, Hal
/obscurish


Obscurish? Shirley you jest!

farm1.static.flickr.com
 
2009-02-20 12:19:15 PM
Now he knows how it feels to be black
 
2009-02-20 12:19:39 PM
LavenderWolf: Conservationist: I don't agree with the lawsuit.

It's a cash grab that will cost all of us, because the costs of policing New York are the same.

We'll probably figure out in another month that his next-door neighbor -- who was also South Asian -- was a big-time drug dealer.

I really can't explain the situation to you if you don't already grasp why this is retarded. The whole thing, the idea of searching bags to prevent terrorism, the idea that "hey while you're at it catch drug dealers", that entire mindset, it's wrong. It is incompatible with a free society.

And if you can't see that, you're stupid.


Why can't you just use a friendly cab driver when you transport your drugs?
 
2009-02-20 12:25:04 PM
Cheviot: Did no one read the article? The police aren't allowed to single people out based on how they look or act.

Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne said passengers are chosen at random intervals, such as every fifth or 10th passenger, set by a supervisor on the scene.


every 5th passenger = euphemism for dark skinned

10th passenger = euphemism to score some weed for tonight's party
 
2009-02-20 12:26:12 PM
DIGITALgimpus: what_now: Can this guy prove he was stopped 21 times? It sounds like he has a case if he can.

Unfortunately this is going to be necessary, and not easy. Not to mention if he has documentation he's going to be charged with trying to extort police. Either way he looses.

He's obviously not very familiar with the US, but suing the police is essentially putting your life in jeopardy.


Put your tinfoil hat away.
 
2009-02-20 12:30:31 PM
On the other hand,

When the people who have sworn to attack you again look a certain way, common sense does sort of push in the direction of stopping people who look the like the people who threatened you.

If they were looking for Nazis they might be stopping blonds with blue eyes.

I am torn. In one sense this seems unfair. On the other hand, stopping people who look like the people you are looking for does make a certain sense.
 
2009-02-20 12:33:53 PM
Fook: Eh, Kurds and Chechens aren't really folks that have much of a axe to grind with the U.S. I mean, the Kurds probably have some issues with our relatively good relations with Turkey, but thats counterbalanced somewhat by our support of them in Iraq. Chechens generally vent their violent tendencies on the Russians, with pretty good cause. The Chechens are largely Muslims, but not a sect that is given to the extremist rhetoric and actions the way the Wahhabi are. Their beef is largely nationalistic in nature, and again pretty much entirely with Moscow.

Many reports out of Falluja in 2003-5 indicate that Chechen mercs were some of the toughest insurgents that American forces fought, and they were present in not insignificant numbers.

What is more, in the early days of the Iraq occupation, one of our toughest foes in the north was a group called Ansar al-Islam, the kurds.
 
2009-02-20 12:34:25 PM
drxym: I hope US citizens sleep safe in the knowledge that it would take an unprecedented TWO terrorists, one acting as scout to know if there was any bag searches happening at a station before the second one with the bomb entered.

img25.imageshack.us

Way to go, Geraldo!
 
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