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(MSNBC)   Gunmaker wins appeal. Self responsibility makes a comeback   (msnbc.com) divider line 87
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6448 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jan 2003 at 1:39 AM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-01-28 01:41:31 AM
Was anybody else freaked out when they scrolled down and came face to face with Jesus?
 
2003-01-28 01:42:45 AM
I would just like to say thank you to this judge.
 
2003-01-28 01:42:52 AM
Hows the saying go? Charleton Heston is my President.
 
2003-01-28 01:43:08 AM
Jesus was on there? I got a bunch of Red X's.. I have one of those host files that turns off ads.
 
2003-01-28 01:43:40 AM
Hell yeah!

/me tries to think of witty "guns don't kill people...." saying
 
2003-01-28 01:44:44 AM
We will never be responsible for ourselves, it's unthinkable, it's unbelievable, heck...it's plain un-American. Tort law is ok every once in a while though.
 
2003-01-28 01:46:08 AM
I'm not thrilled with the concept of handguns, what with their sole purpose being to maim or kill people, (you can kiss my ass if you think I'm buying that you hunt with yours), but I don't believe that people should give up any of their constitutional rights either. I'm of two minds about this one. About freakin' time with the self-responsibility thing making a comeback though. I was wondering when people were going to grow up a bit.
 
2003-01-28 01:47:21 AM
PressedBlueShirt: Took the words right out of my mouth.
 
2003-01-28 01:47:29 AM
jesus used to be my atternee but he ran awy
 
2003-01-28 01:48:58 AM
She claimed Valor could have made the gun safer by installing a lock or other device.

Sorta defeats the purpose of making a gun.
 
2003-01-28 01:49:26 AM
I now totally ignore ads, I had to go back to the page to see what you were talking about. (an ad for some books about Jesus, it might be something else whey you surf there)

Anyway, YAY!
 
2003-01-28 01:50:18 AM
Wish I'd read to the bottom before posting.

Valor Corp., with 14,000 licensed firearms dealers nationwide, argued that the gun did what it was designed to do and was not at fault.

Can't argue with that.
QA Trial #10982:
Test Subject: high school teacher
Results: Flawless
 
2003-01-28 01:52:16 AM
Hooray!!! About time someone realized that being anti-gun is not solving the problem. I actually saw a very cool independent film called "Bowling for Columbine" that talked about all the gun violence in schools. It was interesting that Canada, who also has a very strong tradition of hunting, has a comparable amount of guns to the US, but definitely does not have the problem with gun violence the US has.
 
2003-01-28 01:54:40 AM
There goes my lawsuit against Drew for all the Nair* I use on my palms.

*does not constitue a commercial endorsment, user may experience some discomfort, use in well ventalated area, intentional misuse may result in loss of keyboard cover,checks will not be honored
 
2003-01-28 01:56:09 AM
Next thing you know, someone will be suing Cutco because the next time you steal a knife from a friend, swipe at a teacher in a threatening manner, and accidentally slit a vein and kill them, its Cutco's fault for being sharp.
 
2003-01-28 01:56:57 AM
Um, self responsibility definitely isn't a real phrase. Lemme guess, poster is from the south.
 
2003-01-28 01:59:21 AM
Wow, fark html code has rendered me unable to duck after making that comment. Ah well.
 
2003-01-28 01:59:49 AM
I am so happy about this, I'm going to avoid the gun control flamewar looming on the horizon as a little treat to myself.
 
2003-01-28 02:00:43 AM
Unusually sane.
 
2003-01-28 02:02:59 AM
I saw this Law & Order. Anyone else?
 
2003-01-28 02:03:45 AM
Atalanta:

I think the problem with the US is that they've run out of animals to hunt. Plus, it's probably more sporting if the game shoots back.

Isn't declaring war a form of of declaring "open season"? No bag limit, and the trophies (aka medals) are awarded byu by the government.

"Yep Zeke. I reckon I bagged me two I-raqies during the big hunt of '03."

"Nice shootin' Cletus. Dat 'der oughta feed the family 'til next winter."

Happy hunting, snapperheads.
 
2003-01-28 02:04:50 AM
I_Hate_Iowa

I did too, I think. As I recall, McCoy went after the gun company didn't he? I think he won, too, but I'm not sure.
 
2003-01-28 02:05:29 AM
 
2003-01-28 02:06:00 AM
I can't believe people would go so far as to try and sue the gun company because the gun killed someone. Like they pointed out... that's what guns are for: killing. I can't see, even in the most twisted explanation, how Valor Corp. could possibly be responsible for that kid stealing the gun and shooting his teacher. That's jacked.
 
2003-01-28 02:06:53 AM
01-28-03 01:46:08 AM Sheilanagig wrote:

"I'm not thrilled with the concept of handguns, what with their sole purpose being to maim or kill people, (you can kiss my ass if you think I'm buying that you hunt with yours),"

They're inanimate objects, their sole purpose is to neither hunt, maim, kill nor defend, but rather to do what the owner decides.
 
2003-01-28 02:08:10 AM
Bender:

Actually, the movie suggested that the Americans are hyped up on fear, due to the influences of the media, politicians, etc.

I was really very amusing. They interviewed a bunch of Canadians, all of whom said they leave their doors unlocked. The director clearly thought that they were full of sh*t, so he started walking around a roandom neighborhood and walking into people's houses. A lot of people really did leave their doors unlocked.
 
2003-01-28 02:11:26 AM
Man, I'm not for gun control, but I hate Charleton Heston. He is the biggest *sshole ever!!!!!
 
2003-01-28 02:34:49 AM
AlleyKat, I can't think of one thing anyone would think a handgun was good for except to maim or kill people. Yes, you could hammer nails with them, you could pick your teeth with them, you could use them to prop up a table-leg, but there are a lot of things that would work better, and you'd almost have to think of them first. No, I'd say that the best use a handgun suggests for itself is to maim or kill people with it.

I'm not saying that we should have the right to keep and bear arms taken from us, but it's a sad commentary on the world we live in when people buy handguns to protect themselves from all of the other people with handguns. I read somewhere that mankind is not psychologically equipped to deal with the power that such weapons give them. They make it so easy to hold the power of life and death over some other person, regardless of size or strength. Maybe I'm just thinking aloud, but it seems like we need to reassess our entire way of thinking, our entire societal structure and evaluate why so many of us think we need guns.
 
2003-01-28 02:44:44 AM
For AgentQ:

Charleton Heston:

Guns don't kill people, horseriding Apes with guns kill people!
 
2003-01-28 02:45:45 AM
...er, horse riding...
 
2003-01-28 02:48:55 AM
One wonders why the founding fathers went on and on (and on and on) about the importance of private firearm ownership.
 
2003-01-28 03:10:29 AM
Sheilanagig
My friend and I both use our handguns for hunting. My friend used his Thompson T&C Contender chambered in .44 Mag to shoot a 6 foot Black Bear, at a range of oh, about 30 yards this past fall.

Ever have a cougar stalk you? or have to go into the brush after a wounded bear? A rifle is way too long, heavy and awkward to use. I rely on my handgun, literally.

It's not my fault your some scared emotionally insecure person who is frightened by handguns. A handgun is no different than an arrow, or a knife, or a sharp stick, a brick, or countless other objects. If a person wants to commit bodily harm to someone, they will find a suitable object to carry out there intent. Would be kind of nice to be able to defend yourself when some drugged wacko decides he wants to invade your house now wouldn't it?
 
2003-01-28 03:14:05 AM
We think we need guns, Sheilanagig, because we do, now that they exist. Before they existed, the worst weapon you had to face was a bow or crossbow. Everything else was pretty much artillery or melee. Melee was winnable through skill and strength, so it was honorable in that you had to look your opponent in the eyes as they died and it took effort to accomplish. Now that guns exist, no one with access to one is going to use a melee weapon unless it's a blackjack to the back of the head, or someone's in your house and they don't see you yet. Equipping yourself with anything other than a gun puts you at an even greater disadvantage from a self defense standpoint, because the drop will be had on you and you'll be a threat to the gun-wielder. That is why we all need guns now. Kinda the way the nuke stalemate works. Either we all have one, nobody has one, or we all do what the guy with one tells us.

And you can't knock hunting until you've tried it. I have a single shot, break-stock 12 gauge, so I can't do much besides hunt with it. I haven't yet, since I just got it a few months back and hunter safety courses are a biatch to get into, but that's what she's for mainly. Lord knows I'd love go deer-hunting with a spear, but I haven't made one yet, and I'm not sure if the DNR has any provisions for doing things the right way.

So guns are generally nasty and evil, but owning one is a necessary evil now. I love the feel of the cold steel in my hands, but I'd be happier with a sword or halberd. Weaponry is just a part of nature like death and bunnies. Some animals have poison, some have sharp teeth, we have the ingenuity to make things that do the same thing. Guns are just so convenient that they're our only choice now.
 
2003-01-28 03:41:13 AM
Not being funny, guys, but when I go hiking I usually take someone along who can't run as fast as I can, just in case I run into a cougar or a wounded bear. I figure I'm safest that way.
 
2003-01-28 03:42:28 AM
I have a Farking Arsenal...
Second Amendment Rules...
Hippie's suck Arse...
and Guns cause crime like flies cause garbage...



/NRA Forever
 
2003-01-28 03:51:58 AM
 
2003-01-28 03:52:01 AM
Sputnik456, I don't knock hunting. (not unless you mean do I mind doing all the butchering, etc. work after the men go out and have all the fun, that is.) What I meant to say with that comment is that by and large rifles are suited to hunting. I have a hard time swallowing any statement from a gun-lobbyist that they use their fully automatic assault rifle to hunt deer, and their .45 is a backup in case their wounded quarry charges them. I guess I agree with the idea you put forward regarding melee weapons. You had to think twice about how bad you wanted to hurt or kill someone when you had to face them and give them a fighting chance to do just as much damage to you.

Nostrafarkingtdamus: easy killer! God, who pissed in your wheaties? It's not my fault you've got an innie and need a gun to substitute for your obvious lack of penis. Yes, I know everyone has guns these days, but I was trying to say that we'd have been much better off if the damned things had never been invented. It's much too dangerous to put something so powerful in the hands of a bunch of overgrown children.
 
2003-01-28 03:53:22 AM
OHHH Yeah, Atalanta...Heston IS God.
Gun Control doesn't work because criminals don't care about laws in the first place...
Nostrafarkingdamus is right - after handguns were all but rounded up and destroyed in Mass., stabbings went up 165%... Also look at what has happened to the violent crime rate in England since they turned Socialist (completely)... and finally The People's Republik of Kalifornia has some of the strictest gun laws in the country - don't you feel safer now while walking through Compton?
 
2003-01-28 03:54:29 AM
Click here to enlighten yourself

...be sure to check out "A Brief History of America"
 
2003-01-28 03:55:42 AM
'Melee was winnable through skill and strength, so it was honorable in that you had to look your opponent in the eyes as they died and it took effort to accomplish.'

I'm with ya that melee combat favored the strong, but I'm not so sure that the personal gravity associated with stabbing someone in the back/clubbing them upside the head, as opposed to hitting them with a projectile, acted as much of a deterrence.

It doesn't take too much effort to stab someone who doesn't know how to use melee weapons, either. If one was a peasant, this was almost certainly the case; in most places, commoners were not allowed to train with weapons.

The fundamental motivation behind gun control predates guns. It is about controlling the distribution of power.
 
2003-01-28 03:59:09 AM
Sheilanagig - I don't remember seeing any mention of hunting or gun type in the Second Amendment, could you point that part out to me...Also, I have never committed a crime in my life, why shouldn't I be able to have an automatic weapon? They are fun to shoot. (at paper or trees not people)
What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" don't Democrats understand?
 
2003-01-28 04:04:14 AM
Chichomang, when did anyone say I was a democrat? Take that back! I don't subscribe to political parties and their bullsh!t. I think they're all crooks.
 
2003-01-28 04:07:57 AM
Sorry - That Democrat thing was taking it too far, nobody should ever be labeled that...My apologies, however liberals count too.
 
2003-01-28 04:13:01 AM
Ok. I'll amend what I said too. I'm not saying there's anything we can do about handguns now. They're probably here to stay until we invent a mass-produced lasergun or something. What I'm saying is that I wish they had never been invented. It won't change anything because I feel that way, and I understand that people want to be able to defend themselves with the same level of technology as their would-be attackers. I just think that it reflects our culture of paranoia and fear. Guns give us something to threaten others with and something that genuinely makes us feel threatened.
 
2003-01-28 04:23:46 AM
But the human race might not even be around today without guns (a bit of a stretch but think about it). I don't feel scared or paranoid or at least I didn't until I was awoken at 6AM on New Years Day 2002, two guys broke into my house - I am at least 25 mins from police (conservatively). Thank god I had my AK-47 and an uzi model A for my girlfriend. No shots needed to be fired, the mere sound of the AK chambering a round scared them off. I don't know what I would have done if I actually had to shoot them. That's scary - I value human life tremendously, that's why I value the 2nd Amendment tremendously...The way I see it, the 2nd amendment may have saved my life or stopped my girlfriend from being raped or beaten and tied up. I am thankful that I don't have to cower in fear if/when my home is intruded upon - I don't live my life fearful or paranoid just realistically and prepared...I understand your point, but there is no such thing as utopia, starvation, AIDS, and taxes prove that.
 
2003-01-28 04:37:42 AM
I just wish that people would learn to understand the concept of responsibility. That is why I object to guns. It's not people like you who value human life that scare me, it's the ones who have guns and don't appreciate the responsibility they carry when they have one. It's the men who broke into your house carrying handguns that worry me. Gun control laws don't work. I know. I lived in the UK for 5 years. Not only did the criminals still have guns, but the lack of guns among the general populace didn't stop them finding whatever came to hand to assault someone else. Apparently at a recent funeral for a prominent London gangster a cop and a gangster were overheard having a conversation that went something like this:

Cop: do you know what the difference between you and me is? The difference is, I have a gun and you don't.

Gangster: No. The difference is, you have a permit for yours.

Maybe it was made up, but in any case, it illustrates the situation. However, crime in the UK has a different flavor. It's more organised crime than it is petty crime. You don't have armed housebreakers, by and large. If you knock down an old lady and take her purse and anyone you know finds out you did it, they'll either drop a dime on you or you'll get beaten within an inch of your life. There's more respect there, they seem to have more capacity to imagine that the old lady could have been their old dear. Also, if you wanted a gun in the UK, you had to know someone. You had to go to a bit of trouble to get one. A bit more, I might add, than you have to go through here. Not because anyone wants to know what you want it for, but you have to have enough credibility to convince them to undertake the risky business of selling a gun to someone. For all they know you could be an undercover cop. It works out that if you did commit a violent crime with that gun and someone got hurt or killed who wasn't a criminal themselves, the person who sold it to you would probably point a finger straight at you in a heartbeat. As I said, it's different. Maybe not much better, but different.
 
2003-01-28 04:48:59 AM
Yeah I agree with just about everything you said...But what are you gonna do about farking idiots?...We liscense vehicles and drivers, but that doesn't stop morons from drinking a fifth of Chivas Regal and hopping in the drivers seat...Bottom Line there is no easy answer, but I am sure that restricting law-abiding citizens from owning/concealing handguns or long guns is not the remedy to the problem...also, I feel that the background checks which are already in place are effective, at least they force criminals to deal with other criminals in order to get guns... There are more laws governing guns in the US than there are pertaining to any other issue...I would however be willing to accept one more - a mandatory jail sentence (not 2 weeks in county lockup) for people convicted of gun violence, 1 strike only, ...however this law would have to be carefully crafted as to not jail the guy trying to protect his family for manslaughter or something like that.
 
2003-01-28 05:38:15 AM
 
2003-01-28 09:04:38 AM
SabreWulf07 Has summed it up nicely.

I would however like to read one anti-gun position that has anything to do with the world I live in. If you don't like guns don't have one. Don't worry about me.. you'll be lucky if I only shoot you.
Gun control= two slugs in the same hole.
 
2003-01-28 09:06:46 AM
Personal accountability?!? What a refreshing thought. Let's see if it takes, eh folks?
 
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