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(WCBStv.com)   Arrest warrant issued for man who legally paid his $56 traffic fine with 112 rolls of pennies   (wcbstv.com) divider line 442
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39949 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Dec 2008 at 2:57 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-12-16 03:59:13 PM
ExRedStater Quote 2008-12-16 03:56:26 PM
This might be considered a thread jack even though the main topic of fines is relevant, but I've always wondered why they are levied in a set dollar form. It doesn't seem fair that a ditch digger who makes $12,000.00 per year is fined the same amount for the same violation as Mr. Rockefeller T. Vanderbilt and his countless stash of moolah. A $600.00 dollar fine is 5% of Mr. Ditch-Digger's income but less than .0000002% of Mr. Vanderbilt's. The penalty is unequal obviously. Why is that? Why not make each fine a percent of annual income? 5% of Mr. Vanderbilt's brazillion dollars would impact him comparably to 5% Mr. Ditch-Digger's $12,000.00, wouldn't it?



My, my how very Socialist of you. So should we set variable penalties for DUI or vehicular man slaughter based on income too?

I really hope you're not being serious.
 
2008-12-16 03:59:36 PM
And as far as the "legal tender" issue goes, if this isn't federal government, then they can determine what payment forms they accept. Ask just about anyone who has ever been on criminal probation. I'll bet you with 5% margin of error, that every one of them will tell you they had to pay their monthly cost of supervision while on probation with a money order and nothing else. People don't want sums of cash in a facility that has a high traffic of convicted criminals. They also don't generally want to trust checks from convicted criminals. Taking credit cards as form of payment costs the organization accepting it more fees.
 
2008-12-16 04:00:13 PM
grizzlyjohnson: SuperNinjaToad: legally they would have had to take it since it is CASH!

No they don't.


Ya, they do.

TITLE 31 > SUBTITLE IV > CHAPTER 51 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 5103
Prev | Next

§ 5103. Legal tender

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.
 
2008-12-16 04:00:21 PM
"are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes and dues"

You are free to refuse it, but unless prior notice has been delivered agreeing to some other basis of payment, by refusing, you are discharging the debt instead.

You see, in this case, the debt exists prior to payment being delivered, and without a contract otherwise, the debtee cannot refuse a legal tender as a form of payment without voiding the debt. In the case of a merchant, by refusing the transaction as a whole, no debt exists and the form of payment is still negotiable.

A ticket is also a public charge...
 
2008-12-16 04:00:38 PM
phunkey_monkey: I know how to stop this type of asshatery...

Install a Coin Star type machine that accepts only one coin at a time. And to make tings more interesting, rig the machine to reject the coin three or four times before it accepts the coin.


I like your style. To top it off, when the last coin is put in and the 'press for receipt' button is pressed, have it say there's no paper left and return all the coins.
 
2008-12-16 04:00:58 PM
MyrnaMinkoff: Well then I need a law person!!


Or a law-talking guy!

Hutz: I move for a bad court thingy.
Judge Snyder [modeled on Robert Bork]: You mean a mistrial.
Hutz: Right!! That's why you're the judge and I'm the law-talking guy.
Judge: You mean the lawyer?
Hutz: Right.
 
2008-12-16 04:01:09 PM
libbynomore2: ExRedStater Quote 2008-12-16 03:56:26 PM
This might be considered a thread jack even though the main topic of fines is relevant, but I've always wondered why they are levied in a set dollar form. It doesn't seem fair that a ditch digger who makes $12,000.00 per year is fined the same amount for the same violation as Mr. Rockefeller T. Vanderbilt and his countless stash of moolah. A $600.00 dollar fine is 5% of Mr. Ditch-Digger's income but less than .0000002% of Mr. Vanderbilt's. The penalty is unequal obviously. Why is that? Why not make each fine a percent of annual income? 5% of Mr. Vanderbilt's brazillion dollars would impact him comparably to 5% Mr. Ditch-Digger's $12,000.00, wouldn't it?


My, my how very Socialist of you. So should we set variable penalties for DUI or vehicular man slaughter based on income too?

I really hope you're not being serious.


We all ready have a progressive tax system. What's the difference? As far as I'm concerned they both amount to a penalty levied by the government for either doing or failing to do something.
 
2008-12-16 04:02:49 PM
Mr. Murder: "I went to the bank and got $56 worth of rolled pennies and went down to the court house and they refused to take it.

I could understand if he had a ton of pennies in his house, but this asshat went out of his way to go to the bank to get the pennies to pay with. This douchery deserves an ass kicking.


you're right. it makes perfect cents to have to pay to park in our own god damned cities. screw anyone that thinks we are over taxed all day long and in every aspect of our lives and that it is ridiculous to pay to park on your own damn street ! the nerve of him farking with system right back. these guys should be jailed, and we should have our taxes raised to cover the cost as well.
 
2008-12-16 04:02:54 PM
Dirtybird971: HunterNIU 2008-12-16 03:51:06 PM
snake822: To all of those that think accepting the pennies as long as he wrote his DL number on them, please consider this. Would you want 112 rolls of pennies floating around into random hands with YOUR DL number written on them? I understand the logic behind needing to track where they were from in case some were short, but there's other ways to do that. Use the citation number, his name, etc. Don't ask him to provide important information that should be kept private on items he has no assurance of whose hands they will end up in.

Bah. My DL# is not that "secret." Nor should yours be.

Really? What is it?


Gimme your First name/initial middle initial last name and DOB and I'll tell you what yours is.

John Lee Pettimore: HunterNIU: wild9: HunterNIU: wild9: Yes that is what I was trying to say and it was coming out grossly wrong.

That is because your facts and interperation of the laws are grossly wrong.

Which is why I am an MIS/IT major and have to take business law classes for some reason. This topic happened to come up in a class once.

Weird. I'm an IT graduate. Never had to take any type of law class.

(Study logic as it pertains to law for fun though.)

They might not have a business law requirement at ITT Tech...

/snark, LOL


NIU... obviously
 
2008-12-16 04:03:00 PM
snake822: And as far as the "legal tender" issue goes, if this isn't federal government, then they can determine what payment forms they accept. Ask just about anyone who has ever been on criminal probation. I'll bet you with 5% margin of error, that every one of them will tell you they had to pay their monthly cost of supervision while on probation with a money order and nothing else. People don't want sums of cash in a facility that has a high traffic of convicted criminals. They also don't generally want to trust checks from convicted criminals. Taking credit cards as form of payment costs the organization accepting it more fees.

That's all fine and dandy and I imagine that there is a little piece of paper that you sign when going on probation that stipulates that you must pay by money order. Same with the lease on my apartment. You have agreed to those terms and to try and change them would not be ok. However, this is not the case here. If they accept cash and do not limit it to certain bills, then the business or agency must accept any legal tender. If the government made 2 ounces of pocket lint legal tender with the same buying power as the dollar, then you could pay with pocket lint unless the business or agency specifically says "Pocket lint will not be accepted as a form of payment."
 
2008-12-16 04:03:17 PM
asmodeus224 2008-12-16 03:56:20 PM
They would have taken it if he wrote his driver's license # on them...that is so they have a reliable means of identifying him if he short changed them. Back before coin counting machines existed at banks and i would bring rolled coinage in to the bank I had to write my account # on the rolls.

This guy is a douche.


He got them FROM a bank..prerolled (the fancy way with the curled edges) and in boxes, bank boxes. You're the douche, learn to read before forming an opinion.

mofomisfit
If this costs that court or the State of New Jersey much more than processing a normal traffic ticket I will eat my hat. And not just any hat, my favorite hat.


I'll pay you 56.00...no 60.00 CASH to see that.
 
2008-12-16 04:03:48 PM
The_Six_Fingered_Man: Says the Coinage Act.

No it doesn't. It establishes (among many other things that are no longer observed or relevant) legal tender. As has been explained ad nauseum here, just because it's "legal tender" doesn't mean anyone has to take it. There is no such provision in the coinage as you describe to require anyone to take all cash if they take any cash.
 
2008-12-16 04:04:40 PM
farm machine: puffy999: pendy575: If the rolls of pennies come up short he has now commited fraud.

Goes too far (unless there was, indeed, intent to defraud). Otherwise, if he miscounts, give him notice, and if that's later than the date by which the ticket was supposed to be paid, he gets an extra fine.

Pretty sure he'd get a receipt for his payment. This would place the burden of verifying that there truly were 5,600 pennies there on the court clerk. Once you have the receipt in hand the transaction is pretty much over with.


If you pay a fine using a personal check or a credit card, you'll get a receipt for that too. That doesn't mean that you won't be liable if the check or credit card transaction bounces later.
 
2008-12-16 04:05:36 PM
But the 22-year-old said there was a condition -- that he write his driver's license number on each roll.

"I simply asked them if I would have to do just this if I were handing in $56 bill. Would I have to write my driver's license number on each bill? They had no response," Gilberti said.


PWN3D.

/outsmart yourself much?
 
2008-12-16 04:05:48 PM
farm machine: libbynomore2: ExRedStater Quote 2008-12-16 03:56:26 PM
This might be considered a thread jack even though the main topic of fines is relevant, but I've always wondered why they are levied in a set dollar form. It doesn't seem fair that a ditch digger who makes $12,000.00 per year is fined the same amount for the same violation as Mr. Rockefeller T. Vanderbilt and his countless stash of moolah. A $600.00 dollar fine is 5% of Mr. Ditch-Digger's income but less than .0000002% of Mr. Vanderbilt's. The penalty is unequal obviously. Why is that? Why not make each fine a percent of annual income? 5% of Mr. Vanderbilt's brazillion dollars would impact him comparably to 5% Mr. Ditch-Digger's $12,000.00, wouldn't it?


My, my how very Socialist of you. So should we set variable penalties for DUI or vehicular man slaughter based on income too?

I really hope you're not being serious.

We all ready have a progressive income tax system. What's the difference? As far as I'm concerned they both amount to a penalty levied by the government for either doing or failing to do something.


Key word there sunshine. We do not have a progressive sales tax system, even though it would make more sense in your world.
 
2008-12-16 04:06:28 PM
snake822: And as far as the "legal tender" issue goes, if this isn't federal government, then they can determine what payment forms they accept. Ask just about anyone who has ever been on criminal probation. I'll bet you with 5% margin of error, that every one of them will tell you they had to pay their monthly cost of supervision while on probation with a money order and nothing else. People don't want sums of cash in a facility that has a high traffic of convicted criminals. They also don't generally want to trust checks from convicted criminals. Taking credit cards as form of payment costs the organization accepting it more fees.

Negative there, ghostwriter... unless explicitly posted, if you accept one form of cash, you must accept all forms. In the case of state and government agencies, they simply aren't afforded the ability to choose, because they cannot opt out of "all debts public" as private actors can do via contract clauses.

Checks are a whole different beast altogether, though they are financial instruments, they are not currency.

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml
 
2008-12-16 04:08:16 PM
It's one thing to be a dick to public servants. It is quite another for public servants to be dicks in return.
 
2008-12-16 04:08:49 PM
ExRedStater: This might be considered a thread jack even though the main topic of fines is relevant, but I've always wondered why they are levied in a set dollar form. It doesn't seem fair that a ditch digger who makes $12,000.00 per year is fined the same amount for the same violation as Mr. Rockefeller T. Vanderbilt and his countless stash of moolah. A $600.00 dollar fine is 5% of Mr. Ditch-Digger's income but less than .0000002% of Mr. Vanderbilt's. The penalty is unequal obviously. Why is that? Why not make each fine a percent of annual income? 5% of Mr. Vanderbilt's brazillion dollars would impact him comparably to 5% Mr. Ditch-Digger's $12,000.00, wouldn't it?

It would never work for government/criminal punishments because of reasons already stated, but since you brought it up, there is one major organization that has been tossing this idea around. Surprisingly, it's the NFL. The point is that a player making $10M a year is hit far less by a $50K fine than some 3rd stringer only making $500K per year. The idea being proposed is that fines should be set as a predetermined % of salary for specific infraction rather than a set $ amount as it is now. Game suspensions already fall within this because your lost pay for that game is based on 1/16 of your annual salary. (16 games in regular season for those that don't know much about NFL)
 
2008-12-16 04:09:04 PM
The_Six_Fingered_Man: Equal Protection and Cruel and Unusual Punishment. One person should not have to pay more for a fine simply because of ability.

So the rich have no incentive not to park illegally anytime gawddamned time they feel like it because they'll never be impacted by the repurcussions financially. Where's Mr. Ditch-Diggers equal protection in that line of thought?
 
2008-12-16 04:09:20 PM
farm machine Quote 2008-12-16 04:01:09 PM
libbynomore2: ExRedStater Quote 2008-12-16 03:56:26 PM
This might be considered a thread jack even though the main topic of fines is relevant, but I've always wondered why they are levied in a set dollar form. It doesn't seem fair that a ditch digger who makes $12,000.00 per year is fined the same amount for the same violation as Mr. Rockefeller T. Vanderbilt and his countless stash of moolah. A $600.00 dollar fine is 5% of Mr. Ditch-Digger's income but less than .0000002% of Mr. Vanderbilt's. The penalty is unequal obviously. Why is that? Why not make each fine a percent of annual income? 5% of Mr. Vanderbilt's brazillion dollars would impact him comparably to 5% Mr. Ditch-Digger's $12,000.00, wouldn't it?


My, my how very Socialist of you. So should we set variable penalties for DUI or vehicular man slaughter based on income too?

I really hope you're not being serious.

We all ready have a progressive tax system.



And that's unfair too. I do find it amazing that some people just can't wait to find new ways to put the screws to people who have worked harder and become more successful than them.

In addition, we have a little thing called Equal protection under the law. That means you can't charge one person more for a speeding ticket than another just because he makes more money.

Thankfully, your idea will never EVER be implemented.
 
2008-12-16 04:09:39 PM
firefly212: if you accept one form of cash, you must accept all forms.

Where is this written? I keep asking and no one can tell me.
 
2008-12-16 04:09:51 PM
libbynomore2: My, my how very Socialist of you. So should we set variable penalties for DUI or vehicular man slaughter based on income too?

I really hope you're not being serious.


So you think a rich people who dui should be fined what is the equivalent of $1 for the average person? Yeah, that's fair...
 
2008-12-16 04:10:17 PM
HunterNIU 2008-12-16 04:02:54 PM
Dirtybird971: HunterNIU 2008-12-16 03:51:06 PM
snake822: To all of those that think accepting the pennies as long as he wrote his DL number on them, please consider this. Would you want 112 rolls of pennies floating around into random hands with YOUR DL number written on them? I understand the logic behind needing to track where they were from in case some were short, but there's other ways to do that. Use the citation number, his name, etc. Don't ask him to provide important information that should be kept private on items he has no assurance of whose hands they will end up in.

Bah. My DL# is not that "secret." Nor should yours be.

Really? What is it?

Gimme your First name/initial middle initial last name and DOB and I'll tell you what yours is.


Please, YOU said that yours isn't secret...now back it up or STFU and stop harping on people.

I wouldn't give that info out and I know that trick of a DL #, you aren't special. but you are all talk, you've got that going for you.
 
2008-12-16 04:12:51 PM
ExRedStater: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Equal Protection and Cruel and Unusual Punishment. One person should not have to pay more for a fine simply because of ability.

So the rich have no incentive not to park illegally anytime gawddamned time they feel like it because they'll never be impacted by the repurcussions financially. Where's Mr. Ditch-Diggers equal protection in that line of thought?


Wrong. They will be impacted financially, however, it won't make as much of an impact as the ditch-digger. They both have the protection under the law not to be punished unusually, which means that they are expected to pay the same fine as everyone else, and not according to their means.

By your line of thinking, the Mr. Ditch-Digger would only have a tiny fraction of a fine since he is unable to pay the standard fine, giving him no financial incentive to park correctly.
 
2008-12-16 04:12:53 PM
Here is an excellent legal opinion on the issue, with reference to actual case law, such as it is: MTAS (new window)
 
2008-12-16 04:13:08 PM
The_Six_Fingered_Man: That's all fine and dandy and I imagine that there is a little piece of paper that you sign when going on probation that stipulates that you must pay by money order. Same with the lease on my apartment. You have agreed to those terms and to try and change them would not be ok. However, this is not the case here. If they accept cash and do not limit it to certain bills, then the business or agency must accept any legal tender. If the government made 2 ounces of pocket lint legal tender with the same buying power as the dollar, then you could pay with pocket lint unless the business or agency specifically says "Pocket lint will not be accepted as a form of payment."

Ah, but see here's the kicker. Let's say as you're reading the piece of paper when you're first starting your probationary period, what choice do you have but to sign it? If you refuse, you're going to jail. You haven't refused to comply with any of the court conditions, only the condition of the probation agency of HOW you will pay. So if what you are saying is correct, what right do they have to send you to jail for only asking to be allowed to pay in legal tender?
 
2008-12-16 04:14:08 PM
Dirtybird971:
Please, YOU said that yours isn't secret...now back it up or STFU and stop harping on people.

I wouldn't give that info out and I know that trick of a DL #, you aren't special. but you are all talk, you've got that going for you.
I'm a little biatch.

/FTFY
 
2008-12-16 04:14:18 PM
Dirtybird971
HunterNIU 2008-12-16 04:02:54 PM
Dirtybird971: HunterNIU 2008-12-16 03:51:06 PM
snake822: To all of those that think accepting the pennies as long as he wrote his DL number on them, please consider this. Would you want 112 rolls of pennies floating around into random hands with YOUR DL number written on them? I understand the logic behind needing to track where they were from in case some were short, but there's other ways to do that. Use the citation number, his name, etc. Don't ask him to provide important information that should be kept private on items he has no assurance of whose hands they will end up in.

Bah. My DL# is not that "secret." Nor should yours be.

Really? What is it?

Gimme your First name/initial middle initial last name and DOB and I'll tell you what yours is.


Please, YOU said that yours isn't secret...now back it up or STFU and stop harping on people.

I wouldn't give that info out and I know that trick of a DL #, you aren't special. but you are all talk, you've got that going for you.


Mine isn't secret, yours isn't secret, his isn't secret, no one's DL# is secret. You know that, and asking for his was just a silly gimmick that didn't go anywhere. I'm not giving my name out on a public internet forum, that doesn't mean it's secret.
 
2008-12-16 04:14:48 PM
The guy is an attention whore. He went to the bank and purposely withdrew $56 in pennies.

And no, they aren't forced to accept it, same as Dunkin' Donuts doesn't need to to take hundred dollar bills.
 
2008-12-16 04:15:02 PM
Dirtybird971: HunterNIU 2008-12-16 04:02:54 PM
Dirtybird971: HunterNIU 2008-12-16 03:51:06 PM
snake822: To all of those that think accepting the pennies as long as he wrote his DL number on them, please consider this. Would you want 112 rolls of pennies floating around into random hands with YOUR DL number written on them? I understand the logic behind needing to track where they were from in case some were short, but there's other ways to do that. Use the citation number, his name, etc. Don't ask him to provide important information that should be kept private on items he has no assurance of whose hands they will end up in.

Bah. My DL# is not that "secret." Nor should yours be.

Really? What is it?

Gimme your First name/initial middle initial last name and DOB and I'll tell you what yours is.


Please, YOU said that yours isn't secret...now back it up or STFU and stop harping on people.

I wouldn't give that info out and I know that trick of a DL #, you aren't special. but you are all talk, you've got that going for you.


Quit your whining, I simply thought it would be even better to prove how easy they are to find out. I didn't even ask you where you lived. You may not even be in the US. Never-the-less DLs are public information. So eff off.

/ F620-3308-2267
 
2008-12-16 04:15:19 PM
This might not be true, but one of my teachers in junior or high school said that you had to accept payment via pennies for $0.49 or less. Anything more, and you could refuse payment and have them come back with larger denominations.
 
2008-12-16 04:15:23 PM
Pocket Ninja: Hi there. I'd just like you to know that I never do anything wrong. It's always the other guy's fault. Always. You know that guy who cut you off on the highway and nearly ran you off the road and then, instead of waving apologetically, flicked you off through the rearview mirror because you didn't anticipate my sudden and reckless move into the lane? Yeah, that was me. The guy who bumped into you in the hallway because he wasn't looking where he was going and then, instead of saying "excuse me," shoved you and told you to watch your step? Yup, me again. The guy screaming at the waiter last night at dinner? Me. The guy sitting on the quiet car on the train and yelling into his cell phone? Me again. What can I say? That's just how I roll.

What I really hate is when situations happen where some miserable asshats try to force me into accepting responsibility for my actions. Like, the time I drank my roommate's beer and then he got all mad because he didn't have any left. Like it's my fault that he left it in the fridge! Farking moron. But he gets all whiny, of course, demands that I replace it. But I fixed him. Shook each bottle up before I put it in the fridge so every one would explode on him before he could drink it. And that other time that I accidentally dropped that ceramic vase in that stupid antique store. Who the hell cares about some dumb ceramic vase? And then that biatch was all like, "you break it, you buy it." So I bought the damn thing, but I let the old biddy who ran the place know exactly what I thought of her and when I got home I posted on Angie's List about what a craphole her store was. I hope she loses all her customers and goes bankrupt. I really do. Farking people. Damn, I hate them.

And so now I got this parking ticket. Do you believe it? A farking parking ticket. The nerve of these goddamn cops. These goddamn money grubbing cops. Who do they think they are. Oh, I'll show 'em. You just wait. They'll be sorry. I'll have the last laugh, and they'll be sorry. You just wait.


You are definitely one of my favorite farkers to see go off. Although I miss hellbentmightypenis and Cxarangus, but you consistently make me laugh while not trying to hurt anyone's feelings.
 
2008-12-16 04:15:31 PM
Talon: They cannot demand he pay in something other than pennies.

Pennies are legal tender and for debts owed...


I was thinking along those same lines, except that I wonder if the refusal to accept legal tender for a debt owed can be construed as an admission that the debt is not owed, vacating the fine and the requirement that he pay anything.
 
2008-12-16 04:15:32 PM
snake822: The_Six_Fingered_Man: That's all fine and dandy and I imagine that there is a little piece of paper that you sign when going on probation that stipulates that you must pay by money order. Same with the lease on my apartment. You have agreed to those terms and to try and change them would not be ok. However, this is not the case here. If they accept cash and do not limit it to certain bills, then the business or agency must accept any legal tender. If the government made 2 ounces of pocket lint legal tender with the same buying power as the dollar, then you could pay with pocket lint unless the business or agency specifically says "Pocket lint will not be accepted as a form of payment."

Ah, but see here's the kicker. Let's say as you're reading the piece of paper when you're first starting your probationary period, what choice do you have but to sign it? If you refuse, you're going to jail. You haven't refused to comply with any of the court conditions, only the condition of the probation agency of HOW you will pay. So if what you are saying is correct, what right do they have to send you to jail for only asking to be allowed to pay in legal tender?


Your fallacy failed in the last sentence. You are not being sent to jail for not agreeing to pay by money order. By not signing the piece of paper, you are rejecting probation (and the payment caveat included therein)and are being sent to jail for your original offense.
 
2008-12-16 04:16:01 PM
A Shambling Mound: It's one thing to be a dick to public servants. It is quite another for public servants to be dicks in return.

I'd call it "business as usual".
 
2008-12-16 04:16:33 PM
andyofne: According to snopes, no one has to accept your pennies except the Federal Reserve.


"That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. U.S. currency and coins can be used for making payments, but merchants do not necessarily have to accept it for all forms of business transactions."


Merchants do not have to accept it, a governmental agency on the other hand...

I'll see you and raise you snopes on pennies
 
2008-12-16 04:16:39 PM
grizzlyjohnson: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Unless a merchant or agency makes this determination made before the transaction (which occurred when the ticket was written), then they have to accept any legal form of tender that they would normally take, in this case, cash and coin. They cannot legally refuse the pennies and instead make you pay in bills.

Sez who? People keep saying this over and over and I guess they think it must be true because they want it to be so badly.

But it's not. Your government office does not have to take any kind of money from you that you think they should. They do not have to accept your douchebag of pennies. If they offer enough reasonable payment options to allow most people to make a payment, that is sufficient.


Yes, they do have to accept it, in certain cases. That's the caveat. You have a ticket from the government, you now have a public debt. As such, you can pay in any form of US currency that you would like to satisfy that debt. Now, if you need to pay the government for a service, like you want a copy of some document or form, or service that has not yet been rendered, then they can require you to pay however THEY would like. For services, you pay how they want you to. For debts (such as the ticket), you pay how you want to (with regards to currency).
 
2008-12-16 04:17:01 PM
Mark this one under who gives a shiat. If you are gonna be a douche expect the same in return.
 
2008-12-16 04:17:11 PM
What's the problem in doing that?

/pennies do make dollars
 
2008-12-16 04:17:48 PM
grizzlyjohnson: firefly212: if you accept one form of cash, you must accept all forms.

Where is this written? I keep asking and no one can tell me.


http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise.

Basically, if you accept cash, you accept all cash, unless explicitly stated as a matter of policy at a time prior to the initiation of the transaction/contract. Barring such explicit statement, the debtor is meeting the terms of the transaction/contract as set forth at the initiation and subsequently fulfilling the requirements as set forth by law.

What it comes down to is that people can't jerk you around by saying you owe them a hundred bucks, but then when you come to pay them, saying "no, I won't accept 5 20s, I demand you come back with a 50, a 20, 2 10s, a 5, four quarters, 20 dimes, 20 nickels, and a hundred pennies"... then when you couldn't break change in time, charging you a late fee or declaring you in breech of your obligation to pay/fulfill. At the time of the issuance of the ticket, there was no notice, nor was it the written policy of the court, that pennies could not be accepted as payment, er go, they are obliged to accept them.

Put simply, the debtor only has to meet the terms of the contracts and policies as prescribed at the time of the contract/debt becoming valid (with the exception of credit card companies, who have their own set of laws)...
 
2008-12-16 04:18:01 PM
The_Six_Fingered_Man: ExRedStater: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Equal Protection and Cruel and Unusual Punishment. One person should not have to pay more for a fine simply because of ability.

So the rich have no incentive not to park illegally anytime gawddamned time they feel like it because they'll never be impacted by the repurcussions financially. Where's Mr. Ditch-Diggers equal protection in that line of thought?

Wrong. They will be impacted financially, however, it won't make as much of an impact as the ditch-digger. They both have the protection under the law not to be punished unusually, which means that they are expected to pay the same fine as everyone else, and not according to their means.

By your line of thinking, the Mr. Ditch-Digger would only have a tiny fraction of a fine since he is unable to pay the standard fine, giving him no financial incentive to park correctly.


why don't you address the real problem? we should not have to pay to park on our streets that our taxes paid to have built in our own towns.
 
2008-12-16 04:18:03 PM
mofomisfit: Mine isn't secret, yours isn't secret, his isn't secret, no one's DL# is secret. You know that, and asking for his was just a silly gimmick that didn't go anywhere. I'm not giving my name out on a public internet forum, that doesn't mean it's secret.

This... except I just gave him mine... D'oh!

/i swear if my driving record gets a blemish I blame fark....
//and i'll pay in pennies
 
2008-12-16 04:18:27 PM
I haven't seen a Kennedy half-dollar in decades though, where'd those go?

Casinos in Colorado use them since there are no 50 cent chips.
 
2008-12-16 04:18:53 PM
"That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. U.S. currency and coins can be used for making payments, but merchants do not necessarily have to accept it for all forms of business transactions."

What I want everyone who reads this paragraph to do is ask yourself a question: Is a municipal court in the State of New Jersey part of the Federal Reserve System?
 
2008-12-16 04:19:06 PM
Sounds like a boatload of douche all around.

First of all, he gets a fine that he probably deserved and rather than just writing a check or paying like most normal people would, he decided to pay like a jackass...which is his right, but he is still a douchy jackass for doing it.

However, even though he is a douchy, there is no way in hell he should have a warrant out for his arrest. He was trying to pay the fine and they were refusing payment.

Regardless of his douche level, he did nothing illegal.

This is kind of silly.
 
2008-12-16 04:19:25 PM
Pocket Ninja:
And so now I got this parking ticket. Do you believe it? A farking parking ticket. The nerve of these goddamn cops. These goddamn money grubbing cops. Who do they think they are. Oh, I'll show 'em. You just wait. They'll be sorry. I'll have the last laugh, and they'll be sorry. You just wait.


I got to my car once with three minutes left on the meter and a $45 ticket on the winshield. I even hollered after the meter maid who was already about six cars down, but the little sneak quickly motored out of sight.

Do you think if I took hours off of work to fight that ticket, with only my word, that I would have won?

You don't know this guy's side of the story. But lovely job painting him out to be a complete asshat.
 
2008-12-16 04:19:28 PM
The_Six_Fingered_Man: We all ready have a progressive income tax system. What's the difference? As far as I'm concerned they both amount to a penalty levied by the government for either doing or failing to do something.

Key word there sunshine. We do not have a progressive sales tax system, even though it would make more sense in your world.



Really, you could draw that conclusion from my post. Quite interesting. You also read tea leaves in your spare time?

You failed to mention cigarette taxes, excise taxes, alcohol, and a myriad of others.

If we want to level the playing field then we could just revoke driving privileges should you get a ticket. No fine. You just lose your license for some pre-determined period of time depending on infraction. This would treat all equal on basis of income.
 
2008-12-16 04:20:20 PM
Back in the day, I had some problems with the billing office in college. They knew that I had a loan pending, and demanded payment before it was due in--the Financial Aid office had sent them notification, and it was sent directly to them, as opposed to me, so it was all inter-office.

The new head of the Billing office didn't care, and sent me a notice that I was going to be booted if I couldn't come up with the cash. Toot sweet.

So, I got ANOTHER loan, for $1256 from my bank--and got the Financial Aid office to send THEM my check, and the fee was about $12.50 for the whole thing, for about a month's worth of time. Had my bank give me the whole thing in rolls of nickles and dimes. Made and appointment by phone to see the head of the department, and then rolled the whole thing over in a wheel barrow.

Then, I demanded a receipt, because I over paid by $2, and wanted to see if she caught it.

After that, the Financial Aid office and the billing department seemed simpatico with my loans and grants.
 
2008-12-16 04:20:24 PM
He's right. Unfortunately, he'll probably get hassled to no end the rest of the time he lives in that a-hole town.
 
2008-12-16 04:20:35 PM
The_Six_Fingered_Man: By your line of thinking, the Mr. Ditch-Digger would only have a tiny fraction of a fine since he is unable to pay the standard fine, giving him no financial incentive to park correctly.

Mr. Ditch-Digger with his $600.00 (5% fine) is gonna be VERY careful where he parks his Dodge from that point on. Just like Mr. Vanderbilt will think twice after dishing out his $60,000.00 (5% fine) as well, don't you think?

/just throwing the idea out there, that's all
 
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