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(Bloomberg)   The Federal Reserve refuses to disclose recipients of $2,000,000,000,000.00 in emergency loans   (bloomberg.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid  
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16576 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Dec 2008 at 5:00 PM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-12-13 09:05:49 PM  

slave1: you obviously come from the Bush/Rove school of "no matter how false/retarded/fraudulent a point is, just KEEP REPEATING IT"

yea, doesn't really work for them either.

this thread has been great though, for adding intelligent people to my favorites.

sorry Zipsplat...you definitely didn't make the cut.


he definitely needs work on the "harrumph" factor. : )
 
2008-12-13 09:05:49 PM  
Uh, not me.
 
2008-12-13 09:06:37 PM  

Nobodyn0se: Awfully Amerocentric, don't you think?


Everybody's a xenophobe when it comes to money.
 
2008-12-13 09:11:14 PM  

paygun: Weaver95: a lawless morass of stinking mud and mayhem

Somehow I will find a way to fit this phrase into conversation as much as possible from now on.


It would make for a fantastic album title!
 
2008-12-13 09:11:34 PM  
ZipSplat: Here they come, the tin foil hat brigade is storming the thread. Batten down the hatches, we're about to get bukkaked with stupid.

You're not the least bit concerned about the fact that the tin-foilers have been right about pretty much everything for the past couple of years?
 
2008-12-13 09:14:57 PM  
I honestly don't understand why the population is not protesting.


/would use stronger words but Gitmo doesn't seam that appealing
// ^ maybe I just figured it out myself
 
2008-12-13 09:15:22 PM  
You stupid ignorant farking fools!

Since when do you think bankers value economic stability? Since a pig values dieting? Bankers love wild market fluctuations, it's what makes them rich.

HERE COMES THE MATH:(and it's not thast complicated)

A banknote is a receipt for real money on deposit, hence the term: "Hard Cash." Fewer than 1 in 1000 people know what that word actually means.

So long as the banker had the public's trust, his receipts were traded like the money itself, and everyone was happy---most of all the banker.

Bankers learned early, they could write up receipts for many times the money they actually had to cover, and as long as they did not get too greedy, everything was fine. Historically, you can issue 25 banknotes for every one unit of money on hand--but that's not cast in stone!

If the banker issues too many banknotes and doesn't have real money to cover, he's in serious trouble. There would be a run on the bank, and he might get lynched.

Smart bankers see a way around this: Let's say I borrow 1,000 units of money, and print out 25,000 units of banknotes, which I lend out at 8% interest. I "earn" a profit of 2,000 units of money, off of money which was never mine to begin with---and throw back 30 units to the lender; I keep the other 1,970 as profit.

But people are getting suspicious, the public is losing faith. I don't want a run on my bank, so I collect 2,000 units on the interest, 2,500 more against the principal---and burn them.

You see what I did there? I have 22,500 units of money on the books to collect--- but there's only 20,500 units in circulation to pay. That means somebody is going to lose, and it sure as hell won't be me! Next year I will do it again, so there are only 16,200 units available--but someone still owes me 20,000 units of money.

They won't be able to pay, I will foreclose---and I will be left holding not only all the money--but all the property as well. I used thousands because that is an easy number to understand, but add zeroes until you get billions and trillions, and it all works the same.

If you hire bankers to run your economy, it is like hiring sharks to run a fish farm. The process is so simple, even "zipsplat" could understand it.

\\ if he would.
 
2008-12-13 09:16:01 PM  

Camper_Bob: ZipSplat: Here they come, the tin foil hat brigade is storming the thread. Batten down the hatches, we're about to get bukkaked with stupid.

You're not the least bit concerned about the fact that the tin-foilers have been right about pretty much everything for the past couple of years?


Bush WAS responsible for 9/11? Those "camps" in Texas really WERE for holding American political prisoners? Bin Laden WAS captured by the Republicans, which was publically announced right before the election to guarantee a McCain victory?

Man, i've missed so much.....
 
2008-12-13 09:17:59 PM  

Camper_Bob: You're not the least bit concerned about the fact that the tin-foilers have been right about pretty much everything for the past couple of years?


Apologists needn't heed such trivialities.

A nice man in a black sedan is going to scoop them all up and take them to the getaway car for being one of the "good ones". : )

Oh, Prunella. Speaking of bukkake stains, check ZipSplat's chin.

My money is on the DNA tests coming back as positive for Bernanke.
 
2008-12-13 09:18:05 PM  
Gitmo doesn't seam that appealing
Gitmo doesn't seem appealing either
 
2008-12-13 09:22:05 PM  

ZipSplat: They are not revealing who is receiving how much because some of them may be in such dire need of being bailed out that if that information were public then other banks, businesses, and individuals would not borrow from that company, hastening their collapse which the Fed does not want. They're not doing "bad" things, they're trying to protect banks from being done-in by preferential borrowing.


Based on this logic why have they told us about the $157B to AIG? Or the potential $14B to the automakers, surely NO ONE with a brain would buy a car from an automaker on the edge of closing their doors - yet this information is public

So why some and not others?
 
2008-12-13 09:24:28 PM  
ZipSplat: You're excused. Calm down, be a grown up. http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/Federal_Reserve.html

Are you an alt for Bevets?
 
2008-12-13 09:24:30 PM  

Nobodyn0se: Bush WAS responsible for 9/11? Those "camps" in Texas really WERE for holding American political prisoners? Bin Laden WAS captured by the Republicans, which was publically announced right before the election to guarantee a McCain victory?

Man, i've missed so much.....


Wrong hat. That cliche is just more crap, anyhoo.
 
2008-12-13 09:32:15 PM  
Gee I wonder how many foreign companies US taxpayers are footing the bill for.
 
2008-12-13 09:34:48 PM  

Nobodyn0se: Zipsplat already did.


I'm sorry. I'm ignorant and stupid. Please repost it.
 
2008-12-13 09:38:52 PM  
Please review these stasstics.
www.theage.com.au
 
2008-12-13 09:41:24 PM  
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07235r.pdf

Seems that the GAO does them all the time. Ask them for one?
 
2008-12-13 09:42:06 PM  
Hey.. girls in matching underwear!

RED matching underwear!

Hey, to heck with all this money stuff, I'm gonna look at girls butts.
 
2008-12-13 09:46:47 PM  
less talk about $. more ass pics.
 
2008-12-13 09:49:40 PM  
Two trillion in loans to banks, 700 billion to the TARP fund, thats a 27 with 11 zeros behind it. Divide that by the approximate 350 million residents, and we each owe 7714 dollars and change (assuming every man woman and child are working, but its actually about 1 person working for every 5 that are not, being either retired, too young to work or unemployed, so multiply by 6...) and you owe 46,285 just because we can't let the banks fail... If the gubmint gave me 46 grand, I could pay down signifigantly my debts which would help the banks, and give me more discretionary funds to spend every month since I wasn't servicing debt and money would flow into the lower ends of the business sector (service and retail) therby supporting and creating new jobs. Put the money in at the top, straight to the banks, and they hold on to it just in case things get worse. Their plan to get money flowing again hasn't worked. Its time to go with my plan.

ME ftw!
 
2008-12-13 09:55:47 PM  
img389.imageshack.us
/doing my part to increase this threads assets
 
2008-12-13 09:56:28 PM  
I can't even get through the first page of comments. It's not Bush. Bush is an idiot. A front man. An EMPLOYEE. He does what he's told.

What we are seeing is the crimes of the PRIVATELY OWNED FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM. They have been stealing from the american people since it was created in 1913 by legislation written by the bankers. They are doing what central banks do, they inflate for the benefit of their owners and their friends.

You want someone to pin this on, start with the rockefellers (citibank) and the morgans (chase) and go from there. These are the people among others who game the system for their own benefit and have been doing it for a very long time.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson 1816

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the government since the days of Andrew Jackson." President Franklin Roosevelt Nov. 21, 1933

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men... Who Necessarily, by very reason of their own limitations chill and check and destroy genuine economic freedom.

We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." President Woodrow Wilson 1916

"Allow me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who writes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild 1828
 
2008-12-13 09:58:11 PM  

bnoogie: Two trillion in loans to banks, 700 billion to the TARP fund, thats a 27 with 11 zeros behind it. Divide that by the approximate 350 million residents, and we each owe 7714 dollars and change (assuming every man woman and child are working, but its actually about 1 person working for every 5 that are not, being either retired, too young to work or unemployed, so multiply by 6...) and you owe 46,285 just because we can't let the banks fail... If the gubmint gave me 46 grand, I could pay down signifigantly my debts which would help the banks, and give me more discretionary funds to spend every month since I wasn't servicing debt and money would flow into the lower ends of the business sector (service and retail) therby supporting and creating new jobs. Put the money in at the top, straight to the banks, and they hold on to it just in case things get worse. Their plan to get money flowing again hasn't worked. Its time to go with my plan.

ME ftw!


Hmm. Working population is about 45% of population. All this money is loans or equity, not gifts. You would need to only count what will be defaulted, which is difficult to estimate right now. And the reason these loans are made is to prevent defaults in the first place. In any case, your numbers are completely wrong.
 
2008-12-13 10:02:29 PM  

lajimi: HEY, FED!

1. Just who do you think you are working for?
2. Just where do you think the money you hand out comes from?
3. Just who do you think you are to refuse to tell YOUR EMPLOYERS what you are doing?

/Try that in the private sector


THIS IS THE PRIVATE SECTOR YOU IDIOT

seriously americans
you farking douchetards
who do you think is getting this money?
 
2008-12-13 10:03:01 PM  
The Federal Reserve refuses to disclose recipients of $2,000,000,000,000.00 in emergency loans

Easy - just look for the guy driving a solid gold space shuttle...
 
2008-12-13 10:05:33 PM  
There should be two options on a FOIA request:

[ ] Your documents are attached
[ ] Please deal with my superior; I am going to prison for not less than two years

I see no need for the existence of a third option.
 
2008-12-13 10:07:09 PM  
"The Fed DOES GET AUDITED, by the GAO who reports to congress and to you:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d0944.pdf"

So your asking me to believe one site that says I should trust the government and its agencies?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH A
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

They can cite all the 'contracted accountants' they want.
But just take a look at Enron and Arthur Anderson, or how
about Moody's and S. & P. ratings on toxic
cdos! Good luck with that. I'll side with wanting to know where my tax dollars are going. And, you can insinuate UFO conspiracy, tinfoil whack job all you want. But when I pay 1/3 of my labor/income, and have congress approve bailouts, that were unanimously voiced against, which is then given to incompetent agencies. I damn well better get a receipt!!!!

Yes, I've worked for the government. It's a giant back scratching circle jerk pissing contest. So you'll have to excuse my laughter when the only source of your trust, is one article expounding the virtues of said circle jerk. There is a reason congress and the president have single digit approval ratings.
No need to respond, I tuned you out after you offered GDP as if that isn't a cooked statistic...
 
2008-12-13 10:09:53 PM  

veryequiped: Good to see you finally have the balls to speak your mind, had you actually had any previous, you could have stood up for your country.


//If you haven't got anything intelligent to contribute, how bout you shut up.


I'll assume you mean that I should have voted for Ron Paul. Well, sorry, but I did. However, I also understand the economics behind it and it is incredibly obvious that you don't. When you come in here and say that we should just print trillions of dollars and give them out to the population, you make all Ron Paul supporters look like idiots. You also prove that you have no idea how Austrian economics works. You are part of the problem. Please stop.
 
2008-12-13 10:10:38 PM  

hyperspacemonkey: THIS IS THE PRIVATE SECTOR YOU IDIOT


yeah.. the profits are in the private sector.

the losses.. not so much.

The private sector, in case you're interested, ends at your front lawn. Who the hell do you think makes up the public sector. A pack of baloney farmers in DC and some bureaucrats? I b'leev I'll start working on enhancing the economy in my private sector cause the second I get a few bucks in my pocket, it seems the public sector want a piece of it.

We're drowning in institutionalised misnomer.
 
2008-12-13 10:11:33 PM  
Amazed the thread hasn't been Godwinned yet.

You know who else didn't like international bankers?

moviesmedia.ign.com

Oops.
 
2008-12-13 10:13:01 PM  

Nobodyn0se: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07235r.pdf

Seems that the GAO does them all the time. Ask them for one?


So what you're saying is that you don't have an audit of the fed that is available to the public? I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of people that would LOVE to see such an audit.

The GAO report is great. As a matter of fact, David Walker is awesome. He also resigned out of disgust and tried to take his message to the people. But you keep spouting your ignorance. Your obedience may be rewarded.
 
2008-12-13 10:13:12 PM  

GoodasGold: Amazed the thread hasn't been Godwinned yet.

You know who else didn't like international bankers?

Oops.


Bruno Ganz? I doubt that, seeing where he is from.
 
2008-12-13 10:15:26 PM  

olddinosaur: You stupid ignorant farking fools!

Since when do you think bankers value economic stability? Since a pig values dieting? Bankers love wild market fluctuations, it's what makes them rich.

HERE COMES THE MATH:(and it's not thast complicated)

A banknote is a receipt for real money on deposit, hence the term: "Hard Cash." Fewer than 1 in 1000 people know what that word actually means.

So long as the banker had the public's trust, his receipts were traded like the money itself, and everyone was happy---most of all the banker.

Bankers learned early, they could write up receipts for many times the money they actually had to cover, and as long as they did not get too greedy, everything was fine. Historically, you can issue 25 banknotes for every one unit of money on hand--but that's not cast in stone!

If the banker issues too many banknotes and doesn't have real money to cover, he's in serious trouble. There would be a run on the bank, and he might get lynched.

Smart bankers see a way around this: Let's say I borrow 1,000 units of money, and print out 25,000 units of banknotes, which I lend out at 8% interest. I "earn" a profit of 2,000 units of money, off of money which was never mine to begin with---and throw back 30 units to the lender; I keep the other 1,970 as profit.

But people are getting suspicious, the public is losing faith. I don't want a run on my bank, so I collect 2,000 units on the interest, 2,500 more against the principal---and burn them.

You see what I did there? I have 22,500 units of money on the books to collect--- but there's only 20,500 units in circulation to pay. That means somebody is going to lose, and it sure as hell won't be me! Next year I will do it again, so there are only 16,200 units available--but someone still owes me 20,000 units of money.

They won't be able to pay, I will foreclose---and I will be left holding not only all the money--but all the property as well. I used thousands because that is an easy number to understand, but add zeroes until you get billions and trillions, and it all works the same.

If you hire bankers to run your economy, it is like hiring sharks to run a fish farm. The process is so simple, even "zipsplat" could understand it.

\\ if he would.


You make more sence than anything I have read yet.
 
2008-12-13 10:16:39 PM  

Nobodyn0se: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07235r.pdf

Seems that the GAO does them all the time. Ask them for one?


David Walker (former Comptroller General of the GAO) on 60 minutes trying to warn you (new window)
 
2008-12-13 10:17:11 PM  

IdeasGuy: Bruno Ganz? I doubt that, seeing where he is from.


Swiss? Swiss Bankers? Check.
 
2008-12-13 10:19:59 PM  
Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZM58dulPE&eurl=http://www.endthe fed.us/
 
2008-12-13 10:21:42 PM  
Once more, it seems a lot of people are confusing here the government spending real resources and going into debt (which will have to be reimbursed with taxes or defaulted) with the Federal Reserve making loans by printing money (and thus not spending real resources).

Folks, money is a veil. These are just little pieces of paper. What counts are the houses, the factories, etc. The Fed does not own that. You do.
 
2008-12-13 10:22:08 PM  
Bloody hell people, of course they're corrupt, they are your politicians and I don't know any other country that salutes corruption by the dollar as much as the US

Long live the almightly farking US dollar

sick up
sick up
sick up
 
2008-12-13 10:22:18 PM  

YixilTesiphon: End the fed.


End the Fed.
 
2008-12-13 10:23:51 PM  
"Nobodyn0se: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07235r.pdf

Seems that the GAO does them all the time. Ask them for one?"

FAIL That report didn't even mention the federal reserve!
He asked for a report which audits the feds....
 
2008-12-13 10:24:09 PM  

pascoffee: You make more sence than anything I have read yet.


That's because actual commerce, on any level, with any instrument, is pissabed easy. Find the motivation, find or create the mechanisms that will effect the exchange and optimise your value in the deal.

The only thing that changes is the scale and the points of access.
 
2008-12-13 10:24:17 PM  

IdeasGuy: Once more, it seems a lot of people are confusing here the government spending real resources and going into debt (which will have to be reimbursed with taxes or defaulted) with the Federal Reserve making loans by printing money (and thus not spending real resources).

Folks, money is a veil. These are just little pieces of paper. What counts are the houses, the factories, etc. The Fed does not own that. You do.


Do you deny such a thing as an "inflation tax?"
 
2008-12-13 10:26:53 PM  

sarcastrophe: IdeasGuy: Once more, it seems a lot of people are confusing here the government spending real resources and going into debt (which will have to be reimbursed with taxes or defaulted) with the Federal Reserve making loans by printing money (and thus not spending real resources).

Folks, money is a veil. These are just little pieces of paper. What counts are the houses, the factories, etc. The Fed does not own that. You do.

Do you deny such a thing as an "inflation tax?"


No. But there is currently no sign of inflation or anticipated inflation. Because this is a loan and thus the increase in the money supply is only temporary. There is no expectation for it to last.
 
2008-12-13 10:27:05 PM  

bunner: hyperspacemonkey: THIS IS THE PRIVATE SECTOR YOU IDIOT

yeah.. the profits are in the private sector.

the losses.. not so much.


Yeah the profits. This is the private sector's idea. It is their show. This sick idea that private companies would run things better than government is going to replace them with the people who orchestrated this whole bailout. You'll just replace Congress with bankers and other businesses directly. Americans are very close to beheading Louis 13th and crowning Richelieu.

The private sector is not YOUR front lawn I bet. You're being played if you think that Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac are the same as your front lawn, man.
 
2008-12-13 10:33:12 PM  

IdeasGuy: No. But there is currently no sign of inflation or anticipated inflation. Because this is a loan and thus the increase in the money supply is only temporary. There is no expectation for it to last.


You can't put $8.5 trillion dollars into the economy and not expect inflation. The only way you can do that is if $8.5 trillion in actual wealth was lost. If $8.5 trillion in wealth was lost, there's a bigger problem. If we lost 2/3rds of our GPD was lost this year, it is a pretty serious issue.

Furthermore, this isn't temporary. The idea is to inflate the money supply in order to keep the housing market up. The government does not want to let the housing prices fall even though they should be falling.

They're inflating our currency intentionally and you support the banks by agreeing with them. If you think the $700 billion was a big deal, you must realize that this money is a drop in the bucket in the big picture.

Please tell me you are not this blind. Please tell me you understand at least a shred of this concept.
 
2008-12-13 10:34:30 PM  

hyperspacemonkey: The private sector is not YOUR front lawn I bet.


That was alluding to the notion that the "private sector" is somehow inclusive of Joe Blow

You're being played if you think that Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac are the same as your front lawn, man.

Nope.
 
2008-12-13 10:36:18 PM  
I'm repeating something that was on the news earlier but I think it deserves it. You can argue all you want about billions here and billions there, letting this or that corporation fail, who's at fault, etc. but when it comes down to it there are families out there that are losing there homes and livelihoods. 1,000,000 foreclosures, that's the reality. CEO's, executives, who are all already wealthy beyond the wildest dreams of most americans should not be getting a bailout when ordinary people are losing the roof over their heads. 1,000,000 foreclosures, at an average home price of $206,000 comes out 206 billion dollars; that is, at most, what it would take to keep hard working people off the street. It's a freaking drop in the bucket. I'm not saying people should be rewarded for stupidity or poor financial planning but they shouldn't be out in the street. Do something about them, then look at what needs to be done with the broader economy. I'm tired of this trickle down crap that only ends up enriching the wealthiest. We're loaning out 2 Trillion when there are people out there losing their homes? you have to be kidding me.
 
2008-12-13 10:40:14 PM  

hyperspacemonkey: This sick idea that private companies would run things better than government


Government programs have a history of failing at running a business. Unfortunately, with the way business are being run, business also fail to run a business. More and more public companies prove to be little more than cash cows for the folks running them into the ground. CEOs with golden parachutes don't care about the long term success of their companies much more than government workers who get the same amount of money whether they win or lose.

Bit of a shiatty situation. And the stock market is strongly to blame with the failure of these companies too imo. If you start your own business and are the owner, and the business fails, you go broke. The economic incentive is strong there. If you start your own business and make it a quick success and sell tiny shares of it to thousands of people after incorporating it to protect your wealth and remaining the highest paid person in the business, you are best served by siphoning as much money as possible from the company and going someplace else.

That's the logic as I see it. Now of course companies aren't run just by CEOs and there is a shiat ton of middle and lower level employees who work hard to see the company they've hitched their stars to succeed. There is no reason why a government couldn't run a company decently by keeping the good aspects of a public company and throwing out the bad, is there?
 
2008-12-13 10:45:48 PM  

Smackledorfer: Government programs have a history of failing at running a business. Unfortunately, with the way business are being run, business also fail to run a business. More and more public companies prove to be little more than cash cows for the folks running them into the ground. CEOs with golden parachutes don't care about the long term success of their companies much more than government workers who get the same amount of money whether they win or lose.


Why should the CEO care? The government will bail them out?

Smackledorfer: Bit of a shiatty situation. And the stock market is strongly to blame with the failure of these companies too imo. If you start your own business and are the owner, and the business fails, you go broke. The economic incentive is strong there. If you start your own business and make it a quick success and sell tiny shares of it to thousands of people after incorporating it to protect your wealth and remaining the highest paid person in the business, you are best served by siphoning as much money as possible from the company and going someplace else.


The stock market is related to the economy indirectly. The stock market can crash and the population could be fine, HOWEVER, we force our population to invest. Therefore, the larger economy hurts the smallest members. Also, the smallest members are hurt the most.

Smackledorfer: That's the logic as I see it. Now of course companies aren't run just by CEOs and there is a shiat ton of middle and lower level employees who work hard to see the company they've hitched their stars to succeed. There is no reason why a government couldn't run a company decently by keeping the good aspects of a public company and throwing out the bad, is there?


The government doesn't even have the authority to do this in the first place. Even if they did, the idea that they could make it more efficient is ridiculous.
 
2008-12-13 10:48:10 PM  
Money and economies and governance are all designed for one reason and one reason only. To enhance the quality of life and organise a lawful society that offers a better one.

Period.

It all ends in a granite farm and the economic engine of any culture, regardless of their wealth, lack thereof or fiscal base is in place to serve the society that allows it.

That being said, as long as there have been such lofty notions taken from pen and paper to steel and stone, there have been highbinding sonsabi*tches who manipulate the architecture of that given system to ensure that they and theirs arrive at the granite farm on a softer pillow and in a more ornate casket. Either with pens or guns or simple exchanges in private rooms, wealth is amassed in small areas by those with access to the laws and the people who make them, or the ability to circumvent those laws with impunity. We simply opted for 40" TeeVees, instant hot food, shiny cars and other things that we take for granted but became quite unsustainable as early as the mid sixties - in exchange for letting private banks manipulate our treasury and endless streams of unsecured credit that our grandchildren are going to get the bill for. That's not not Alcoa haberdashery, that's history. the notion that we are somehow immune to such shenanigans, here in America, is hubris unequaled since Rome.
 
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