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(The Register)   As usual, it takes a foreign news source to call for an end to America's latest boneheaded legal policy: charging teens with "child pornography" crimes for photographing themselves nude   (theregister.co.uk ) divider line
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11552 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jan 2009 at 5:51 AM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-01-15 10:12:36 PM  
submitter: As usual, it takes a foreign news source to call for an end to America's latest boneheaded legal policy:


Well, you can't expect our elected officials to listen to lowly taxpayers can you?
 
2009-01-15 10:14:04 PM  
NAMBLA news agency.
 
2009-01-15 10:14:52 PM  
Q: Is it child pr0nography for *still posessing* those pics of nude fellow-15 year olds ... years later?
 
2009-01-15 10:20:23 PM  
But....but...THE CHILDREN!
 
2009-01-15 10:40:09 PM  
I liked the story to the right:
Lords, MPs go down on to the Erotic Awards

Hob-knobbing with the hoi polloi, fighting for your freedom. With flying penises
/flying penises........lol
//that's the first time I used lol on the intertubes....I'm old
 
2009-01-15 10:44:54 PM  
My 15-year-old son brought this story to my attention. It's very unusual that he knows about some current event before I do, since I spend 18 hours a day on Fark.

No, I'm not going to ask......

/don't really think he's up to this. Besides, I get the phone bill.
 
2009-01-15 11:15:08 PM  
NANNY STATE
 
2009-01-15 11:39:34 PM  
if a teen is looking at him/ herself after a shower in the mirror, is he guilty of watching child porn ?
 
2009-01-16 12:16:23 AM  

trouzourt: if a teen is looking at him/ herself after a shower in the mirror, is he guilty of watching child porn ?


Probably not, but if a kid takes a nude and sexually explicit self-portrait, prints it out and carries it in his/her pocket, that would most definitely be possession of child porn. A felony.

But I think the article makes a good point that prosecutors are overstepping the intent of the law.
 
2009-01-16 12:41:57 AM  
What's next? Child rape when they flog their own bishop?

/I think we've all been guilty of that when we were teenagers a time or 3...thousand.
 
2009-01-16 12:50:26 AM  
Now that I think about it, after hearing the rulings of the people who took pictures of cheerleaders and high school girls sports, is it illegal for me to still have my high school year book?
 
2009-01-16 12:57:38 AM  

Makh: is it illegal for me to still have my high school year book?


Everything will eventually be illegal.
 
2009-01-16 01:59:34 AM  

Cinletharwi: Makh: is it illegal for me to still have my high school year book?

Everything will eventually be illegal.


How To Build a Police State, Volume 1.

Step 1: Make everyone a criminal.
 
2009-01-16 02:54:27 AM  

Occam's Chainsaw: Cinletharwi: Makh: is it illegal for me to still have my high school year book?

Everything will eventually be illegal.

How To Build a Police State, Volume 1.

Step 1: Make everyone a criminal.


Indeed. They've already got 20% of teenagers according to TFA.

What if some random teen sends some (unsolicited) pics to somebody and then calls the cops on them? Good luck deleting them fast and trying to prove you didn't want the pictures at all. For a slighted girl, it would be even easier than a rape accusation in terms of ruining someone's life using the long dick of the law.
 
2009-01-16 05:23:17 AM  
I blame conservatives and their "Sexual Correctness."

/srsly
 
2009-01-16 05:55:25 AM  
I couldn't care less if these teens are photographing themselves, but how can any of them be so stupid as to be shocked when the pictures get passed around?
 
2009-01-16 05:57:09 AM  
This is why we need to colonize space - we really need to get away from the idiots
 
2009-01-16 05:58:16 AM  

WFern: but how can any of them be so stupid as to be shocked when the pictures get passed around?


All?
 
2009-01-16 06:04:52 AM  
I'm sorry, but anyone who uses the phrase "sexting" deserves to be shot.
 
2009-01-16 06:07:04 AM  
Hey, you have to give the prosecution props for consistency.

//As long as the law is applied consistently across the board, seems fair to me.
 
2009-01-16 06:07:06 AM  
Pics or GTFO
 
2009-01-16 06:10:10 AM  
Nanny State! Bad Teeth! Bad Food!

But enough about Florida...
 
2009-01-16 06:12:45 AM  

BigBooper: Pics or GTFO


img.photobucket.com

"Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?"
 
2009-01-16 06:19:09 AM  
Doesn't it take 12 people to convict? Is it so hard to find even one person on a jury who would have enough common sense to vote for acquittal?
 
2009-01-16 06:21:05 AM  
If I don't ever hear of goddamned kittypr0n ever again, it will be too soon.

When did it become an accepted topic of conversation in polite company under any circumstance? What part of it is worth repeating? Nothing.
 
2009-01-16 06:21:11 AM  

DeRosso: This is why we need to colonize space - we really need to get away from the idiots


This.

"Freedom, is what... Take jobs as they come - and we'll never be under the heel of nobody ever again. No matter how long the arm of the Alliance might get, we'll just get ourselves a little further."
 
2009-01-16 06:21:20 AM  
The problem is that sex-hating, sanctimonious prudes VOTE, and pandering to these types gives politicians HUGE boners.
 
2009-01-16 06:29:30 AM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: The problem is that sex-hating, sanctimonious prudes VOTE, and pandering to these types gives politicians HUGE boners.

founded the USA, and as a country we have always
been hugely puritanical where it comes to sex.

FTFY

That said: child porn is wrong, and I happen to think that its
inappropriate for teens to be sending nekkid and semi-nekkid
pics to each other. But, I don't think that counts as child porn,
and the laws should be amended as such.

Besides: when has behavior being inappropriate ever stopped a
teen?
 
2009-01-16 06:34:11 AM  
malibupetey : Doesn't it take 12 people to convict? Is it so hard to find even one person on a jury who would have enough common sense to vote for acquittal?

What, and have everything think they are a pervert and a pedo and therefore worse than Hitler? Nope.

Remember kiddies, the true force of oppression is not authority, but conformity. If everyone just follows the herd, then it takes very little force to control it.

But I think we're getting to the point, with examples such as the one from TFA, that the moral panic against child pornography is hitting the limit of people's common sense.
 
2009-01-16 06:35:23 AM  

oldsbone: What's next? Child rape when they flog their own bishop?


Isn't it usually the other way around? The real question is if he still wears the silly hat.
 
2009-01-16 06:42:39 AM  

Occam's Chainsaw: Cinletharwi: Makh: is it illegal for me to still have my high school year book?

Everything will eventually be illegal.

How To Build a Police State, Volume 1.

Step 1: Make everyone a criminal.


step 2: selective enforcement so that people dont complain as much at first.

The US basically has enough laws to make everyone a criminal with selective enforcement, the EU is getting close to doing that across the 27 nation block, and some of the member states already have laws that in effect make everyone a criminal.

Once everyone is a criminal and the only thing keeping them out of jail is to toe the line with the government, not speak up against its abuses, the only thing left is to remove anonymity so that people cant make such comments without retaliation. MI5 in the UK already got approval and is doing their initial installation of their "black boxes" that will monitor every internet link and telephone call, they are even going to require ID for prepaid sim cards to identify the 40% or so of the prepaid population. The EU is doing a one-way data sharing program with the US to share travel (even domestic), banking, phone, internet and a lot of other personal data on its citizens. The hold up is the US wants immunity for abuse of the information, the EU isnt sure that is a good idea but its not a deal breaker. Printers already have codes embedded into the output so that it can be tracked back to which printer actually printed the material, the EFF even showed that you can trace this back if you arent the government with access to the code lists.

/maybe tinfoil hats arent just for the crazy
//maybe the paranoid arent paranoid enough!
 
2009-01-16 06:47:09 AM  

etobian: Doesn't it take 12 people to convict? Is it so hard to find even one person on a jury who would have enough common sense to vote for acquittal?


Said person will be told sternly by the judge that their job is not judge the law, only whether it was broken. Defense attorneys will be seriously disciplined for even bringing up juries as a check in the system. Also, jury selection is skewed (by all parties involved) to avoid the those persons.
 
2009-01-16 06:57:45 AM  
pnjunction:
What if some random teen sends some (unsolicited) pics to somebody and then calls the cops on them? Good luck deleting them fast and trying to prove you didn't want the pictures at all. For a slighted girl, it would be even easier than a rape accusation in terms of ruining someone's life using the long dick of the law.

I expect that if it was a totally "random" sender, then it'd be tough to find a prosecutor who'd be willing to bother with the case. If the sender knew the receiver, but they didn't have a prior history of phone communication, and the first message ever had n00dz in it, well fark I dunno. The legal system is crazy sometimes.
 
mjl
2009-01-16 06:59:20 AM  
pnjunction:

What if some random teen sends some (unsolicited) pics to somebody and then calls the cops on them? Good luck deleting them fast and trying to prove you didn't want the pictures at all. For a slighted girl, it would be even easier than a rape accusation in terms of ruining someone's life using the long dick of the law.

S'OK, He'd go down for 20 but so would she (distributing child porn), you see? Checks and Balances.... the Legal system works!!

 
2009-01-16 07:08:20 AM  
Man, 34 comments and no one said the fark classic.
Worthless without pics.
 
2009-01-16 07:13:58 AM  
step 1: take underage nude pics of your self
step 2: send them to unsuspecting victims
step 3: profit!
 
2009-01-16 07:18:33 AM  
So technically an 16 year old ex-girlfriend could send her ex-boyfriend a picture of herself in the buff and turn said ex into the law.
 
2009-01-16 07:31:43 AM  

Merltech: So technically an 16 year old ex-girlfriend could send her ex-boyfriend a picture of herself in the buff and turn said ex into the law.


You have it backwards. It's the girl who has committed the most serious crime in your scenario. She is the one who was "distributing child porn". Just like in the article.
 
2009-01-16 07:33:27 AM  

Merltech: So technically an 16 year old ex-girlfriend could send her ex-boyfriend a picture of herself in the buff and turn said ex into the law.


Yup, and based on history, sentencing favors females, its harder for them to get maximum sentences for the same actions. As a result it would be far worse for the guy than the girl. And if she is one of those psycho chicks (she would kinda have to be to set someone up after a breakup) she wont care, at least initially, that she set him up, and if she ever admits it he will get off without punishment, and has the potential to sue her (her parents more likely) so she then has a vested interest in keeping quiet.

What is worse is that the FBI can just send pics to someone and set them up that way. If you look for the case where the FBI had an "informant" that hacked into someones system to look for kiddie pr0n because the FBI couldnt get a warrant to search, and after many discussions about this and all they eventually found some, they protected the identity of the CI throughout the trial. The judge (9th circuit district court) even ruled that it was perfectly fair to not allow the defendant to confront his accuser, so the identify of this CI was not known. The guy was convicted and sought appeal, I lost track of the case then. But it means that there is at least the potential for them to plant evidence that ends up being really bad.

Lets say that you really are innocent, then you do not deserve to goto jail, especially when that means solitary or constant beat downs and everything else for being a child molester. It also means that it would be unfair for you to have to register for life, and that could impair your ability to work in the future. All for something you didnt do. I am not saying that everyone accused, tried and convicted is innocent, by all means I think most are in fact guilty, but when there are court rulings that allow the FBI to have secret agents that never get named, you cant show that it was a set up, or that the FBI was doing it internally.

This all leads to a "we can imprison anyone for anything so dont do anything that will upset us" attitude, which leads to far worse things happening.
 
2009-01-16 07:35:38 AM  
Someone could kill a person and leave property belonging to an ex at the scene to make it look like they were the killers. This is why laws against murder are bullshiat.

Someone could quiety stash a box of illegal weaponry in your backyard and anonymously call the cops. This is why missile launchers shouldn't be against the law.

Someone could rape a woman and leave a hair belonging to an enemy at the scene, leading the police to arrest your innocent enemy. Rape should be legal.

I don't agree with this law, but the justifications for eliminating it are pretty weak.
 
2009-01-16 07:35:58 AM  
Occam's Chainsaw: Everything will eventually be illegal.

How To Build a Police State, Volume 1.

Step 1: Make everyone a criminal.

step 2: selective enforcement so that people dont complain as much at first.

The US basically has enough laws to make everyone a criminal with selective enforcement, the EU is getting close to doing that across the 27 nation block, and some of the member states already have laws that in effect make everyone a criminal.


yeah, but how many eu countries will put you on the sex offenders register if you get caught taking a slash on your way home from the pub?
 
2009-01-16 07:44:23 AM  
News flash: Teens have sex.
News flash: Teens have cell phones with cameras
News flash: Horny teens don't always show the best judgment

Tolksy: If the reason we prosecute adults for child porn is because the younger partner isn't mature enough to consent due to them being under the age we set up as a cutoff (17 or so), then why isn't that same 17 year old, who could have sent his/her older partner to the slammer for sex given the same lack of judgment defense when he/she takes pictures of his/her younger sexual partner (or themselves)?

Cliffnote: It's retarded to prosecute kids for being stupid. Send them to sex ed and call it a day.
 
2009-01-16 07:49:59 AM  

pnjunction: Occam's Chainsaw: Cinletharwi: Makh: is it illegal for me to still have my high school year book?

Everything will eventually be illegal.

How To Build a Police State, Volume 1.

Step 1: Make everyone a criminal.

Indeed. They've already got 20% of teenagers according to TFA.

What if some random teen sends some (unsolicited) pics to somebody and then calls the cops on them? Good luck deleting them fast and trying to prove you didn't want the pictures at all. For a slighted girl, it would be even easier than a rape accusation in terms of ruining someone's life using the long dick of the law.


Ah.... fark. Here we go.
 
2009-01-16 07:51:56 AM  
I dunno, I feel much safer every time they ruin a 14 year old girl's life.
 
2009-01-16 07:52:32 AM  

Tweeker: Said person will be told sternly by the judge that their job is not judge the law, only whether it was broken.


Funny how they don't like to mention that whole right to jury nullification.
 
2009-01-16 08:02:07 AM  
A little common sense...

The law isn't outright a bad one. The intent of the law is to outlaw distribution of child pornography. And no one with common sense (not referring to fark) wants to eliminate child porn laws. The worst you could say is that this distribution law contains a loophole regarding when the images of the naked child you are distributing happen to be of yourself.

But we would have to be very careful re-writing the law to allow kids to distribute pornographic images of themselves. That would quickly make a legal child porn industry a reality. An adult could run the web-site and collect money, as long as only the kid posted porn images. Which of course is quite obviously just a child porn site taking gross advantage of our hypothetical newly re-written law.

The exceptions the law, to allow for scenarios like this, would have to painstakingly carefully written, and excruciatingly clearly detailed. Otherwise they quite de facto make child porn legal.

So, all in all, I don't think it is feasible to re-write the law to be "perfect", just like any law. I think it is up to prosecutors to use some common sense when bringing charges, just like any law. We don't have many details of this case, but I will tentatively say it sounds like the prosecutors are being over-zealous here.

Okay, end calm rational post....now back to a thread full of AHHHH! Amerikka is a fascist hellhole where EVERYONE is a criminal OMGWTF!!!!!
 
2009-01-16 08:03:22 AM  
If I (and this is just a hypothetical here) pleasured myself as a teen, would that make me a sex offender? Also, I only have teh ghey when it involves myself.

This story makes me dizzy with its circular nature.
 
2009-01-16 08:07:29 AM  

pnjunction:

What if some random teen sends some (unsolicited) pics to somebody and then calls the cops on them? Good luck deleting them fast and trying to prove you didn't want the pictures at all. For a slighted girl, it would be even easier than a rape accusation in terms of ruining someone's life using the long dick of the law.


I know a 23 year old who is dating some whore of a 17 year old. She's given him pictures of herself in lingerie (and God knows what she's doing in the pictures I haven't seen) and I'm really nervous about the whole thing, especially if he ever tries to break up with her.
 
2009-01-16 08:07:46 AM  
I heard about this on CNN Headline News driving back from work on Wednesday. Desperately tried to call into the show to tell them what idiots they were being. They had some legal expert who actually said that the kids are being charged with child porn because there's no other crime they can be charged with.

What? Why charge them at all? Smack them upside the head for being so stupid, but don't farking CHARGE them with something that's going to follow them throughout their lives! The "legal expert's" and the newscasters' opinion: The kids need to be charged with something so we can protect them.

I was going out of my mind at the all-around stupidity.

/A friend's 15-yo daughter made a sex video last year & sent it to some guy she liked. He promptly hosted it on the school's server for everyone to see. Thankfully the school was more interested in keeping the scandal quiet than "protecting" the kids, otherwise who knows how many of them would be on the sex offender's list?
 
2009-01-16 08:12:32 AM  

Wigwam For a Goose's Bridle: Occam's Chainsaw: Everything will eventually be illegal.

How To Build a Police State, Volume 1.

Step 1: Make everyone a criminal.

step 2: selective enforcement so that people dont complain as much at first.

The US basically has enough laws to make everyone a criminal with selective enforcement, the EU is getting close to doing that across the 27 nation block, and some of the member states already have laws that in effect make everyone a criminal.

yeah, but how many eu countries will put you on the sex offenders register if you get caught taking a slash on your way home from the pub?


its not just this law, that is the point I was trying to make, by doing it with a broad spectrum of laws they can in effect make everyone criminals, despite what they actually do. Trying to narrow it to this one singular law misses the point completely.
 
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