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(SanDiegoUnionTribune)   Three respected former presidents say America's war on drugs is failing and the U.S. government should break with "prohibition" policies that have achieved little more than cram its prisons and stoke violence   (www3.signonsandiego.com) divider line 335
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25126 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2009 at 9:56 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-02-13 01:59:42 AM
azmoviez: Gee subby. Next you'll tell me that OPEC agrees that climate change is not caused by fossil fuel emissions. Has the world gone mad??

Wow...way to FAIL!!!!
 
2009-02-13 02:17:38 AM
Fizics, texastag:
The 'lazy stoner' stereotype is over.

In the evening after my family has gone to bed I sometimes burn one down and play some guitar/ walk the dog/ waste some time on fark. I'm a good father, work for an engineering firm, volunteer time teaching ESL, and have run a mile a day for every day this month (so far) average time is 11 minute mile.
 
2009-02-13 02:26:23 AM
texastag: Yeah, we need more brain dead zombies whacked out on cheap drugs in this country. You pack of ignorant farking morons. What do you think will happen when the drugs are cheap and easily obtained? Do you think people will show calm restraint and just have a cool puff of weed every now and then to relax? No, they won't. There will be thousands of ODs and deaths of both the users and the people they kill in driving and other accidents or in drug induced dementia.

Sorry, the Netherlands have a lower rate of cannabis use than English-speaking countries. Link (pops)

Marijuana use poses lower driving risk than alcohol: Link (pops)

THC has very low toxicity, and the very demotivation it causes is more likely to keep users off the road in the first place: Link (pops)

Your conjectures sound like D.A.R.E.-speak, spoon fed to them by the same kind of people who make prisons and play war with our citizens to pay their mortgages.

I agree with you that it's a slippery slope argument, and having a half-ass drug policy is well, downright un-American in a way. All-or-nothing freedom is what built the USA, and if we're going to really allow people the freedom to off themselves chemically, can we have suicide booths? Euthanasia?

Tough row to hoe. The economical savings of ending the drug war would be substantial, as would tax revenues, at least initially. Probably more than enough to launch fantastic education campaigns and affordable treatment centers for those in need.

I would posit that few people are likely to turn into raving lunatics craving a fix, and those that do will burn out and die quickly. Is sacrificing everyone's freedom for those few worth it?

People will always want drugs. They will always find a way to get them, whatever kind they want. Eliminating supply is not feasible. Eliminating demand is not feasible. Current programs have failed, at ridiculous cost in money, freedom, and lives. This is no longer acceptable, or affordable, or wise.

I would also hope that if all drugs were legalized, and easily available, fewer people would do them (no more "Let's rebel and do illegal drugs!") and would lean towards the softer drugs than things like meth. Just a hope.

Want to end the lie that is marijuana prohibition? Join NORML!
 
2009-02-13 02:35:49 AM
modestlivinglegend: People who want to "party" are way better off safety, health and productivity wise to use marajuana than alcohol. Alcohol is so much more harmful than marajuana. People just need to obey the laws, don't drink and drive, or smoke and drive.

The nation has a shortage of engineers. I wonder if it is because the engineers I know that have come out of engineering school and then have had to choose between pot and taking a drug test for an engineering job. They choose pot and stay away from those engineering jobs. Make pot legal and you will have a sudden increase in engineers and other scientists coming out of our schools and going into the fields that formerly threatened drug tests.


Is it even legal what they do, with their testing?
 
2009-02-13 02:40:56 AM
Nappy Imus: modestlivinglegend: People who want to "party" are way better off safety, health and productivity wise to use marajuana than alcohol. Alcohol is so much more harmful than marajuana. People just need to obey the laws, don't drink and drive, or smoke and drive.

The nation has a shortage of engineers. I wonder if it is because the engineers I know that have come out of engineering school and then have had to choose between pot and taking a drug test for an engineering job. They choose pot and stay away from those engineering jobs. Make pot legal and you will have a sudden increase in engineers and other scientists coming out of our schools and going into the fields that formerly threatened drug tests.

Is it even legal what they do, with their testing?



Companies that drug test (pops)
 
2009-02-13 02:46:55 AM
modestlivinglegend: People who want to "party" are way better off safety, health and productivity wise to use marajuana than alcohol. Alcohol is so much more harmful than marajuana. People just need to obey the laws, don't drink and drive, or smoke and drive.

The nation has a shortage of engineers. I wonder if it is because the engineers I know that have come out of engineering school and then have had to choose between pot and taking a drug test for an engineering job. They choose pot and stay away from those engineering jobs. Make pot legal and you will have a sudden increase in engineers and other scientists coming out of our schools and going into the fields that formerly threatened drug tests.


There may be some truth to that. I remember reading about a smallish software company that decide to start testing their programmers. Most came up hot and were canned. The company almost went broke trying to replace them and had to ask them back with the promise of back pay and no more testing.

/If I'm not doing it at work, it's none of your goddamn business.
 
2009-02-13 02:50:02 AM
Nappy Imus: Is it even legal what they do, with their testing?

I could see an argument being made for jobs with safety issues, but not much else.

And drug testing means: no recreational drug use off the job. Like that's anyone's damn business.

Uchiha_Cycliste: Companies that drug test (pops)

Heh. Noticed a couple of newspapers up here in the Puget Sound. Guess they don't want their reporters writing a bunch of stoner fantasies and passing it off as "news."

/drug testing is retarded
 
2009-02-13 02:59:41 AM
NORML, and morons like Mark Stepnoski who represent it, makes a joke out of the debate. The sooner NORML goes away, the sooner marijuana will be legalized.

I recall a piece he wrote for Reason (an otherwise fine publication) defending the marijuana use of a few future draft picks (Calvin Johnson among them, I believe them). It ignored the fact that the NFL isn't likely to loosen up on any drugs regardless of what the government does, but more importantly it reinforced the stereotype that NORML (and legalization advocates in general) is only interested in easier access to marijuana.

Unless you are willing to wait 30 years for legalization, a movement needs to be built around a credible political philosophy, convincing people who don't use and may disapprove of marijuana that they are indeed natural allies of the cause.
 
2009-02-13 03:01:04 AM
Dream on you filthy drug crazed reprobates!
 
2009-02-13 03:02:37 AM
It's crucial to end the drug war for several reasons:

1. It is unethical; private activities fall outside the domain of government regulation,
2. It is illegal; the constitution affirms rights which must be routinely violated to enforce drug laws,
3. It is immoral; in order to tell someone what they can/cannot do with their own bodies and minds, you must lay claim to their bodies and minds,
4. It is dangerous; it grants powers to the government which cannot exercise the required responsibility,
5. It is profitable; massive profit margins result in violent crime - committed both by drug runners and state agents,
6. It is unbecoming of a country which claims to be the land of the free.
 
2009-02-13 03:57:06 AM
You can't die from weed.. .. ok you can get cancer from smoking it, but thats from the smoke.. if you were to ingest it only you would never get cancer..

Do your research.. look up the LD40 of THC.. its a statistical indicator of how much something would take to kill you..

Lets see ingesting... water can kill you faster.. you know lovely aspirin?? can kill you faster.. $%^* oxygen can kill you faster than weed..

What the hell is wrong with weed? Why is it illegal? For those that answer it makes you dumb.. how do you know those stoners who sit around playing video games all day stoned, wouldnt do it sober anyways.. there are many "stoners" who are active productive members of society.. most naysayers just have a stigma, a stereotype when it comes to weed in their mind they are the ones too lazy to do the research on what it really does to you..

//I use it to write..
 
2009-02-13 04:31:14 AM
Gilaidil: //I use it to write..

I'm usually thinking of a bunch of things at once. When I smoke I can focus on one thing more intensely and concentrate harder. I coded best in college that way.
 
2009-02-13 04:42:48 AM
I just ate a whole pizza.

Like, 2900 calories of fat.

Jesus I'm fat, and I like marijuana.
 
2009-02-13 05:29:45 AM
former president from Latin America, respected? does not compute. You all make jokes about Bush and Clinton; over here if they're not in jail or exile, they're pulling the strings of the current government.
 
2009-02-13 05:51:16 AM
The War on Drugs as become a self-perpetuating enterprise. The small percentage of money they intercept provides enough profit to continue.

Law Enforcement doesn't want to win this war. Its just too damned profitable:

Example 1

Example 2

Example 3

Example 4

Given all they seize, we still spend millions every year on the effort. In Example 4, THEY BOUGHT A DAMNED MARGARITA MACHINE!

I would rather they legalized the softer stuff (ex. Marijuana) and used the tax revenue to help everyone, rather than spending it on more useless interdiction.
 
2009-02-13 06:25:56 AM
Respected former presidents of some of the most corrupt governments in the western world?

So lobby to legalize drugs in your own home nations, idiots. They're illegal where you come from too.
 
2009-02-13 06:32:56 AM
Good headline, I LOL'd.
 
2009-02-13 06:38:26 AM
J_Marshall: Fizics, texastag:
The 'lazy stoner' stereotype is over.

In the evening after my family has gone to bed I sometimes burn one down and play some guitar/ walk the dog/ waste some time on fark. I'm a good father, work for an engineering firm, volunteer time teaching ESL, and have run a mile a day for every day this month (so far) average time is 11 minute mile.


I'm guessing the gym is 2.36 miles from your house then?
 
2009-02-13 07:00:16 AM
OneEye: Can anyone tell me how we can legilze drugs without having stoned out farkers walking down the street because as liberal as I am, I don't want these people next to me on a bus or hanging around kids in a park.I never hear from you people on how we can keep those who do want to do it from those that don't.


How do you stop someone with a bottle of whiskey or a case of beer?


We can't. We can't prevent folks from doing it even after we spend tens of billions yearly trying and even more putting them in jail when we catch them. The only down side to legalizing it is that tens of thousands of police will be out of a job.
 
2009-02-13 07:28:13 AM
I knew they were not former US Presidents when the article referred to them as "respected".
 
2009-02-13 08:07:06 AM
Goetz: Login: 3_Butt_Cheeks
Fark account number: 407394
Account created: 2008-05-31 01:17:59
Submitted links approved: 6
Name: El Jefe
Location: Yuma, AZ

It's "people" like this that keep me reading Fark.
As the Germans say: "Wenn Dummheit schmerzhaft waehre, wuerden deine schreie kein ende nehmen" or something.


Go smoke a bowl asshammer. Your troll fu is weak.
 
MFL
2009-02-13 08:26:05 AM
I don't get it. Legalize drugs...but ban smoking. Get your shiat straight libs.
 
2009-02-13 08:31:01 AM
 
2009-02-13 08:34:10 AM
Why are Farkers complaining about the War on Drugs? You voted *for* a continued War on Drugs by supporting a president who was for it.

Ron Paul is against the War on Drugs...and against the bailouts, and against "faith based" programs, and against illegal wiretapping, and against just about everything Farkers are against, yet he was regularly mocked on Fark.

Now that's irony.

/or stupidity
 
2009-02-13 08:36:02 AM
MFL: I don't get it. Legalize drugs...but ban smoking. Get your shiat straight libs.

One can only assume if they legalize smoking pot, that it will have the same restrictions as tobacco - i.e. don't smoke it where other people are breathing, unless they want you to.
 
2009-02-13 08:46:15 AM
All Latin American countries should just get together and legalize drugs. Then it's just America's problem, and maybe we will start a real conversation about it.
 
2009-02-13 08:47:35 AM
The only thing that will solve the drug problem is more spanking. We're several generations into a population that has no concept of taking personal responsibility.
 
2009-02-13 09:21:55 AM
gpellis: Just busted three kids at school with slinging marijuana, so I'm getting a kick out...

You're now farkied as "Narc"
 
2009-02-13 09:23:09 AM
A little late to the party, so I just thought I'd let everyone in on a little secret (since very few will see this). The war on drugs is purposely ineffectual. Do you really think that the security agencies of the United States couldn't completely eliminate the illegal importation of such a large amount of marijuana and cocaine if they wanted to? The sources of these drugs could be wiped off the face of the earth within days if the decision was made to do so. This is a conspiracy with insiders implanted within the DEA and various other organizations. By allowing the flow of drugs to remain, but remain illegal at the same time, it maintains the status quo. Both Democrats and Republicans know of this scheme. The Republicans see it as a way to incarcerate the poor and minorities whom they feel would commit a crime at a later period anyways, and the Democrats see it as a way to win votes - by appearing to oppose harsh punishment for drug crimes. Both parties see this as a way to maintain major economic superiority in the region, by making the trade of what could be a very valuable export to many Latin American countries a black market.

If you think there's anything that's going to ever change this, you're sorely mistaken.
 
2009-02-13 09:25:54 AM
muckin refarkable: There may be some truth to that. I remember reading about a smallish software company that decide to start testing their programmers. Most came up hot and were canned. The company almost went broke trying to replace them and had to ask them back with the promise of back pay and no more testing.

/If I'm not doing it at work, it's none of your goddamn business.


I've written code when I'm drunk, and it's not half bad.

I wonder what it would be like to write code stoned.

\Has never smoked weed
\\Now I want to try it more than ever
 
2009-02-13 09:39:00 AM
ZachF81: Do you really think that the security agencies of the United States couldn't completely eliminate the illegal importation of such a large amount of marijuana and cocaine if they wanted to?

Yes.

I think you give the government way too much credit for competence.
 
2009-02-13 09:47:14 AM
I wonder what it would be like to write code stoned.

Mine usually comes out the same, but it takes longer.


/that's what she said
 
2009-02-13 10:00:07 AM
Fizics: People that believe that the war on drugs has failed obviously havent counted the amazing contributions made by police in deterring future incidents of drug addiction such as D.A.R.E. and other youth-orientated programs.
...


I have to assume this is a troll, but I guess it could just be an idiot.
 
2009-02-13 10:08:25 AM
Lee451:

And what are their illegal immigrants doing to our fair land? I challenge anyone (who does not speak Spanish) to wander throu7gh Arlington, Va., Annandale, Va or Rt 1 in Woodbridge Va. You probably will n ot be hassled but you will not be understood either.


Que?
 
2009-02-13 10:08:41 AM
tyshy: I have a bubbler that I purchased on election day, and it's name is Bowlrack Obonga, and it's fantastic. It's sorta like a bowl but sorta like a bong, regardless, it's change i can believe in. Also, it's red, white, blue (for 'merica), but it's also black and green, for his irish and africani history.

Thought i'd share, that is all.


Awesome :-)
 
2009-02-13 10:09:27 AM
In most cases legalization or decriminalization leads to lower usage rates as it removes the bad-ass look of breaking the law.
 
2009-02-13 10:11:17 AM
simpsonfan: What they do now isn't working. But if this garbage were legalized, they should still prosecute for drug related crimes. Like beating someone up while under the influence, stealing stuff to buy drugs, etc. Though not the actual buying, selling, or using.

It is already illegal to beat someone up or steal stuff, so what change besides legalizing the drugs would have to be made exactly?
 
2009-02-13 10:14:34 AM
I guess I never understood why some people care so much that it's legalized. Does it matter that much? Why not just do without?
 
2009-02-13 10:31:25 AM
texastag: Yeah, we need more brain dead zombies whacked out on cheap drugs in this country. You pack of ignorant farking morons. What do you think will happen when the drugs are cheap and easily obtained? Do you think people will show calm restraint and just have a cool puff of weed every now and then to relax? No, they won't. There will be thousands of ODs and deaths of both the users and the people they kill in driving and other accidents or in drug induced dementia. I would be all in favor of weed legalization but it wouldn't stop there. If you legalize one that opens the door to legal challenges for the others. Then, they will eventually have to legalize them all. There will be no distinction between what one person may consider a drug that can be used casually and responsibly or one that is dangerous in the hands of any "responsible" adult over 21. There would be incredible strain on our medical system. The outcry and demand for rehab clinics and drug treatment centers will skyrocket. All the money generated in tax revenues and more will vanish after being spent on treatment centers. The amount of waste and fraud that another bloated government bureaucracy would create will be vastly greater than the amount currently spent on prevention and incarceration.

You haven't thought your cunning plan through.


Thanks for the enlightened analysis, Dr. Texastag. Clearly you are an expert in your field, and your hypothetical musings are a portent of things to come.
 
2009-02-13 10:42:39 AM
Electriclectic: I guess I never understood why some people care so much that it's legalized. Does it matter that much? Why not just do without?

Let's check the first sentence of the article:

"The war against drugs is failing and the U.S. government should break with "prohibition" policies that have achieved little more than cram its prisons and stoke violence"

Seems reasonable, even logical. Add to that the tax revenues it would generate and how can one be against legalization whether they partake or not?
 
2009-02-13 10:46:02 AM
texastag: Yeah, we need more brain dead zombies whacked out on cheap drugs in this country. You pack of ignorant farking morons. What do you think will happen when the drugs are cheap and easily obtained? Do you think people will show calm restraint and just have a cool puff of weed every now and then to relax? No, they won't. There will be thousands of ODs and deaths of both the users and the people they kill in driving and other accidents or in drug induced dementia. I would be all in favor of weed legalization but it wouldn't stop there. If you legalize one that opens the door to legal challenges for the others. Then, they will eventually have to legalize them all. There will be no distinction between what one person may consider a drug that can be used casually and responsibly or one that is dangerous in the hands of any "responsible" adult over 21. There would be incredible strain on our medical system. The outcry and demand for rehab clinics and drug treatment centers will skyrocket. All the money generated in tax revenues and more will vanish after being spent on treatment centers. The amount of waste and fraud that another bloated government bureaucracy would create will be vastly greater than the amount currently spent on prevention and incarceration.

You haven't thought your cunning plan through.


*checks other countries where drugs are legal*

Wow, you couldn't be farther off.
 
2009-02-13 10:47:47 AM
Electriclectic: I guess I never understood why some people care so much that it's legalized. Does it matter that much? Why not just do without?

What if I told you that you couldn't go out to buy cigarettes or beer? Even if you don't smoke or drink you should tell me to go fark myself.

I stopped smoking pot years ago, but I care about having the right to do it. You're telling me that I can't grow a plant? Really? And I do not comprehend the logic that alcohol is legal and pot isn't. In my opinion I should have the right to do whatever I want to my body as long as I'm not hurting another person.

Texastag, if we legalize one we'll have to legalize more? One IS already legal. I'll give you 10 guesses as to what drug it is.
 
2009-02-13 10:57:01 AM
GnomePaladin: *checks other countries where drugs are legal*
Wow, you couldn't be farther off.



Ummm, what other countires where drugs are legal?

Can you post a list? Should be a very very short post.
 
2009-02-13 11:13:35 AM
Electriclectic: I guess I never understood why some people care so much that it's legalized. Does it matter that much? Why not just do without?

I couldn't give a crap about using the stuff myself. I just want to stop the expense, violence, no-knock searches, and other "collateral damage" from the ongoing war, and I want to reduce the profits of criminal enterprises.

One possible exception: coca is a bit of an appetite suppressant. I could possibly use that (coca gum or something of that nature.)
 
2009-02-13 11:22:10 AM
Fizics: People that believe that the war on drugs has failed obviously havent counted the amazing contributions made by police in deterring future incidents of drug addiction such as D.A.R.E. and other youth-orientated programs.

The druggers are just angry because they cant go down to their local drugstore and buy the pot along with their Cheeto's so they can remain the picture of laziness and uselessness to society. Keep this drug illegal, it makes so maney people lazy and shiftless and video-game drooling smacktards.


Lol...I'm in college and i still have my D.A.R.E. lanyard from 4th grade (that I use). it does little but get some laughs as we're passing the bong.
 
2009-02-13 11:28:54 AM
me_the_farker: Can anyone tell me how we can legilze drugs without having stoned out farkers walking down the street because as liberal as I am, I don't want these people next to me on a bus or hanging around kids in a park.I never hear from you people on how we can keep those who do want to do it from those that don't.

/not a troll


but you have no problems with cigarettes smokers or drunks, right? they can hang out with you all they want, right?
 
2009-02-13 11:33:04 AM
ThrobblefootSpectre: GnomePaladin: *checks other countries where drugs are legal*
Wow, you couldn't be farther off.

Ummm, what other countires where drugs are legal?

Can you post a list? Should be a very very short post.


You're right, it's a very short list, but that is irrelevant. I shouldn't have re-framed the argument.

The real question is: Does prohibition reduce drug use and availability while also reducing drug-related crime and increasing public safety? Since the answer is a resounding 'No' on all counts (quite the opposite on the last one actually), how can any sane person advocate continuing the policy?
 
2009-02-13 11:37:29 AM
me_the_farker: Can anyone tell me how we can legilze drugs without having stoned out farkers walking down the street because as liberal as I am, I don't want these people next to me on a bus or hanging around kids in a park.I never hear from you people on how we can keep those who do want to do it from those that don't.

They already are, you just didn't notice. In case you hadn't heard, "Reefer Madness" isn't a documentary.
 
2009-02-13 11:39:21 AM
gunsculptor: I love how this is coming from representatives of countries that have the most to gain from free trafficking and "export" the greatest volume of drugs to the US. clearly an objective, unbiased source.

dumbass most of the US pot is domestic, not imported.
 
2009-02-13 11:40:52 AM
While it's easy to dogpile on loudmouth ignorami like Texastag, it's far harder to deal with this type of willful blindness when it comes up in everyday life.

Both of my parents are extremely bright, well-traveled and thoughtful people. One evening, not too long ago, we were discussing my recent trip to Amsterdam. We all agreed that it is one of the prettiest, most interesting and most livable cities in all of the Western World. No question about it.

Not an hour later, the conversation had turned to the pros and cons of decriminalizing cannabis. (A totally different avenue of discussion led us there.) Both of my parents expressed their deep concern over what would happen, overnight, to the youth of our country if such a thing were to happen in our cities. My word! It would be a horror show!

It simply didn't occur to them that such a scenario IS NOT HYPOTHETICAL AT ALL. There are actual cities with just such actual policies in place, and have been for a very long time. ONE THAT WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING, IN FACT. They knew it, of course...but they didn't considerit.

Facts don't tumble into place and form new ideas if part of your head doesn't want them to.
 
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