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(Alternet)   Marches can change American politics   (alternet.org) divider line 284
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3958 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Jan 2003 at 2:54 PM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-01-19 12:28:33 PM  
Only if the ones doing the marching are armed. No one ever stopped anything by begging.
 
2003-01-19 01:40:06 PM  
I don't like to walk, let alone march.
 
2003-01-19 01:46:15 PM  
Do we have to goose step? Because goose stepping is so last reich.
 
2003-01-19 02:57:51 PM  
Matches can start forest fires.
 
2003-01-19 02:58:10 PM  
B0rg9
Damn that was funny.
 
2003-01-19 02:58:19 PM  
Not true, Skwidd. Remember the march from for civil rights? he marched from some state to Washington, D.C. (I think, my American history is pretty messed up)
 
2003-01-19 02:59:12 PM  
Marches can change American weather.
 
2003-01-19 03:00:00 PM  
Damn, mine grammar messed up too.
 
2003-01-19 03:03:16 PM  
It depends on if it is a march by a large group with wide-spread support(civil rights) , or my a vocal minority that no one likes (anti-war pussies).
 
2003-01-19 03:03:45 PM  
Marches can change politics? I thought the elections were usually held in November. Now April! There's a month that can rock your socks off!
 
2003-01-19 03:03:56 PM  
Go ahead, march all you want. All yer gonna do is ensure that Bush wins again in 2004. The net effect of all this hippy drum-beating will be more votes for Ralph Nader, or whoever the Green Party offers us in the next election. There may be a few who swing Libertarian on the right, but the end result will be Bush wins.
 
2003-01-19 03:04:31 PM  
Can't change bush, he's got a hitlerific morale....We're going to Iraq, whether you like it or not

And then on the way back we're gonna make a stopover in N. Korea and Vietnam (Because they'll never expect a rematch)
 
2003-01-19 03:05:02 PM  
Republicans are scum sucking pigs.
 
2003-01-19 03:05:37 PM  
Why will American politics change in March?
 
2003-01-19 03:05:38 PM  
Young_Fart: If Bushie somehow pulls off a 2nd term, im going to Canada....got a place arranged near Edminton (SP?)
 
2003-01-19 03:06:18 PM  
WWWWWWRIGHT THEN.....

Who else doesn't want to go MARCHING up and down the SQUUUUAYRE!
 
2003-01-19 03:06:45 PM  
I prefer the Liberty Bell March by John Philip Sousa.
 
2003-01-19 03:07:55 PM  
Have their EVER been massive pro-war rallies in the US?

does that mean that no war has ever been supported by a majority of people and they're all unjust agression?

Interesting

As for the marching, they can't seem to realize that their marches are pretty much "Keep Saddam in Power so people can die in his Country" marches. If they could find a way to remove Saddam without using the US army, the CIA or any actions, then they should make it known. It seems everything else is either just 'Hey look at North Korea' or 'NO BLOOD FOR OIL!' (on that note, Canada has alot of oil, why don't we invade Canada?)

RF
 
2003-01-19 03:08:16 PM  
OT, but what's this in the upper left corner?
 
2003-01-19 03:08:58 PM  
Edmonton I believe is the spellling.
 
2003-01-19 03:10:18 PM  
Citizens thinking they can influence any of our minds....

Bwa hah hah hah hah hah hah hah hah.

Fools.

My country tis of thee sweet land of mediocrity of thee I sing......

A government of, for, and by the elites. Add a few superBIG corporations and that is where the influence is.

Foolish peasants!!!!

Bwa hah hah hah hah hah hah
 
2003-01-19 03:10:52 PM  
RobbieFal

"Have their EVER been massive pro-war rallies in the US?"

There doesn't need to be, the pro-war viewpoint is well represented in the corporate media. The only way the left (I'm not talking center-right 'lefists' democrats) can get their message out, is through alternate means.
 
2003-01-19 03:13:13 PM  
i have a few issues with the protests this weekend...

- the protests, while obviously anti-war, had absolutely no message. yes, the underlying theme was no iraqi war, but aside from that, no other answer or solution was presented. speaking totally neutrally, the pro-war arguments are so much more effective than those against the war simply because no true anti-war arguments exist. the protesters wanted no war, but also refused to even so much as recognize a true problem, let alone provide any type of alternative solution to that problem. if you are the opposition, you have to offer some type of opposing solution. simply saying war is bad and peace is good gets nothing done and changes no minds.

- anti-war arguments include many of these ineffective catch themes:
1. 'no murder of innocent iraqi civilians'
2. 'no blood for oil'
3. 'george bush isnt president'
4. 'war is never the answer'
5. '[insert unrelated, non-democratic government here] is utopia'
6. 'dont oppress the innocent iraqis'

my rebuttals to each of those:

1. errant american bombs will kill fewer innocent iraqi civilians than saddam hussein does during the course of the war. not to mention the fact that civilians are most defiantly not being targeted.

2. i have no doubt in my mind that this is all about oil. no doubt whatsoever. BUT, even though it is, that doesnt mean that there wont be any good come from this war. sure, the motives are sinister, but youll be enjoying cheap gas and a better economy as the iraqis are enjoying their newfound democracy and mcdonalds.

3. um, yes he his. saying that he isnt doesnt change a damn thing, and certainly wont change the mind of the 'non-president.' i think the 2000 election screwed gore too, but get over it, bush is sitting in the office. (on an unrelated note, had mccain run as an independent as he should have, it would be very clear who the president is)

4. a friend had the answer to this: the revolutionary war. yeah, its probably being a bit technical, but i highly doubt that any of those protesters would have stood in opposition to the revolutionary war. the civil war is an even better example; nobody is going to convince me that jesse jackson and al sharpton (both on hand yesterday) stand opposed to the civil war.

5. 'HEY, heres an idea, while we protest a war with iraq, lets protest democracy and hand out communism/socialism pamphlets! being TOTALLY off message and ironic at the same time will surely change the minds of that bastard, warmongering non-president.'

6. yeah, because saddam hussein is the best thing to happen to those people in a long time. people who feel that the american oppression would be greater than what saddam lays down everyday need to be freed from the american oppression in which they live and sent over to live in the totalitarian utopia that is iraq.

- this isnt really a flaw unique to this weekends protest, but when picking a stage, organizers should probably take into account the signs people like to thrust skyward seen at every protest since the beginning of time. i was no more than 50 feet from the back of the stage (there was no backdrop), and as the speakers got more notable, it became harder to see as people wanted to show them their arts and crafts skills.

i am personally indifferent to a war. i see the merit in attacking, but i also see the reasons not to attack. i can say at this point, however, that the pro-war stance is defiantly backed up by some line of reason and seems to have much more thought and contemplation put into it that the ranting of the anti-war side (and thats not saying that theres much thought put into it, because there is hardly any at all, but its more than the anit-war protester put into their argument).
 
2003-01-19 03:13:42 PM  
I can't help but feel that the former "Billionares for Bush and Gore" have taken over Fark.

(If you had been to either of the protests in the last presedential elections you know who I am talking about)

:)
 
2003-01-19 03:13:43 PM  
01-19-03 12:28:33 PM
Skwidd

Only if the ones doing the marching are armed. No one ever stopped anything by begging.


Gandhi surrenders.
 
2003-01-19 03:13:47 PM  
If there was a corporate media, then they wouldn't be reporting on protests, would they?

If there was a corporate media, then CSPAN would have been showing the FreeRepublic rally yesterday

And if the Corporate media has a thing for nailing the left, how come the reports on Patty Murray and Scott Ritter's cybersex with an 'underaged girl' haven't been beaten into the ground (I'd wait on the Ritter story)

The Corporate Media isn't as nefarious as you think, if what the left does gets them ratings, then they will go with the left

RF
 
2003-01-19 03:14:56 PM  
ah right, I see whats happening now - post loads of flamewar material in quick succession to hopefully tire out the trolls and lead to a nice peaceful Fark......... or not
 
2003-01-19 03:15:06 PM  
 
2003-01-19 03:15:39 PM  
OK I am no republican but this article is nothing but trite, academia bullshiat. Whoever wrote needs a rope and a brick to keep his/her feet on the ground.
 
2003-01-19 03:15:49 PM  
You guys are forgetting that there are many countries that already HAVE nuclear weapons, and they might get a might ticked off with the US going around attacking people and take matters into their own hands.

:)
 
2003-01-19 03:16:04 PM  
Nah.. excess flamewar stuff just causes trolls to try and open a few more windows and then they will run out of memory and have to reboot

RF
 
hnb
2003-01-19 03:16:08 PM  
War is evil. Anyone who is "for war" is manifestly either an idiot or just plain evil.
 
2003-01-19 03:17:38 PM  

01-19-03 03:07:55 PM RobbieFalHave their EVER been massive pro-war rallies in the US?
does that mean that no war has ever been supported by a majority of people and they're all unjust agression?



Good question; I think the last popular war was WWII and no rallies were needed after Pearl Harbor.
 
2003-01-19 03:17:59 PM  
Silly rubes, War is just another form of diplomacy. One that is quite effective.

It is also great for the economy, and I for one am looking for the war bounce in the market.
 
2003-01-19 03:18:06 PM  
Monorail!
 
2003-01-19 03:18:48 PM  
anti-war hippies are not very influential to american voters. if they stopped smoking so much weed and got a haircut and an education, they might be able to influence american thinking through proper channels instead of annoying proper americans through their idiotic babbling.

anti war hippies are not influential!!
 
2003-01-19 03:20:59 PM  
It's so _____________ to see our spoiled, rich, pampered, whiny, leftist white bread college students complaining about something that will not affect their lives in anyway whatsoever.

Maybe they should hold a "protest" at the World Trade Center. What? They can't? Oh, that's right there is no such thing as a World Trade Center anymore, because Islam voted it down!
 
2003-01-19 03:21:01 PM  
People are protesting because the warmongering dumbass in the White House is out of control. He's a failure and an embarassment, as predicted by all of us that voted for Gore, Nadar or anyone else.

 
2003-01-19 03:22:28 PM  
A forced march has a persuasive effect...
 
2003-01-19 03:22:35 PM  
ComaToast:

but you do know that Pearl Harbor was a setup? ;-) (hehe)

There were peace rallies before that telling the US to stay out of Pearl Harbor and probably a few after that.

But, were there pro-war rallies? that means the US people didn't want to go to war with Japan and Germany.

I'm using a bit of weird Mike Rivero logic, the sort of logic that says "There shouldn't be pro-war rallies because everybody who supports War should go to Iraq to fight it" (ignoring common sense things, like you have to be in a certain condition to fight for the US Army and no prominent supporters of any US War (like politicans) have ever fought in it, meaning that no war has ever been justified)

I liked the US foreign policy when it was called 'Big Stick Diplomacy' in 1903. :)

But the Protesters are misguided. Unless their covert FBI-paid tools sabotaging the movement.

RF
 
2003-01-19 03:23:22 PM  
Barneyfifesbullet:
"He's a failure and an embarassment"

His term isn't over yet..
 
2003-01-19 03:24:14 PM  
Another thing these idiots anti-war forget is this is not going to be a war, in any way, shape or form. This is going to be a butt-kicking, on par with nothing the world has seen before.

Lawst timne we were in Iraq, the iraqi elite warriors were surrendering to FRENCH cameramen for gods sake.

French!

Of course the french at the time were busy trying to get the iraqies to take their surrender, so it was sort of a farked up chinesse fire drill.

I do know that the pentagon has already printed up over 5 million pmphlets in arabic on how to properly surrender, we might be able to get a few pointers form the frnech for the next printing...
 
2003-01-19 03:24:34 PM  
...because there is a Republican in office, all the commie dirtbag anti-capitalist scum are whining about the stock market. Ironic! No, moronic!

All these bozo wannabee hippies are gonna do is pi55 off the rest of America into re-electing Bush.
 
2003-01-19 03:24:53 PM  
"If there was a corporate media, then they wouldn't be reporting on protests, would they?"

That's the thing, they don't. There have been protests against the war on Iraq for the last few months, and maybe 1% of them make it onto the evening news. When they do, all they show are 'crazy hipies' and give one or two people a 2 second sound bite, ussually ones who are speaking against the 'violent protestors'.

When was the last time you saw an editorial or debate in the corporate media talking about the Iraq war and oil? The entire left believes this is a war for oil, but it's a viewpoint that is pretty much never seen in the corporate media. Whether or not you agree with it, you have to admit that it's a viewpoint that must be represented.
 
2003-01-19 03:25:39 PM  
BarneyFifesBullet mentioned the Stevie Wonder incident.

Uh huh

I'm sure everybody is wrong but you.

As for the War in Iraq, Saddam sucks at military strategy, the US wins in about 37 days

RF
 
2003-01-19 03:26:24 PM  
01-19-03 01:46:15 PM B0rg9
Do we have to goose step? Because goose stepping is so last reich.


That was too funny to appear in this thread just once.
 
2003-01-19 03:26:32 PM  
01-19-03 03:15:39 PM Jive_Turkey
OK I am no republican but this article is nothing but trite, academia bullshiat. Whoever wrote needs a rope and a brick to keep his/her feet on the ground.


That would be Lucy "G. as in Gone Shopping" Barber.
 
2003-01-19 03:26:33 PM  
MotherFarker: Remember the march from for civil rights?

All those people did was ask the people with the most guns (the US government) to take their side. Your 'rights' mean nothing without a weapon (yours or someone else's) to enforce them.
 
2003-01-19 03:27:20 PM  
I hate the fact that people march/protest, only to what is popular and on the front page. There are many more things happening NOW that go ignored because it is on page 6 in the paper. Why not march against Big Companies screwing stockholders, priests molesting boys, aids in africa, lack of education in the U.S. I was in Portland yesterday and the majority of the "marcher" were kids that hang out on the street anyways, getting a chance to show there rebellion in the public and get away with it. Give me a break people, the freedom they have to march down a street in America was earned by our forefathers fighting for these rights. Go home and join Greenpeace, stay out of the streets.
 
2003-01-19 03:27:28 PM  
Peace marches are a good idea. Makes it easy to identify all the spineless cowards.
 
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