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(London Times)   Why women hate it when their partners are laid off. Because men can do domestic stuff more creatively and efficiently than them, basically   (women.timesonline.co.uk) divider line 361
    More: Obvious  
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21698 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Jan 2009 at 7:51 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-02-01 01:35:21 AM  
Treat others as you would like to be treated.

You'd be amazed what happens when you do.

And you should be unsurprised what happens when you don't.
 
2009-02-01 01:36:18 AM  
R.A.Danny: Someone is livid that her womyns studies degree isn't paying off in the business world.

Yes and your oh so creative business degree is going to come in handy along with the 3 million other business degree holders crawling out of college right now. way to flood the market. And I'm majoring in linguistics, by the way. just in case you want to high-five yourself for guessing my degree.
 
2009-02-01 01:36:24 AM  
kikifafa: It takes time and I think you'll find that this attitude women have towards one another is slowly but surely dying out.

If you review some of the responses your "scared, angry, impassioned" crusade against "rampant ignorance and intolerance", you may notice that that ain't all dats dyin' out.

Hey, Cinderella. If you cut me, I bleed, just like you.

And so, to bed.
 
2009-02-01 01:37:39 AM  
whoflungpoo: I messed up. Now I can't claim incompetence in the kitchen to get out of shiat.

Did you learn nothing from Montgomery Scott? Never let the Captain know how competent you are!
 
2009-02-01 01:37:41 AM  
kikifafa: And I'm majoring in linguistics, by the way. just in case you want to high-five yourself for guessing my degree.

A linguist? That rumbling sound you hear is an avalanche of bad jokes headed your way.
 
2009-02-01 01:38:24 AM  
kikifafa: And I'm majoring in linguistics, by the way.

Enjoy your life as a linguistor.

I've been working for over 20 years.
 
2009-02-01 01:38:24 AM  
kikifafa: "For sure. I'll be certain to abort any male fetus in the future."

You have my wholhearted support. If I were that fetus and I were facing the prospect of being birthed and raised by you, I'd swim towards the hangar tip as fast as my tiny, developing legs could propel me.
 
2009-02-01 01:39:04 AM  
Hey, bunner, i don't say this often, but i dig the way you turn a phrase.

Very fresh. Thanks for that.
 
2009-02-01 01:39:07 AM  
felixecho: I think that all of you men who insist that women are useless and bad at everything should just give up on the whole girlfriend/wife thing. Go get another man. Sounds like you would be happier that way.

In my case, my wife is part of the problem, but only a little part. It's the other two snatches who are worthless f'n slobs. Were they to pull their fair share, I'd pull mine with a grin on my face. But #1, I have no leverage, #2 my wife won't do a damn thing about it, and #3 bodies are hard dispose of. My wife works hard, I don't expect her to also play Susie Homemaker. What I will not tolerate, though, is playing house n*gger for the lot of them just so my house isn't a scene out of a Jersey City landfill.
 
2009-02-01 01:40:13 AM  
towatchoverme: kikifafa: And I'm majoring in linguistics, by the way. just in case you want to high-five yourself for guessing my degree.

A linguist? That rumbling sound you hear is an avalanche of bad jokes headed your way.


Great. just what I need. I'm going now. have fun sleeping alone, guys.
 
2009-02-01 01:41:29 AM  
kikifafa: Great. just what I need. I'm going now. have fun sleeping alone, guys.

I'm sooo gettin laid tonight.

Occam's Chainsaw: hat I will not tolerate, though, is playing house n*gger for the lot of them just so my house isn't a scene out of a Jersey City landfill.

You don't know nothin' about birthin' no babies.
 
2009-02-01 01:41:52 AM  
towatchoverme: kikifafa: And I'm majoring in linguistics, by the way. just in case you want to high-five yourself for guessing my degree.

A linguist? That rumbling sound you hear is an avalanche of bad jokes headed your way.


img155.imageshack.us
 
2009-02-01 01:42:04 AM  
kikifafa: "Great. just what I need. I'm going now. have fun sleeping alone, guys."

Have fun dying alone.
 
2009-02-01 01:42:24 AM  
refrigeratorelf: Guys can certainly clean as well if they put their minds to it (my father was stay-at-home and he took care of household chores), but better? It is a very rare man who can clean better.

You need to hang out with better men.
 
2009-02-01 01:43:22 AM  
I find it extremely funny that today's "liberated" woman feels threatened by a man who can cook and/or clean better than she can.
 
2009-02-01 01:43:42 AM  
Zamboro: kikifafa: "Great. just what I need. I'm going now. have fun sleeping alone, guys."

Have fun dying alone.


i felt the heat from that burn WAAAAY over here.

Wow.
 
2009-02-01 01:45:18 AM  
bunner: Some things really were better in [previous decade / century, here], some aren't.

Yeah, and a lot of modern people of both sexes are lazy and don't know how to cook. I think it's because many modern people are horrifically immature until well past age 30.

I'm educated, I work, I can cook, do the bills, groceries, laundry, etc. This is called being high-functioning aka an adult. when I was in my 20's, not so high-functioning - and the men I knew then weren't any better, but that's the age group when people are the most er, active with the opposite sex.

Most people meet their partners when they are in their 20s, i.e. good-looking, but not very responsible (this goes for the men and the women that age). It difficult to predict which ones will become responsible/successful later and which will not, and some folks end up with someone who was really cute and fun when they were younger but not too good a long-term prospect.
 
2009-02-01 01:45:41 AM  
brewssuds: I find it extremely funny that today's "liberated" woman feels threatened by a man who can cook and/or clean better than she can.

Apparently "liberated" means totally lacking in homemaking skills.

Which does not describe my beloved wife, there are just some things about her that drive me nuts. I am sure the feeling is mutual.
 
2009-02-01 01:48:47 AM  
Everyone dies alone... Except my uncle Jimmy. He took 17 people with him...
 
2009-02-01 01:49:35 AM  
R.A.Danny: Apparently "liberated" means totally lacking in homemaking skills.

Which does not describe my beloved wife, there are just some things about her that drive me nuts. I am sure the feeling is mutual.


If she were 100% perfect in every way in your eyes, she'd be banging every swinging dick on the block. Just sayin', nobody's perfect perfect. Better the annoying little flaws you know than the strap-your-children-in-and-wave-goodbye-as-the-car-rolls-into-the-lake big flaws you don't.
 
2009-02-01 01:53:28 AM  
Better the annoying little flaws you know than the strap-your-children-in-and-wave-goodbye-as-the-car-rolls-into-the-lake big flaws you don't.

Sometimes those things manifest after years of sold, stable history. It happens with guys too, I'm sure, but the old saying IS "a woman marries hoping to improve him and a man marries hoping she'll never change"...

/relying heavily on cliches tonight...
 
2009-02-01 01:56:11 AM  
Man, what I wouldn't give to be the homemaker husband. Call me whipped, cal the man police to confiscate my balls, whatever. For many women, staying home and caring for the kids, cleaning up, doing dishes and cooking is slavery. You know what that is for men? Retirement. Most of us work our entire lives just so we can afford a deal that sweet. The only thing I'm good at would have me working long hours away from home and I hate the thought that I won't be able to see my kids as much as I'd like to, once I get around to having some that is. If I were married to someone who were content to bring home the bacon while I kept up the house, did chores/errands and spent time with the kids, I would be cloud farking nine. I think the reason we're hearing about a return to domesticity among women in the news lately is that women's lib wasn't so much about actually wanting to take on the role of bread winner, it was about asserting a woman's right to make that choice. Well, women have it now, as they always should have. The pay gap is still inexcusable but in every way that matters women have rights equal to men's, and in some cases in excess of men's. I'm thrilled about that, as a secular progressive I wouldn't have it any other way. I just wish that I could stay at home with my kids when I'm married, doing all the cleaning and tidying that I do anyways, all the grocery shopping, all of the dish washing, and so on and so forth. I don't grasp how that's a nightmarish existence for anyone. For me, that's a farking luxury cruise.
 
2009-02-01 01:57:28 AM  
kikifafa: The reason women statistically make less than men is that unfortunately we occasionally have to get knocked up to propagate the species and are out of commission for a little while to give birth to shiat heads like you.

That's simply untrue, especially since now men can take FMLA for newborns too, meaning we're out of commission also when we get fruitful and multiply.

I know it's purely anecdotal but I've noticed with older women that they are either unwilling to negotiate higher salary or raises - saying they'll be happy with whatever they get - or more strikingly don't acknowledge that they even have the option to do so.

That attitude doesn't seem to be as bad with the younger women I know who are pretty ambitious.
 
2009-02-01 02:01:08 AM  
kikifafa: And I'm majoring in linguistics, by the way. just in case you want to high-five yourself for guessing my degree.

Oh my god, did you really just type that?

You really want that low-hanging-fruit-on-the-lesbian-tree status, don't you?
 
2009-02-01 02:02:09 AM  
Occam's Chainsaw: n my case, my wife is part of the problem, but only a little part. It's the other two snatches who are worthless f'n slobs. Were they to pull their fair share, I'd pull mine with a grin on my face. But #1, I have no leverage, #2 my wife won't do a damn thing about it, and #3 bodies are hard dispose of. My wife works hard, I don't expect her to also play Susie Homemaker. What I will not tolerate, though, is playing house n*gger for the lot of them just so my house isn't a scene out of a Jersey City landfill.

Sounds like you need new roommates. Why are these people living there? Do you need the rent money? Can't you replace them with, say, a couple of graduate students (i.e. quiet, study a lot, rarely home)? If you and your wife own the house or hold the lease, you most certainly do have the right to set the rules. If your wife is the sort who takes in strays, tell her that having dysfunctional people living with you is disruptive to your marriage.
 
2009-02-01 02:03:12 AM  
MusicMakeMyHeadPound: You really want that low-hanging-fruit-on-the-lesbian-tree status, don't you?

This isn't about the woman she is, it's about the horrible human being she is, gender notwithstanding.
 
2009-02-01 02:03:32 AM  
Zamboro: I don't grasp how that's a nightmarish existence for anyone. For me, that's a farking luxury cruise.

A little story about the ex Mrs. Towatchoverme which may be of some use to you:

While she was on mat leave, i would come home every day to a chorus of "you have it so good, going out in the world and hanging out with adults while i am stuck at home with the kid, slaving away."

When it was my time for pat leave, she would come home and say "it must be so nice being at home with the kid all day while i go out and work and slave away."

The "takeaway" is that, for some women ... whatever THEY are doing at any particular time is ALWAYS harder and more degrading than what you are doing at the same time.

You cannot win with such people.

You just cannot.
 
2009-02-01 02:05:24 AM  
R.A.Danny: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: You really want that low-hanging-fruit-on-the-lesbian-tree status, don't you?

This isn't about the woman she is, it's about the horrible human being she is, gender notwithstanding.


Well, yeah. Also I want her to make me a sandwich.
 
2009-02-01 02:05:58 AM  
Magnanimous_J: hell, even Hilary Clinton likes a good slap on the ass every now and then.

I hate you. I hate you for saying this.
 
2009-02-01 02:08:28 AM  
MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Well, yeah. Also I want her to make me a sandwich.

She'll probably put peanut butter on it.
 
2009-02-01 02:16:51 AM  
Zamboro: Man, what I wouldn't give to be the homemaker husband.

If you don't mind your wife being a little bit older than you and/or something of a workaholic, you could probably find someone who'd be willing to have you be the homemaker. Many feminist academics have been arguing for a long time that rigid gender roles are limiting for both men and women, and that both sexes should have a choice. You do, you just have to find someone who doesn't mind the role swap (and actually be a decent homemaker- otherwise she'll soon be griping like the guys on this board with the lazy wives). But that ain't gonna be some 25 year old, they don't have any money. I know a guy in his 50's with a 40-ish wife who's an advertising executive, he stays home with the kids, cooks, cleans, etc. It can work.
 
2009-02-01 02:19:31 AM  
cloud_van_dame: Sounds like you need new roommates. Why are these people living there? Do you need the rent money? Can't you replace them with, say, a couple of graduate students (i.e. quiet, study a lot, rarely home)? If you and your wife own the house or hold the lease, you most certainly do have the right to set the rules. If your wife is the sort who takes in strays, tell her that having dysfunctional people living with you is disruptive to your marriage.

One is wifey's minor sibling; the options there are tough it out or she's homeless. The other is her best friend / my car payment. Thusly, tossing them in the street is only an option if I'm keen on divorce. We don't have interpersonal conflicts in the strictest sense, only an inability of me to tolerate living like a damn animal.

And threatening my wife does no good (and that would be construed as a direct threat). She's more than a little crazy and a firm believer in the doctrine of MAD. My options are literally only tough it out until one graduates and the other gets the hint when we move into a 1br apartment (~2yrs), or torch the place and never look back.
 
2009-02-01 02:28:10 AM  
Hai guys, is this the thread where people who continuously remain single for "for some unknown reason" bash the opposite sex and the rest of us just joke and jive each other about housework? ;)

www.cartoonstock.com

/laid off at the moment and pretty darn lazy around the house
//perhaps because he's still bringing in the most income, canadian EI just rocks that's all
///girlfriend is just young and still setting up career + genuinely loves to take care of me
////Its pretty damn sweet
 
2009-02-01 02:31:58 AM  
www.michaelkeatoncentral.com
 
2009-02-01 02:47:30 AM  
kikifafa: I find it hilarious that given just half a chance, the veil comes off and men turn into woman-bashing bigots. What the fark is wrong with all of you? You wouldn't dare say any of this to your mother because you know she'd fark you up.
You know what else is funny? We've figured out how to make sperm out of bone marrow, so you farkers have become obsolete.


Oh yah and...pot meet kettle; I hear you have a lot in common, right down to the mommy/daddy issues. Linguistics? You're making this far too obvious little one.
 
2009-02-01 02:54:13 AM  
Occam's Chainsaw: One is my wife's orphaned minor sibling, so the only options there are tolerate her or she's homeless. The other is her best friend / my car payment

This is a taking-in-strays situation. Maybe the kid needs to stay, but definitely should follow house rules...but since it's not your kid, it's kind of like you're the stepdad, maybe some forum on how to deal with stepkids would have advice? The friend should not have the right to trash the house, regardless of whose friend she is. Hmmm...how to communicate your position w/o it being interpreted as a threat - because that's not a threat, it's a statement of "hey, my interests also count for something here, and this person is not pulling their weight".Can you find a job? Can you get your wife to agree that everyone needs to pitch in on the chores, set up some kind of rotating chore calendar, and enforce it?

If you're the househubby, you're in charge of managing the house, think of it that way. Hell, set up a chore schedule even without your wife's permission. Then don't do the parts that they are supposed to be doing. You WILL get resistance, though, because right now the status quo is in their favor.

Trying to help, not exactly Dear Abby here.
 
2009-02-01 02:57:12 AM  
Occam's Chainsaw:

One is my wife's orphaned minor sibling, so the only options there are tolerate her or she's homeless. The other is her best friend / my car payment. There aren't really any interpersonal conflicts, save my inability to tolerate living like a damn animal. So really, unless I'm keen on divorce, booting them out won't work.

As far as taking it up with my wife, she's entirely too permissive and tolerates just about anything. Threatening her in such a manner would be... unwise (and trust me, she would construe it as a direct threat). She's more than a little bit crazy and a firm believer in the doctrine of MAD. My options boil down to either toughing it out until the teenager's gone and the roommate gets the hint when we move into a 1br apartment (~2yrs or so), or torch the place and never look back.


do you own a belt?

/a woman, a dog and a walnut tree.
//the more you beat the...the better they be!
///heard that on 'two fat ladies.'
 
2009-02-01 02:58:43 AM  
Occam's Chainsaw: cloud_van_dame: Sounds like you need new roommates. Why are these people living there? Do you need the rent money? Can't you replace them with, say, a couple of graduate students (i.e. quiet, study a lot, rarely home)? If you and your wife own the house or hold the lease, you most certainly do have the right to set the rules. If your wife is the sort who takes in strays, tell her that having dysfunctional people living with you is disruptive to your marriage.

One is my wife's orphaned minor sibling, so the only options there are tolerate her or she's homeless. The other is her best friend / my car payment. There aren't really any interpersonal conflicts, save my inability to tolerate living like a damn animal. So really, unless I'm keen on divorce, booting them out won't work.

As far as taking it up with my wife, she's entirely too permissive and tolerates just about anything. Threatening her in such a manner would be... unwise (and trust me, she would construe it as a direct threat). She's more than a little bit crazy and a firm believer in the doctrine of MAD. My options boil down to either toughing it out until the teenager's gone and the roommate gets the hint when we move into a 1br apartment (~2yrs or so), or torch the place and never look back.


When you are up against a wall, turn around.

I assure you that a broad and mind scope of better situations are at your beckon call.

The key is on the same ring as the others only somebody told you that they doesn't work anymore.

Try the key.
 
2009-02-01 02:59:24 AM  
Can't sleep.
 
2009-02-01 03:04:26 AM  
Um, how did this one woman's anecdote become "women," subby?

Having said that, is it supposed to surprise us that when a husband is suddenly around all the time due to unemployment, the wife becomes annoyed? Women whose husbands retired have been biatching about this for decades.

Newsflash: Women are every bit as territorial as men. Some are way worse.
 
2009-02-01 03:08:35 AM  
Wow, a man/woman bashing thread with Farkers/Farkettes generalizing about half of the population because they decided to have relationships and continue to have relationships with shiatty people.

Imagine that...

And Zamboro I wish my Quaker dad had grown up the way you did and loved work for the sake of doing something, instead of growing up to resent it. Teaching yourself that kind of work ethic after becoming an adult is much harder than having it ingrained since early childhood.

/I try to learn from other people's mistakes before I make my own.
 
2009-02-01 03:37:05 AM  
NCg8r: Fair enough! But in my case that doesn't really happen; we have a "speak out right away" policy that prevents any resentment from building.

Tried that. Worked for a few years, then became "You're always picking on me!" and "I never feel like I'm good enough!" When I would point out that maybe it was because she wasn't putting up the effort to BE good enough, she would say I was being mean. Honesty can be mean... Anyways, I eventually kept my mouth shut because it was easier to live peacefully.


I'm sorry to hear that. I won't pretend that it will work for everyone, but it works extremely well for my partner and I.

Resentment is a slow poison and no good can come from it.
 
2009-02-01 04:08:32 AM  
I agree, and that's why I'm getting out now... while the getting is good and while we can still remain in each other's lives without hating each other. No kids REALLY helps this be a possibility...
 
2009-02-01 04:50:21 AM  
Magnanimous_J: Silovik: But shiat, don't pay for dinner when your out and they become the 50's lady that still clings to old traditions.

Being in a relationship these days a financial investment for women. I pay for everything while my girlfriend spends all her extra money on clothes. When I bring this up, she tells me about all the lingerie she only buys because I like it. Ummmm. right.

Furthermore, I do most of the cooking and always keep the kitchen clean.

Sigh, my subscription to whipped is expiring next month. I need to renew.


Never, ever, ever, move in with a woman unless you are married to her. Dumbass men pushed this stupid idea, because they thought they'd get the milk for free.

Most women cannot cook, clean, or take care of you any better then you can care for yourself. Finances? I've never met a man better off financially after living with a woman for a couple years. What you save in rent is going out the door elsewhere.

Before you know it, you are fixing her car or buying a new couch because she doesn't like the one you already had.

You don't get laid more. Sure, the first couple months, but I get laid way more then my friends who live with their girlfriends.

Finally, I swear live in girlfriends cheat more. They already have one guy wrapped up, so they see if they can upgrade.

Don't farking do it!
 
2009-02-01 05:46:46 AM  
I grew up with both parents keeping pretty darn clean houses, so guess what I got taught? Yep. I can clean with the best of 'em and do it pretty darn fast/efficiently.

My husband is all about helping out, but wasn't taught how... so he's having to learn as he goes. Pain in teh butt for both of us.

Although we did find something kinda cool. He uses his electronic day planner on his cellphone to remind him when to do chores so he doesn't forget. I don't have to remind/nag him (which I hate to do) or do the chore myself (which I hate to do). And he gets to tell his phone to "fark off." if he feels like it. ;)
 
2009-02-01 05:48:47 AM  
I suppose this thread is almost dead, but the only one who had it right was Magnanimous J. Traditional roles existed for a reason: they worked. As the great G.K. Chesterton said, "Tradition is democracy extended through time."

As for most of you oh-so-cool Farker, you're so hen-pecked it's pathetic. You "boys" should turn in your man cards. My woman understands the truth, which is that the man is to be the head of the household. And I don't compromise on that, period.

But you capons have a good time now, y'hear?
 
2009-02-01 05:52:00 AM  
theoriginalslash: Um, how did this one woman's anecdote become "women," subby?

Having said that, is it supposed to surprise us that when a husband is suddenly around all the time due to unemployment, the wife becomes annoyed? Women whose husbands retired have been biatching about this for decades.

Newsflash: Women are every bit as territorial as men. Some are way worse.


Dude, if my husband and I could "retire" and just hang out with each other all day, I would be frickin' THRILLED!

What the fark is wrong with these people?!

/bitter
 
2009-02-01 06:42:42 AM  
A woman's work is never done!

Lazy.
 
2009-02-01 07:14:53 AM  
Zamboro: I was raised in a liberal quaker household by a father with strong objectivist leanings. Sufficed to say I was gradually conditioned to enjoy hard work and to undertake it of my own volition rather than being told to. It's funny because he was actually a big softie, would go overboard on gifts and was a really loving dad, he just believed strongly in productivity, and couldn't tolerate sloth.

I resented it a bit in my teen years when I was expected to work to afford my own car while classmates were given their own at 16. I hate vacuuming and mowing the lawn the most, but he was insistent on a clean home and a tidy yard. Eventually I talked him into buying a pair of roombas and a pair of robo-mowers, both of which would operate and recharge themselves autonomously, so my only real job was to clean and maintain them, which I actually sort of enjoyed.

Finally I moved out when I went to college. Huge relief, right? Finally I wouldn't have to leap at every job that needed doing, I could split it with my roommates and finally get some rest once in a while. WRONG! My roommates could not be bothered to do anything, ever. I had one who was from a similar household who was wonderfully reliable about doing chores but the rest were awful, including this one winner who would hide dirty dishes under furniture throughout the apartment in order to avoid washing them. Every time we'd move furniture we'd find a nasty surprise waiting underneath.

But a funny thing happened. I fell back into my old habits, pushing myself for lack of anyone else to push me. I wound up doing everyone's dishes, cleaning the apartment every Monday and so on and so forth. It didn't matter that I had hated my chores growing up, it was enough that I had been made to do them so that I associated the actual act with the benefits I enjoyed afterward (a clean home, a tidy yard). I had become accustomed to being pushed to be productive, so much so that in the absence of that pressure, I had learned to push myself.That association is what my dad meant to impress upon me, so that I'd be self reliant later in life. Either that or he figured that I owed him labor in exchange for food and shelter, if you knew him you'd realize it could really go either way. =]


All of this ties into the topic as in every relationship I've had, the significant other would sort of balk as I did my own laundary, cooked competently for myself (and for them) and still happily paid their way. They'd wonder what the catch was, then eventually shrug their shoulders and accept it. To this day I can't imagine setting out with the expectation that my wife should clean up after me, cook for me or clean my clothes. She needs to eat, too. Let her cook for herself, rather than for both of us. She has her own clothes, let her wash them rather than mine. She makes her own messes, let her clean up those, and leave mine to me. I'm after a girlfriend, not a second mother.


This. So. Much.

I think I'm going to show this to my wife. She thinks I'm the only person in the universe to want to clean. What she doesn't understand is that I dislike the chores, but I love the results of having those chores done.
 
2009-02-01 09:53:22 AM  
bunner:

*nods*

*scratches ass*

Once upon a time, people worked on a level of personal interaction instead of picking up whatever flag was thrust into their hands.

Now we think somebody wins.

Wins.

Yeah.. the marble farm is full of winners.

"Wins." *snort*

Mither 'o Jaysus.

All you have to do to start a Movement® is convince any given group that any other given group is screwing them out of something, regardless of the fact that other group ain't exactly shiatting in high cotton, either.


Holy shiat, THIS.

When did we start thinking of life with fellow citizens like a football game?


cuzsis: I don't have to remind/nag him (which I hate to do) or do the chore myself (which I hate to do). And he gets to tell his phone to "fark off." if he feels like it. ;)

I have to say, the nagging thing was probably the biggest annoyance (at least early on). Nagging generally put me into a position of not doing whatever it was until long after the nagging stopped. Of course this meant she'd have to do whatever it was. I get stuff done in a reasonable amount of time *if* I am not treated like a child or lazy servant.

kikifafa: Second, many women don't like each other because it's been ingrained in our heads that other women are competition for men, without whom we are nothing

Oh, bullshiat. Women just tend to be catty. It's genetics more than upbringing. The biggest problem with ultra-feminists (or any ideological slaves) is they can't be honest with themselves. I guess they're too bust being oppressed by their chosen opposition.
ompetition for men, without whom we are nothing.
 
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