MasterThief: I was all set to side with the Muslims until I read about their little secrecy oath. Yeah, no. You take public money, you get public scrutiny.

/pity they can't both lose

This.

I think that if there are charter schools that teach Christianity, there should be charter schools permissible for teaching any religion, including secularism. However, transparency is key.

Of course, given their location, I bet most of those taxpayer dollars are Muslims in the first place. It doesn't make it any better, but I'm sure the community is acting a lot like the larger Christian population when the ACLU goes after Christians breaking the law.

Like always, I find the ACLU is doing all it can to ensure equality, no matter who receives the axe.

threeinasack: I've seen a lot of religion centric public schools, granted not in the U.S. Don't really have a particular problem with it. But if it's illegal and against the Constitution then the school's in the wrong. Follow the law I (sometimes) say.


/Muslim.

Assalam Alaykum wa Rahmatuallahi Wa Barakatuhu.

And I was pompous enough to think I was the only one.

No Such Agency: BigJake:
Reminds me of an old joke: How does the ACLU count to 10?

1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

How do reactionary neoconservative tools count to ten?

"One, two, uhhhh... four? Aw screw it, git me a beer biatch, Rush is on!"

Simmer down there tough guy, I think the ACLU is right from time to time. I just thought the joke was funny.

Vangor: I suppose I don't quite understand this statement. Affirmative action is considered by some to be a form of discrimination and considered by others to be a method of eliminating discrimination.

Whichever it is, however, doesn't a business or school (assuming privately owned in both cases) have a right to choose who they employ or accept regardless of the criteria? And doesn't a person have a reasonable expectation of equality which does trump this? Are they not, therefore, fighting for the rights of individuals (despite being groups in either case)?

You're being very arbitrary. Either something is Constitutional or it isn't, and they are dedicated to protecting the constitution in their mission. If any of their positions are unconstitutional, then they are therefore hypocritical, whether or not they realize it. You can dress their positions up however you want based upon who the party is etc., but I still think they are hypocritical on a number of issues due to the Constitutional elements involved. Some will undoubtedly disagree with me, as there is disagreement on every subject imaginable, but that doesn't mean that all positions have equal merit or that all positions are consistent.

I'm an Atheist Minnesota tax payer, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies chapped ass over this happening in my home state.

Oh, this is just like the ACLU, everything in the name of "civil rights", always defending those musl... what?

I'm confused...

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: Vangor: Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: When the ACLU goes too far over the line it harms the very document it is purportedly protecting.

If law were straightforward, we'd not have lawyers. We can joke about how glorious the world would be in that moment, but we can agree the law is not so straightforward. I favor my legal interpretation, and not everyone agrees with me. So, we step.

I think you're missing my point. The ACLU is an advocacy group. I fully support their ability to advocate for whatever they want, I am merely pointing out that many of their positions are hypocritical or counterproductive (in my view, and in the view of many others) and therefore it harms their public relations and ability to advocate for legitimate goals. If they want to go forward with their legal claims despite that, so be it.

Any examples of any hypocritical or counterproductive positions come to mind?

alimansur: Before everyone goes and makes all crazy statements about islam, they should read up about it.

There are three widely accepted translations. Read the original one. The other two modern (revisionist) ones are for western indoctrination. The original is for hard-core jihadists.

Once you've done some reading, then *THEN* you can make all the crazy statements you want.

Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, and Shakir? I don't know what you're talking about. The first is more for generic reading, the second for technical literalism, the third for an attempted balance between the two. And these three aren't the only three "widely accepted." There's Maulana Muhammad Ali's Qur'an, which is incredibly rationalistic and designed to help organize by topic. There's also the Ali Unal Qur'an, which has a heavier focus on the metaphysical. Then there's AJ Arberry, whose Qur'an is more about maintaining poeticism.

In any occasion, all are english words that don't fully suffice the Arabic. Even if you took 5 of them and compared, without proper commentary and knowledge of Arabi, you aren't qualified to say a whole lot, especially about Jihad.

Donde esta "hero" tag?

jdmac: gweilo8888

I can't say whether or not that guy was a troll for certain, but I don't think it's out of line to call him one. It's really difficult to believe he's serious.

The ACLU are like the cops. Everybody hates them until they need to call them.

grinderman: jfarkinB So, Islam = Left, Christianity = Right?

Well, see, the conservative mind sees the left as supporting the fall of America and supporting ideologies which want to harm America, such as all those brown people in not-America places. And, since America haters all love each other ghey-style, Islam is, by default, a left-leaning religion.

/Aristocrats!

Meanwhile the progressives view anybody caught setting foot in a christian church as less than human and believe that the constitution doesn't apply to them.

The suit also alleges that there are prayers on the walls of the school entry and that teachers have participated in student prayer activities. Samuelson said the school has used its website to seek volunteers to lead prayers, and that it requires students and staff to dress in attire that conform to Islamic religion.

If you are going to have Separation of Church and State, it must be treated the same for everyone. No exceptions. That includes Public Schools making special accommodations for Muslims (Prayer Rooms) if they are unwilling to make those accommodations for other religions.

jso2897: The ACLU are like the cops. Everybody hates them until they need to call them.

If your car gets stolen you can count on a cop to take a report. If you happen to have a witness who can name the thief expect the cop to shrug and say "what do you want me to do about it?"

I don't trust the cops when my property gets stolen why the hell would I trust the aclu when my rights are infringed?

This comes under the heading of "trying to pull a fast one." Open a religious school? No problem. Try to get government funding for it by pretending it's actually secular? Tsk tsk and why bother? except for the pure pleasure of using our own system against us.

The Muslims have the West pegged as a bunch of dopes, besotted with liberal democracy and easily manipulated by pushing the right ideological buttons. What's sad is, it works.

skyrous: I don't trust the cops when my property gets stolen why the hell would I trust the aclu when my rights are infringed?

People like you are why I own stock in Tin.

Zaphod B.: We need a National Knife Association. I want to take my knife on planes again, please. If anyone tried to take over the plane with a boxcutter, I would eviscerate them. Otherwise, I'll just make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Once the ACLU recognizes my right to carry peanut butter on airplanes as free speech, and sues for that.

So true. If only the flying victims of 9/11 had the right to carry big-ass knives, 9/11 would never have happened. Them goat-farkers would have held up their box-cutters and yelled "STAY IN YOUR SEATS", and half the plane would have stood up and the Puerto Ricans would have flicked out their switchblades and the Chinese would have whipped out butcher knives and the reg'lar ole murkins would have flashed their Bowie knives and the blacks would have whipped out THEIR box-cutters and razor blades stuck in toothbrushes and assorted shivs and all the passengers would have said in unison "You gots a knife? Get this, motherfarkers!" and while the plane might still have gone down, it sure as shiat wouldn't be crashing into no towers.

And unlike guns, knives won't break the cabin pressure.

More knives on planes, please. Make sure that every flight attendant is armed with a ginsu, a ceramic knife, a pristine Wusthof, a scimitar, a battle-axe, and a hypo full of tranquilizers.

And give us our farking nail clippers back, morans.

/sarcasm... wait, what sarcasm?
//seriously, if the 'good guns make good neighbors' argument isn't bullshiat, we should all be allowed to carry farking broadswords on planes, for the safety of everyone
///if you are against knives on planes, but an NRA member, please punch yourself

BigJake: MBooda: tallguywithglasseson: I predict non sequiturs about the 2nd amendment.

Unsurprisingly, like you, the ACLU regards the 2nd Amendment as non sequitur.

Reminds me of an old joke: How does the ACLU count to 10?

1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

And how does the NRA count to 10?

2

No one gets a perfect score but I think the ACLU wins that one on the decision.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: If any of their positions are unconstitutional

We're back to the initial point, lines in the sand.

Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech

Does this mean I can threaten a person with violence, incite violence, or knowingly make false statements in order to cause harm? The law says no. How do you know what is or is not unconstitutional until it has been tried? How do you know if a particular definition applies until it has been tried?

Every time Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox posts, a nerd has sex.

MR_DING: Any examples of any hypocritical or counterproductive positions come to mind?

I gave some earlier in the thread. Affirmative action, gun control, negative free speech rights...

TheRaven7: Every time Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox posts, a nerd has sex.

I get the "angel gets its wings" reference, but that still makes no sense.

Nudge: I think that if there are charter schools that teach Christianity, there should be charter schools permissible for teaching any religion, including secularism. However, transparency is key.

Of course, given their location, I bet most of those taxpayer dollars are Muslims in the first place. It doesn't make it any better, but I'm sure the community is acting a lot like the larger Christian population when the ACLU goes after Christians breaking the law.

Like always, I find the ACLU is doing all it can to ensure equality, no matter who receives the axe.

I agree 110%. I don't think it's worth fussing and fretting much when community standards prevail. I don't fret about a creche in my town and I won't fuss about teachers getting off early for Ramadan in Michigan or public employees fleeing for Shabbos at 3pm on Friday in Teaneck, NJ. As long as the rules treat everyone equally, regardless of their religion.

I think it's best that the religious angle is kept out of any schools involved in public funding, for the good of the public as a whole AND religion in particular. Once you suck on that teat, momma hog gets a say in what you do. What religious person with honest morals would want that?

As long as the ACLU is targeting those using the power and/or $$$ of government to advance their particular religious views, well, then they are doing exactly what the founding fathers of the USA would want us to do.

Too bad it takes cases like this to make some "Christians" say "wait, what, they can do that with tax dollars?" Honest defenders of the Constitution were saying that all along.

I used to work at a place where the Jewish employees got to leave early on Friday for Shabbos and us Gentiles did not, so I have some perspective on what discrimination is about. Can you imagine the outrage if Christian employees got Christmas off and Jewish employees had to work for the same pay as those who got the day off? And based on that, I think if a Christian employer can make a reasonable accomodation to let Jewish employees leave early on Friday (at reduced pay, of course), and to allow Muslim employees prayer breaks at appropriate times (as unpaid time, of course), then employers are crazy not to, if that's any substantial portion (>5%) of your available labor force.

I'm OK with "rules is rules". As long as everyone gets the same consideration.

give me doughnuts: sseye: More knives on planes, please. Make sure that every flight attendant is armed with a ginsu, a ceramic knife, a pristine Wusthof, a scimitar, a battle-axe, and a hypo full of tranquilizers.

I call "dibs" on the battleaxe!

Well, *I* call dibs on the tranquilizers.

Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox: MR_DING: Any examples of any hypocritical or counterproductive positions come to mind?

I gave some earlier in the thread. Affirmative action, gun control, negative free speech rights...

TheRaven7: Every time Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox posts, a nerd has sex.

I get the "angel gets its wings" reference, but that still makes no sense.

You said it yourself: nerds don't have sex. Ever. To imply anything else only assists their escapism.

Keep posting, it's helping people go outside! Er, and then coming back inside...

WTF? I thought the ACLU were secret Muslims hellbent on their Christian witchhunt!

Lots of people might take the politically correct route and say "Well, your religion is your religion and I respect that."

Except I can't respect someone gullible enough to believe in sky fairies.

In any occasion, all are english words that don't fully suffice the Arabic. Even if you took 5 of them and compared, without proper commentary and knowledge of Arabi, you aren't qualified to say a whole lot, especially about Jihad.

I'm ordering my next fully suffice and proper commentary computer in Jihad, because, you know, I want to be qualified to say a whole lot. In the Arabic.
Maybe 5 of them. Is "Arabi" male or female? Not that it really matters.......
I can rent a camel....

sseye: BigJake: MBooda: tallguywithglasseson: I predict non sequiturs about the 2nd amendment.

Unsurprisingly, like you, the ACLU regards the 2nd Amendment as non sequitur.

Reminds me of an old joke: How does the ACLU count to 10?

1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

And how does the NRA count to 10?

2

No one gets a perfect score but I think the ACLU wins that one on the decision.

You forget: 2, written in binary, is 10 . . .

Cerebral Ballsy: give me doughnuts: sseye: More knives on planes, please. Make sure that every flight attendant is armed with a ginsu, a ceramic knife, a pristine Wusthof, a scimitar, a battle-axe, and a hypo full of tranquilizers.

I call "dibs" on the battleaxe!

Well, *I* call dibs on the tranquilizers.

Dammit! I wanted the tranks! Okay, I pick scimitar.

ACLU.
American Civil Liberties Union.

Fark, is it that hard to understand that means they WORK for Civil Liberties? C'mon, now.

/freepers = morans

My head just assploded

HoyaSaxa: Watch this story develop here:
Freeperland (new window)

That thread isn't nearly as psychotic as I expected. Pretty tame, really, by Freeper standards.

brantgoose: Religious madrassahs in Minnesota?

Good.

The world needs more blond suicide bombers.

Because clearly this school was training children to create C4.

TheRaven7: TheRaven7: Every time Can'tLetYouDoThatStarFox posts, a nerd has sex.

I get the "angel gets its wings" reference, but that still makes no sense.

You said it yourself: nerds don't have sex. Ever. To imply anything else only assists their escapism.

Keep posting, it's helping people go outside! Er, and then coming back inside...

Threads have topics, please attempt to stick to them. And if you choose not to, then don't expect people to magically know what you are talking about, which, for the record, I still don't.

I used to imagine something like this as an example of why religion should be kept out of public schools, to Christians who froth over such things. "Imagine a public school where the kids have to do Islamic prayers" blah blah blah. And lo and behold, there it is, well a charter school taking public tax dollars, but close enough.

\hopes a few Christian victim types wipe the spittle off their chins while lifting their jaws off the ground

All you Libtards pay close attention here. This is what happens when you decide you must kiss the ass of every minority group and go against the age old rule of the need of the many over the needs of the few.

Separation of church and state, yo.

FredoLaredo: All you Libtards pay close attention here. This is what happens when you decide you must kiss the ass of every minority group and go against the age old rule of the need of the many over the needs of the few.

Heeeeeyyy, look what crawled out of the gay marriage thread. I believe you're in the wrong spot little buddy. (moving slimy reptile back to troll cave). There ya go!

/They're so cute at this age!

Oh boy, its starting here now. It always starts like this, a school that has only a few "light" religious policies that seem "harmless" Then as the islamic community grows in the area, a few "radical" teachers pop up. then a few radical schools pop up, then a few riots pop up, then a few suicide bombers pop up, then sharia law pops up.

We need to put a halt on immigration from islamic nations.

Good.

There are many conservatives who are not religious and many liberals who are. Christians need to understand that this is exactly the reason we have that (slightly extra-constitutional) "wall of separation" between church and state. If you could fun one religion with tax dollars, you could fund any of them. Which means that churches would make it a point to focus even more of their resources on getting politicians into power. It happens with liberal AND conservative interest groups that are not religious in nature- I wish it didn't, but it would be worse with churches.

The other part of this is that an organization like thefire.org is also focused on defending constitutional rights. However, since they are focused specifically on free speech on college campuses, they frequently end up support conservative groups - in part because conservative groups can be targeted, but mostly because generally speaking the concepts of what constitutes "offensive speech" is determined from the a liberal perspective. I'm sure 40 years ago it was the reverse, and in either situation - the rights of the students were violated.

Moonbats often criticize theFire as being a right wing interest and suffer similar shock when they discover that they represent liberals too.

/waiting for "but the fire IS a conservative organization" references...

What Would Whoopty Do: Darth Invictus: You Minnesotans can thank Catholic Charities for the scourge of Somalis you're being saddled with.

After what they did to our peacekeepers over there, they get NO sympathy from me.

Actually it was George Herbert Walker Bush that brought them here.

And my ancestors came over from a different country, and so did yours. So what in hell is so wrong with it?

Some of my ancestors came here from Beringia during the Ice Age. The rest arrived in the 1650's.

So GTFO, n00b.

jfarkinB: General Vayo: About farking time they stopped playing favorites.

I could respect them if they actually took an even stance on all things, but most of the time their stance is very skewed to the Left. If they do more to keep Islamo-fascism at bay then I might even find the ACLU tolerable.

So, Islam = Left, Christianity = Right?

No, no, no.

Christianity = Right, Muslims* = Wrong

*and anyone else that doesn't worship jeebus