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(National Post)   Why Canada's Highway of Heroes is a model of how other nations should salute their war dead. Or, other nations could just keep bringing them back on cargo flights to military bases at 3 a.m (pic)   (network.nationalpost.com) divider line 194
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22895 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jan 2009 at 10:43 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2009-01-02 08:05:16 PM
And let the people who don't support the war see them? But that would make it harder for the morons in charge to play army in the sand!
 
2009-01-02 08:16:22 PM
I was driving to Kingston along 401 east on Tuesday when they repatriatated the last two soldiers. I can't tell you how moving it was to see people on every single overpass between Trenton and Ajax in -25C weather waving flags or just gathering there.

I stopped the car on the eastbound shoulder just outside Brighton and stood beside the car as the hearses came by in the westbound lanes. I wasn't the only one. I was standing next to 120km/h traffic, and everything stopped when the limos appeared over the rise with their OPP escort. Twenty seconds later, it was back to normal, but nothing moved during that time.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2009-01-02 08:25:00 PM
And let the people who don't support the war see them? That would make it easier for the self-important, entitled asshats to stage protests to serve their own agendas and throw rubbish and animal blood at the hearses.

The Canadians aren't quite the same brand of scum we are, you see? They can do civilised things like this.
 
2009-01-02 08:25:51 PM
Oh, and just in case you Americans don't get it - all our war dead come to CFB Trenton, then are driven west 100 miles to Toronto for autopsies before being released to their families, and it is well-publicized in advance. Here are a few images of what happens. Careful, they're hot:

www.garth.ca

farm3.static.flickr.com

www.citynews.ca

img.dailymail.co.uk
 
2009-01-02 08:29:37 PM
Holy crap.



/Holy crap.
 
2009-01-02 08:40:13 PM
That's awesome. But yeah, do that here and Fred Phelps would start making regular appearances.
 
2009-01-02 08:43:30 PM
Isotope: But yeah, do that here and Fred Phelps would start making regular appearances.

Up here, he'd only do it once. We'd throw his ass off the bridge into traffic.

/ ya rly
 
2009-01-02 08:45:38 PM
40below: We'd throw his ass off the bridge into traffic.

Maybe we need more Lumberjack Justice down here. =P
 
2009-01-02 08:51:28 PM
davin: And let the people who don't support the war see them? But that would make it harder for the morons in charge to play army in the sand!

I'd be more inclined to think that they (the US) don't publicize theirs as much because they're worried that, rather than turning into a respectful salute to people that gave all (you can question the motives of people above them, but their own motives are usually fairly selfless), it would turn into some media circus/protest, reuniting the scummiest people from all sides, from the Christian fundie with signs saying that God killed them to punish us for not stoning gays, to the trustafarian brandishing completely unrelated flags/signs saying that if only we all went vegan, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.
 
2009-01-02 08:52:20 PM
Isotope: That's awesome. But yeah, do that here and Fred Phelps would start making regular appearances.

hah! Kinda beat me to it!
 
2009-01-02 08:56:05 PM
Dan, Dan, Butterfield.
 
2009-01-02 09:04:29 PM
Temescal: I'd be more inclined to think that they (the US) don't publicize theirs as much because they're worried that, rather than turning into a respectful salute to people that gave all (you can question the motives of people above them, but their own motives are usually fairly selfless), it would turn into some media circus/protest, reuniting the scummiest people from all sides, from the Christian fundie with signs saying that God killed them to punish us for not stoning gays, to the trustafarian brandishing completely unrelated flags/signs saying that if only we all went vegan, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

Yeah, it's funny. This a spontaneous thing that's been happening for six years now, not organized by the government or the veterans' organizations or anyone else. People just show up in the thousands every time a Canadian soldier is repatriated, and to my knowledge, there has never been one single protest. It's a citizen's army, and this is how we say thanks to people who died with the Canadian flag on their right shoulder that we never met. You should see the thousands of people who line the route from CFB Trenton to the 401 regardless of the weather.

Ordinary people just show up, pay their respects and leave. And as I said above, anyone who tried to politicize this - either for or against the war - would be in for a short, sharp and unpleasant awakening. We Canadians might look laid back and say "Sorry' a lot, but there are lines you don't cross. The lines on the bridge are one of them.
 
2009-01-02 09:07:55 PM
Sorry, left shoulder.
 
2009-01-02 09:21:17 PM
why do I seem to have something in my eye?
 
2009-01-02 09:27:40 PM
I think the feelings in Canada might be different if the war was their war. The U.S. started this war, we dragged a bunch of other people into it, and there were a lot of people against it right from the start. The U.S. also has this mentality of "we have to be the biggest, the best, the most righteous" and our soldiers are supposed to be the representatives of it. And again, some Americans have a problem with this.

It's a simpler thing in Canada. Solders are brave people who got killed. U.S. soldiers are supposed to be all things to all citizens. And we ARE going to expect them to represent, even if we don't know what it is they stand for.

I am probably not putting this exactly right, so don't flame me. But a soldier in the U.S. is not the same as a soldier in Canada.
 
2009-01-02 09:36:10 PM
cryinoutloud: Solders are brave people who got killed. U.S. soldiers are supposed to be all things to all citizens. And we ARE going to expect them to represent, even if we don't know what it is they stand for.

You pretty much got it. But up here, we expect them to represent our values, even when they're in a place where they're killing people.

Our army is seen as a part of our society, not apart from it and not above it - they take orders from civilians and answer to them directly. It's the difference between a republic and constitutional monarchy.

I'm not explaining it very well either, but we don't have a posse comitatus law, and that makes a huge difference. Our armed forces operate freely in Canada, and my city hall, like many others, has dents in the door made by the pommels of officers' swords during long-ago ceremonies granting their regiments the freedom of the city - i.e., to carry weapons with bayonets fixed and march freely under their colours. It's one of the highest civic honours in the Commonwealth. We like it that way, if only because they're under civilian authority.
 
2009-01-02 09:37:51 PM
Temescal

I'd be more inclined to think that they (the US) don't publicize theirs as much because they're worried that, rather than turning into a respectful salute to people that gave all (you can question the motives of people above them, but their own motives are usually fairly selfless), it would turn into some media circus/protest, reuniting the scummiest people from all sides, from the Christian fundie with signs saying that God killed them to punish us for not stoning gays, to the trustafarian brandishing completely unrelated flags/signs saying that if only we all went vegan, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

You are correct, and hit upon the main reason the Bush administration simply didn't get it. Protests and dissent and free speech like this are why America exists in the first place. Bush and company, in their infinitesimal wisdom, declared such things off limits, along with political protest of any sort, except in "safe zones," i.e., safely away from Bush.

If this were 1776 or thereabouts, Bush and all his cronies whould have been die hard Tories, all foursquare for King and Country.
 
2009-01-02 09:58:56 PM
Was in LA when they brought back KIA. Very moving....airport, police, and military did a very nice job.
 
2009-01-02 10:46:53 PM
Canada has heroes?

Who knew. . .
 
2009-01-02 10:48:45 PM
oldebayer: Bush and company, in their infinitesimal wisdom, declared such things off limits, along with political protest of any sort, except in "safe zones," i.e., safely away from Bush.

hate to say it, but free speech zones came about long before Bush. They came about during the turmoil of the Vietnam War.
 
2009-01-02 10:49:21 PM
Excellent job Canada. Very honorable and respectful.

Or, other nations could just keep bringing them back on cargo flights to military bases at 3 a.m

I can haz flamewar?!?!

/readies popcorn just in case
 
2009-01-02 10:49:34 PM
40below: Oh, and just in case you Americans don't get it

Stopped reading after Canadian smugness manifested itself.
 
2009-01-02 10:49:51 PM
My cousin was a medivac trooper and was killed a few months ago in a crash. The people that came to watch his funeral procession driving down the highway was amazing. I couldnt go, but the pictures alone made me cry.
 
2009-01-02 10:50:45 PM
Bush is a pig and will be gone soon. I hope Obama institutes this kind of respect for the fallen vs. Bushes sneaky Army of Darkness bullcrap.
 
2009-01-02 10:51:23 PM
oldebayer: You are correct, and hit upon the main reason the Bush administration simply didn't get it. Protests and dissent and free speech like this are why America exists in the first place.

Yes, I agree. Protesters standing on the side of the road throwing "animal blood" and yelling "baby killers" and "God killed him because of gays" is definitely the right thing to do to a fallen soldier. Because you get to have your free speech no matter the pain and agony you cause others. They don't matter anyway, do they...

/"Free Speech" DOES have boundaries...
 
2009-01-02 10:51:40 PM
K3rmy: Canada has heroes?

Who knew. . .


Go read up on General Arthur Currie. If he'd been in charge of the allied troops in WWI instead of Haig, that war probably would have been over a lot sooner with a lot less loss of life on both sides.
 
2009-01-02 10:52:34 PM
That's cheating. You Canucks have like one road in the whole country that isn't made of ice.
 
2009-01-02 10:52:39 PM
I always thought we tried to go a bridge too far...

/article could provide enough smug to run a fleet of hybrids
 
2009-01-02 10:52:51 PM
K3rmy: Canada has heroes?

Who knew. . .


We tend to keep those things hush-hush lest we get noticed.

We then complain that we don't get noticed.
 
2009-01-02 10:53:11 PM
Go to the Dallas/Ft. Worth airport. When I came home on R&R on my third tour last April, I was brought to tears by the kindness of the people of Texas. From the fire turck water cannon salute when taxiing in to the Hugging Grandmas, I have never been so moved in sixteen years of service. God Bless Texas!
 
2009-01-02 10:53:12 PM
While I raise a glass to Canadian's fallen heroes, the comment about how America doesn't 'get it' bothers me. Here in small town America where I live, our war dead get the same welcome home.
 
2009-01-02 10:55:07 PM
Other countries don't have 5 o'lock news teams that would just show footage while screaming "Look at all the DEAD people!!! Doesn't the President Suuuuuuck!!?!"

If they were treated with respect by everybody I doubt they would be coming home in the middle of the night. Argue about the war - but don't do it over the dead body of a soldier.
 
2009-01-02 10:55:43 PM
40below: I was driving to Kingston along 401 east on Tuesday when they repatriatated the last two soldiers. I can't tell you how moving it was to see people on every single overpass between Trenton and Ajax in -13 °F weather waving flags or just gathering there.

I stopped the car on the eastbound shoulder just outside Brighton and stood beside the car as the hearses came by in the westbound lanes. I wasn't the only one. I was standing next to 74.6 MPH traffic, and everything stopped when the limos appeared over the rise with their OPP escort. Twenty seconds later, it was back to normal, but nothing moved during that time.


ftf the 'mericans
 
2009-01-02 10:56:25 PM
rgriffithi: While I raise a glass to Canadian's fallen heroes, the comment about how America doesn't 'get it' bothers me. Here in small town America where I live, our war dead get the same welcome home.

Not meant to slight you or your fallen. Just saying where I live, this is the welcome they get from their country. The town where they live does a lot more.
 
2009-01-02 10:56:49 PM
Isotope: That's awesome. But yeah, do that here and Fred Phelps would start making regular appearances.

Rev. Fred would just slip on the ice, falling to the highway below.

/Too bad about that snow plow, eh Freddie?
 
2009-01-02 10:57:18 PM
Also, if what i've read is correct, the Canandian dead are flown into one city then driven en masse to another city for autopsies. To the best of my knowledge, our war dead are flown into Dover AFB, and the autopsy is performed there, then I imagine the bodies are returned to the families individually... so... no large processional down a central artery road way... Now, I agree the military and government tried to "hide" the return of our fallen soldiers at Dover, but still... there are simple logistical differences it seems...
 
2009-01-02 10:59:08 PM
biohazard76: Also, if what i've read is correct, the Canandian dead are flown into one city then driven en masse to another city for autopsies. To the best of my knowledge, our war dead are flown into Dover AFB, and the autopsy is performed there, then I imagine the bodies are returned to the families individually... so... no large processional down a central artery road way... Now, I agree the military and government tried to "hide" the return of our fallen soldiers at Dover, but still... there are simple logistical differences it seems...

This is correct. The main pathology center for Soldiers is the Center for Morturary Affairs at Dover AFB. They also do all the identification and embalming there as well.
 
2009-01-02 11:00:59 PM
For once, Canada, I like your style.

/Okay, probably more than once.
 
2009-01-02 11:01:56 PM
That is amazingly touching. We need more of this in the US if people wouldn't act like stupid political douchebags

/What is this clear, wet stuff around my eyes?
 
2009-01-02 11:06:33 PM
DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Other countries don't have 5 o'lock news teams that would just show footage while screaming "Look at all the DEAD people!!! Doesn't the President Suuuuuuck!!?!"

Yeah, because I see that all the time on American TV.
 
2009-01-02 11:08:54 PM
rgriffithi: While I raise a glass to Canadian's fallen heroes, the comment about how America doesn't 'get it' bothers me. Here in small town America where I live, our war dead get the same welcome home.

My brother-in-law was killed in Iraq. It was incredible to see how much support he got from the community. Hero's Welcome is an understatement. The Patriot Guard Riders were especially awesome. What an incredible bunch of people. Also, for those who think that Bush's administration doesn't care about the soldiers, my father-in-law got a personal phone call from Dick Chaney a few days following the death. Chaney kept apologizing that Bush didn't call himself but he was out of the country. Apparently, Bush or Chaney personally call the families of every fallen soldier. Personally, I can't stand their politics, but it burns me to hear people say that they don't care.

I too will tip my glass tonight to Canada's fallen heroes.
 
2009-01-02 11:11:19 PM
The US stopped bringing its war dead home unescorted a couple years ago, subretard (and all your parrots.) Try reading "The Things That Carried Him" from the May '08 issue of Esquire.
 
2009-01-02 11:13:58 PM
40below: Not meant to slight you or your fallen.

Dang 40! You'd better be careful of these youngsters - reading comprehension and an understanding of the rest of the world isn't widespread here in the US. Probably because a majority of Americans have never been to a foreign country, much less many like some of us...

i266.photobucket.com

i266.photobucket.com

/ Good job Canada! I saw nothing wrong with anything you said...
 
2009-01-02 11:14:32 PM
I'm having Cragganmore on ice right now, and I was feeling guilty because I didn't have any good reason to be drinking. But now I do. This is to you, heroes.

www.1-877-spirits.com
 
2009-01-02 11:15:14 PM
cryinoutloud
I think the feelings in Canada might be different if the war was their war.

I think you are mixing up Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan is our war. You (the U.S.) our ally and friend was attacked. It is my country's duty to fulfill its NATO obligations (as well as come to the defense of our friend and ally...treaties aside). Canadian soldiers are in Afghanistan because it is the right place to be. We just didn't let ourselves get dragged into Iraq.
 
2009-01-02 11:17:34 PM
i40.tinypic.com
 
2009-01-02 11:17:39 PM
Yes, because in America it's all about how the ARMY will make your kid ARMY STRONG, and how they will pay for college, and train him / her for a civilian job so when they get out, they can earn a decent living. They don't want you to see the caskets being unloaded, or the faces of the loved ones that have had their hearts broken. Or the soldiers that come home with less limbs than they left with. Or mental problems. They just bury that shiat.
 
2009-01-02 11:19:41 PM
They're brought back at 3am to minimize the opportunity for worthless pieces of shiat to exploit their death for their own ends.
 
2009-01-02 11:22:00 PM
I_Am_Weasel 2009-01-02 10:52:51 PM

K3rmy: Canada has heroes?

Who knew. . .

We tend to keep those things hush-hush lest we get noticed.

We then complain that we don't get noticed.


that made me laugh
 
2009-01-02 11:22:03 PM
trapped-in-CH: I'm having Cragganmore on ice right now, and I was feeling guilty because I didn't have any good reason to be drinking. But now I do. This is to you, heroes.


You put Cragganmore over ice?

For shame. Such a fine Whisky must be enjoyed neat son!

/will toast to our gentlemanly Canuck neighbors as well
 
2009-01-02 11:24:05 PM
I am an Ugly American, I remember being in Canada about 11 years ago, well befor 9/11 or anything that has come since.....I remember what so impressed me at the time was all the Canadian flags all over everything...they were all unabashedly proud to be Canadian........it was a child's faith, I was humbled, envious and embarised.........I wished that I could feel that way about my home.
 
2009-01-02 11:24:13 PM
What war dead? The surge was a huge success! We've just turned the Green Zone over to the Iraqis. If that doesn't radiate success, then I don't know what does.
 
2009-01-02 11:27:49 PM
kleppe: Stopped reading after Canadian smugness manifested itself.

If you kept on reading, you'd realize that he was explaining the logistics of the drive to those that may not realize its necessity, not the superior morality of it.
 
2009-01-02 11:28:17 PM
I have been in awe of the dignity and ceremony that we give our dead soldiers when coming home. I have been on the HOH during many of those solemn occasions.

These soldiers are dying because we are committed to a common cause.

As much as I dislike GWB and the way things have panned out during his tenure, I, for one, support the very difficult task that our military has accepted and continue to die for, because, in the common cause of the United States and Canada, we need to stand together, not always, but sometimes.

This is one of those times.

/CDN
/flame level set to low
 
2009-01-02 11:28:18 PM
Just to blow some American minds a little more:

The highway used to be called the McDonald-Cartier Freeway. It was renamed the "Highway of Heroes" by a Liberal Premier of Ontario.

We have the same left/right divisions as you guys ... but for the most part we refuse to let political affiliation define us, trump our humanity or override our common sense.
 
2009-01-02 11:28:24 PM
A lot of the people just show up ad hoc as well, it seems very loosely organized. I was driving home from school on the 401 last year and saw the flags over the bridges so once I got off the highway at my exit I parked at the closest parking lot walked over and waited 40 minutes until the motorcade came. After talking to a few people it seemed the only people who really knew about it beforehand where the firemen and a handful of people with flags, the firemen show up early with their firetruck, and people driving by begin to stop and wait with them. It was really cool. I had a really good chat with an older man and his wife and they went on about how the people in Afghanistan are just like us and most just want a chance to live in a free society like we have. Smug aside, I felt proud to be Canadian that day.
 
2009-01-02 11:32:37 PM
Ekillr: And let the people who don't support the war see them? That would make it easier for the self-important, entitled asshats to stage protests to serve their own agendas and throw rubbish and animal blood at the hearses.

The Canadians aren't quite the same brand of scum we are, you see? They can do civilised things like this.


They did this in Texas. I remember back when the war started there was a news story about all the people on overpasses as fallen soldiers were brought home.
 
2009-01-02 11:32:56 PM
My four year old asked me about one of the motorcades a while back.

I explained to him about the war far away, and the families, and i made him take off his hat as we stopped by the side of the road.

And he got very quiet and sad and asked if i was ever going to war, too.

Doesn't matter how old you are, or who you are, or what your views are ... those motorcades are a powerful, powerful thing.
 
2009-01-02 11:32:58 PM
As a proud Canadian, I have a right to this soapbox.

The Highway of Heroes is nothing but propaganda. These fallen soldiers are not heroes, they are doing their job. Just dying in the line of duty is an honour, but it does not make you a hero.

This in actuality belittles the actual heroes, the VC recipients, the Cross of Valour recipients, those are true heroes. The people lining the streets have bought it hook, line, and sinker.
 
2009-01-02 11:33:55 PM
cache.boston.com

Hotlinked from Boston.com's the big picture (pops)

"Honor guard carry the casket of Sergeant Prescott Shipway to a hearse past his daughter Rowan Shipway, 4, and his wife Diana Dawn Kaczmar (and his son Hayden, 6 holding a rose at far right) , at Canadian Forces Base Trenton September 10, 2008. Shipway, an infantryman with the Second Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, was killed on September 7 when his armoured vehicle struck a roadside bomb in the Panjwayi District of Afghanistan. (REUTERS/Fred Thornhill)"
 
2009-01-02 11:35:34 PM
towatchoverme: And he got very quiet and sad and asked if i was ever going to war, too.

Yup. I'm going to Afghanistan next week, and my kids have already asked me if I'm going to die. Not likely, but I didn't actually get a vaccine against IEDs.
 
2009-01-02 11:37:45 PM
Yet another reason why Canada is awesome.
 
2009-01-02 11:41:51 PM
40below: towatchoverme: And he got very quiet and sad and asked if i was ever going to war, too.

Yup. I'm going to Afghanistan next week, and my kids have already asked me if I'm going to die. Not likely, but I didn't actually get a vaccine against IEDs.


Good luck mate.
 
2009-01-02 11:42:15 PM
40below: Yup. I'm going to Afghanistan next week, and my kids have already asked me if I'm going to die. Not likely, but I didn't actually get a vaccine against IEDs.

Good luck! And, as an American, I thank you for your service!
 
2009-01-02 11:46:00 PM
ansius: Good luck mate.

Yeah, if there's nothing in the queue two weeks from now but TFDs and cat threads, you'll know the terrorists have won.
 
2009-01-02 11:46:57 PM
anurak: As a proud Canadian, I have a right to this soapbox.

The Highway of Heroes is nothing but propaganda. These fallen soldiers are not heroes, they are doing their job. Just dying in the line of duty is an honour, but it does not make you a hero.

This in actuality belittles the actual heroes, the VC recipients, the Cross of Valour recipients, those are true heroes. The people lining the streets have bought it hook, line, and sinker.


As a recent immigrant to Canada from the U.S, I have a right to this soapbox: You sir, are a giant bag of douche.
 
2009-01-02 11:48:15 PM
maniacbastard - Bush is a pig and will be gone soon. I hope Obama institutes this kind of respect for the fallen vs. Bushes sneaky Army of Darkness bullcrap.

You're kidding, right?
 
2009-01-02 11:48:22 PM
40below: towatchoverme: And he got very quiet and sad and asked if i was ever going to war, too.

Yup. I'm going to Afghanistan next week, and my kids have already asked me if I'm going to die. Not likely, but I didn't actually get a vaccine against IEDs.


I'd like to say we're working on it but we're a little busy with the Navy. Stay safe and good luck.
 
2009-01-02 11:48:31 PM
anurak: As a proud Canadian, I have a right to this soapbox.

The Highway of Heroes is nothing but propaganda. These fallen soldiers are not heroes, they are doing their job. Just dying in the line of duty is an honour, but it does not make you a hero.

This in actuality belittles the actual heroes, the VC recipients, the Cross of Valour recipients, those are true heroes. The people lining the streets have bought it hook, line, and sinker.


Guess Canadians have their fair share of douchebags as well.

Whether the soldiers were killed by a mortar attack while having a smoke inside the wire or while making a one-man charge on an enemy stronghold, dying in the line of duty is an honor worthy of respect by others.

The additional awards are what separates those who did amazing deeds from those who merely died in the line of duty. We should do this in the US as well, but like many others have said, there are way too many self-important asshats who would desecrate the event. We do hold pretty elaborate memorial services on base, well away from said self-important asshats.
 
2009-01-02 11:50:40 PM
K3rmy: Canada has heroes?

Who knew. . .


Not just Heroes. Heroes with brass balls the size of the Death Star. With lasers on 'em and stuff. See General Romeo Dallaire. Balls.
 
2009-01-02 11:51:02 PM
 
2009-01-02 11:53:30 PM
spi13: I am an Ugly American, I remember being in Canada about 11 years ago, well befor 9/11 or anything that has come since.....I remember what so impressed me at the time was all the Canadian flags all over everything...they were all unabashedly proud to be Canadian........it was a child's faith, I was humbled, envious and embarised.........I wished that I could feel that way about my home.

There was a HUGE change in Canadian public patriotism (at least to this American tourist's eyes) between 1991 and 1998. It may have had something to do with the two secession referenda in Quebec. Or it may have had to do with a beer commercial: "I AM CANADIAN!"

In 1990 and 1991, it was relatively hard to find books about Canada in Canadian bookstores (including The World's Biggest Bookstore in Toronto near Eaton Centre). "Bullwhip Days", a book about American slavery, topped the charts in late May, 1990. The book had merit, but Canada was going through the throes of Meech Lake's protracted and painful demise while the GST loomed in the next year. In 1991, Quebec was planning another referendum, the GST struck and still the Americana section of a Guelph bookstore was spacious and capacious while Canadiana got four whole shelves.

(Despite this low profile, Canadian-ness was so overwhelming in Toronto that after five days I wondered what the hell all those obnoxious Americans were doing at Eaton Centre in Toronto -- probably buying Cuban cigars.)

By August 1998, two failed referenda had intervened, Joe Canada had his "I AM CANADIAN!" screamfest from sea to sea to sea and the Canadian history and culture sections ballooned. But maybe it meant nothing in reality, since somehow Tim Horton's, Laura Secord Ice Cream and Eaton's got swallowed into American megacorps.
 
2009-01-02 11:53:38 PM
johnny_vegas was the kia you saw in L.A. headed for Bakersfield. It hasn't been long since we had one come up from there with all kinds of escorts including civilian motorcycle groups. He was found in Viet Nahm and returned. They even escorted him to the mortuary and stood guard over him. And was escorted to the burial site. It was really a moving site.

For awhile there was a so called Christian group. that every time a soldier from Iraq or Afganistran was buried here in the states, that showed up a the funeral and harrassed the family and friends. They would stand screaming obcenatities and calling the soldier a murderer and the family parents of murderers it was just so sickening. It got so bad that Law Enforcement was having to show up to protect the family until a bunch of Biker groups got together and started attending the funerals and protecting the families.
 
2009-01-02 11:53:50 PM
40below: Oh, and just in case you Americans don't get it - all our war dead come to CFB Trenton, then are driven west 100 miles to Toronto for autopsies before being released to their families, and it is well-publicized in advance. Here are a few images of what happens. Careful, they're hot:

I believe this is called "classy."
 
2009-01-02 11:54:23 PM
anurak wrote: The Highway of Heroes is nothing but propaganda. These fallen soldiers are not heroes, they are doing their job. Just dying in the line of duty is an honour, but it does not make you a hero.

Credy wrote: Guess Canadians have their fair share of douchebags as well.

Whether the soldiers were killed by a mortar attack while having a smoke inside the wire or while making a one-man charge on an enemy stronghold, dying in the line of duty is an honor worthy of respect by others.

The additional awards are what separates those who did amazing deeds from those who merely died in the line of duty. We should do this in the US as well, but like many others have said, there are way too many self-important asshats who would desecrate the event. We do hold pretty elaborate memorial services on base, well away from said self-important asshats.


This.

Well stated.
 
2009-01-02 11:57:09 PM
I'm at work all misty-eyed now. But I've been like that lately as my little brother will be deploying in February/March.

I wish we could do something like this in the US but as it's already been stated- people would come out for the wrong reasons and use it as a soapbox to state whatever their beliefs were and the media would whore it up. If only people could put aside whatever their personal feelings were and shut up and be respectful for those who fought and lost their lives.

Do I agree with the war? No, not necessarily. But I damn sure support the troops and the people with the testicular fortitude to go into the military.

For my dad, and my brother, Semper Fi.

/someone gimme a tissue.
 
2009-01-02 11:58:52 PM
40below: Yup. I'm going to Afghanistan next week, and my kids have already asked me if I'm going to die. Not likely, but I didn't actually get a vaccine against IEDs.

come home safe man. I have a stepbrother who's going to afghanistan in february.
 
2009-01-03 12:00:45 AM
Interesting political side note -

Before the conservatives came to power under Harper, all government buildings would lower their flags to half mast when a soldier died overseas. Harper Banned this practice when he took power, including not lowering the flag on the parliament buildings.

Doing this on Hwy 401 was a completely voluntary response by citizens. The people that do actually care.
 
2009-01-03 12:01:03 AM
40below...God Bless You. I'll keep you and your family in my prayers.

Thank you never seems good enough to say.
 
2009-01-03 12:01:13 AM

Cragganmore on ice righttrapped-in-CH: I'm having Cragganmore on ice right now, and I was feeling guilty because I didn't have any good reason to be drinking. But now I do. This is to you, heroes.

ICE?!


i126.photobucket.com

THE SCOTTISH COMMUNITY FROWNS UPON YOUR SHENNANIGANS

 
2009-01-03 12:08:15 AM
The reason that the U.S. doesn't do something like this is due to the difference between the U.S. and Canada.

Canada is like TF, and the U.S. is Fark lite.

Take this thread, for example. There was rather rational discussion among all the TFers.

The first liter to comment in this thread made it a point to insult Canada's military.

The U.S., as a whole, isn't capable of behaving in a manner dignified enough to honor the service members who died.
 
2009-01-03 12:10:22 AM
Temescal: I'd be more inclined to think that they (the US) don't publicize theirs as much because they're worried that, rather than turning into a respectful salute to people that gave all (you can question the motives of people above them, but their own motives are usually fairly selfless), it would turn into some media circus/protest, reuniting the scummiest people from all sides, from the Christian fundie with signs saying that God killed them to punish us for not stoning gays, to the trustafarian brandishing completely unrelated flags/signs saying that if only we all went vegan, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

I think it goes right down to the root of the Bush administration's state of mind when whey started the war, at least in Iraq. They were hiding things because their intentions were far from pure. They were lying and manipulating the situation.

Afghanistan was a semi-legitimate war. I personally think that Bush had decided to go to war and deliberately went about engineering it, but the Afghanis were harbouring Al-Qaeda, so he at least had a passable justification.

But as for Iraq, that was all about deception, and never about what was right or moral. That was obvious to a great number of people It explains why people were so strongly opposed to the war. The deception also explains why the dead soldiers were smuggled in the country in such an undignified matter. The Bush administration cared far more about public perception, about their deception. They did not care at all about those men and women who had made the supreme sacrifice.

The Canadians? They are in Afganistan for honourable reasons. They have no reason to complain.
 
2009-01-03 12:10:32 AM
Isotope: That's awesome. But yeah, do that here and Fred Phelps would start making regular appearances.

Can we send him to Afghanistan?


/Phelps makes a good argument against free speech
 
2009-01-03 12:10:34 AM
Submitard can eat a bag of dicks and wash it down with a Canadian beer.

If you'd ever been to a funeral for an American serviceman I'm pretty sure you would have seen how this country salutes our fallen.

Now, kindly close your cockholster.
 
2009-01-03 12:13:01 AM
Evocatus: If you'd ever been to a funeral for an American serviceman I'm pretty sure you would have seen how this country salutes our fallen.

Now, kindly close your cockholster.


He's talking about how the U.S. government doesn't have publicized processions or the caskets when the caskets are returned.

Yes, military funerals are good. But, our government does keep a lid on the bodies when they're brought back to the states up until the funeral.

They do so because the majority of Americans don't behave well enough to properly honor the fallen soldiers if they're driven in a procession on the highway.
 
2009-01-03 12:13:59 AM
We Americans are scum because we know what we do is wrong and yet we have no balls to stand up against it. Face the truth. You love Bush and you are scum.
 
2009-01-03 12:17:59 AM
Evocatus: Submitard can eat a bag of dicks and wash it down with a Canadian beer.

If you'd ever been to a funeral for an American serviceman I'm pretty sure you would have seen how this country salutes our fallen.

Now, kindly close your cockholster.


Yeah, I'll keep that in mind.

Maybe you wanna keep your ignorant asshatedness in mind too, Mr Red White and Blue.
 
2009-01-03 12:18:12 AM
Yamaneko2: There was a HUGE change in Canadian public patriotism (at least to this American tourist's eyes) between 1991 and 1998.

I'm 24 and when I was growing up all my teachers always told us that Canadians are not patriotic, and that lack of patriotism is Canada's defining feature, because I'm guessing that's how it had always been for their generation and previous generation, a sort of quiet humbleness. They were always confused when I told them that my generation advertises its patriotism loudly. Maple Leaf tattoo's are commonplace (the red more so than the blue) and I can recall may a drunken night of belching out "Oh Canada" to the ire of sleeping neighbours both in Canada and in other countries. Maybe it was those beer commercials or as you said a more political reaction because of the referendums (refenedi?) but either way I've never known it any other way.
 
2009-01-03 12:18:52 AM
chakalakasp: Cragganmore on ice righttrapped-in-CH: I'm having Cragganmore on ice right now, and I was feeling guilty because I didn't have any good reason to be drinking. But now I do. This is to you, heroes.

ICE?!

THE SCOTTISH COMMUNITY FROWNS UPON YOUR SHENNANIGANS



wasn't the guy in the middle supposed to be Irish?
 
2009-01-03 12:19:45 AM
SchlingFocker: The reason that the U.S. doesn't do something like this is due to the difference between the U.S. and Canada.

Canada is like TF, and the U.S. is Fark lite.

Take this thread, for example. There was rather rational discussion among all the TFers.

The first liter to comment in this thread made it a point to insult Canada's military.

The U.S., as a whole, isn't capable of behaving in a manner dignified enough to honor the service members who died.


I'm a liter.
Yet I am Canadian.

/I'm confused.
 
2009-01-03 12:20:11 AM
Yes, the Canadian tradition is very touching.

Not to sound cold-hearted, but it's easier to have tributes like that when your annual death toll is measured in dozens of soldiers, not hundreds or thousands.
 
2009-01-03 12:21:25 AM
It's all Bush's fault.

When the fallen troops came home from Kosovo, they were given a hero's welcome on the front lawn of the White House, and the entire country watched as President Clinton welcomed them home and enumerated their great sacrifice before us all. Same thing happened when they came home from Somalia, and other unmentioned places, during his administration.

It was a much better country then. Most of us had lollypop gardens and two flying cars in the heli-garage.
 
2009-01-03 12:21:57 AM
TheOtherMisterP: Not to sound cold-hearted, but it's easier to have tributes like that when your annual death toll is measured in dozens of soldiers, not hundreds or thousands.

It's not a matter of logistics.

It's a matter of an American public not mature enough to treat the event with the respect it deserves coupled with an American government not mature enough to publicly display the sheer number of troops we've lost.
 
2009-01-03 12:23:01 AM
I hate the war, the government, and the need for a military complex. The individual soldiers do get my respect and if we gotta have a military I think Canada's does 110% with about 20% of what they actually need to do the job.

/cue the picture our tank and navy boat.
 
2009-01-03 12:25:08 AM
zappawizard: Isotope: That's awesome. But yeah, do that here and Fred Phelps would start making regular appearances.

Can we send him to Afghanistan?


/Phelps makes a good argument against free speech


Rumor is, he makes a good living off the first amendment (i.e., show up in public, say some crazy shiat, and sue the fark out of the people that try to stop you).
 
2009-01-03 12:27:17 AM
Hongcouver: I think Canada's does 110% with about 20% of what they actually need to do the job

They have good raw material to work with:
i62.photobucket.com
 
2009-01-03 12:27:32 AM
anurak: As a proud Canadian, I have a right to this soapbox.

I agree with you , most people in the Armed Forces that I have known would be embarrassed by this show , on the other hand a few would request that you prop their dead body up so their ass was hanging out the window and do laps around the DND HQ in Ottawa or a number of other places .

but any funeral is for the living not the dead ..

I joined twenty odd years ago ( never completed basic .. Mulroney budget cuts ) I found a lot of people joined for various reasons but being worshiped was never one of them .

Whether I agree with the mission or not I feel the Forces member still should be shown due respect . If a person has the guts to run in to burning building to save a baby, hurray for them . If they were lied to and there is no baby , that is sad but still, hurray for them.
 
2009-01-03 12:29:46 AM
SchlingFocker: He's talking about how the U.S. government doesn't have publicized processions or the caskets when the caskets are returned.

Ooooohhhhh. You mean like how they did in all the other wars we've had?

Yes, military funerals are good. But, our government does keep a lid on the bodies when they're brought back to the states up until the funeral.

That's because funerals are private affairs. Even if a military funeral is chosen, the family still has quite a say in how it's conducted.

They do so because the majority of Americans don't behave well enough to properly honor the fallen soldiers if they're driven in a procession on the highway.

Google's your friend. Try it sometime.
 
2009-01-03 12:30:22 AM
anurak: As a proud Canadian, I have a right to this soapbox.

The Highway of Heroes is nothing but propaganda. These fallen soldiers are not heroes, they are doing their job. Just dying in the line of duty is an honour, but it does not make you a hero.

This in actuality belittles the actual heroes, the VC recipients, the Cross of Valour recipients, those are true heroes. The people lining the streets have bought it hook, line, and sinker.


And also as a proud Canadian, I have a right to say this.

Even the VC recipients will tell you that the difference between them and a coffin is often how close the grenade landed.

The gentlemen who are brave enough to put their lives on the line in ANY war zone are more than deserving of all we can do when they make the ultimate sacrifice, however it was brought on. The people lining the bridges are doing what they can to show respect and support for the deceased and their families, and were doing it long before the highway was renamed.

And where I come from, anyone willing to risk his life to protect others is a hero.
 
2009-01-03 12:31:09 AM
The article was mainly an attack on the British. That's reasonable, being from Scotland has made me desperately aware of the fact that for every UK soldier that dies, 100,000 asswipes have previously treated them like shiat.

/RIP Marine Lucas Alexander, WO2 Gary O'Donnell, Cpl Barry Dempsey, Sgt Jonathan Mathews, Lance Cpl James Johnson, Capt John McDermid, Cpl Mark Wright, Pvt Craig O'Donnell, Lance Cpl Ross Nicholls,
 
2009-01-03 12:31:14 AM
This thread shows why many Americans are hated throughout the world... nothing is good enough, especially when someone else does it better.

The least that all soldiers should get when they fall in the act of duty (and here we have Canadians working/dying while cleaning the mess the Americans did) is some dignity and respect.

And that's why the only Americans (that the world sees or hear about) that are deserving of this, are those portrayed in movies.(most being fictional) The real heroes are far in between, and most Americans I've seen in here are whining little smart-arses that talk big, think that they know it all, but aren't much more than basement dwellers.


So I say;

God bless American, or should I say Hollywood's portrayal of it.... if not for that, where would you stand?

/with some exceptions, of course

//Godspeed to all fallen soldiers (Canadian or not) that died to try and make the world a better place for others.
 
2009-01-03 12:35:41 AM
Isotope: They have good raw material to work with:

Hey! There's our tank in the background! Nothing wrong with the human talent but those guys are dressed like they made their own uniforms from several fly fishing vests duct taped together.
 
2009-01-03 12:35:50 AM
TheOtherMisterP: Yes, the Canadian tradition is very touching.

Not to sound cold-hearted, but it's easier to have tributes like that when your annual death toll is measured in dozens of soldiers, not hundreds or thousands.


Not that you were cold hearted, but you forget WHY these soldiers are dying...

That's like saying that the kid that was hitting the bee's nest shouldn't get stung and we should feel bad for him, but not for the kid across the street that came over and tried to put the nest back in place.
 
2009-01-03 12:36:10 AM
ansius: chakalakasp: Cragganmore on ice righttrapped-in-CH: I'm having Cragganmore on ice right now, and I was feeling guilty because I didn't have any good reason to be drinking. But now I do. This is to you, heroes.

ICE?!

THE SCOTTISH COMMUNITY FROWNS UPON YOUR SHENNANIGANS


wasn't the guy in the middle supposed to be Irish?


He's got a point. But still, well played. That needs to become a meme

Anyways, more on the topic, good for them. Any soldier that died while overseas should be considered a hero. Think about it. What about those who didn't get the chance to single-handedly take a rebel fortress and hold it until reinforcements arrived, or didn't have the chance to fend of waves of insurgents while the civilians escaped: Many died while being transported from one base to another, or was poisoned while handing out food to freed citizens. It is intirely unfair to not call them hero's. Whatever their actions, their motives were pure: They joined their country's armed forces to alleviate others pain with their own, to free, to protect, and to serve. American, Canadian, or NATO, it doesn't matter: they all joined for the same reasons. While many may not agree with the war in Iraq, or its motives, they still gave their lives to free the people from tyranny and give them the protection they deserve, and it will serve as a base, a bastion of hope against tyranny, and a jumping off point if we should ever be spurred into action to free and alleviate the people's sufferring under tyranny and oppression.

And on the topic of why American prosetions aren't publized: too many dissenters would ruin it, disgracing both the soldier, and their grieving family. While everyone is entitled free speech, that is taking it too far. If you wish to protest, do so elsewhere: don't add to the already suffering family's grief. Those people deserve no less than to be locked up. It is a great stain upon our nations honor that such things are nessassary to preserve the nobility of our soldiers. And those who claim Bush and his administration don't care about their soldiers: as said before by another members; the Vice president himself called his family to extend his condolensces for their loss, and the Vice president called only because the President himself was abroad. You may disagree with the war: but don't take it out on the soldiers. My sincere condolences to all who have lost loved ones during the war, and good luck to those being sent to reinforce freedom in the Middle-East.
 
2009-01-03 12:38:25 AM
The thing is that even if you are against the war in Afghanistan you still should have utmost respect for the men and women serving their country.

I'm not sure there is a military solution to Afghanistan. But I do know that those who died doing their orders deserve respect.
 
2009-01-03 12:41:22 AM
40below: Temescal: I'd be more inclined to think that they (the US) don't publicize theirs as much because they're worried that, rather than turning into a respectful salute to people that gave all (you can question the motives of people above them, but their own motives are usually fairly selfless), it would turn into some media circus/protest, reuniting the scummiest people from all sides, from the Christian fundie with signs saying that God killed them to punish us for not stoning gays, to the trustafarian brandishing completely unrelated flags/signs saying that if only we all went vegan, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

Yeah, it's funny. This a spontaneous thing that's been happening for six years now, not organized by the government or the veterans' organizations or anyone else. People just show up in the thousands every time a Canadian soldier is repatriated, and to my knowledge, there has never been one single protest. It's a citizen's army, and this is how we say thanks to people who died with the Canadian flag on their right shoulder that we never met. You should see the thousands of people who line the route from CFB Trenton to the 401 regardless of the weather.

Ordinary people just show up, pay their respects and leave. And as I said above, anyone who tried to politicize this - either for or against the war - would be in for a short, sharp and unpleasant awakening. We Canadians might look laid back and say "Sorry' a lot, but there are lines you don't cross. The lines on the bridge are one of them.


True, though I'm getting kinda irked about the media handling of it now - when a local station started having their highway of heroes jingle (I'm not joking, they have a song about it they play) and coverage of the travel down it, it's becoming less about true respect for dead and more about being a patriotism-off. It has been a respectful and touching gesture, but it's starting to get tacky as the media takes the ball and runs with it.
 
2009-01-03 12:43:45 AM
Evocatus: Submitard can eat a bag of dicks and wash it down with a Canadian beer.

If you'd ever been to a funeral for an American serviceman I'm pretty sure you would have seen how this country salutes our fallen.

Now, kindly close your cockholster.


^^And that's why we can't have public processions in America.^^

My parents tell me it used to be much better than this. It's a nice thought, but it does little to assuage the exasperation of living here now.

In any case, Evo, he's referring to the current administration doctrine of not allowing any public coverage of returning war dead, including photos of caskets arriving at Dover. The downplaying of the human toll of our military adventures abroad actually began decades ago with the enormous public controversy over the Vietnam War. (Given the toll on all sides, you're not going to get me to say 'conflict'.)

The Bush administration has reduced this to zero coverage, enforced by explicit order. The reasons vary depending on who you believe. The official explanation is 'respect' for the fallen, though this contradicts our entire history of how we regard our war dead. Many, including me and most people I know, believe that it is to minimise the visible human cost of these latest controversial foreign engagements. It is now illegal even to take photographs.

As a journalist, I've had the privilege of seeing quite a few of these illegal photos, usually supplied by servicemen who are frustrated by the policy. They want us to run them, but we are told that to do so is to risk investigation by the federal government. (We did run illegal war images, once, at the very earnest behest of a unit leader on temporary leave.)

I want to say this about these images: Nearly all of them are very similar in composition and subject matter, specific visible elements, and even the angles they're shot at. (I have sometimes suspected that there's some reason for this, such as restrictions of time or space in which it's possible to take them. At the same time, I also realise that there are only so many different ways to photograph draped caskets on a cargo plane.)

Despite this, no two images are ever the same to look at. No matter how similarly framed the image, no matter how carefully uniform the arrangement and draping of the caskets -- which are all, of course, entirely identical themselves -- and though to my untrained eye the interior of a military cargo carrier will always look the same, each single casket nevertheless seems entirely unique, not only in context of others in the same image, but among all the caskets in all the images, including those from other wars. For any feeling human, it's impossible not to see that each one is a person, a family, a whole life, now ended. They are as individual as any two people anywhere on earth, however similarly dressed and presented.

For a short time at first, I thought this was my own private way of seeing them, but I soon learned that we all had the same experience. Either we are all mad, or our government is mad, for not trusting as citizens to be able to respect our homecoming dead as the people they are and the stories they represent. Our government fears that we will only see rows of dead, and will only be able to count them. But I can say from my own experience that we are better than that, still, if only we could be allowed to prove it.
 
2009-01-03 12:45:07 AM
I agree exactly with TrevorP

/not a war supporter
//huge fan of those that serve
 
2009-01-03 12:46:11 AM
This thread is a study in blanket statements.
 
2009-01-03 12:47:33 AM
I laugh my ass off when people whose greatest accomplishment in life will be not eating the last bagel in the company break room shiat all over people who serve in the military.
 
2009-01-03 12:49:27 AM
40below: towatchoverme: And he got very quiet and sad and asked if i was ever going to war, too.

Yup. I'm going to Afghanistan next week, and my kids have already asked me if I'm going to die. Not likely, but I didn't actually get a vaccine against IEDs.


Good luck, Bud!
 
2009-01-03 12:51:40 AM
Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Evocatus: Submitard can eat a bag of dicks and wash it down with a Canadian beer.

If you'd ever been to a funeral for an American serviceman I'm pretty sure you would have seen how this country salutes our fallen.

Now, kindly close your cockholster.

^^And that's why we can't have public processions in America.^^

My parents tell me it used to be much better than this. It's a nice thought, but it does little to assuage the exasperation of living here now.

In any case, Evo, he's referring to the current administration doctrine of not allowing any public coverage of returning war dead, including photos of caskets arriving at Dover. The downplaying of the human toll of our military adventures abroad actually began decades ago with the enormous public controversy over the Vietnam War. (Given the toll on all sides, you're not going to get me to say 'conflict'.)

The Bush administration has reduced this to zero coverage, enforced by explicit order. The reasons vary depending on who you believe. The official explanation is 'respect' for the fallen, though this contradicts our entire history of how we regard our war dead. Many, including me and most people I know, believe that it is to minimise the visible human cost of these latest controversial foreign engagements. It is now illegal even to take photographs.

As a journalist, I've had the privilege of seeing quite a few of these illegal photos, usually supplied by servicemen who are frustrated by the policy. They want us to run them, but we are told that to do so is to risk investigation by the federal government. (We did run illegal war images, once, at the very earnest behest of a unit leader on temporary leave.)

I want to say this about these images: Nearly all of them are very similar in composition and subject matter, specific visible elements, and even the angles they're shot at. (I have sometimes suspected that there's some reason for this, such as restrictions of time or space in which it's possible to take them. At the same time, I also realise that there are only so many different ways to photograph draped caskets on a cargo plane.)

Despite this, no two images are ever the same to look at. No matter how similarly framed the image, no matter how carefully uniform the arrangement and draping of the caskets -- which are all, of course, entirely identical themselves -- and though to my untrained eye the interior of a military cargo carrier will always look the same, each single casket nevertheless seems entirely unique, not only in context of others in the same image, but among all the caskets in all the images, including those from other wars. For any feeling human, it's impossible not to see that each one is a person, a family, a whole life, now ended. They are as individual as any two people anywhere on earth, however similarly dressed and presented.

For a short time at first, I thought this was my own private way of seeing them, but I soon learned that we all had the same experience. Either we are all mad, or our government is mad, for not trusting as citizens to be able to respect our homecoming dead as the people they are and the stories they represent. Our government fears that we will only see rows of dead, and will only be able to count them. But I can say from my own experience that we are better than that, still, if only we could be allowed to prove it.


No, actually, it just the fundies and radicals who pretty much go around "funeral bashing", tipping over caskets and screaming how they died because god hates them or screaming how they are baby killers or destroying the enviroment or their culture and all other assorted bullshiat. It has just gotten to the point where it is nessassary for it to be done that way so the family members aren't caused any more grief.
 
2009-01-03 12:52:42 AM
Isotope: 40below: We'd throw his ass off the bridge into traffic.

Maybe we need more Lumberjack Justice down here. =P


F*ck, I'd toss him right under the wheels of the lead limo. Better still if it was a Bradley. Or a tank.

Someone slip a note to our President-Elect: We want to start honoring our war dead and not ship them home in plain brown wrappers like they were some kind of dirty little secret.
 
2009-01-03 01:09:22 AM
I was jumpin up and down on my bed the other day in front of my big window,
watching the cops shut off blocks and blocks around my place

when i saw the funeral procession down Wellesley sll the way
to Queen's Park, presumably, before ultimate burial.

The end of the highway of heroes.


I don't know if it makes a hero to get blown up by a roadside bomb
in a country that can't bother to quash its terrorists by itself

maybe it does.



I am certainly willing to give my own life
in the name of love

but not that pointlessly
ya know?
 
2009-01-03 01:11:53 AM
40below: You pretty much got it. But up here, we expect them to represent our values, even when they're in a place where they're killing people.

Our army is seen as a part of our society, not apart from it and not above it - they take orders from civilians and answer to them directly. It's the difference between a republic and constitutional monarchy.


Okay I'm sorry I can't take this patriotic bs. Theres a reason why American soldiers face roughly a quarter of the mortality rate of Canadian soldiers, its not because the Canadian soldiers are an integral part of Canadian society. Its because there are no good lines of communication between the CDN military and the CDN public.

I've seen the SCAW protests, while they may be extreme, the average Canadian is not much better informed about what the military does. Many of them don't see the need for the military, they don't see what the military does, or why it does it. Yet its not because the Canadian military doesn't serve the people of Canada, quite the opposite they do far too much with far to few resources. They are routinely asked to do more with less, and this has caused a bunker mentality in much of the military.

They do not believe the public understands their needs, nor do they believe the public cares, so they don't talk to the public, they don't explain the mission in any depth, when they do it is often behind closed doors to officials and intellectuals who are already part of the choir. They don't justify military expenditures, no matter how essential they may be. They do not attempt to educate the public, they simply feel its a lost cause.

In American operational security briefings there are lines warning that operational security can become too extreme, interfering with the ability to justify their efforts, damaging PR, and harming military operations.

In the Canadian briefings of the same, such warnings against being overly zealous are muted or entirely absent. They do this in the claim that they can't be too careful with soldiers lives. The truth is that the lack of communication has the result of soldiers being inadequately equipped. Because they don't have the proper equipment they get killed.

But don't let me interrupt the great Canadian past time of feeling superior to Americans.
 
2009-01-03 01:14:35 AM
I've travelled on the highway several times immediately before or after the hearses go by. Its a very proud but also sad site to drive under the bridges all adorned with Canadian flags with firefighters, paramedics, cops, and ordinary Canadian citizens standing respectfully as the procession goes by.

Canadians are fairly divided on the issue of Afghanistan, but I can't think of any that don't show some respect to our troops for their sacrifice.
 
2009-01-03 01:14:50 AM
They disembarked in '45,
And no one spoke and no one smiled;
There were too many spaces in the line.


A different time, a different place, but the feeling is the same. It's awful when a parent has to bury their child.
 
2009-01-03 01:15:49 AM
Gyrfalcon: Isotope: 40below: We'd throw his ass off the bridge into traffic.

Maybe we need more Lumberjack Justice down here. =P

F*ck, I'd toss him right under the wheels of the lead limo. Better still if it was a Bradley. Or a tank.

Someone slip a note to our President-Elect: We want to start honoring our war dead and not ship them home in plain brown wrappers like they were some kind of dirty little secret.


Actually The Conservative Government here tried to ban photos of coffins and go the whole George Bush route but fark them with a stick . The newspapers shot photos throught the fence with telephoto lens and printed them .. the Government tried blocking the view of the ramp ceremony with large pieces of fabric ( a knife does wonders )and still shot photos , the Primier of Ontario re named the highway to the "Highway of Heros ", and people line it all on their own , So if your government is not doing enough . Ignore them and do your own thing .

Oh and Fred Phelps .. It is a criminal offense in Canada to disrupt a funeral that said if anything happened to him a person may argue "grievous insult" had motivated them to sending Fred to see his maker and unless there was jury nullification ( has happened in one of the largest cases in Canada ) the most they would get would be five years and be out in two and a half I believe
 
2009-01-03 01:18:39 AM
realjd: Apparently, Bush or Chaney personally call the families of every fallen soldier.

This is about the most upstanding thing the outgoing administration has ever done. Frankly I didn't think they had it in them.

/It doesn't make up for the all the other stuff though
//slashies
 
2009-01-03 01:21:58 AM
Perhaps people needed to be educated about the Patriot Guard Riders. An organization of bikers who provide escort to fallen soldiers.

Escorts aren't just for the fallen. Riders volunteer for send offs and welcome homes, as well.

The PGRs were original formed to provide a buffer between families at funerals and that piece of shiat Phelps and his lunatic church members, but their mission has been expanded over the years.

"Lest I keep my complacent way I must remember somewhere out there a person died for me today. As long as there must be war, I ask and I must answer was I worth dying for?"
[Eleanor Roosevelt]

/Proudly a member of the Patriot Guard Riders
 
2009-01-03 01:23:30 AM
Because they don't want anti-freedom, anti-democracy, pro-jihadist, peace-at-any-cost leftist morons like you f#@ks smearing our heros blood all over your ungrateful Bush hating faces while screaming to the world that freedom isn't worth fighting for, and that these true heroes died in vain - which they did not.

The condescension and contempt of the left is nauseating. If you morons had not been trying to belittle the mission and the efforts of our all volunteer military just for political gain against Bush and the Republicans, then our heroes would probably be getting the honor and respect they deserve.

And I am glad that Canada is honoring their soldiers' sacrifice by pulling out and quitting before the job is done in the Middle East.

Dope slap! It isn't Vietnam and was never anything like it. We are on the side of, and have the support of, large majorities of the people in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
2009-01-03 01:24:34 AM
Here's some 3am funerals and the evil Americans throwing rocks at dead soldiers.

i149.photobucket.com

i149.photobucket.com

i149.photobucket.com

i149.photobucket.com

i149.photobucket.com

i149.photobucket.com

i149.photobucket.com

Ssssshhhhhhhh. Nobody knows these Soldiers are dead because Bush won't let journalists put bodies on the cover of Time. Unlike all the other presidents.
 
2009-01-03 01:34:41 AM
Kingsteve119 said:
No, actually, it just the fundies and radicals who pretty much go around "funeral bashing",... ...It has just gotten to the point where it is nessassary for it to be done that way so the family members aren't caused any more grief.

FAIL

Your explanation doesn't explain why the Bush administration has banned ALL media coverage of the caskets coming off the planes at a SECURE MILITARY BASES. Or why there is a blanket prohibition of media at Arlington National Cemetery funerals. Even when the family of the deceased forcefully attempts to make sure there is media coverage of an Arlington funeral, the media is kept very far away.

FYI, Fred Phelps and anti-war protesters can't even get close to most of these locations. They can't get on a military base, and they would be kicked out of Arlington if they showed up to protest a funeral there. (FYI 99.x% of anti-war protesters don't aggressively protest war dead, it's bad for their cause). As for Fred Phelps, he is a crazy bastard, but he does not have media credentials.

It's long been clear that these policies have nothing to do with the Fred Phelps' of the world. These policies have everything to do with the Bush administration's attempt to keep Americans from seeing the real costs of our wars.

The Bush Administration was trying to avoid the nightly news effect that occurred during the Viet Nam war. Almost every nightly newscast during the Viet Nam war featured American flag draped caskets returning. Every single night, on TV, flag draped American caskets returning. This happened night after night for years on end. It was a PR nightmare for the war.

Sure, most Americans these days know that we're losing soldiers, they know the caskets are returning to the US, but they don't see it because Bush has prohibited us from seeing it.

Seeing it makes all the difference.

The prohibitions are just one part of an overall PR campaign designed to keep the wars from becoming even more unpopular. In a lot of ways, they've worked. I can only hope Obama will put an end to this censorship and let our citizens see the true cost of these wars. Maybe he'll even start a highway run like that in Canada so that our soldiers can receive the send off they deserve.


/BTW, there's a reason protesters aren't a problem with these Canadian processions. They wouldn't be a problem in the US either.

It's because the journey travels down a limited access (interstate) highway. Protesters can't stand in the highway or beside the highway without getting arrested. The Fred Phelps of the world can't get attention without having a prominent place to protest. The Canadian procession doesn't give people like Fred Phelps a spotlight. It just zooms down the highway. Sure, Fred could stake out a single overpass, but he'd get 0.6 seconds of coverage.

We could do exactly the same thing here in the US. Fred Phelps isn't stopping it, we don't it because it would be bad PR for the wars.
 
2009-01-03 01:37:04 AM
Isotope: zappawizard: Isotope: That's awesome. But yeah, do that here and Frd. Phlps. would start making regular appearances.

Can we send him to Afghanistan?


/Phlps makes a good argument against free speech

Rumor is, he makes a good living off the first amendment (i.e., show up in public, say some crazy shiat, and sue the fark out of the people that try to stop you).


It's the truth, only it's much worse even than that. I spent four years quietly researching these people* and even on a few occasions tried to discreetly observe them directly but was usually spotted** and so I ended up 'meeting' them a few times. They are extremely evil people. Not because of what they say about gays, or about America. They don't give a crap about gays, or anyone else, or about the U.S. or any other country. They only care about getting our money into their pockets. The entire thing is a gigantic scam to make a lot of money, which depends on the rest of us paying attention to them. The only way to deal with them successfully is to ignore them. (I know of one community that did this, though I won't say where, for the reasons below.)

* I will no longer mention them by any of their distinctive names, and encourage others to do the same. They scan the Net for mentions, and compile those hits to determine where they're likely to get attention. If they see themselves mentioned in context of a place enough times, they'll show up there and try to get people riled up. Then sue the shiat out of anyone who gets too close. They carefully document everything that happens, and witness each other. That's how they make their money. The entire clan is all lawyers, and they all live together in a compound held in private trust as a religious organisation, making it impervious to most ordinary search, audit, or subpoena. And as they're all legally related, none of them can be compelled to testify against any of the rest of them. It's airtight. If you see them, pay no mind to anything said, no matter how awful, don't say anything, don't make eye contact, and walk away as if you did not see or hear them. Anything else puts you at risk. And don't use their names online, and if possible, don't talk about them at all, except in indistinct terms to warn and advise others. These are very dangerous people, and right now, there's really nothing anyone can do about them other than avoid them.

** Their whole street show is a carnival barker act, with the singular goal of getting people upset and attracting confrontation. This is to draw people in close enough that they can claim you did something, for which you'll be sued. It's little more than a sophisticated kind of mugging, perpetrated by a large and very dangerous organised criminal family. If you even look at them, you're already at risk. It's not even safe to turn and run, as they've already figured out how to twist that into further evidence that you did something (after they all witness each other). You can only act like they're not there at all. If you are in earshot, they will do everything they can to get your attention. They often say horrible and disgusting things to try to make people angry. If you are in visual range, they will try very hard to get your attention. It's very hard to plausibly ignore them; they have spent many years perfecting this scam and are very, very good at it. Only those who really understand what's really going on can likely manage to completely ignore them. Even knowing what I do, they honestly scared the crap out of me, even at a good distance. You really do get a feeling of total evil in their presence.
 
2009-01-03 01:40:57 AM
I don't see why this wouldn't work in the US. Unlike the Vietnam war, the people support the soldiers, even if they don't like the war.

And what kind of scum would go out and protest? I hope they will be beaten to death by the supporters if they do crap like that.
 
2009-01-03 01:42:35 AM
America to Subby: Fark you and the horse you rode in on.
 
2009-01-03 01:44:52 AM
Fixed the tag.

i243.photobucket.com
 
2009-01-03 01:49:16 AM
anurak: As a proud Canadian, I have a right to this soapbox.

The Highway of Heroes is nothing but propaganda. These fallen soldiers are not heroes, they are doing their job. Just dying in the line of duty is an honour, but it does not make you a hero.

This in actuality belittles the actual heroes, the VC recipients, the Cross of Valour recipients, those are true heroes. The people lining the streets have bought it hook, line, and sinker.


Pretty much every story of a VC recipient I've ever read, they think they're out there just doing their job as well.

For reference:

Hero - 1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.


You might have a different definition of a hero, but any volunteer soldier who willing puts his life on the line in service of others is a hero to me. Debate all you want about the puppet masters pulling the strings, but don't say volunteering to stop evil in a far off land is anything less than heroic.
 
2009-01-03 01:50:50 AM
cryinoutloud: I think the feelings in Canada might be different if the war was their war. The U.S. started this war, we dragged a bunch of other people into it, and there were a lot of people against it right from the start. The U.S. also has this mentality of "we have to be the biggest, the best, the most righteous" and our soldiers are supposed to be the representatives of it. And again, some Americans have a problem with this.

It's a simpler thing in Canada. Solders are brave people who got killed. U.S. soldiers are supposed to be all things to all citizens. And we ARE going to expect them to represent, even if we don't know what it is they stand for.

I am probably not putting this exactly right, so don't flame me. But a soldier in the U.S. is not the same as a soldier in Canada.


There's another difference. We don't start wars. Not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing to start a war, but we don't, which gives us a different mentality.
 
2009-01-03 01:52:43 AM
I'm going to skip the flamewars and national pride smugness on both sides. As a citizen of the US, I have only one question for both nations:

Can we please please PLEASE send Fred Phelps to Canada?

/please?
 
2009-01-03 01:53:51 AM
Wow...that really kicks ass.

If they tried that in America, there'd probably be street peddlers on every block selling flashing american flag pins and stuff.
 
2009-01-03 01:55:16 AM
evilgreg: Can we please please PLEASE send Fred Phelps to Canada?

Sounds reasonable to me. After all, they sent us Celine Dion.
 
2009-01-03 02:00:31 AM
IXI Jim IXI: evilgreg: Can we please please PLEASE send Fred Phelps to Canada?

Sounds reasonable to me. After all, they sent us Celine Dion.


I don't want them to keep him. Read the thread. :)
 
2009-01-03 02:04:27 AM
evilgreg: I don't want them to keep him. Read the thread. :)

Damn.

Well, we can throw Celine off a bridge...
 
2009-01-03 02:06:26 AM
moralpanic said:

I don't see why this wouldn't work in the US. Unlike the Vietnam war, the people support the soldiers, even if they don't like the war.

And what kind of scum would go out and protest? I hope they will be beaten to death by the supporters if they do crap like that.



You're absolutely right.

Of course it would work in the US. The procession in Canada travels down an interstate (inter-province) highway. It doesn't give nut-job protesters any place to effectively protest.

The reason we don't do that here in the US is because the Bush administration has done everything they can to limit negative war news. To them, it's better to see our soldier's sacrifice ignored than allow the build-up of negative war coverage.

The Bush administration took these lessons from the Viet Nam war. The nightly news coverage during the Viet Nam war tended to show a new group of flag-draped caskets returning almost every single night. This happened almost every night, for years and years There is a general consensus that this video, repeated every single night was effective in bringing bring home the cost of the war to the average American. Those moving images are credited with sharply turning public sentiment against the Viet Nam war.

The reason we don't let the media see our war dead is PR, pure and simple. The reason we don't have a road of heroes is PR, pure and simple.

We can only hope that Obama stops the censorship and lets our soldiers get the send off they truly deserve.
 
2009-01-03 02:11:46 AM
evilgreg: I'm going to skip the flamewars and national pride smugness on both sides. As a citizen of the US, I have only one question for both nations:

Can we please please PLEASE send Fred Phelps to Canada?

/please?


You already tried. We sent him back.
//insufficient postage
//plus the border fees.
 
2009-01-03 02:15:22 AM
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
YOU COMMIE FARKERS PIECES OF FARKING COMMIE shiatE!
 
2009-01-03 02:21:18 AM
SchlingFocker: TheOtherMisterP: Not to sound cold-hearted, but it's easier to have tributes like that when your annual death toll is measured in dozens of soldiers, not hundreds or thousands.

It's not a matter of logistics.

It's a matter of an American public not mature enough to treat the event with the respect it deserves coupled with an American government not mature enough to publicly display the sheer number of troops we've lost.


Quoted to ensure your ignorance doesn't become lost in the shuffle.
 
2009-01-03 02:34:31 AM
These idiotic displays (in any country) are always meant to make the participants feel good about themselves more than showing respect for the fallen. Soldiers die in war. Ruck up move out, and press on. Save it for Nov 11.
 
2009-01-03 02:37:56 AM
k, I'm Canadian, and totally annoyed by some of the smugness being demonstrated here. It's good that we do this, 'nuff said.

I totally support the Afghan mission, am glad that there are brave people willing to risk their lives for it, but the grim price that we pay for it shouldn't be swept under the rug. I still think that ultimately their sacrifice will be worth it.

as an aside, however, I am really pleasantly surprised at the quality of writing and reporting on the part of the National post (For the yanks: National post is the equivalent of Fox news north of the border.)
 
2009-01-03 02:40:25 AM
Isotope: 40below: We'd throw his ass off the bridge into traffic.

Maybe we need more Lumberjack Justice down here. =P


Word.
 
2009-01-03 02:49:09 AM
Sylvia_Bandersnatch: The Bush administration has reduced this to zero coverage, enforced by explicit order. The reasons vary depending on who you believe. The official explanation is 'respect' for the fallen, though this contradicts our entire history of how we regard our war dead. Many, including me and most people I know, believe that it is to minimise the visible human cost of these latest controversial foreign engagements. It is now illegal even to take photographs.

Thank you for explaining this in a coherent form.

It's one thing for American traditions of maintaining privacy for fallen soldiers, their families, and funeral proceedings, yet it's another issue entirely for our federal government to bully photographers and historians from taking accurate records of the war, including the human cost.
 
2009-01-03 02:55:22 AM
You don't win a war by dying for your country. You win a war by making the other son-of-a-biatch die for his.


Every man is scared in his first battle. If he says he's not, he's a liar. Some men are cowards but they fight the same as the brave men or they get the hell slammed out of them watching men fight who are just as scared as they are. The real hero is the man who fights even though he is scared.
 
2009-01-03 03:12:58 AM
Yamaneko2: spi13: I am an Ugly American, I remember being in Canada about 11 years ago, well befor 9/11 or anything that has come since.....I remember what so impressed me at the time was all the Canadian flags all over everything...they were all unabashedly proud to be Canadian........it was a child's faith, I was humbled, envious and embarised.........I wished that I could feel that way about my home.

There was a HUGE change in Canadian public patriotism (at least to this American tourist's eyes) between 1991 and 1998. It may have had something to do with the two secession referenda in Quebec. Or it may have had to do with a beer commercial: "I AM CANADIAN!"

In 1990 and 1991, it was relatively hard to find books about Canada in Canadian bookstores (including The World's Biggest Bookstore in Toronto near Eaton Centre). "Bullwhip Days", a book about American slavery, topped the charts in late May, 1990. The book had merit, but Canada was going through the throes of Meech Lake's protracted and painful demise while the GST loomed in the next year. In 1991, Quebec was planning another referendum, the GST struck and still the Americana section of a Guelph bookstore was spacious and capacious while Canadiana got four whole shelves.

(Despite this low profile, Canadian-ness was so overwhelming in Toronto that after five days I wondered what the hell all those obnoxious Americans were doing at Eaton Centre in Toronto -- probably buying Cuban cigars.)

By August 1998, two failed referenda had intervened, Joe Canada had his "I AM CANADIAN!" screamfest from sea to sea to sea and the Canadian history and culture sections ballooned. But maybe it meant nothing in reality, since somehow Tim Horton's, Laura Secord Ice Cream and Eaton's got swallowed into American megacorps.


You forgot 9/11.

Canadians were probably the second most psychologically affected people after Americans by 9/11. Despite aforementioned Canadian smugness, Canadians felt the same sort of pride and sense of invulnerability when it came to defense icons like the pentagon. seeing it smoking was a complete shock and watching the FDNY and national guard spring into action inspired Canadians in a way that hadn't been seen since ww2.

I joined the reserves shortly after 9/11 and during my training I was taught quasi officially that we were not to wear our uniforms in public as we might be attacked or mobbed. It happened often in the past.

Anti military sentiment (particularly in Quebec) was rampant before 9/11 and then it mysteriously vanished. I nice to see that Canadians were able to move past it and that soldiers are Canadians too.
 
2009-01-03 03:28:08 AM
i habeeb there should be some variations of the hero tag to accommodate americans, canadians, british, and australians. fark everyone else though.

srsly.
 
2009-01-03 03:45:19 AM
Old news.
 
2009-01-03 03:47:31 AM
maasedge: realjd: Apparently, Bush or Chaney personally call the families of every fallen soldier.

This is about the most upstanding thing the outgoing administration has ever done. Frankly I didn't think they had it in them.

/It doesn't make up for the all the other stuff though
//slashies


I would like to say that's the least they could do, and not mean it in a good way, but sadly, that's actually a step up from what they were doing.

This was an administration that had to be shamed into putting real signatures on the death notices, instead of using a machine called an Autopen that mass-produces forged signatures.
 
2009-01-03 03:52:55 AM
Canucks aren't afraid to let the public mourn their dead troops -- they know they have a clean conscience.
 
2009-01-03 04:12:16 AM
imfallen_angel: This thread shows why many Americans are hated throughout the world... nothing is good enough, especially when someone else does it better.

The least that all soldiers should get when they fall in the act of duty (and here we have Canadians working/dying while cleaning the mess the Americans did) is some dignity and respect.

And that's why the only Americans (that the world sees or hear about) that are deserving of this, are those portrayed in movies.(most being fictional) The real heroes are far in between, and most Americans I've seen in here are whining little smart-arses that talk big, think that they know it all, but aren't much more than basement dwellers.


So I say;

God bless American, or should I say Hollywood's portrayal of it.... if not for that, where would you stand?

/with some exceptions, of course

//Godspeed to all fallen soldiers (Canadian or not) that died to try and make the world a better place for others.


Tell me, do you try to be this hateful and farking stupid, or does it come naturally to you?

You are the most backwards, hate filled farking idiot that I have seen yet on Fark, and thats saying something. The only Americans that are deserving of this are the ones portrayed in movies? You've got some mighty big brass ones on the internet, I'd like to see you say that to a Marine, or to a D-Day vet who stormed Omaha beach.

You degenerate slime-filled waste of useful flesh, how farking dare you. In the second world war Americans, British, French, Canadians and all the other soldiers of the allied powers DIED to liberate Nazi occupied Europe and restore humanity to the occupied countries. But I'm sure you think the only Americans that deserve to be honored are the ones made up in fake history for feel good patriotic American audiences, dont you?
Never mind the American cemetary that overlooks the beaches of Normandy where thousands of young American men died in an attempt to liberate France. Nevermind the young American men who died in the South Pacific liberating the Phillipines and protected Australia from Japan. Nevermind the Americans that liberated the death camps, nevermind all of them, right?


Yes the Iraq War isnt popular, yeah it probably shouldnt have happened, but it did and you degrade the entire anti-war argument with your hateful words. It is wonderful what the Canadians do for their war dead, but you stain that noble act with your viciousness and your hate.

Burn in hell you farking waste of a useful human body, because you clearly have no soul.
 
2009-01-03 04:21:12 AM
ViperTomcat: imfallen_angel: This thread shows why many Americans are hated throughout the world... nothing is good enough, especially when someone else does it better.

The least that all soldiers should get when they fall in the act of duty (and here we have Canadians working/dying while cleaning the mess the Americans did) is some dignity and respect.

And that's why the only Americans (that the world sees or hear about) that are deserving of this, are those portrayed in movies.(most being fictional) The real heroes are far in between, and most Americans I've seen in here are whining little smart-arses that talk big, think that they know it all, but aren't much more than basement dwellers.


So I say;

God bless American, or should I say Hollywood's portrayal of it.... if not for that, where would you stand?

/with some exceptions, of course

//Godspeed to all fallen soldiers (Canadian or not) that died to try and make the world a better place for others.

Tell me, do you try to be this hateful and farking stupid, or does it come naturally to you?

You are the most backwards, hate filled farking idiot that I have seen yet on Fark, and thats saying something. The only Americans that are deserving of this are the ones portrayed in movies? You've got some mighty big brass ones on the internet, I'd like to see you say that to a Marine, or to a D-Day vet who stormed Omaha beach.

You degenerate slime-filled waste of useful flesh, how farking dare you. In the second world war Americans, British, French, Canadians and all the other soldiers of the allied powers DIED to liberate Nazi occupied Europe and restore humanity to the occupied countries. But I'm sure you think the only Americans that deserve to be honored are the ones made up in fake history for feel good patriotic American audiences, dont you?
Never mind the American cemetary that overlooks the beaches of Normandy where thousands of young American men died in an attempt to liberate France. Nevermind the young American men who died in the South Pacific liberating the Phillipines and protected Australia from Japan. Nevermind the Americans that liberated the death camps, nevermind all of them, right?


Yes the Iraq War isnt popular, yeah it probably shouldnt have happened, but it did and you degrade the entire anti-war argument with your hateful words. It is wonderful what the Canadians do for their war dead, but you stain that noble act with your viciousness and your hate.

Burn in hell you farking waste of a useful human body, because you clearly have no soul.



You hit the nail on the head there Viper. That guy is pretty much just a waste of oxygen.

/Canadian
//Not Smug, just proud
 
2009-01-03 04:24:30 AM
After reading through this thread, and getting a bit teary eyed I wondered when/if our world will ever exist with the need for war. Such senseless destruction of lives...I wonder what would happen if people in every country in the world stopped voluntarily joining their respective military's.
 
2009-01-03 04:29:18 AM
Canada really pisses me off sometimes. Other times we get things so totally right my chest literally bursts with pride.
 
2009-01-03 04:39:42 AM
brisken: i habeeb there should be some variations of the hero tag to accommodate americans, canadians, british, and australians. fark everyone else though.

srsly.


Yeah, everybody knows Danes, Dutch and Frenchmen can't be heroes, even when they die fighting alongside those other guys.
Happy new year, and a hearty "fark you" to you, too.
 
2009-01-03 05:10:16 AM
Um, unlike Canada, the United States is a bit packed together. I would venture to guess that soldiers don't travel 100 miles to the coroners office around here, because you know, we're not all about the 'hey let's drive 2 hours for a basic service' types of people.
 
2009-01-03 05:21:23 AM
I have news for you subby, our war heros do get escorts. I personally have riden over sixty miles escorting one of ours, and the whole 60 miles was lined with people holding flags! I've personally been to 60 plus funerals just to hold a flag which included 500+ people like me. And that doesn't include the random towns people who joined us or stood along the sides of the road with flags as the funeral procession passed. Nor does include the fire trucks I've witnessed that had ladders extended to hold up huge flags with the firefighters saluting as we passed.
 
2009-01-03 05:38:03 AM
Canadians should really get over themselves. The whole thing about "getting it" leads me to believe Canadians aren't as nice as they make themselves out to be. Must be nice to smug about something that's common respect and courtesy. It's still a nice thing that they do. I guess since there are so few people in the Canadian "army" and they did so little for the war that when one dies it's kind of a big deal. Still, kudos, be careful not to smother in the smug.
 
2009-01-03 05:59:40 AM
I'm quite proud of Canada. It's like we always try to do the right thing I suppose.

There are still some dicks though.
 
2009-01-03 06:01:14 AM
Ekillr: That would make it easier for the self-important, entitled asshats to stage protests to serve their own agendas and throw rubbish and animal blood at the hearses.

And this happens where? Cite specific overwhelming examples of this behavior. One incident doesn't count.
 
2009-01-03 06:34:25 AM
For all the smug Canadians, you are a little slow on the uptake, we've been doing it for YEARS:

Link (new window)

And this is before the Patriot Guard Riders formed to help the escort process.

You have it easy, you have only one highway your war dead travel down. We have multiple roads scattered across a large country. Yet in all 50 states, we have people like lining up to pay their respects like is displayed above.
 
2009-01-03 06:39:31 AM
I have read every comment i could without wanting to tear out my eyes, and this is my conclusion.

Canadians, Americans, or "other," the douchery all smells the same, they just taste different.

Canadian douches are like vanilla. Bland, familiar, taking a beautiful ritual and using it to take potshots at the easy target, forgetting that it's the same rhetoric that has been spewed for over half a decade.

Americans are like chocolate. Dark, looking for that sweet balance but totally lose it when they can't figure out that not everybody likes chocolate, and don't understand that there are other flavors in the freezer.

If we could find some strawberry French douches, the neopolitan douche trifecta would be in play.

/chocolate
/wants ice cream now
/wrote this on a cell phone
 
2009-01-03 07:35:19 AM
ParagonComplex: I guess since there are so few people in the Canadian "army" and they did so little for the war that when one dies it's kind of a big deal. Still, kudos, be careful not to smother in the smug.

Your ignorance and the irony in this post is astounding.
 
vid
2009-01-03 07:41:22 AM
Evocatus: Ssssshhhhhhhh. Nobody knows these Soldiers are dead because Bush won't let journalists put bodies on the cover of Time. Unlike all the other presidents.

There you go, letting facts get in the way of a good anti-Bush WHARRGARBL.

I don't like all of Bush's decisions, or even most of them, but one of the best things of the coming Obama administration is that we can finally reasonably expect all the B.D.A. crybabies on Daily Kos and elsewhere to STFU.
 
2009-01-03 07:44:42 AM
sens: Fixed the tag.

/A hero in Canada? I had no idea how revered those guys who open up the Tim Horton's first thing in the morning are up there....
 
2009-01-03 07:59:37 AM
40below: Isotope: But yeah, do that here and Fred Phelps would start making regular appearances.

Up here, he'd only do it once. We'd throw his ass off the bridge into traffic.


He and his crowd would have been arrested for hate speech by now if they were Canadian. As it is, they are not allowed across the border because "IRL trolling" is not a legitimate reason to enter this country.
 
2009-01-03 09:05:36 AM
These are our sons and daughters and they deserve our best.
 
2009-01-03 09:14:02 AM
You should feel guilty watering down scotch. :)

trapped-in-CH: I'm having Cragganmore on ice right now, and I was feeling guilty because I didn't have any good reason to be drinking. But now I do. This is to you, heroes.
 
2009-01-03 09:14:59 AM
 
2009-01-03 09:16:06 AM
Watching_Epoxy_Cure: They're brought back at 3am to minmaximize the opportunity for worthless pieces of shiat to exploit their death send out more troops for their own ends.

FTFY
 
2009-01-03 09:16:55 AM
vid: Evocatus: Ssssshhhhhhhh. Nobody knows these Soldiers are dead because Bush won't let journalists put bodies on the cover of Time. Unlike all the other presidents.

There you go, letting facts get in the way of a good anti-Bush WHARRGARBL.

I don't like all of Bush's decisions, or even most of them, but one of the best things of the coming Obama administration is that we can finally reasonably expect all the B.D.A. crybabies on Daily Kos and elsewhere to STFU.



Crybabies?

What do you call the babies that never complained about Bush policy?

Moron babies?
 
2009-01-03 10:10:16 AM
40below [TotalFark] Quote 2009-01-02 08:43:30 PM
Isotope: But yeah, do that here and Fred Phelps would start making regular appearances.

Up here, he'd only do it once. We'd throw his ass off the bridge into traffic.


Please? Is that a promise?

That is Awesome! I salute my Canadian brothers!!!!!! Bravo!
 
2009-01-03 10:33:06 AM
trapped-in-CH: I'm having Cragganmore on ice right now, and I was feeling guilty because I didn't have any good reason to be drinking. But now I do. This is to you, heroes.

You should feel guilty for pouring that over ice.
 
2009-01-03 10:38:39 AM
cassanovascotian +1
 
2009-01-03 10:50:15 AM
These are our sons and daughters and they deserve our best.

Of course they do. But it is also wrong for so many in this thread to imply that there is nothing done our sons and daughters when they pay the ultimate sacrafice since we've been doing it for a long time.
 
2009-01-03 11:05:41 AM
ViperTomcat: imfallen_angel: This thread shows why many Americans are hated throughout the world... nothing is good enough, especially when someone else does it better.

The least that all soldiers should get when they fall in the act of duty (and here we have Canadians working/dying while cleaning the mess the Americans did) is some dignity and respect.

And that's why the only Americans (that the world sees or hear about) that are deserving of this, are those portrayed in movies.(most being fictional) The real heroes are far in between, and most Americans I've seen in here are whining little smart-arses that talk big, think that they know it all, but aren't much more than basement dwellers.


So I say;

God bless American, or should I say Hollywood's portrayal of it.... if not for that, where would you stand?

/with some exceptions, of course

//Godspeed to all fallen soldiers (Canadian or not) that died to try and make the world a better place for others.

Tell me, do you try to be this hateful and farking stupid, or does it come naturally to you?

You are the most backwards, hate filled farking idiot that I have seen yet on Fark, and thats saying something. The only Americans that are deserving of this are the ones portrayed in movies? You've got some mighty big brass ones on the internet, I'd like to see you say that to a Marine, or to a D-Day vet who stormed Omaha beach.

You degenerate slime-filled waste of useful flesh, how farking dare you. In the second world war Americans, British, French, Canadians and all the other soldiers of the allied powers DIED to liberate Nazi occupied Europe and restore humanity to the occupied countries. But I'm sure you think the only Americans that deserve to be honored are the ones made up in fake history for feel good patriotic American audiences, dont you?
Never mind the American cemetary that overlooks the beaches of Normandy where thousands of young American men died in an attempt to liberate France. Nevermind the young American men who died in the South Pacific liberating the Phillipines and protected Australia from Japan. Nevermind the Americans that liberated the death camps, nevermind all of them, right?


Yes the Iraq War isnt popular, yeah it probably shouldnt have happened, but it did and you degrade the entire anti-war argument with your hateful words. It is wonderful what the Canadians do for their war dead, but you stain that noble act with your viciousness and your hate.

Burn in hell you farking waste of a useful human body, because you clearly have no soul.


I guess you lack reading skills...

My post has not one iota of hate in it... I'm just pointing out what many of the "American" posts are just lame, full of crap and smugness, and can't handle when another country does something that it wished that they'd have done first or made the world believe that they do it better.

Did you miss my slashy? I have to upmost respect for the troops... but not much for the politicians that send them to promote themselves and try to grab a place in history.

What war was "necessary" in the last 20-30 years? None... but Americans (at least those that supported them) think that they are better for having killed so many civilians using the lives of the troops as fodder.

And the reality is, the "cleanup" is a mess and more innocents are still dying over this nasty blunder.

But do I blame the troops? nope, they are just doing what they were told to do.

And my post has to do with the attitude of the Americans in THIS thread (but then, most threads sound the same)...

And your post is a LOT more hateful, and childish, as it only shows that you lack comprehension of what I said.

So let me spell it out for you... if you read this thread, you might notice that for many posts from the "Americans", it's all about their image, and no-one should ever look "better" than they do, otherwise, they get all pissy about it.

As far as my "Hollywood" statement, that's a whole different story... but it's the whole image thing again.

Yes there's many US soldiers that were many heros, that is NOT what I'm "debating"... but you missed the point... so why bother.

This should have been a thread dedicated to the fallen soldiers... and instead, it's been a pissing match for the American posters.
 
2009-01-03 11:05:41 AM
HoneyDog: I have news for you subby, our war heros do get escorts. I personally have riden over sixty miles escorting one of ours, and the whole 60 miles was lined with people holding flags! I've personally been to 60 plus funerals just to hold a flag which included 500+ people like me. And that doesn't include the random towns people who joined us or stood along the sides of the road with flags as the funeral procession passed. Nor does include the fire trucks I've witnessed that had ladders extended to hold up huge flags with the firefighters saluting as we passed.

hooray! flags!

/eat the flag. eat it.
//obscure?
 
2009-01-03 11:32:04 AM
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/focus/fallen-disparus/index-eng.asp

BTW, this is the updated link.

/Editing my bookmark
 
2009-01-03 11:55:17 AM
steelpeg: oldebayer: You are correct, and hit upon the main reason the Bush administration simply didn't get it. Protests and dissent and free speech like this are why America exists in the first place.

Yes, I agree. Protesters standing on the side of the road throwing "animal blood" and yelling "baby killers" and "God killed him because of gays" is definitely the right thing to do to a fallen soldier. Because you get to have your free speech no matter the pain and agony you cause others. They don't matter anyway, do they...


There are lines the government should not cross - if they have the authority to regulate "hurtful" speech, they have the freedom to circumvent the 1st amendment and it's principles at will.

That being said, the Constitution is designed to place limits on the Federal Government (and to a lesser extent, the States). Angry Mobs, on the other hand, can fill the void between what the US can do, and justice.

And yes, I don't particularly trust mob justice - it just happens to be better than government justice some of the time.
 
2009-01-03 12:29:34 PM
Unfortunately here we'd have code pink and crazy religious nuts from Kansas celebrating at the funerals. So maybe 3 am isn't such a bad hour after all
 
2009-01-03 02:06:33 PM
imfallen_angel, you are a douche. I've pointed out numberous times that we do that here too. I've even put up a link showing one of them. What's more, we've been doing it since at least 2003. I don't care who does it better, that is irrelevant. Its people like you and the subby who imply we don't do it all who are being the smug ones.
 
2009-01-03 04:00:34 PM
In a very sad irony, I think this thread manages to answer all its own questions.
 
2009-01-03 04:09:31 PM
When you kill terror, do you shoot at a vowel or a consonant?
 
2009-01-03 04:10:26 PM
HoneyDog: imfallen_angel, you are a douche. I've pointed out numberous times that we do that here too. I've even put up a link showing one of them. What's more, we've been doing it since at least 2003. I don't care who does it better, that is irrelevant. Its people like you and the subby who imply we don't do it all who are being the smug ones.

IF that's how you see it, good for you...

Resort to name calling all you want as you don't have the intelligence to understand what I said.

It's only making you the smug one.
 
2009-01-03 04:48:15 PM
starsrift: ParagonComplex: I guess since there are so few people in the Canadian "army" and they did so little for the war that when one dies it's kind of a big deal. Still, kudos, be careful not to smother in the smug.

Your ignorance and the irony in this post is astounding.


No, you. All of that.
 
2009-01-03 05:46:29 PM
IF that's how you see it, good for you...

Resort to name calling all you want as you don't have the intelligence to understand what I said.

It's only making you the smug one.


ROFLMAO! I understood perfectly what you've said.

This is what you said:

I'm just pointing out what many of the "American" posts are just lame, full of crap and smugness, and can't handle when another country does something that it wished that they'd have done first or made the world believe that they do it better.

First, what makes you think you do it better? Or is that just arrogance speaking.

The way I see it, neither one is better than the other, just different.

In that paragraph, you point blank said that the US wished they did it first, which they did, back in 2003 for sure.

This thread wouldn't have been a pissing match for American posters if the Canadians hadn't been so smug, and so totally wrong. So go DIAF.
 
2009-01-03 06:55:22 PM
HoneyDog: I have news for you subby, our war heros do get escorts. I personally have riden over sixty miles escorting one of ours, and the whole 60 miles was lined with people holding flags! I've personally been to 60 plus funerals just to hold a flag which included 500+ people like me. And that doesn't include the random towns people who joined us or stood along the sides of the road with flags as the funeral procession passed. Nor does include the fire trucks I've witnessed that had ladders extended to hold up huge flags with the firefighters saluting as we passed.

Hello Sister!

/PGR member
//not even close to the number of rides you've been on
 
2009-01-03 07:22:45 PM
Hey Ogre!

All those rides are tough, especially when you have to leave the house by 3:30 am to get there. Granted, up here, some have been via car or truck. No way am I going to take the bike out during the winter. In fact, we've been out in weather below zero. I've got a big stock of the foot and hand warmers. We always get at least one person who forgets to bring some for themselves.
 
2009-01-03 09:55:53 PM
Magic_Button: If a person has the guts to run in to burning building to save a baby, hurray for them . If they were lied to and there is no baby , that is sad but still, hurray for them.

great way of putting it.
 
2009-01-03 10:01:24 PM
anurak: As a proud Canadian, I have a right to this soapbox.

The Highway of Heroes is nothing but propaganda. These fallen soldiers are not heroes, they are doing their job. Just dying in the line of duty is an honour, but it does not make you a hero.

This in actuality belittles the actual heroes, the VC recipients, the Cross of Valour recipients, those are true heroes. The people lining the streets have bought it hook, line, and sinker.


You're in the service too eh?
/R WPG RIF
 
2009-01-03 11:47:35 PM
HoneyDog: IF that's how you see it, good for you...

Resort to name calling all you want as you don't have the intelligence to understand what I said.

It's only making you the smug one.


ROFLMAO! I understood perfectly what you've said.

This is what you said:

I'm just pointing out what many of the "American" posts are just lame, full of crap and smugness, and can't handle when another country does something that it wished that they'd have done first or made the world believe that they do it better.

First, what makes you think you do it better? Or is that just arrogance speaking.

The way I see it, neither one is better than the other, just different.

In that paragraph, you point blank said that the US wished they did it first, which they did, back in 2003 for sure.

This thread wouldn't have been a pissing match for American posters if the Canadians hadn't been so smug, and so totally wrong. So go DIAF.


Just sad....

Let me spoon feed it to you then as it appears that it's just over your head:

I said:

many of the "American" posts

as in this thread... so go read this thread and then try to reply with some intelligence.

Maybe if you take your head out of your arse, you might notice that many posts from the "American" posters are whining about what the story is about, hence, what I've stated.

But since you appear to have set your mind that the Canadian posts are the smug ones, and the American ones are all nice and full of candy (which is kinda what my post was about in the first place), well, who am I to give you a puppet show to explain this...

The pissing contest, is what you are promoting, not me.

Too bad you can't deal with it.

/you'll get over it, I hope
 
2009-01-04 12:09:46 PM
imfallen_angel, I guess you failed reading comprehenison 101. I've read the thread, and what was being complained about wasn't the story, it was the self righteous attitude display by many of the Canadian posters, and the erroneous belief that we don't do something similar here.

And never once did I say the American posts were nice as candy, some are pissed off and rightfully so about the arrogant Canadian posts such as yours. Which, you last two posts to me are clearly filled with smugness and arrogance.

Keep in mind, just because you have delusions, it doesn't mean I, or anybody else, should goosestep to those beliefs.
 
2009-01-04 01:03:28 PM
towatchoverme: Just to blow some American minds a little more:

The highway used to be called the McDonald-Cartier Freeway. It was renamed the "Highway of Heroes" by a Liberal Premier of Ontario.

We have the same left/right divisions as you guys ... but for the most part we refuse to let political affiliation define us, trump our humanity or override our common sense.


So maybe a farkism needs to be revised:

There's no hate like liberal American hate.

/There.
 
2009-01-04 03:26:52 PM
HoneyDog: imfallen_angel, I guess you failed reading comprehenison 101. I've read the thread, and what was being complained about wasn't the story, it was the self righteous attitude display by many of the Canadian posters, and the erroneous belief that we don't do something similar here.

And never once did I say the American posts were nice as candy, some are pissed off and rightfully so about the arrogant Canadian posts such as yours. Which, you last two posts to me are clearly filled with smugness and arrogance.

Keep in mind, just because you have delusions, it doesn't mean I, or anybody else, should goosestep to those beliefs.


Funny, but from this and your other posts:

1) you are stating that it's ok for Americans to get all huffy about another country having pride.

2) the Americans' posts that are filled with smugness, with attacks, etc., THOSE you have NO problems with.

Sure there's gonna be some that will push it on both sides, but my post was in response to the crap that most of the Americans posts putting down what the Canadians are doing.

In other worlds, the pissing contest that you are alluding to. If you're going to get all pissy about the "Canadians" that YOU find smug and such, how about doing to same to the Americans?

Anyways, you've proven your stupidity so I'm not going to waste any more time on you, if you can't get it, that's your problem.

This is about showing a little respect for the fallen soldiers, but some of you Americans have to turn EVERYTHING into a pissing contest.

/typical Fark thread... why do I even bother...
 
2009-01-05 12:39:48 AM
imfallen_angel: HoneyDog: imfallen_angel, I guess you failed reading comprehenison 101. I've read the thread, and what was being complained about wasn't the story, it was the self righteous attitude display by many of the Canadian posters, and the erroneous belief that we don't do something similar here.

And never once did I say the American posts were nice as candy, some are pissed off and rightfully so about the arrogant Canadian posts such as yours. Which, you last two posts to me are clearly filled with smugness and arrogance.

Keep in mind, just because you have delusions, it doesn't mean I, or anybody else, should goosestep to those beliefs.

Funny, but from this and your other posts:

1) you are stating that it's ok for Americans to get all huffy about another country having pride.

2) the Americans' posts that are filled with smugness, with attacks, etc., THOSE you have NO problems with.

Sure there's gonna be some that will push it on both sides, but my post was in response to the crap that most of the Americans posts putting down what the Canadians are doing.

In other worlds, the pissing contest that you are alluding to. If you're going to get all pissy about the "Canadians" that YOU find smug and such, how about doing to same to the Americans?

Anyways, you've proven your stupidity so I'm not going to waste any more time on you, if you can't get it, that's your problem.

This is about showing a little respect for the fallen soldiers, but some of you Americans have to turn EVERYTHING into a pissing contest.

/typical Fark thread... why do I even bother...



Bitter much? re-read your Boobies and reference SchlingFocker and others. You are wrong...you generalize and are a bigot.

You are at least correct in that the dead deserve our honor...unfortunately you choose to use them to advance your bigotry.
 
2009-01-05 05:03:07 PM
johnny_vegas: imfallen_angel: HoneyDog: imfallen_angel, I guess you failed reading comprehenison 101. I've read the thread, and what was being complained about wasn't the story, it was the self righteous attitude display by many of the Canadian posters, and the erroneous belief that we don't do something similar here.

And never once did I say the American posts were nice as candy, some are pissed off and rightfully so about the arrogant Canadian posts such as yours. Which, you last two posts to me are clearly filled with smugness and arrogance.

Keep in mind, just because you have delusions, it doesn't mean I, or anybody else, should goosestep to those beliefs.

Funny, but from this and your other posts:

1) you are stating that it's ok for Americans to get all huffy about another country having pride.

2) the Americans' posts that are filled with smugness, with attacks, etc., THOSE you have NO problems with.

Sure there's gonna be some that will push it on both sides, but my post was in response to the crap that most of the Americans posts putting down what the Canadians are doing.

In other worlds, the pissing contest that you are alluding to. If you're going to get all pissy about the "Canadians" that YOU find smug and such, how about doing to same to the Americans?

Anyways, you've proven your stupidity so I'm not going to waste any more time on you, if you can't get it, that's your problem.

This is about showing a little respect for the fallen soldiers, but some of you Americans have to turn EVERYTHING into a pissing contest.

/typical Fark thread... why do I even bother...


Bitter much? re-read your Boobies and reference SchlingFocker and others. You are wrong...you generalize and are a bigot.

You are at least correct in that the dead deserve our honor...unfortunately you choose to use them to advance your bigotry.


Spoken like a true American supporting your side of this stupid pissing contest.

As I said, you guys have completely missed the point, but that's hardly surprising.
 
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