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(Google)   Photo gallery of the F-18 crash in San Diego, taken by a guy working from home down the street   (picasaweb.google.com) divider line 207
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33208 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2008 at 8:29 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-12-09 11:00:35 PM
studebaker hoch: The problem with airplanes and their loads of fuel is that they're just bombs with wings when they crash.

The pictures are always the same. If you were in the impact zone, you probably died.


The cockpit of most fighter jets sits on the intake of the jet engines, or in between.

So it is akin to riding a missile. Honestly, thats all a fighter jet is, a jet engine with a seat on it and attachments for explosives.
 
2008-12-09 11:01:04 PM
wantyou2wantme: "Please pray for him (the pilot) not to suffer from this accident," a distraught Dong Yun Yoon told reporters gathered near the site of Monday's crash of an F/A-18D jet in San Diego's University City community.

"He is one of our treasures for the country," Yoon said in accented English punctuated by long pauses while he tried to maintain his composure.


Someone ought to tell him he's not in North Korea anymore.

/ducks
 
2008-12-09 11:03:32 PM
studebaker hoch: onyxia

Its a proven fact that stalling, powerless planes can be glided by a courageous pilot repeating "I think I can" as he crashes.

He just needed to pull up!

No matter how slow you're going, no matter how quiet it's gotten outside, no matter how deeply stalled your wing is or how fast you're falling out of the clear blue sky, pulling up will usually get you back up to your assigned flight level and on your way to the nearest airport.

That's why they have that little voice that says PULL UP! PULL UP!.

/If only the pilot had remembered that simple trick.


That may have worked in World War I, but in a plane with hydraulically-operated flight controls, once you lose all of your engines, the stick is effectively disconnected from the control surfaces. There's a pressurized hydraulic reservoir that gives you few seconds of control authority after a dual-engine failure but no more.

"Stalled" means just that - the wings and control surfaces are no longer generating *any* lift. Even if the pilot still has control authority at that point, pulling back on the stick is just going to aggravate the stall.
 
2008-12-09 11:05:32 PM
studebaker hoch: That's why they have that little voice that says PULL UP! PULL UP!.

1. Push the stick forward, houses get bigger.
2. Pull the stick back, houses get smaller.
3. Pull the stick back long enough, houses get bigger again.

WARNING: If the engines are not running, disregard steps 1-3. Houses WILL get bigger no matter what you do.
 
2008-12-09 11:08:52 PM
lh4.ggpht.com
Is that the pilot? I don't think I'd have the balls to walk up on my own crash scene.
 
2008-12-09 11:10:29 PM
TyrantII: Farkomatic: I saw what's left of the airplane, but I can't see the USS Arizona

It was the USS Forrestal moron. If you're going to make a bad political joke, get it right.


Pearl Harbor, numbnuts.
 
2008-12-09 11:15:03 PM
TyrantII: I still think if the marine stayed in the plane he could of got it over the houses into the ravine.

Did you want him to stick his arms out the cockpit and flap? Or maybe poke his legs through the bottom like Fred Flintstone?
 
2008-12-09 11:15:51 PM
Isn't there a RAT on the F/A-18?
 
2008-12-09 11:20:22 PM
meunier: Isn't there a RAT on the F/A-18?

Apparently not. We were discussing this at work today. The F-16 has an H70 powered emergency power unit(EPU). Gives a few mins of elec power. Apparently, the F-18 has nothing similar. Not needed, because dual engine failure is very, very rare.

/happy to be corrected by any naval maint types
 
2008-12-09 11:21:02 PM
studebaker hoch: No matter how slow you're going, no matter how quiet it's gotten outside, no matter how deeply stalled your wing is or how fast you're falling out of the clear blue sky, pulling up will usually get you back up to your assigned flight level and on your way to the nearest airport.

That's why they have that little voice that says PULL UP! PULL UP!.


Are you familiar with "Fly by wire" systems? The yoke is connected to a computer, which then drives the hydraulic systems on the control surfaces. So, if you don't have hydraulic power because the engines failed, (not sure if the F/A-18 has redundant battery power on hydraulic systems), you're pissing up the proverbial wet rope. Also, if the engines are not running, there is no thrust. A stalled wing produces very little lift. Increasing the angle of attack makes the plane fall faster without more thrust.
 
2008-12-09 11:24:34 PM
the_be_sharps: Are you familiar with "Fly by wire" systems?

Are you familiar with a guy named Sarcasmo?
 
2008-12-09 11:25:29 PM
You people that think the pilot was in error need to take a look at the Google map. If that still doesn't change your mind when you couple it with the fact he bailed at a few hundred feet (below the appropriate altitude) and had no control over the stalled flying-sideways plane, then you are either stupid or trolling.
 
2008-12-09 11:26:47 PM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: 3. Pull the stick back long enough, houses get bigger again.

I miss my glory days of doing power-on stalls in a cessna putt putt.

Its the closest thing to glory you'll ever feel in that little trainer

/not much
//but something
 
2008-12-09 11:27:31 PM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: Are you familiar with a guy named Sarcasmo?

No, but I saw a movie called "Orgazmo"
 
2008-12-09 11:28:13 PM
Jean-Puc_Licard: 2 babies, wife and grandma died.

If the babies died first, would it still be a grandma?
 
2008-12-09 11:29:57 PM
steamingpile: I have had both fighter jets fly over and huge passenger jets flyover, which one do you think is louder?

I have worked, lived, gone to school in University City for close to 10 years. I have seen all matter of craft take off from there. ALL. I mean it : ALL. They run commercial-style craft from there from time to time. Extraordinary rendition craft too... all kinds.

I don't know where you live or what your experience is, but modern high-bypass turbofans are virtually silent once they are over 5000 feet. The runway at Miramar is so loooong that most takeoffs would be above 5k by the time they left airport property. Plus, the municipality can regulate this takeoff attitude, allowable noise levels, all kinds of things, just like they are regulated at Lindbergh.

Lack of a proper international airport is strangling our economy. We just need a local leader to take the reins and say enough is enough, MCAS Miramar needs to go.
 
2008-12-09 11:38:07 PM
If you look really close you can see a UFO watching the damage in one of the pics.
 
2008-12-09 11:45:16 PM
wantyou2wantme: iancole: My heart breaks for the man that lost his wife, mother, and daughters. I would not have the strength to go on.

CNN has an interview with him on their main page...

"Please pray for him (the pilot) not to suffer from this accident," a distraught Dong Yun Yoon told reporters gathered near the site of Monday's crash of an F/A-18D jet in San Diego's University City community.

"He is one of our treasures for the country," Yoon said in accented English punctuated by long pauses while he tried to maintain his composure.

"I don't blame him. I don't have any hard feelings. I know he did everything he could," said Yoon, flanked by members of San Diego's Korean community, relatives and members from the family's church.

..."I know there are many people who have experienced more terrible things," Yoon said. "But, please, tell me how to do it. I don't know what to do."


So very sad...


Ok that, then.....

NittLion78: I bet the rapist in that Winnebago is counting his blessings.

Is just WRONG!!!!!

/im saying I was upset for the man who lost his family then you made an off color joke
//but im really mad cause I laughed at it
///window seat
////oh and times like these i really would like to believe there is a heaven
 
2008-12-09 11:46:46 PM
dj42: You people that think the pilot was in error need to take a look at the Google map. If that still doesn't change your mind when you couple it with the fact he bailed at a few hundred feet (below the appropriate altitude) and had no control over the stalled flying-sideways plane, then you are either stupid or trolling.

Its fark, most of them are just stupid
 
2008-12-09 11:50:04 PM
Jean-Puc_Licard: I can take your point but do you have to be such a pissy biatch about it?

For the record, I only become a pissy biatch when the pathetically misinformed begin to espouse views with no basis in reality.


darisd: Lack of a proper international airport is strangling our economy. We just need a local leader to take the reins and say enough is enough, MCAS Miramar needs to go.

While I would agree that our ongoing (30+ year)airport problem in San Diego could only be truly resolved by the acquisition of Miramar, it's going to take a lot more than a local leader to take the reins. Look at the history of El Toro as an example.
 
2008-12-09 11:57:48 PM
Old_Chief_Scott: Jean-Puc_Licard: I can take your point but do you have to be such a pissy biatch about it?

For the record, I only become a pissy biatch when the pathetically misinformed begin to espouse views with no basis in reality.


darisd: Lack of a proper international airport is strangling our economy. We just need a local leader to take the reins and say enough is enough, MCAS Miramar needs to go.

While I would agree that our ongoing (30+ year)airport problem in San Diego could only be truly resolved by the acquisition of Miramar, it's going to take a lot more than a local leader to take the reins. Look at the history of El Toro as an example.


They should have expanded Brown field for the cargo and huge jet capacity while they still had the chance.

But oooops! Gotta take payola for shiat housing developments in Otay "Lakes"!

Of course, now that lots and lots of those houses are in forclosure, maybe this is SANDAG's opportunity!
 
2008-12-10 12:06:44 AM
studebaker hoch: Huskadoodle

Look mommy, there's an air-o-plane up in the........ roof.


The Roof! The Roof! The Roof is on..........farking gone.

/sorry.
//knows that guy just missed that last inch.
///there is no "glide" during a complete flameout.
 
2008-12-10 12:11:18 AM
darisd:

Lack of a proper international airport is strangling our economy. We just need a local leader to take the reins and say enough is enough, MCAS Miramar needs to go.


Riiiiiight. Because some "mayor" has the power to go up against the Department of Defense, and the FAA should that scenario happen. Now you can have 757s in their neighborhoods instead of F/A-18s. Fine choice there.

Miramar was there first. And what if it was a civilian aircraft that crashed with the same result? Do you want all local airports shuttered too?
 
2008-12-10 12:20:31 AM
Did anyone else notice it took over 10 minutes for the fire department to get their ass over there after a huge fireball erupted from a plane crash? Probably got calls with 15 seconds of it. Is this one of those neighborhoods that sprawled out and fully of twisty roads that the fire department is miles away or something?

I've lived in a couple of cities, and couple different suburbs, and seen the fire department come out to all sorts of different neighborhoods at different times, and they've always been there in less than 2 minutes.

What gives?
 
2008-12-10 12:26:13 AM
mainstreetmark: I'm not too sure about this one. As a former employee of ol Mac, it's sad to see one of these birds go down, however, I don't think that pilot did the right thing by bailing out, and letting the plane just land where it felt like it.. somewhere over suberbia.

Being in the military, isn't it kinda his job to be all protecty of the citizens? Shouldn't he have tried to glide it down the street, or something, like in that terrible movie where that hot chic landed the space shuttle in that spot where the shiny terminator in the truck was chasing the fleshy terminator on the motorcycle with that one kid who nearly became a racist, until he learned a valuable lesson from his brother, who eventually became the Incredible Hulk?


Fighter jets glide like a rock without power.

/probably already been said
 
2008-12-10 12:46:07 AM
darisd:
Lack of a proper international airport is strangling our economy. We just need a local leader to take the reins and say enough is enough, MCAS Miramar needs to go.


like someone running for school council promising to improve school lunches by hiring a new lunch-lady, that's a revolving campaign promise that politicians in san diego make. moving our commercial facilities out of lindbergh to miramar. it's been going on for at least 40 years.
it would take it out of the port authority's hands and they'd be assed out all sorts of dollars. nobody in that neighborhood wants to deal with the traffic, noise and dangers. the federal government won't give up that land.
even if all of that fell into line nobody wants to pony up the money and wait decades to turn a profit.

odd thing though...back in the late 40s or early 50s the navy considered limiting their airfields to north island and reem field (south of imperial beach). the offered to cede miramar to the city of san diego, but were given the cold shoulder.
after giving it a go a few more times the navy decided to scale back and eventually decommission reem field and hang onto miramar.
 
2008-12-10 12:51:38 AM
wantyou2wantme: iancole: My heart breaks for the man that lost his wife, mother, and daughters. I would not have the strength to go on.

CNN has an interview with him on their main page...

"Please pray for him (the pilot) not to suffer from this accident," a distraught Dong Yun Yoon told reporters gathered near the site of Monday's crash of an F/A-18D jet in San Diego's University City community.

"He is one of our treasures for the country," Yoon said in accented English punctuated by long pauses while he tried to maintain his composure.

"I don't blame him. I don't have any hard feelings. I know he did everything he could," said Yoon, flanked by members of San Diego's Korean community, relatives and members from the family's church.

..."I know there are many people who have experienced more terrible things," Yoon said. "But, please, tell me how to do it. I don't know what to do."


So very sad...


This.

Top notch guy.

I too, feel awful for the pilot (who seems to have done everything he could) and now has to live with the fact that his airplane killed 4 people.

I feel bad for the dad/husband too. I don't know how he's going to come to terms with this. I know I couldn't.
 
2008-12-10 01:16:09 AM
The Daily Mail has an article, which includes a picture of the pilot.
 
2008-12-10 01:17:59 AM
so i guess the lessons to be learned here are not to buy houses that are close to the safe zones!

if you are going to live in a flight path, live in the middle of the houses.

the pilot will try to avoid the sub division but may end up hitting a house on the edge...
 
2008-12-10 01:31:52 AM
Bonzo_1116: He was one street away from getting the jet into the canyon behind those houses. 100-150 more feet, and he would have made it.

I wonder, would ejecting make enough of a difference in how fast it went down, under these circumstances?

All I can imagine is that he thought it was gonna ditch in the canyon.
 
2008-12-10 01:57:19 AM
It's an accident. Why are people second-guessing the actions of very highly trained pilot who probably had seconds, at most, to decide what to do? Damn.
 
2008-12-10 02:15:36 AM
TyrantII: Google Maps of the area (new window)

I still think if the marine stayed in the plane he could of got it over the houses into the ravine. He would be dead, but he would have saved lives.

Anyone know the code on ditching aircraft in populated civilian areas?


Anyone know how well an F/A-18 works with 2 engines down? Because clearly you don't.

Simple answer: You can't steer if the stick won't affect anything.
 
2008-12-10 02:36:24 AM
Link (new window) Google maps streetview of the crash site. The pilot had only 200 ft further to get past the house the motorhome was parked in front of, and there was a gulch and empty fields.
 
2008-12-10 03:07:16 AM
I don't think I saw a single reference to The Great Santini in this thread. I figured there'd be one in the top ten, but I'm wrong, and so disappointed.
 
2008-12-10 03:08:19 AM
darisd: Lack of a proper international airport is strangling our economy. We just need a local leader to take the reins and say enough is enough, MCAS Miramar needs to go.

Ok find another suitable site and fund the construction. Otherwise, realize that it has been there longer than womens right to vote. Just because its a military airport and you want one does not mean you can have it. no you can't have a miramar, not yours.
 
2008-12-10 04:11:34 AM
strange... but i always thought a 'plane crash' scene would be completely free of debris... like the PentaLawn

www.davesweb.cnchost.com

/hotlinked like a piece of smoking thermite
 
2008-12-10 08:53:18 AM
MBarry:

From what I read:

The pilot was on a training mission about the Lincoln, when the first engine failed after takeoff. ATC directed him to proceed to Miramar since there is considerable more runway for a jet to land in an emergency. On his way the second engine flamed out, and controls failed. Some eyewitness that the plane was clipping trees before he punched out, and he landed only a couple of blocks away from the site.

Yeah, I checked it out closer on Google Maps (and posted as such a few posts later from my original post). I probably posted to quick before I got all the facts, which is sorta the Fark/Internet way, but now that i do, I see that he did manage to make it past all but the very last house, and those things don't glide so well on zero engines.
 
2008-12-10 09:55:20 AM
mainstreetmark: I'm not too sure about this one. As a former employee of ol Mac, it's sad to see one of these birds go down, however, I don't think that pilot did the right thing by bailing out, and letting the plane just land where it felt like it.. somewhere over suberbia.

Being in the military, isn't it kinda his job to be all protecty of the citizens? Shouldn't he have tried to glide it down the street, or something, like in that terrible movie where that hot chic landed the space shuttle in that spot where the shiny terminator in the truck was chasing the fleshy terminator on the motorcycle with that one kid who nearly became a racist, until he learned a valuable lesson from his brother, who eventually became the Incredible Hulk?


According to witnesses he waited until about 100 to 200 feet before he punched out. At 80 to 100 knots that is less than a second or two before he hit the ground. Took balls to ride it down that long the idea of being stewed alived trapped in your seat in a broth of JP5 and your own blood is not very appealing.
 
2008-12-10 10:01:47 AM
Love this guys other pics
i195.photobucket.com

http://picasaweb.google.com/RonBelangerPics/Halloween2008#
 
2008-12-10 10:16:26 AM
Stryyder:
According to witnesses he waited until about 100 to 200 feet before he punched out. At 80 to 100 knots that is less than a second or two before he hit the ground. Took balls to ride it down that long the idea of being stewed alived trapped in your seat in a broth of JP5 and your own blood is not very appealing.


So basically, what you're saying is that the pilot would not have died instantly. Also, if the pilot would not have died instantly, the family would have 'survived' longer before finally dying in the same broth plus their own, right? Or am I wrong?


How long does it take to take in a case like this? What's the best way to ensure dying instantly?
 
2008-12-10 10:27:15 AM
ExperianScaresCthulhu: Stryyder:
According to witnesses he waited until about 100 to 200 feet before he punched out. At 80 to 100 knots that is less than a second or two before he hit the ground. Took balls to ride it down that long the idea of being stewed alived trapped in your seat in a broth of JP5 and your own blood is not very appealing.

So basically, what you're saying is that the pilot would not have died instantly. Also, if the pilot would not have died instantly, the family would have 'survived' longer before finally dying in the same broth plus their own, right? Or am I wrong?


How long does it take to take in a case like this? What's the best way to ensure dying instantly?


ExperianScaresCthulhu: Stryyder:
According to witnesses he waited until about 100 to 200 feet before he punched out. At 80 to 100 knots that is less than a second or two before he hit the ground. Took balls to ride it down that long the idea of being stewed alived trapped in your seat in a broth of JP5 and your own blood is not very appealing.

So basically, what you're saying is that the pilot would not have died instantly. Also, if the pilot would not have died instantly, the family would have 'survived' longer before finally dying in the same broth plus their own, right? Or am I wrong?


How long does it take to take in a case like this? What's the best way to ensure dying instantly?


There's not a lot you can learn in terms of what happened, why it happened, and what exactly did the pilot do to try to recover if the pilot is dead. At the end of the day, his survival could save more lives than were lost that day.
 
2008-12-10 10:29:53 AM
ExperianScaresCthulhu: Stryyder:
According to witnesses he waited until about 100 to 200 feet before he punched out. At 80 to 100 knots that is less than a second or two before he hit the ground. Took balls to ride it down that long the idea of being stewed alived trapped in your seat in a broth of JP5 and your own blood is not very appealing.

So basically, what you're saying is that the pilot would not have died instantly. Also, if the pilot would not have died instantly, the family would have 'survived' longer before finally dying in the same broth plus their own, right? Or am I wrong?


How long does it take to take in a case like this? What's the best way to ensure dying instantly?


Not really the family could either die from impact or the house collapsing or thenfire. The pilot being protected from impact is more likely to be stewed. While we all would think that we would have pulled a great Santini and road her down.

Based on the eye witness accounts the pilot staying in the plane wouldn't have made a difference. The mistake that was made was vectoring the plane to Miramar instaed of landing on the carrier after the first engive flamed out. There is no way to get from the ocean to Miramar without flying over a residential area

He almost made it he was 1.5 miles from the tip of the runway where he crashed Link (new window)

They should have landed on the carrier I wouldn't have risked the flight time over to miramar on one engine. The failure could have been fuel related not mechanical no way to know until the bird is down so I would have attempted landing as quickly as possible after the first flame out.... Hard to make guesses now until we know more maybe he was closer to miramar when he lost the first engine.
 
2008-12-10 10:40:04 AM
Chalk this up to we are human, make mistakes and bad s**t happens.

Whar strikes me is the morbidity of the press, "it is interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry." And duly note they did get the widow(er), on the set.
 
2008-12-10 10:50:43 AM
I had to


www.moviemaker.com


Disapproves....
 
2008-12-10 10:52:35 AM
Farkomatic: TyrantII: Farkomatic: I saw what's left of the airplane, but I can't see the USS Arizona

It was the USS Forrestal moron. If you're going to make a bad political joke, get it right.

Pearl Harbor, numbnuts.


My B, Thought you were making a incorrect McCain (R-AZ) joke.

Now I see where you were going.
 
2008-12-10 11:05:05 AM
It's been pre-disastered!
 
2008-12-10 11:19:39 AM
eynonmcwanker: anyone know what's gonna happen to the pilot?

He will never be over Macho Grande.....
 
2008-12-10 11:26:18 AM
You would not redirect a plane with one engine out to land on a carrier when there are other options available.

Losing two engines is extremely rare, and they practice single engine landings (or at least the approach) all the time.

/11 years in the USAF
//on the C-5
///landed on 3 engines more times than you would think
 
2008-12-10 11:54:56 AM
Wow. I loved bootmec's Halloween 08 pics. They were faaaaaaabulous....
 
2008-12-10 11:55:30 AM
itsnotthenetwork: eynonmcwanker: anyone know what's gonna happen to the pilot?

He will never be over Macho Grande.....


...unless him and McCain have the same daddy.
 
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