kronicfeld: The idea in cases of abuse is not to put the victim on the street immediately, but to give that person time to get their shiat together and then move out. If this guy didn't like it, then he probably shouldn't have clobbered his live-in girlfriend.

Now here's the thing: temporary restraining orders are emergency measures that are granted without a shred of evidence. The whole idea is that it's a "better safe than sorry" thing - better separate them before something bad happens.

So in that case, why do we treat the alleged abuser any worse than the alleged victim? Until there's a conviction, they're both innocent persons in the eyes of the law. So why do we let one of them get control of the combined property and not the other?

By all means, once you've got him convicted with a crime, run him out of town. But until then? Aren't there constitutional protections about this sort of thing?

I don't know if lawyers tell people to make fake claims of domestic violence. I do know that temporary restraining orders are filed all the time as almost a first step in a divorce proceeding, often when they are not needed, and usually it seems, to game the proceedings and put the male out of a house and on the streets and not to protect the woman from any real danger.

And if the lawyers here don't admit to knowing that, they are too stupid to represent clients or just plain liars.

ne2d, I'm looking at you.

DigitalCoffee
Since, apparently, everything is in his name why not just call the phone/power/water companies and have everything disconnected? Get a PO Box and have all the mail re-routed as well.

I hope every genius posting ideas like this realizes he has to get the court on his side to get back into the house, and that cutting off utilities to a mother with children during the middle of winter JUST MIGHT not be looked favorably upon by the court.

mofomisfit: Thisbymaster
Report trespassing, she gets locked up. Whats the problem?

He should have done this the very second she refused to leave his house, he should have called the cops, hired a lawyer, and pursued it. I'm not saying he doesn't have my sympathy, because he does, but in hindsight an ounce of prevention could have been worth a pound of cure.

She'd been living with the guy for 8 months at that point he'd have to evict her and give her 30 days notice.

austerity101: I was skeptical, until I read that she has kids. All laws and reason then go out the window.

He's farked ;o)

Inibrius: He's been barred from going within 5 blocks of the house...regardless of if she's there or not.

You could hire a locksmith and have a friend oversee it. Although I like the AR-15 approach...

If not for the two assaults on his girlfriend and her mother, this would probably turn out drastically different.

Moral of the story:
Alacritous: tell the woman to incite the man into hitting her

Grow a spine and learn to control your own limbs rather than doing whatever someone "incites" you into.

Obdicut:

What would the penalty be for a lawyer who advised this, and it was discovered that the woman had actually followed his advice?

Do you realize you are saying that family lawyers regularly advise their clients to break the law?

I do like how you've now stepped this back into urban legend territory, though.


You don't believe there are any lawyers out there that would advise their client to do something that would allow them to win?

Bwahahahahaha!

Guy's an idiot. He should've told her to leave, and when she refused called a friend to come over to act as witness. Ask her to leave again, then call the cops and have her escorted out.

If I were him, I'd sell the house and let a realtor deal with getting her out. He's in a no-win situation right now, he's going to have to suck it up and realize this is a very expensive lesson: never invite a women to live in your home unless you're willing to marry her. And then make sure you get a prenup saying the house is yours, will always be yours, and she has to leave if you tell her to.

Obdicut: Alacritous: I've talked to a few women that have had their lawyer tell them this. You can believe me or not, I can only tell you my experience.

Ask yourself this:

What would the penalty be for a lawyer who advised this, and it was discovered that the woman had actually followed his advice?

Do you realize you are saying that family lawyers regularly advise their clients to break the law?

I do like how you've now stepped this back into urban legend territory, though.

In this instance, the woman and the lawyer wouldn't be breaking the law. It's not against the law to antagonize someone, and it's not against the law to tell someone to antagonize someone else.

It would basically be setting a perfectly legal trap for someone, and if they fall for it, it's their own problem. That said, if you assault someone who pisses you off, you probably are getting what you deserve, anyway.

kronicfeld: El Chode: Why doesn't he file suit for trespass or even conversion?

Because the family abuse protective order statutes likely allow the court to allow her to remain in the house for a reasonable period of time. The idea in cases of abuse is not to put the victim on the street immediately, but to give that person time to get their shiat together and then move out. If this guy didn't like it, then he probably shouldn't have clobbered his live-in girlfriend.

Ok, understandable. But does she have a right to THAT home? Unless there's nothing but an empty igloo around that area of Canada, I'm sure she could go sleep in a Bob Evans or find some sort of hotel, like the rest of the single moms.

Oh, speaking of mothers, is the mother homeless? Is there not a couch in her place. Sure, she can be entitled to shelter, but not an entire house.

This is the reason that aside from bar prep I intend to not go anywhere near family law.

"he hit her" isn't a valid reason to take away the guys rights to his house and property. It is a good reason to move her into a shelter.

Seacop
Report trespassing, she gets locked up. Whats the problem?

He should have done this the very second she refused to leave his house, he should have called the cops, hired a lawyer, and pursued it. I'm not saying he doesn't have my sympathy, because he does, but in hindsight an ounce of prevention could have been worth a pound of cure.

She'd been living with the guy for 8 months at that point he'd have to evict her and give her 30 days notice.

He'd have to follow the law in his jurisdiction pertaining to eviction, yes, but if he'd started it up in October and had followed through the process calmly and diligently it would be over by now.

oh, and in case you're wondering, I did the legal research in places like http://www.canlii.org/en/index.php (new window), the Alberta courts system database.

Never date anyone who has less financial resources than yourself. If you decide to move in together for a trial period, you move into her place and keep your own in case it doesn't work out. It can be a real biatch to get someone you've broken up with to move out of your place.

/been there

Theaetetus: Grow a spine and learn to control your own limbs rather than doing whatever someone "incites" you into.

Over the years I've learned that a big smile and a few well-placed words will cause way more harm than any physical act.

kronicfeld: Because the family abuse protective order statutes likely allow the court to allow her to remain in the house for a reasonable period of time. The idea in cases of abuse is not to put the victim on the street immediately, but to give that person time to get their shiat together and then move out. If this guy didn't like it, then he probably shouldn't have clobbered his live-in girlfriend.

He asked her to leave in October. It's now February, what do you consider a reasonable amount of time?

What? You really want to give the defendant in a criminal case the authority to punish the prosecuting witness for cooperating from the authorities?

You "men's rights" assholes are crazy.

CaptainSmartass: And then make sure you get a prenup saying the house is yours, will always be yours, and she has to leave if you tell her to.

Well, they weren't married, but I'll bet he also didn't have her sign a lease or similar contract, either.

All you kids out there with roommates & live-ins, take note.

Get it in writing.

mofomisfit: He'd have to follow the law in his jurisdiction pertaining to eviction, yes, but if he'd started it up in October and had followed through the process calmly and diligently it would be over by now.

Is her name on a piece of paper saying she's entitled to be within the walls of that house? No. So she's not "evicted". She's told to leave.

ophite: What? You really want to give the defendant in a criminal case the authority to punish the prosecuting witness for cooperating from the authorities?

He doesn't seem to be guilty of anything. Merely a defendant in a system that is inherently biased against defendants.

El Chode
mofomisfit: He'd have to follow the law in his jurisdiction pertaining to eviction, yes, but if he'd started it up in October and had followed through the process calmly and diligently it would be over by now.

Is her name on a piece of paper saying she's entitled to be within the walls of that house? No. So she's not "evicted". She's told to leave.

That obviously worked out very well for the gentleman in question.

Alacritous: A favorite tactic of family court lawyers is to tell the woman to incite the man into hitting her. it gets the man locked up and the woman can lay claim to the house. It usually happens in divorces. I don't recall ever hearing it happen in a BF/GF relationship.


When my ex and I divorced her lawyer asked if I abused(hit) her and maybe could she get me to try...


/Her lawyer was her mother's cousin. She told me years later, also told me her lawyer suggested she take the lowest paying job she couild find (9.00 hr pushing a broom for her church when she has a BS and a years worth of AutoCAD training)


/Maybe urban legend in your eyes, but real in mine.

Some women... SOME women see a man with a house and a car and furniture and an income as a vending machine and they will butter up to that man just long enough to put a slug in the coin slot and start grabbing shiat.

And yeah, the whole "false domestic abuse charge to get him thrown out of his own house" thing actually does happen, occasionally.

There's a lot of jerks out there. Some of them sit down to piss.

Some people will do anything for property. If it's at the top of the list of things you and your girlie fight about, start quietly easing yourself out of that relationship and make damn sure you're ass is covered. If you're in love with somebody, you don't spend all of your time pissing and moaning about how you need access to all of their wealth. Some people think that a relationship is a contest that somebody wins. Avoid them.

kronicfeld: Including the wife's side of the story. And the parts of his story that he left out in singing his story of woe to you.


I knew both of them actually. and I understand completely that there are two sides to every story. and I made sure that he gave me as true to fact renderings of his encounters as possible. to the point that I forced him to remove some of the more colorful stuff from some of his filings. I perfectly understand that any version of events he told would be taken with a grain of salt and that any claims he made HAD to be verifiable and clear or they wouldn't mean jack shiat.

brigid_fitch: Inibrius: brigid_fitch: Thisbymaster: Report trespassing, she gets locked up. Whats the problem?

Does Canada have the same "communal property" laws as most US states? Where no matter whose name is on the property/bank account/car, both own half? If that's the case, she's not trespassing--the house is half hers.

They're not married. She doesn't own shiat. She needs to GTFO.

Okay, I'm a moran--DRTFA & made an assumption because I'm really pissed at how my friend in PA is being treated. But if they're not married, why the hell can't he just file for her eviction?

Meh - you're too cute to be a moran ;)

Anyway - doing a little more reading on this, the court blocked his eviction proceedings because of the RO.

This guy is farked.

biatches like this give women a bad name. She doesn't want to be with the guy, then she needs to GTFO. Not move her mother in and be a conniving asshat.

If the bills are in his name, and she's "paying" them, that means she's opening his mail. That's a federal offense. He needs to cut the utilities, and forward his mail elsewhere.

Stupid biatches like these are the ones I'm always getting left for... effing twat-waffles. I'm tempted to dig for an address and go beat her ass.

Alacritous: He was denied access to his kids, had his drivers license seized, was denied public benefits and had a whole host of other things done to him....
There's significantly more to his story than that, but I'll leave it there.

Yeah, I'm betting there's significantly more. Like, if they're seizing his drivers license, it wasn't just a regular divorce proceeding. There was probably some assault and battery involved, maybe drug use, reckless endangerment of the kids...

orat-on-a-stick: /Her lawyer was her mother's cousin. She told me years later, also told me her lawyer suggested she take the lowest paying job she couild find (9.00 hr pushing a broom for her church when she has a BS and a years worth of AutoCAD training)

Note to fellow farkers involved in this dispute: if at any point your arguments require somebody trusting the word of a lawyer, it automatically fails.

kronicfeld: If this guy didn't like it, then he probably shouldn't have clobbered his live-in girlfriend.

Well Internet White Knight Defender of Defenseless Women, why don't you tell us what you know about this case. Tell us exactly how he clobbered his live-in girlfriend. What precisely does it say he did in the allegations of domestic violence?

I had a DV call made against me for taking my sunglasses off and throwing them on the ground in a direction explicitly away from my ex.

So tell us what you know about DV charges, how "serious" they have to be. And tell us too what you know about no-drop rules.

mofomisfit: Seacop
Report trespassing, she gets locked up. Whats the problem?

He should have done this the very second she refused to leave his house, he should have called the cops, hired a lawyer, and pursued it. I'm not saying he doesn't have my sympathy, because he does, but in hindsight an ounce of prevention could have been worth a pound of cure.

She'd been living with the guy for 8 months at that point he'd have to evict her and give her 30 days notice.

He'd have to follow the law in his jurisdiction pertaining to eviction, yes, but if he'd started it up in October and had followed through the process calmly and diligently it would be over by now.

Absolutely, my point being that he couldn't just call the cops and have her locked up for trespassing. She's by legal definition, a resident.

incrdbil: Step 1: shut off all water and power to the house. Call in a locksmith, have the locks changed.

Step 2: Send the girlfriend a rent notice, equal to..oh 4 times the house payment. sue the crap out of her for damage to the property. Make it up.


These two conflict with each other. If she is sent a bill for rent, it gives her rights under renter rights laws. If she pays for nothing, then she has [more] limited rights.

You cannot disconnect the power or water on a renter. Period. You will go to jail in most states if you do.

You cannot throw her crap out on the lawn. In some states, you can have it moved to a storage facility, but you have to pay for the first month's lease. In other states, if you move it without a notice from the court, it is considered theft.


This guy's mistake is that after the second time he asked her to leave, he didn't call the sheriff. It may be your house, but you cannot drag her out. That's assault. You cannot throw her crap on the front lawn. That's theft, and it can lead to a property damage claim against you.

Driedsponge: In this instance, the woman and the lawyer wouldn't be breaking the law. It's not against the law to antagonize someone, and it's not against the law to tell someone to antagonize someone else.

It is against the law to advise your client to get someone else to commit a crime.

It is against the law to incite someone else to commit a crime.

Seacop
Report trespassing, she gets locked up. Whats the problem?

He should have done this the very second she refused to leave his house, he should have called the cops, hired a lawyer, and pursued it. I'm not saying he doesn't have my sympathy, because he does, but in hindsight an ounce of prevention could have been worth a pound of cure.

She'd been living with the guy for 8 months at that point he'd have to evict her and give her 30 days notice.

He'd have to follow the law in his jurisdiction pertaining to eviction, yes, but if he'd started it up in October and had followed through the process calmly and diligently it would be over by now.

Absolutely, my point being that he couldn't just call the cops and have her locked up for trespassing. She's by legal definition, a resident.

Ah, I see your point, yeah I agree with that.

Theaetetus: Alacritous: He was denied access to his kids, had his drivers license seized, was denied public benefits and had a whole host of other things done to him....
There's significantly more to his story than that, but I'll leave it there.

Yeah, I'm betting there's significantly more. Like, if they're seizing his drivers license, it wasn't just a regular divorce proceeding. There was probably some assault and battery involved, maybe drug use, reckless endangerment of the kids...

afaik, a lot of places will seize the driver's license for failure to pay child support. Which is a deadbeat thing to do, but sure as hell isn't the same thing as assault and battery or reckless endangerment.

binaryblue82: Stupid biatches like these are the ones I'm always getting left for... effing twat-waffles. I'm tempted to dig for an address and go beat her ass.

And they leave you? But you're such a catch!

Magorn: Part of being a man is controlling your shiat and knowing when to walk away

it becomes harder to do that when you come home from a days work to find the locks to your house changed and the woman standing in the window with her hand on the phone waiting to dial that last 1 when you do something impulsive.

She has to leave sooner or later, right? gotta go to work? Take over the house when she leaves, change the locks, move her stuff to storage to CYA.

Unless the restraining order prevents that too..

/drtfa

Mugato: If it's possible to incite a man into hitting a woman then he's a scumbag to begin with.

You never met my ex in-laws.

/and no I didn't, but I'd understand

Xillix: Wasn't this a movie with umm Liv Tyler and Matt Dillon, some horrid B Budget flick where she moved in and took over his life then he hired some hit man to do her in and she rides off into the sunset with the hit man?

I'd say it's closer to Pacific Heights myself...

binaryblue82: Stupid biatches like these are the ones I'm always getting left for... effing twat-waffles. I'm tempted to dig for an address and go beat her ass.

Guys... leave you?

:- /

:- \

Remember kids: You don't have to hit anyone for it to be 'assault'. Just yelling or being really mad will do.

/The more you know...