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(Some Cantabrigians)   City police: We've spent the last four years secretly installing a Homeland Security surveillance network. City council: WTF? Turn that thing off   (wickedlocal.com) divider line 222
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23286 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2009 at 9:41 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-02-04 02:15:37 PM
Theaetetus: Kinda.
You can temporarily blind a camera by shining a laser pointer at it - it overloads the CCD and the images goes blank. Arguably, you can do the same with an infrared laser, so you wouldn't have to blind people. Downside is aiming - to make it a camera-cloak, you'd have to have it shine in any direction a camera may be, and now you're talking a lot of power and therefore lack of portability.


itp.nyu.edu

Very Bright IR LEDs would be able to obscure whatever to any standard CCD camera with minimal power use. And theyre a bit less directional than a laser. A couple pointing different directions wired into a hat would probably be enough to just make your face show up as a bright blob on cameras.

Thats one thing mythbusters didnt try on their speed camera show, because ringing a liscense plate holder with IR LEDs would probably work AND be invisible to the naked eye.

/unless theres some reason i havnt thought of why this wouldnt work at all...
 
2009-02-04 02:18:35 PM
Witchydiva: "sorry, not my job" is a lame, lame excuse for not being an outstanding employee or an upstanding citizen of this country.

Not an excuse, a reality. I'm not a lawyer. Should I insist on re-writing my companies legal contracts? I'm not a janitor, should I insist on changing light bulbs and emptying the trash? I'm not Loss Prevention, should I insist on catching shoplifters? I'm not a Human Resources person, should I insist on interviewing job candidates?

If you see someone beating someone else to death, do you do nothing (not even notify the police) because "it isn't your job"? WTF?

Nice Strawman. I never said I wouldn't report an assault in progress. You asked "when you see your fellow non-cop citizens breaking the law, do you always report them?". No, I don't report every person on the freeway doing 1 mph over the limit. NO, I don't call the cops on every jay-walker I see. NO, I don't sweep the neighborhood for unlicensed cars and call 911. NO, I don't report every person stepping onto my lawn to retrieve a dropped item as trespassing.

Are you one of the useless Union employees? (not to be confused with the ones that actually work hard for a useful Union) "I won't change that lightbulb. It isn't my job"

I was hired to do my job. They were hired to do theirs. If you disagree with this, then you come here and do my job for me. Or STFU.

And NO, I'm not Union.
 
2009-02-04 02:22:42 PM
bunner: If he's not bullshiatting, and frankly, I don't think he is, yeah... he IS one of the good cops.

He admitted to discriminating and being violent. If he's one of the 'good' cops, I'm quite frightened to find out how bad the 'bad' ones really are.
 
2009-02-04 02:26:12 PM
Cyno01: Theaetetus: Kinda.
You can temporarily blind a camera by shining a laser pointer at it - it overloads the CCD and the images goes blank. Arguably, you can do the same with an infrared laser, so you wouldn't have to blind people. Downside is aiming - to make it a camera-cloak, you'd have to have it shine in any direction a camera may be, and now you're talking a lot of power and therefore lack of portability.



Very Bright IR LEDs would be able to obscure whatever to any standard CCD camera with minimal power use. And theyre a bit less directional than a laser. A couple pointing different directions wired into a hat would probably be enough to just make your face show up as a bright blob on cameras.

Thats one thing mythbusters didnt try on their speed camera show, because ringing a liscense plate holder with IR LEDs would probably work AND be invisible to the naked eye.

/unless theres some reason i havnt thought of why this wouldnt work at all...



While the cameras pick up the IR, there's very little glare from them. The camera just shows the bulb changing colors.

You can see for yourself with a standard commercial video camera. Point an LED pointer or even a channel changer at it while you look through the view port on the camera. While very noticeable, it's by no means blinding.
 
2009-02-04 02:28:26 PM
fredklein: Witchydiva: "sorry, not my job" is a lame, lame excuse for not being an outstanding employee or an upstanding citizen of this country.

Not an excuse, a reality. I'm not a lawyer. Should I insist on re-writing my companies legal contracts? I'm not a janitor, should I insist on changing light bulbs and emptying the trash? I'm not Loss Prevention, should I insist on catching shoplifters? I'm not a Human Resources person, should I insist on interviewing job candidates?


You must be an absolute joy to be around at home as well as in the office. I bet you take the last cup of coffee in the morning, and leave the pot on the burner because you aren't a maid/cook/caterer/janitor/coffee maker. You probably drop you trash wherever you want, because it isn't your job to put it where it belongs. I feel truly sorry for any roommates, children, and/or pets you may have.

Nice Strawman. I never said I wouldn't report an assault in progress. You asked "when you see your fellow non-cop citizens breaking the law, do you always report them?". No, I don't report every person on the freeway doing 1 mph over the limit. NO, I don't call the cops on every jay-walker I see. NO, I don't sweep the neighborhood for unlicensed cars and call 911. NO, I don't report every person stepping onto my lawn to retrieve a dropped item as trespassing.

You call my example a strawman, and then bring up a bunch of small, idiotic minutae in response? Understand the term before you cast it around.

I was hired to do my job. They were hired to do theirs. If you disagree with this, then you come here and do my job for me. Or STFU.


I am very glad you don't work for me or my company. Attitudes like yours are among the reasons why companies with great concepts behind them fail.
 
2009-02-04 02:29:11 PM
rubi_con_man
Dude - it's Cambridge, MA What do you expect? This is one of the major reasons that Boston needs to incorporate Brookline, Cambridge, Winthrop and Somerville.

Yes, lets destroy regional government because Cambridge doesn't feel like installing security cameras. BRILLIANT!

Ya, um ... no.

Cambridge and the other towns would not exist without Boston. Boston has the right to their revenue and their property tax base. Those town are not part of boston because they had were elitest enclaves when surrounding towns (dorchester, allston, cambridge) were commuter towns. They are now swamped by their own institutions, and need to be brought into the zoning and planning process with boston for future improvements. They are like Knives into the side of Boston's regional development.

/ifwe could only get a judge to declare it so...


That's not what you said, you said THIS was a major reason for incorporating them. Which is an incredibly stupid statement. What's only slightly less stupid is deciding to destroy the counties in order to bring autonomous towns into Boston for 'planning and zoning.'
 
2009-02-04 02:29:36 PM
ZackDanger: Theaetetus:
... justifying you in treating them with a higher degree of suspicion merely because they're taping you?

I need to apologize, my spelling and grammar has gone a little downhill in my last few posts. (I was a little distracted.)

Like it or not, there are things that create a higher suspicion even if they themselves may be legal.

If you were out of town for a week and I noticed a car that was driving back and forth by your house late at night, it would raise my suspicion.

Is driving on a public way at night illegal? Of course not.

I run their plate and find that they don't live in the neighborhood... again, not illegal to be in a different neighborhood, but it does raise my suspicion.

I find some "stupid" reason to stop them (maybe they are going 5mph over the limit... which is illegal by the way) and discover that there car is filled with burglarious tools and they are suspects in a series of house break-ins.

I just stopped them from taking all of the stuff you work hard for... because my suspicion was raised.

Is someone filming a cop illegal. Certainly not. However, it is unusual behavior, and therefor, will raise my suspicion.

Now if everyone did it, than it wouldn't be suspicious...


You must not live in Minneapolis then, people walk around with cameras filming the most random things ever. I was doing community service, and we had like literally 3 different people stop and start filming us (we were doing basic landscaping).
 
2009-02-04 02:30:25 PM
fredklein: bunner: If he's not bullshiatting, and frankly, I don't think he is, yeah... he IS one of the good cops.

He admitted to discriminating and being violent. If he's one of the 'good' cops, I'm quite frightened to find out how bad the 'bad' ones really are.


Even Tats, Czar, and BongoBoy don't grasp at straws like you do.
BEING discriminating and discriminating are two different things.
 
2009-02-04 02:31:36 PM
jhuseby420: You must not live in Minneapolis then, people walk around with cameras filming the most random things ever. I was doing community service, and we had like literally 3 different people stop and start filming us (we were doing basic landscaping).

Film school nearby? This happens here in Austin a bunch. Its neat to walk down the street and pass a shoot.
 
2009-02-04 02:31:53 PM
fredklein: He admitted to discriminating and being violent. If he's one of the 'good' cops, I'm quite frightened to find out how bad the 'bad' ones really are.

You should be. I am.
 
2009-02-04 02:39:22 PM
Witchydiva: jhuseby420: You must not live in Minneapolis then, people walk around with cameras filming the most random things ever. I was doing community service, and we had like literally 3 different people stop and start filming us (we were doing basic landscaping).

Film school nearby? This happens here in Austin a bunch. Its neat to walk down the street and pass a shoot.


Nope one looked like he was homeless (no idea why he was shooting, maybe he was a starving artist). And the other 2 were just random people walking around filming things. It's possible they were in an art or film school, there are plenty around there, but it seemed pretty random (and it wasn't a "shoot").
 
2009-02-04 02:39:35 PM
Witchydiva: Zack - gun jamming? No good gunsmiths in your part of the country? What do you have/how/when does it jam?

It's the dept's gun, and therefore I'm not authorized to take it myself and have an outside gunsmith work on it. (not that we have our own in house anyway)

What do I have? 1st Generation S&W Sigma. (.40)
When does it jam? About once every 7 rounds. (And I can assure you it's not my technique)

I should clarify... we are "upgrading" to S&W M&P's... Other depts have either Sig (my choice) or Glock... but our chief asked for $9700 to outfit 15 officers with EVERYTHING... so we were priced out of any other brand.

(The town told us we had to pick between new guns, or replacing the cruiser that is wholly unsafe to drive... my chief picked guns and told us we still have to drive the deathtrap. I refuse to drive it... having the steering go is a pretty crappy reason to die on duty if you ask me.)

I'm not even going to start on the basic items we don't have or are broken because our chief is weak and won't stand up for his officers.
 
2009-02-04 02:46:16 PM
Witchydiva: You call my example a strawman, and then bring up a bunch of small, idiotic minutae in response?

YOU were the one who asked ""when you see your fellow non-cop citizens breaking the law, do you always report them?"" (Emphasis added). NO, I don't "ALWAYS" report people who break the law. I report what I believe to be important enough violations of the law (such as the assault you mentioned). I can do that because it's not my job to enforce the law. If I was a cop, and it WAS my job to enforce the laws, I would have to enforce all the laws.

I was hired to do my job. They were hired to do theirs. If you disagree with this, then you come here and do my job for me. Or STFU.
I am very glad you don't work for me or my company. Attitudes like yours are among the reasons why companies with great concepts behind them fail.


When are you coming here to do all my work for me?? I know it's not your job, but you seem to think people should do other people's jobs, so....
 
2009-02-04 02:54:01 PM
ZackDanger: (The town told us we had to pick between new guns, or replacing the cruiser that is wholly unsafe to drive... my chief picked guns and told us we still have to drive the deathtrap. I refuse to drive it... having the steering go is a pretty crappy reason to die on duty if you ask me.)

See if you can work out a deal with the cab company.

Cabs have amazing maintenance garages.

Seriously.
 
2009-02-04 02:54:31 PM
ZackDanger: Witchydiva: Zack - gun jamming? No good gunsmiths in your part of the country? What do you have/how/when does it jam?

It's the dept's gun, and therefore I'm not authorized to take it myself and have an outside gunsmith work on it. (not that we have our own in house anyway)

What do I have? 1st Generation S&W Sigma. (.40)
When does it jam? About once every 7 rounds. (And I can assure you it's not my technique)

I should clarify... we are "upgrading" to S&W M&P's... Other depts have either Sig (my choice) or Glock... but our chief asked for $9700 to outfit 15 officers with EVERYTHING... so we were priced out of any other brand.

(The town told us we had to pick between new guns, or replacing the cruiser that is wholly unsafe to drive... my chief picked guns and told us we still have to drive the deathtrap. I refuse to drive it... having the steering go is a pretty crappy reason to die on duty if you ask me.)

I'm not even going to start on the basic items we don't have or are broken because our chief is weak and won't stand up for his officers.


Ick. I'm sorry you have to carry that POS right now. I've heard the M&Ps are a LOT more reliable, though I've yet to try one out. Any chance you can have the outside gunsmith evaluate your current piece, and do the smithing yourself? It may just be a small something out of place that you can fix by hand.

Your chief sounds like my boss, though our lives aren't on the line.
 
2009-02-04 02:56:08 PM
Theaetetus: Just had an interesting idea...

That's been done a bajillion times. Mythbusters even tested such devices and DIY methods (and found that they didn't work).
 
2009-02-04 03:09:48 PM
bunner: ZackDanger: (The town told us we had to pick between new guns, or replacing the cruiser that is wholly unsafe to drive... my chief picked guns and told us we still have to drive the deathtrap. I refuse to drive it... having the steering go is a pretty crappy reason to die on duty if you ask me.)

See if you can work out a deal with the cab company.

Cabs have amazing maintenance garages.

Seriously.


No cab companies in our area...

witchydiva The M&P's are WAY better than the sigmas... my gripe is that I got quotes and RFPs from SIG, while my buddy did the same with Glock, another with H&K... all reports submitted to the chief were thrown away without a look. He heard that S&W would trade out our Sigmas for cheap.

In my dept it always comes back to $$$.

My chief wont spend any. Period. Not sure why... he just refuses to and then lies to us about a lack of it. Whenever we can, we spend it and ask for forgiveness... but anything that requires a PO or similar, is a no go.

(He handed back $14k to the town that was left over in the budget from last year... $$$ that could have been used to fix broken equipment. Take a wild guess how much the town asked us to cut our budget by this year....)

I really shouldn't vent about my chief... just sucks when your boss doesn't want you to do your job, and then makes it difficult or dangerous when you are required to.
 
2009-02-04 03:10:14 PM
PSA:

Discussing any kind of police related topic with fredklein is an exercise in futility. He is incompletely irrational and unworthy of conversation.

That is all.
 
2009-02-04 03:15:45 PM
ZackDanger: witchydiva The M&P's are WAY better than the sigmas... my gripe is that I got quotes and RFPs from SIG, while my buddy did the same with Glock, another with H&K... all reports submitted to the chief were thrown away without a look. He heard that S&W would trade out our Sigmas for cheap.

S&W HAD to offer great trade-in deals for the Sigmas. They took a HUGE loss of reputation with them, and need to find some way of trying to "make it right". I still like how a SIG feels in my hand better than S&W, but that is just little 'ol me.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess... 14k was cut this year. Just a limb, though. I'm scared that something similar will happen here. We are short 2 people, and they got rid of the temp - so we are making it work, but I think they'll eliminate the positions rather than filling them. Since it is cheaper to pay each of us 20 hours of OT each week than to get a newhire.

FarkinHostile - yeah, I'm slow. I don't put people on Ignore, but there are a few who have gotten close - and fredklein is certainly one of them. Ah well, it takes all kinds, free speech, etc. They have a right to spew, I have the right to pass their posts.
 
2009-02-04 03:19:42 PM
Witchydiva: ZackDanger: witchydiva The M&P's are WAY better than the sigmas... my gripe is that I got quotes and RFPs from SIG, while my buddy did the same with Glock, another with H&K... all reports submitted to the chief were thrown away without a look. He heard that S&W would trade out our Sigmas for cheap.

S&W HAD to offer great trade-in deals for the Sigmas. They took a HUGE loss of reputation with them, and need to find some way of trying to "make it right". I still like how a SIG feels in my hand better than S&W, but that is just little 'ol me.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess... 14k was cut this year. Just a limb, though. I'm scared that something similar will happen here. We are short 2 people, and they got rid of the temp - so we are making it work, but I think they'll eliminate the positions rather than filling them. Since it is cheaper to pay each of us 20 hours of OT each week than to get a newhire.

FarkinHostile - yeah, I'm slow. I don't put people on Ignore, but there are a few who have gotten close - and fredklein is certainly one of them. Ah well, it takes all kinds, free speech, etc. They have a right to spew, I have the right to pass their posts.


Spot on with the cut...

Thanks for the pleasant conversation. I've really appreciated it.

And I agree... The Sigs feel great... I shoot nothing better. I think I'm going to use my tax refund for a new 229...

If you're ever in Mass, I'll buy you a drink.
 
2009-02-04 03:29:39 PM
ZackDanger: Thanks for the pleasant conversation. I've really appreciated it.

And I agree... The Sigs feel great... I shoot nothing better. I think I'm going to use my tax refund for a new 229...

If you're ever in Mass, I'll buy you a drink.


That reminds me... I need to give a friend back his 229..... I've had it for about 2 years now. :/ I bought a new 870 in December, so no new toys for me for a while. I'm trying to figure out how I want to build a 1911.

If you're ever in TX, let me know. Its a bit of a drive to make it to Dallas and Houston (much less El Paso) - but if you make it to Austin or San Antonio, I'll buy you one. :)

And to get back on the thread; I can even give you a tour of the cameras installed around here, and explain APD's no-refusal policy for breath tests. They're exciting...
 
2009-02-04 03:36:09 PM
Witchydiva: ZackDanger: Thanks for the pleasant conversation. I've really appreciated it.

And I agree... The Sigs feel great... I shoot nothing better. I think I'm going to use my tax refund for a new 229...

If you're ever in Mass, I'll buy you a drink.

That reminds me... I need to give a friend back his 229..... I've had it for about 2 years now. :/ I bought a new 870 in December, so no new toys for me for a while. I'm trying to figure out how I want to build a 1911.

If you're ever in TX, let me know. Its a bit of a drive to make it to Dallas and Houston (much less El Paso) - but if you make it to Austin or San Antonio, I'll buy you one. :)

And to get back on the thread; I can even give you a tour of the cameras installed around here, and explain APD's no-refusal policy for breath tests. They're exciting...


Only been to TX once... driving through... just stopped once in Amarillo for a pick at the Cadillac ranch.

In mass you can refuse the breath test at the station... but if you do it's an automatic 180day suspension (whereas if you blow and its over, it's only a 90day).

You'd be surprised how many people refuse to blow.

/Blow.
 
2009-02-04 03:38:48 PM
ZackDanger: Only been to TX once... driving through... just stopped once in Amarillo for a pick at the Cadillac ranch.

In mass you can refuse the breath test at the station... but if you do it's an automatic 180day suspension (whereas if you blow and its over, it's only a 90day).

You'd be surprised how many people refuse to blow.

/Blow.


You can refuse here, but if you do it on a no-refusal day it is an automatic trip to a blood bus or the station, after which a judge (on call for that purpose) will sign a warrant for a blood draw.

/you said blow
 
2009-02-04 03:49:31 PM
ha-ha-guy: I can think of 9 people that should be reelected.

that sounds high, I can only come up with 2.
 
2009-02-04 03:50:51 PM
Flab: Personally, I think this is more your standard, run-of-the-mill, sleazy politicans and greedy contractors at work, than Big Brother Surveillance.

sounds like both to me.
 
2009-02-04 03:54:02 PM
FarkinHostile: Discussing any kind of police related topic with fredklein is an exercise in futility. He is incompletely irrational and unworthy of conversation.

Todays logical fallacy is the ad hominem.
An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

Witchydiva: They have a right to spew, I have the right to pass their posts.

Pass all you want, but your refusal to answer the points I made speaks volumes.

/my turn to pass
//so don't bother replying.
 
2009-02-04 03:56:49 PM
fredklein: I'm not a lawyer. Should I insist on re-writing my companies legal contracts? I'm not a janitor, should I insist on changing light bulbs and emptying the trash? I'm not Loss Prevention, should I insist on catching shoplifters? I'm not a Human Resources person, should I insist on interviewing job candidates?

And NO, I'm not Union.


You may be none of these things, but you're kind of an asshole.

/just my opinion, of course
 
2009-02-04 04:06:02 PM
Tevo-D: / don't hate cops
// just hate the MA State Stormtroopers who universally seem to be a bunch of a-holes
</RANT>


its not just their police most people in that region are mass-holes.
 
2009-02-04 04:09:50 PM
Why not "Ironic", since Cambridge is the Ground Zero for all Bush-hating leftist pseudo-intellectual civil right self-loathing white Americans who you would expect to be the last to tolerate this sort of thing?

/If the correct adjective for "Cambridge" is "Canterbridgian", shouldn't the adjective for "Canterbury" be "Cambridgian?"
 
2009-02-04 04:11:41 PM
Veni_Vidi_Vici: You are either with the nwo, against it, or in the majority and completely ignorant of the real world and its existence.

Although I am against the NWO, I still do agree with them that there are too many people on the planet and they need to be culled but the question how to go about this.
 
2009-02-04 04:25:23 PM
Witchydiva

yeah, I'm slow. I don't put people on Ignore, but there are a few who have gotten close - and fredklein is certainly one of them. Ah well, it takes all kinds, free speech, etc. They have a right to spew, I have the right to pass their posts.


Yeah, I never use ignore, either. I hope that once in a while they might make a point. As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

fredklein

Todays logical fallacy is the ad hominem.
An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.



Wow, that's a big word. :)

See, the problem with that is statement of fact is not ad hominem. I haven't said a word about your "arguments" in this thread. I have addressed your "arguments" countless times in the past, and you ignore the answers or refuse to understand. I really don't care about your opinion, as you are completely powerless, and I acknowledge that it is a waste of time for ANYONE to debate you, as has been proven time and time again. If you had ever even once been reasonable, I wouldn't feel this way. It is clear you have a agenda, and you are pure in pursuing it, to the point of being a zealot. Until you stop being one dimensional, I can't be bothered.

Not only that, but I wasn't talking to you, as that is pretty much a waste of time, but to the others banging their heads against the wall that is you.
 
2009-02-04 04:35:42 PM
FarkinHostile: Witchydiva

yeah, I'm slow. I don't put people on Ignore, but there are a few who have gotten close - and fredklein is certainly one of them. Ah well, it takes all kinds, free speech, etc. They have a right to spew, I have the right to pass their posts.


Yeah, I never use ignore, either. I hope that once in a while they might make a point. As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day.


I'm thinking this guy is more like a 24-hour clock, and only has a shot at being right once a day.


Not only that, but I wasn't talking to you, as that is pretty much a waste of time, but to the others banging their heads against the wall that is you.

Hah.

www.operajaponica.org

/hotlinked
//To say the truth, reason and love keep little company together nowadays.
 
2009-02-04 04:36:30 PM
Cavinicus:
You may be none of these things, but you're kind of an asshole.


I'm an asshole because I do my job, and expect others to to theirs?
 
2009-02-04 04:45:55 PM
FarkinHostile: See, the problem with that is statement of fact is not ad hominem. I haven't said a word about your "arguments" in this thread.

That's the point of an ad hominem 'argument'. You don't argue the case, you insult the man ("incompletely irrational", "unworthy of conversation" ring a bell?)

It is clear you have a agenda

Bad cops are... bad. I want to get rid of bad cops.

Do you disagree with my 'agenda'?

If you had ever even once been reasonable, I wouldn't feel this way.

Define "reasonable".
 
2009-02-04 04:53:14 PM
fredklein

That's the point of an ad hominem 'argument'. You don't argue the case, you insult the man ("incompletely irrational", "unworthy of conversation" ring a bell?)


You mistake "observation" for "insult". I was NOT insulting you. Trust me, you would know it if I did.


Bad cops are... bad. I want to get rid of bad cops.

Do you disagree with my 'agenda'?


Nice try, but transparent. You have stated many times that there is no such thing as a good cop. Until you can acknowledge that there are far more good cops than bad, we have little to discuss.


Define "reasonable".

Not fredklein. :) Again, observation from experience.
 
2009-02-04 04:56:57 PM
FarkinHostile: Define "reasonable".

Not fredklein. :) Again, observation from experience.


Why come farkers always use reference instead of sense for definition?
 
2009-02-04 04:58:53 PM
FarkinHostile: Bad cops are... bad. I want to get rid of bad cops.

Do you disagree with my 'agenda'?

Nice try, but transparent. You have stated many times that there is no such thing as a good cop. Until you can acknowledge that there are far more good cops than bad, we have little to discuss.


Didn't want to take the bait?

Not supporting the President's agenda is unpatriotic. Do you agree with treason?

Abortion ends the life of a fetus.
Do you agree with murdering babies?
 
2009-02-04 05:02:06 PM
wyrlss: FarkinHostile: Define "reasonable".

Not fredklein. :) Again, observation from experience.

Why come farkers always use reference instead of sense for definition?


Because, no matter how cute letmegooglethatforyou.com is, argumentative farkers can go to m-w.com as easily as anyone else.

Besides, a person's action and attitude can be a very lively embodiment of a dry definition.
 
2009-02-04 05:03:41 PM
I'll admit that I made an ad hominem attack on fredklein. I felt that he was being unwarrantedly impolite towards ZackDanger (even for a Fark thread), since ZackDanger calmly attempted to respond to fredklein's points and even acknowledged that they had some limited validity, and fredklein came back calling for ZackDanger's head. To me, that's the kind of thing an asshole does.

/will defer to other posters with prior knowledge vis-a-vis fredklein and the po-po
//the man definitely seems to have a chip on his shoulder
///even my criminal defense colleagues don't hate cops that much
 
2009-02-04 05:09:00 PM
Yeah, if you look at "abuse of power" threads, you'll get fredklein.
On one hand, he has excellent ideas for what to do with bad police officers.
On the other hand, his litmus test for bad police officers may actually be that they have a gun and a badge.
 
2009-02-04 05:16:46 PM
ZackDanger: burglarious tools

Define your terms. Define, or it has no meaning.

Lockpicks? Legal.
Key blanks and a file? Legal.
Drill and other tools? Legal.
Pinning kit, pickle fork, push shaft and needlenose? Legal.
Freon/R134 and a cold chisel? Legal.

I can think of one, and I'm a locksmith. It wouldn't do any good on a house key, due to the way the pins are set, only cars which you don't case.
 
2009-02-04 05:25:06 PM
Sword and Shield: ZackDanger: burglarious tools

Define your terms. Define, or it has no meaning.

Lockpicks? Legal.
Key blanks and a file? Legal.
Drill and other tools? Legal.
Pinning kit, pickle fork, push shaft and needlenose? Legal.
Freon/R134 and a cold chisel? Legal.

I can think of one, and I'm a locksmith. It wouldn't do any good on a house key, due to the way the pins are set, only cars which you don't case.


Perhaps all-black clothing? A crowbar? A big sack?

;-)
 
2009-02-04 05:25:49 PM
FarkinHostile: Nice try, but transparent. You have stated many times that there is no such thing as a good cop. Until you can acknowledge that there are far more good cops than bad, we have little to discuss.

I guess it's a matter of definition.

What's your definition of "good cop"?

Here's mine: "A cop who obeys all the laws/rules/regulations they are supposed to, and enforces all the laws/rules/regulations they are supposed to."

Examples:
Good cop: "Hey, Frank. I saw you punch the suspect after he was restrained. I'm arresting you for assault."
Bad cop: "Hey, Frank. I saw you punch the suspect after he was restrained. I'll pretend I didn't see it."

Good cop: "Hey, officer Tanishqua parked illegally and she isn't on official business of any kind. I'm going to ticket her."
Bad cop: "Hey, officer Tanishqua parked illegally and she isn't on official business of any kind. I'll let it slide since she's a fellow cop."

Good cop: "Hey, officer Carlos illegally searched that car without legal reason to do so, and against the owner's protests. I'm going to report this violation of the drivers' 4th Amendment Rights to IAD.
Good cop: "Hey, officer Carlos illegally searched that car without legal reason to do so, and against the owner's protests. But who cares? The driver was being an ass anyway.

Good cop: "Hey, officer Smith shot someone in the back. I'll arrest her and confiscate her gun until the investigation (performed by an outside agency) is complete."
Bad cop: "Hey, officer Smith shot someone in the back. I'll let her go home on 'Paid Administrative Leave' while her fellow officers delay the investigation until the media has forgotten about the case."
 
2009-02-04 05:34:10 PM
Sword and Shield: ZackDanger: burglarious tools

Define your terms. Define, or it has no meaning.

Lockpicks? Legal.
Key blanks and a file? Legal.
Drill and other tools? Legal.
Pinning kit, pickle fork, push shaft and needlenose? Legal.
Freon/R134 and a cold chisel? Legal.

I can think of one, and I'm a locksmith. It wouldn't do any good on a house key, due to the way the pins are set, only cars which you don't case.


I defined burglarious tools earlier in the thread... it's not my term, its a term my state uses to describe instruments, when in their totality, and considering the setting and other facts, lead a reasonable person to believe that the person more likely than not was using them to perpetrate a criminal act.

So to speak.

In response to fredklein... I was answering his remarks... but not him. I figure that are in one form another legitimate fears or concerns that a more reasonable person may harbor.

No harm in using him for inspiration. But as I stated before, it is clear that he is not going to change based on my internet statements any more than I will start to believe that police officers are inherently corrupt based on his.

And for the record, the examples of illegal parking, shooting someone in the back, beating up a suspect. I have never observed any of my officers do this... well, all except for the chief parking in a handicapped spot while running into the town hall.

I did speak to him about it in private.

(By the way, I am available for hire to come and speak on behalf of reasonable and sane police officers. ;) )
 
2009-02-04 05:48:10 PM
Sword and Shield: ZackDanger: burglarious tools

Define your terms. Define, or it has no meaning.

Lockpicks? Legal.
Key blanks and a file? Legal.
Drill and other tools? Legal.
Pinning kit, pickle fork, push shaft and needlenose? Legal.
Freon/R134 and a cold chisel? Legal.

I can think of one, and I'm a locksmith. It wouldn't do any good on a house key, due to the way the pins are set, only cars which you don't case.


I got a little wordy and didn't do a good job answering your concern.

You are absolutely correct that none of those items are illegal to posses. But it is illegal to "posses burglarious tools." Those tools become burglarious depending on the context.

Just as it is not illegal to own a police scanner. It is however illegal to use one during the commission of a crime.

It may not be illegal to own a firearm. It is however illegal to use that firearm during a commission of a crime. (Armed vs. Unarmed robbery.)

You may legally be able to operate a motorvehicle on a public way... but you may not operate it on a public way if that space is also concurrently being occupied by a pedestrian in a crosswalk.
 
2009-02-04 05:52:14 PM
ZackDanger: Sword and Shield: ZackDanger: burglarious tools

Define your terms. Define, or it has no meaning.

Lockpicks? Legal.
Key blanks and a file? Legal.
Drill and other tools? Legal.
Pinning kit, pickle fork, push shaft and needlenose? Legal.
Freon/R134 and a cold chisel? Legal.

I can think of one, and I'm a locksmith. It wouldn't do any good on a house key, due to the way the pins are set, only cars which you don't case.

I got a little wordy and didn't do a good job answering your concern.

You are absolutely correct that none of those items are illegal to posses. But it is illegal to "posses burglarious tools." Those tools become burglarious depending on the context.

Just as it is not illegal to own a police scanner. It is however illegal to use one during the commission of a crime.

It may not be illegal to own a firearm. It is however illegal to use that firearm during a commission of a crime. (Armed vs. Unarmed robbery.)

You may legally be able to operate a motorvehicle on a public way... but you may not operate it on a public way if that space is also concurrently being occupied by a pedestrian in a crosswalk.


Very well. Now what's the one I'm thinking of, since you're one of the more reasonable cops I've seen? ;-)
 
2009-02-04 05:57:50 PM
rubi_con_man: Dude - it's Cambridge, MA What do you expect? This is one of the major reasons that Boston needs to incorporate Brookline, Cambridge, Winthrop and Somerville.

Oh, eww. Not Somerville.
 
2009-02-04 06:14:10 PM
Cavinicus: and fredklein came back calling for ZackDanger's head.

Where did I do that?
 
2009-02-04 06:18:36 PM
ZackDanger: And for the record, the examples of illegal parking, shooting someone in the back, beating up a suspect. I have never observed any of my officers do this...

So, you've NEVER seen any fellow officer break any law?

I'm sorry, but I find that hard to believe. I see it daily, and I'm not a cop, I don't spend all day with cops, either.

Where do you work? It's obviously a perfect place to live.
 
2009-02-04 06:25:36 PM
ZackDanger: You are absolutely correct that none of those items are illegal to posses. But it is illegal to "posses burglarious tools." Those tools become burglarious depending on the context.

But is it like 'Resisting Arrest"? You know, where the cops arrest you for Resisting Arrest. Which Arrest did you resist? The arrest for Resisting Arrest. It's circular reasoning all the way. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened with "burglarious tools": It's legal to own them, except in certain contexts. What contexts? Well, if you are acting suspiciously, for example. How were you acting suspiciously? Well, you had these burglarious tools....
 
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