Dancingshoes
No just tatum seem to be rather hung up on the fact that Dan takes it in the ass... anyways had to bust his chops on that nothing personal..

I'm not "hung up" (veiled bondage reference?)....
I do think the letter deserved a rather more thoughful reply than (paraphrasing here) 'You're fat and unattractive - deal with it'.
If the woman's husband doesn't want to stick his fireman anywhere near his foetus, he shouldn't have let his swimmers get in there.
"Sorry I knocked you up, Sweetheart. Now I don't want to fark you anymore."
Weak...pathetically weak...and if Savage were anything remotely resembling sensitive, human or thoughtful he would have called it so. He blew it (but that wouldn't be the first time, huh?).
And for all you folks who suggest they resort to strictly oral solution, let's see how eager Papa is to go down after he witnesses childbirth. Now there's an appetizing image.

Savage's response could only have been penned by a deeply biatchy queen. I call 'em as I see 'em.

Chico
Factual things? You're kidding, right?

Unless Tatum's been actually watching Dan & his partner get it on, I don't see anyone sticking to facts here.

Chico...go read some back issues of Savage Love. Dan makes no secret of the "facts" of his sexual preferences or proclivities. Admissions against interest are just as damning in a court of law as eyewitness accounts.

"...who likes lactating women porn"... Jesus you weirdo's..

You know, Seattle's enjoyed Dan Savage for ten years now. He's right there in the paper every week. Its nice to see him gain notoriety out yonder in the rest of the world. But sometimes he says stuff to set people off. He once compared a womans vagina to "a honey baked ham that had been dropped off the top of a three story building."

That sure set off the PC police...

Dan makes no secret of the "facts" of his sexual preferences or proclivities.

And again, I ask you: So what? Have you ever farked a prego yourself? If you have, then maybe you should be writing a sex column.

My point is, just because he's gay doesn't disqualify any advice he might give. I'm not into bondage or watersports, and I probably never will be, but I can understand why they might be a turn on for some people. And a turn off for others.

Pregnancy is a huge change in a woman's body and hormonal makeup. If it doesn't float your boat, there's not a lot you or your partner can do about it.

You don't have to be het to make that call.

I agree with Dan's advice here. The woman shouldn't expect a guy to get turned on if he just can't. I bet his advice to the guy would be different, along the lines of "quit being a baby and find a way to nail your wife!" But the husband wasn't looking for advice, the wife was, and advising her to relax and try to get back to normal after the birth will probably be helpful. I actually read the column, read the advice, and then realized that I have been being something of a schmuck for allowing myself to just not get turned on by my pregnant wife. So, you know, you do what it takes, especially because pregnant women are often randier than usual. There's things you can do.

If the belly turns you off, keep some clothes on.
There's plenty of positions that will keep your weight off the belly, if that's a concern.
There's medically no basis for "disrupting the home" since the cervix is closed. (Lamaze makes me smrt.) If you can't get that out of your head, you've given up and should consider trying harder.

(My $.02)

Chico
And again, I ask you: So what?

The FIRST time you asked, "Are you kidding?"

Hmmm, having been pregnant and married, I have to say that though I did feel bad on those occaisions when my husband 'just wasn't interested,' in those last three or four months, it was really just a fair trade for the three months or so after the baby was born in which at first I couldn't and then I just wasn't interested'. Sex returned and was still as excellent...you can live without it for few months.

Both partners and their feelings should be respected.

Okay, I stand corrected.

Has anyone ever heard of a uterus? This kid is protected by a now sealed cervix, a thick membrain, and is floating peacfully inside it. The most it's going to notice is that it's being rocked to sleep.

And though I don't want to personally attack Partisan28, most women with children get no help from their husbands, and have no time to take care of themselves. Perhaps if you cleaned the house and watched the kids while she went walking, she could use exercise to work that weight off. I'm sure she hates it more than you.
Or do you expect her to wipe your ass and wash your socks while you deem her too fat to love?

Girly Nice post.

I keep trying to get my gf to wipe my ass while washing my socks, but wet wool just ain't comfy down there. Until she improves her multitasking, I wipe my own ass.

Well as for the guy cleaning while she goes for a walk, I have to say that no guy wants to spend 10 hours a day busting his balls at the office and get home to do MORE work.

My husband is great about helping out on the weekends/when he can ect, but the implication that men who don't get home and immediately assume the role of Mom so their wife can relax, excercise, whatever, are all lazy seems very harsh.

Of course, the flip side of that is the men that get home from working all day and think that their wife HASN'T been working ("What, don't you just sit around watching TV all day?") and just has all the time in the world to jazzercise, jog, win a marathon ect.

I'm a working mom, my husband is a stay at home dad. And you know what, Llarken? He's taking advantage of you.

I work all day long, come home, cook dinner and take over baby watchin' while Daddy unwinds. Three nights a week he plays in a band. As soon as the baby goes to bed, I have at least 2 hours of free time to do whatever I want. It's *fine*. I love it.

By the way, my son is ONE today! Also, giving birth sucks! Lastly, we had lots of sex while I was pregnant, and the child was not born with a dented head.

I wrote: And you know what, Llarken? He's taking advantage of you.

He = Your Husband

If I don't like gays, does that make me a
homophobe? Don't you actually have to fear
something to be suffering from a phobia?

Hypo* I don't like gays, but I'm not scared
of them. I just don't like them and don't want
anything to do with them.

I don't like smog. And I'm not scared of it.
But, does that make me a smogophobe?? I don't
think so.

Gays pacify themselves by trying to convince
everyone that people who don't like them are
scared-sissys as opposed to people who simply
hate their phuking guts.

Gay people should learn to know the difference.

I can't speak for the gay community, being straight and all, but I think that "homophobia" implies that the dislike actually derives from deep-seeded fear. If a person truly hates gays, there is probably a worse word, like "bigot" or something.

If there's a few gay people out there whose behavior you don't like, I think society would prefer you hate the behavior, and not an entire group of individuals who may even agree with your feelings about the behavior.

I love how if a man won't sleep with a woman, it's his problem and he's an asshole and needs to get over his "hangup". But if a woman won't sleep with a man it's her perogative and her right and he just needs to deal with it.

farkin double standards.

And I especially loved the woman who suggested Mrs. Preggo go find a man to cheat with. If HE did that, that same woman would doubtlessly recomend that she get a divorce and steal half his stuff.

farkin double standards suck.

LawTalkingGuy:

Thats a good point. I'll remember that.

Hubieystu: I can handle the insults. It's OK

Mmmm. Swollen udders. Mmmm. And fetuses. Eww. Icky.

two words...
mucus plug

I don't want to be pokin nowhere near anything called that.

as far as the homophobe statements and Chinagrove's equating gays to smog. I just don't understand that. I've always lived in a large city with different people and gays have always been a part of it. No big deal. Why the hatred and the fear? Yeah, sure, there are some real flaming nancies out there. Big whoop. Here it's not unheard of for a straight couple to go to a gay bar just for a change of pace or to be entertained. And if you want to raise property values in a delapidated neighborhood, move the gays in. KC has several neighborhoods that look beautiful now that the "ass poking pole smokers" have taken over. But that guy on the HGTV channel gets on my nerves.

Girly: Has anyone ever heard of a uterus?

I have, and I can name the other 8 planets too. We're not all pig-ignorant here on FARK.

Savage is an asshat. Why won't he help Katie Kill Kittens?

http://www.magicwand4katie.com/

Well, I figured I should chime in since it seems I'm the only gay man on here right now.

I agree that Dan was slightly insensitive about the issue - but that doesn't make him unqualified. It's not like anyone but the husband and wife (or god forbid, the boyfriend and girlfrend) are the ones who need to assess their own sexual needs.

A loving couple should not have an issue discussing this openly. A woman will not be heartbroken if he admits that he's not in the mood. I never honestly thought people had sex after about the second trimester anyway.. it's all news to me.

And about the gay thing... there are plenty of straight people I don't like, but that doesn't make me a heterophobe. I dislike places in California but that doesn't make me xenophobic.

and ChinaGrove, I'm not really that fazed that you don't like gays. I can tell you that gay friendliness is so mainstream these days that you're very rapidly becoming the minority. I think anyone who dislikes an entire segment of society DOES have issues.

Happy farkin' Monday: most women with children get no help from their husbands

Not only do I work 2 jobs (main job 40+ hours, no paid overtime) but I help at home every chance I get. I do dishes, vacuum, laundry, make dinner and give our little guy his bath every night. And that's not counting the complete remodeling of our house since we started planning a family. I'm not looking for a gold star but all of this comes after a long day of work. And my wife needs a break after dealing with everything that comes with raising a 2 year old. And I do it gladly.

I don't know what kind of woman would expect anything less from her husband. I know a few, I just don't understand it. One of my wife's friends was shoveling snow while pregnant. And she was showing. Dad to be was sitting on his ass watching TV.

monkihedNot everyone has the same idea of how things should work. I was merely standing up for the women and men in our position, not attacking other ways of doing things. How others choose to live their lives/live out their marital roles is completely up to them. However, I felt that some of us in the traditional roles were being affronted, so I did a little sticking up for us.

As for my personally being taken advantage of, I've never heard of ANYTHING more rediculous. My husband gets up at 6am and works all day, eating lunch at his desk. I get up two hours later, play with kiddo/do light house cleaning until his nap time, take an hour for myself during that nap, and an hour to house clean, then kiddo wakes up and we do some more playing/light working. When hubby finishes work, he's tired, I'm tired, and dinner is already ready via me. All cleaning is postponed until after kiddo goes to bed (at a regualr bedtime every night) After which I finish cleaning up the dishes, he finishes up work he's STILL doing and then we spend time together/he'll go out or I'll go out, or we'll get a baby sitter and we go out together.

Where in this equation am I being taken advantage of? He works, I work, we have a good relationship with eachother and with our child. If you choose to work, good on you, mate. But just because someone makes a different choice than you doesn't mean that they are 'being taken advantage of"

I was a little disturbed by the readiness of people to suggest she cheat on her husband.

As for the "when wifey's horny, hubby's gotta play": I've seen that attitude from my wife. If she's got a cold or just isn't in the mood, no biggie, but if I'm not in the mood, I've gotta get it up damnit. I suppose in the universe of things to complain about this is pretty minor however.

Burrhead, what does your wife do, exactly, around the house? It seems your day never stops and on the weekends you're doing the remodeling stuff. Don't you deserve a break, too?

I hope no one is equating a SAH mom of a school-aged kid or two (gee, they're gone for 8 hours a day!) with the SAH mom of an infant or small child. Once the kids are off to school and the mom stays at home, you hope they'd find the time to do the housework/laundry/dishes.

Also, does the house have to be so immaculate? My wife and I (no kids) let the dust build up a bit (in fact, I don't think we've EVER done any dusting) and vacuum every 2-3 weeks. I'm fine with it, so is she. We do dishes and laundry as that's more necessary, sure.

I find it amusing how people 10,000 miles away can determine Llarken's husband is taking advantage of her, without knowing the needs of the kid, the needs of his job, etc.

Who writes to Dan Savage expecting sensitive advice anyway? The column is called SAVAGE LOVE after all.

People write with often inane questions and he amuses by giving often inane or caustic advice that entertains.

If you need sensitive advice, go see a priest or something...

Geez. I just don't get it. We've had two kids and we screwed right up except the last month or so, where it really just becomes physically pretty tough. Dudes, there's this little thing called the cervix down there and it's closed. It's got this thing called a mucus plug or something on it (sorry for the intense medical info, I don't remember the names). One of the signs your wife is going into labor is losing it. 'Yer spooge ain't getting thru to junior.

Stpickrell, i had a nice long post but i forgot to login and lost it. Short version: My wife and I are like Llarken's post; we divide the workload the best we can. We help each other the best we can. I was just countering someone's post above that hinted men don't help. My wife is not Peg Bundy eating bonbons all day. :)

Frankly, I have rarely been more attracted to my wife then when she was great with child. On the other hand, this was a gem: "A woman's pregnant body is beautiful in concept, but beautiful in the way that a mountain gorilla or a panda bear is beautiful." Cracks me up.

On the gripping hand, taking hetero sex advice from a homosexual is akin to taking culinary advice from a fecophiliac. Maybe if I was plotting a rear entry, but other than that, nope.

Burrhead, OK, I was wondering abt you ... you were describing a life that seemed too Peg Bundy-ish for your wife.

My central point stands, hubby deserves a break same as the wife.

People are lazy. Women and men going through pregnancy and early childhood express that laziness in different ways.

I don't know that I'll even feel much like having sex when I'm pregnant. I don't like doing it when I'm bloated because I feel all fat and icky. Of course the hormonal changes may cause me to feel different. If my partner doesn't want to, that's fine. I have plenty of toys to keep me happy. However, fact that a gay man is writing this column with such an air of "know-it-allness" to him just makes him sound like a retard.

Stpickrell: After reading my post it does come off that way a bit. My bad. Like I said, I was stating my case based on a "guys are deadbeats" post up above. I couldn't do what my wife does. She is such a good mother and does it all with no help from either of our extended families. But that's a long story nobody needs to hear.

I gotta agree with Dan's advice for the most part.

I wouldn't find anything wrong with a fit pregnant woman, but most women use pregnancy as a "thank God, now I can get fat" ticket.

So my aversion to pregnant women isn't the baby inside them, it's just a general repulsion to fatties in general.

I it was a hetero man giving love-life advice to a gay person, nobody would have said that he was incapable of having an opinion on the subject. I see a major double standard going on here.

Jay_vee:

No you don't. You made an assumption, treated it as fact and called it a double standard.

BoozeCannon:- Point taken, but it doesn't mean I'm not right. I modify my statement to:-

If it was a hetero man giving love-life advice to a gay person, I bet nobody would have said that he was incapable of having an opinion on the subject.

Happy?

I have to disagree with you, Jay_vee. I have a feeling there'd be quite a few lesbians hurling similar comments to me if I were to say that I understood why they didn't want to be with their pregnant partners.

Maybe so, but the straights (and most people are) on FARK would be unlikely to make that point in my opinion. It's supposition though. No way of testing until a suitable article comes along.

Jay_vee:
[i]Happy?[/i]

Quite. :)

I do disagree with you though. I believe there is a lot of "breeders just don't understand" sentiment out there.

'Course, I'm probably wrong, having had little experience with being criticized by gay folks.

Dammit, misfire on those italics tags. ;)

Here's REAL Savage Love !!!

"and ChinaGrove, I'm not really that fazed that you don't like gays. I can tell you that gay friendliness is so mainstream these days that you're very rapidly becoming the minority. I think anyone who dislikes an entire segment of society DOES have issues. "

If everyone was jumping off bridges it would be considered mainstream. Still, I'm not stupid enough to do it myself regardless of how many others are doing it.

Personally, I consider homosexuality a sexual disorder of the same rank as incest. I don't accept it and never will even if I'm the last person on earth who believes it to be wrong. Millions of people can think the same thing. They can all still be, and often are, wrong.

I don't like Neo-nazis either. That is an entire segment of society as well. Do I have issues? I don't think so.
It's healthy to have a different opinion and be an individual with your own opinions. It's unhealthy when you have no original thoughts or opinions based on your own beliefs, morals, and values.

Spoon feed someone else, I'll feed myself.

I don't really care what argument you have for the acceptance of homosexuality. Nature's laws disagree and you're not going to get around that. Perhaps when I see two male humans or two female humans together and one naturally changes into the opposite sex with no outside intervention... then I'll accept it. I haven't seen nor heard of a single case of it yet.

As for not liking gays in our society. I don't like them because they're gay. I don't like them because of this whole "gay rights" thing. There should be no such thing. You are, first and foremost, a human being and your rights are based on that alone like the rest of us. Your sexuality does not give you any special rights or priviledges. Be a homosexual, live it up and do what you want it's a free country. Just stop running gay parades down the street that my children will see.

Yes, if hundreds of heterosexuals marched down the street with hairy ass cheeks sticking out from leather thongs I would have just as much of a problem with that too.