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(Some Future of Detroit)   That plug-in hybrid Chevy Volt the GM CEO drove to Capitol Hill? Spent most of the trip from Detroit on a flatbed   (usnews.rankingsandreviews.com ) divider line
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32379 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2008 at 4:12 PM (8 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-12-04 06:31:56 PM  
You Farkers hear the names of the new cars for 2009?

They are going to be called the Ford Freeloader, the Chevy Panhandler, the Pontiac Parasite, the Mercury Moocher, and the Chrysler Welfare Wagon.

For an advertising slogan they are going to say: "You already paid for it--you might as well buy it!"
 
2008-12-04 06:37:46 PM  

mrshowrules: cryinoutloud: I want these guys to go bankrupt SO BAD. But you know they won't--they'll just going back and begging until they get what they want.

And they'll still suck. American car companies seem incapable of learning from their mistakes.

At least let one of the companies go bankcrupt. Weed out the worst of the 3. Why bail out the poorest company. Give money to the richest (or least in debt) company.

When they are down to two companies, the government should match private sector investments in the companies. If a person/company sees a company as viable and wants to invest 500 Million, the US government should match that investment. I'm not sure how the mechanics would work but if no private investors are interested, the government should not be sinking any money into it.


I say prop up the best and the worst. Leave GM out in the cold. Chrysler's a lot better at handling the funds than GM.
 
2008-12-04 06:39:53 PM  

JimBob1015: Winktologist:

This is how trains work. Fail.

Really? Trains have electric motors that are run off batteries charged by portable diesel generators?

I don't think so.



ooooh, fail.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/diesel-locomotive.htm
 
2008-12-04 06:41:43 PM  
No, my Boobies on the topic specifically responds to a comment about the Jeep Grand Cherokee. But anyways, I see that you weren't the original poster that I responded to so I see where the confusion came from.
 
2008-12-04 06:44:45 PM  
meat0918: And Chrysler, "Like a rock, it doesn't drive anywhere."

//The last one is funny to me dammit


F A I L

That's Chevy trucks, dude.
 
2008-12-04 06:45:57 PM  

Petey4335: maybe the could have driven up in one of these babies

or not... cuz they destroyed them.



Or not, because it's 500 miles to D.C., and those things had nowhere near that range. How many days would that take?

/Which is probably why there was no demand for them.
 
2008-12-04 06:47:23 PM  
Geotpf Quote 2008-12-04 06:26:49 PM
tidal9: Pair-o-Dice 2008-12-04 04:21:39 PM
Rug Doctor:
oldfarthenry: C'mon! You don't expect a North American car to make it 500 miles without a tow, do you?

Fix ound
Or n
Repair oad
Daily ead

Yes, this is still funny to me

Yes, funny to me as well

/Audi driver


Which is really funny to me, my sister-in-law's Audi has been nothing but a piece of shiat since day one. Her plastic visor clip broke and they wanted $135 with a 3-4 week import wait, then she stopped for lunch on the way home from the dealer and when she slammed the door shut, the driver side window dropped out...in november, in Minnesota.

There are approximately three companies that build really reliabile automobiles. They are Honda, Toyota, and Subaru (and their sub-divisions, so include Scion, Lexus, and Acura).

Everybody else is left in the break down lane. Detroit, the Germans, the other Japanese makes-everybody. There's the golden three, then there's a big ol' gap, then there's everybody else.

Interestingly enough, Ford might actually climb up to the golden three's level. They are already there with their cars (but their trucks are still dragging them down, so they don't make it overall).

But Audi and the rest of the Germans-forget it.


I have always owned American cars previously and was pretty loyal to them, but now we have a Jeep (which sees very little time on the road) and Honda and a Toyota, which the last 2 being the daily drivers for my wife and I. It unfortunately is really hard to support the American car manufacturers after having both of them. Both go forever with little maintenance, now if only the sheet metal were a little thicker, it would be bliss.
 
2008-12-04 06:54:10 PM  
They should make the Chevy Sprint again. It was the best car I've ever owned. 50 mpg with a Suzuki 3 cylinder motor in it. Bought it for $500, drove it for years, & it never broke.


i306.photobucket.com">
 
2008-12-04 06:54:54 PM  
FTFA: Wired, however, comments, "Rolling up to the hearing in a Volt clearly is a PR move, and a shameless one at that. But we're still glad to see the Volt appearing in public because the public needs to see it. Not only is the Volt the most important car any of the Big Three automakers are working on right now, it is GM's best shot at turning things around."

That's a sad commentary. GM is basing it's future on a $40k electric car with a limited range. Oh, and on top of that they stripped down the original very sporty looking concept and made it look like the Prius. That does it for me. Fark em. Go ahead and let em go bankrupt and don't waste taxpayer money delaying the inevitable. Obviously they are incapable of producing any bold new plans that might actually save the company.

//And I'm a GM fanboy, having owned several over the years.
 
2008-12-04 07:00:40 PM  
Kenny B [TotalFark] Quote 2008-12-04 06:54:10 PM
They should make the Chevy Sprint again. It was the best car I've ever owned. 50 mpg with a Suzuki 3 cylinder motor in it. Bought it for $500, drove it for years, & it never broke.


When gas prices peaked, those little bastards, being hard to find already, were demanding a high price from the few selling them. I looked into Aspires and Metros which is what that evolved into for my wife, she wouldn't have the patience to deal with a carburated engine, but those cars (Sprints and the like) were kinda fun back in the day.
 
2008-12-04 07:02:12 PM  
radiobiz: "GM is basing it's future on a $40k electric car with a limited range."

500 miles is limited? It's a plug in hybrid that gets 50mpg when using gas and goes 40 miles on a charge, further in a day than most of Americans need.
 
2008-12-04 07:04:36 PM  
Also JimBob1015 got owned pretty bad over the diesel train thing, that was fun to watch. I was gonna correct him only to scroll down and see that everyone else had already dogpiled the guy.
 
2008-12-04 07:10:00 PM  

Zamboro: Also JimBob1015 got owned pretty bad over the diesel train thing, that was fun to watch. I was gonna correct him only to scroll down and see that everyone else had already dogpiled the guy.


he was so sure that i had to actually google it to confirm what i've already known since i was 10.
 
2008-12-04 07:11:19 PM  

farkwell: actually, electric cars are perfect for 99% of your driving. even a 40 mile range takes care of most commutes.

for that 2 day vacation to wally world or the grand canyon (or detroit to d.c. money run) just run to u-haul and rent a (not available now, but could be) trailer with a diesel generator and a 20 gallon tank.


You just pretty much described the idea behind the Volt. It's an electric car with an onboard gas-powered generator. You can plug it in overnight for your daily commute, and the engine keeps the batteries charged for longer distances.

The gas engine should also be very clean and efficient, since it can just run at its peak power output all the time. Normal engines have to do everything from idling in a parking lot to running at 7000+ RPM while merging into 80 mph traffic; it's extremely difficult to keep emissions and fuel consumption in check across such a wide range.

It's a very solid theory, it will be interesting to see how well GM manages to pull it off.
 
2008-12-04 07:11:38 PM  

Sticky Hands: JimBob1015: Winktologist:

This is how trains work. Fail.

Really? Trains have electric motors that are run off batteries charged by portable diesel generators?

I don't think so.

Actually...

If you remove the batteries from the equation you get the modern diesel-electric locomotive. The most common locomotive in the USA, it uses a diesel engine to power a generator that in turn powers the motors that turn the wheels.


actually, if you look inside one of those locomotives, they're full of lead acid batteries.
 
2008-12-04 07:12:33 PM  

Snorgadsarehot: Wish I knew why there is so much animosity towards these auto companies. I've had 3 American made vehicles (2 GM, 1 Chrysler) and have never had a quality issue.


I have a 2006 Silverado. You know, the truck that's "Like a Rock". Within the first few thousand miles, I had 3 flat tires, and one blowout. Cheap ass GM had decided to put P rated tires on a truck, and sold it in an area where the majority of roads are gravel. It took me several days of fighting with the dealer to cover the tires under warranty (Manual stated that the tires are covered, contrary to what most people think). The dealer kept claiming that by driving them on gravel roads, I wasn't using the truck as it was designed by GM. Keep in mind that these are fairly well maintained, public roads that the dealer said the truck wasn't intended for. They also claimed that I was probably burning out a lot, and doing donuts in the truck. Keep in mind that this truck has a 4.3 liter V6, and a 3.23 open rear differential. The only way I'm burning out and doing donuts is if I'm on a sheet of ice. And also all four tires had large chunks of rubber coming off of them, not just the drive wheels.

Next problem is that the radio started deciding to turn itself on, while the truck is off. I came out to my truck many times to find a dead battery, and would have to jump start it, usually in below freezing weather. This was later tracked down to a bad BCM. Of course it didn't start doing this until the truck was out of warranty, and that cost me about $500 to repair.

After that, my passenger side taillight assembly went out. All of them. It turns out that the wire harness is exposed on the truck, and after around 50,000 miles, enough small rocks had been thrown up by the rear wheel and hit the wire harness to completely wear through it. That required the wire harness going to the rear taillight to have to be completely rewired, at a cost of around $100.

After that, at around 60,000 miles, my check engine light cam on. Read the code, and found out that the crankshaft position sensor was out of spec. The next day, while getting on the highway, the truck completely dies, and would not run. I had it towed to the dealer. Turns out, with just 60,000 miles on the truck (With religious oil changes), the distributor gear had completely worn down all of it's teeth. That cost me $1,200. GM at least offered to reimburse me for half of the cost (After complaining to their main offices), but I'm still waiting for the check.

wilsonsinmt.com

Lately, my check engine light has been coming on again. The solenoid that vents the gas tank while you're filling is stuck shut, due to where it's located. They've issued a TSB on it, but of course won't repair it for me for free since the truck is out of warranty. It keeps shutting off the fuel pump every tenth of a gallon or so when I'm filling the tank. The truck has a 34 gallon tank, and weather here is often below freezing, so you can see the problem. Fixing it will cost about $300.

Just because you've had no problems, doesn't mean that they don't still have quite a few of them. (And I realize that a lot of people don't have as many problems as I've had)

Chevy Trucks, like a rock (Hey, sandstone is a rock)
 
2008-12-04 07:19:01 PM  
Someone's probably already said it, but......
The car they drove up in is a preproduction test mule under a Chevy Cruze body, not a Volt. The only thing Volt about it is the running gear. It probably wasn't suitable for four people to travel all the way from detroit in a car built specifically just to test the running gear and to carry just the driver and his evaluation equipment, computers, and such. Stupid media were given pictures and specs of the actual Volt a couple months ago, but they aren't smart enough to google that crap and put the proper picture up. Grrrrrrrrr

A real Volt:
images.paultan.org
 
2008-12-04 07:21:55 PM  

farkwell: El Dudereno: Or you could fill up the vehicle's gas tank with gasoline or E85 and forget about the whole generator thing. It has a gas engine that serves as a generator for the electric motor.

learn something every day. i didn't know the plan for the volt was to have a gas engine. wow. that's a lot of weight to drag around everywhere you go (as is the "plug it into a wall socket to charge the battery" hardware) but both will keep you from having to push the thing home when the battery dies.

i guess that once drivers get used to electric cars, it will be another baby step to transition to electric only. (with an option to put a tank/motor/generator on a trailer for long trips)


Yeah, in another 100 years, when batteries don't suck.
 
2008-12-04 07:22:58 PM  
loonatic112358 mrmopar5287: Meanwhile, I still tool around in my 1975 Mercedes Benz 240D. Purchased in 1996 for $2,000, still chugs right along.

/diesel longevity for the win

is it ready to run the 24 hours of LeMons yet?


Is this a new meme? or did you mean LeMans...

because this diesel was ready.. and sexy.

upload.wikimedia.org



And this one is a hybrid, turbo-diesel

cache.jalopnik.com

 
2008-12-04 07:23:51 PM  

Pair-o-Dice: Rug Doctor:
oldfarthenry: C'mon! You don't expect a North American car to make it 500 miles without a tow, do you?

Fix ound
Or n
Repair oad
Daily ead

Yes, this is still funny to me

Yes, funny to me as well

/Audi driver


Arrogant
Useless
Dick
Inside

HA!

/Not from Detroit.
//Not associated with the UAW
///Drives a beater Escort, great car.
 
2008-12-04 07:33:10 PM  

Geotpf: tidal9: Pair-o-Dice 2008-12-04 04:21:39 PM
Rug Doctor:
oldfarthenry: C'mon! You don't expect a North American car to make it 500 miles without a tow, do you?

Fix ound
Or n
Repair oad
Daily ead

Yes, this is still funny to me

Yes, funny to me as well

/Audi driver


Which is really funny to me, my sister-in-law's Audi has been nothing but a piece of shiat since day one. Her plastic visor clip broke and they wanted $135 with a 3-4 week import wait, then she stopped for lunch on the way home from the dealer and when she slammed the door shut, the driver side window dropped out...in november, in Minnesota.

There are approximately three companies that build really reliabile automobiles. They are Honda, Toyota, and Subaru (and their sub-divisions, so include Scion, Lexus, and Acura).

Everybody else is left in the break down lane. Detroit, the Germans, the other Japanese makes-everybody. There's the golden three, then there's a big ol' gap, then there's everybody else.

Interestingly enough, Ford might actually climb up to the golden three's level. They are already there with their cars (but their trucks are still dragging them down, so they don't make it overall).

But Audi and the rest of the Germans-forget it.


Toyota has been steadily climbing down from that perch. They've had a rough couple of years, reliability-wise.
 
2008-12-04 07:50:25 PM  
They [Ford] are already there with their cars (but their trucks are still dragging them down, so they don't make it overall).

LOLWUT?

Their trucks are their strong point. the cars ... not so much.

F-150 for example...

/never have or plan on owning a ford
//2 GM's (project cars: a 67 and a another custom f-body), 3 Toyotas, 1 Honda (commuter)
 
2008-12-04 07:52:00 PM  
*referring to quality.. and until recently the F-150 also lead their sales as well*
 
2008-12-04 08:04:21 PM  
www.oceancountypolitics.com
 
2008-12-04 08:08:00 PM  
For American Carmakers, The Problem Isn't Product: 12/03/08 (new window)

Leading up to this week, there's been a flood of opinions about the auto industry where so-called experts drudge up the usually canned ills that has brought the big three to its knees. The stereotypical maladies that plague Detroit include poor quality, cars no one wants to buy, and an over-reliance on trucks. One of our favorites was when Michael Moore, appearing on Larry King Live said, "We don't need more crap from Detroit." Those better informed know that what was true 20 years ago about domestic cars doesn't really apply today. There are, in fact, many good products coming out of Detrot. The reasons for GM's impending collapse-and the trouble facing Ford and Chrysler-are far more complicated than simply product. We've already covered the main conditions that are behind the mess here (new window)
 
2008-12-04 08:10:12 PM  
GM in Crisis-5 Reasons Why America's Largest Car Company Teeters on the Edge (new window)

1. Demand Shift and Uncertain Energy Policy
Cole says that "The first shot was the dramatic rise in energy prices this past summer. That caused a rapid mix shift in vehicles-and had a major impact on profitability." GM, Ford and Chrysler have relied on SUVs and trucks for the majority of their profits. Those vehicles commanded high sticker prices and by the late nineties made up 50 percent of the U.S. car market. When demand for the big vehicles dropped quickly and customers went for smaller, less expensive, less profitable cars, auto companies had two major issues to deal with: A loss of revenue and a backlog of unwanted trucks. Cole adds, "A big factor is our lack of an energy policy in this country. We just haven't had one. When we do things like corn-to-ethanol that don't have a foundation in economics or technology, you're really kind of teeing up to a situation where you're going to have a problem."

2. The Financial Meltdown
"The Big Kahuna in this is the financial meltdown," said Cole, "When you're down to 10 or 11 million light-vehicle sales a year, that is such a precipitous fall even from a recessionary standpoint. What has really caused the problem is lack of cash." Wall Street's problems have hit GM in two big ways: The company can't borrow money to ride out the storm, and the credit squeeze has dramatically hindered car sales. The auto industry lives on credit as do its customers, so when access to car loans or leases is limited, sales fall off a cliff. Yearly auto sales in the U.S. have hovered around the 15 to 16 million mark for the past few years and many analysts believe the total for 2008 could be as low as 10 million-the lowest in more than a decade.

3. Legacy Costs
Every car GM makes carries "legacy costs"-the costs of providing healthcare and pensions to scores of retired workers. For every GM worker, there are about 10 dependants, which are defined as retired workers and their families. According to Cole, "When the international car companies came to the U.S., the move stuck the domestics with a very large disadvantage related to legacy costs. And that's $2000 a car." That two grand must be built into the sticker price of any new GM car and truck. And that's money on top of developing, producing and marketing a car-costs that Honda, Toyota and others don't have. It makes competing difficult for the domestic automakers, "like playing basketball with a bowling ball," according to Cole. GM's per-hour labor rate for car assembly is about $75 per hour, compared to $40 to $45 for other car companies. That particular disadvantage, says Cole, will be "gone by the end of next year," when a new labor agreement goes into effect.

4. Sub-Par Quality and Lackluster Cars

Back in the early '80s, while GM president Roger Smith fell in love with the idea of automating workers out of car factories, Toyota and others focused on refining their production techniques and produced much higher quality cars. Customers left GM's brands en masse. The company's market share has fallen from a high of just over 50 percent in 1962 to around 23 percent in 2007. In recent times, the quality gap has narrowed considerably but "perception trails reality," commented Cole. Getting those customers back would require a herculean effort. Vehicle's like GM's very first attempt at a crossover-the sub-par 2001 Aztec-didn't help. Cars like that left customers will little incentive to return.

5. Global Slowdown
GM operates in 41 countries, and if its U.S. operation has been in decades of decline, other markets have been growing, particularly in Asia. But the financial shock has spread across the globe and sales are down everywhere. In effect, GM is bleeding from several wounds. As the largest of the Big Three, GM has been the focus of the media spotlight. But Ford and Chrysler are facing similar problems. And of course, thanks to many of the same factors, even healthy car companies are feeling the pain. The domestic auto companies weren't the only ones that capitalized on our thirst for light trucks. Half of Toyota's offerings are trucks and minivans. The difference is, Toyota doesn't come into this tough period already weakened by past mistakes.
 
2008-12-04 08:14:11 PM  

FootInMouthDisease: loonatic112358 mrmopar5287: Meanwhile, I still tool around in my 1975 Mercedes Benz 240D. Purchased in 1996 for $2,000, still chugs right along.

/diesel longevity for the win

is it ready to run the 24 hours of LeMons yet?

Is this a new meme? or did you mean LeMans...

because this diesel was ready.. and sexy.

And this one is a hybrid, turbo-diesel


Do a search for LeMons. I see other Jalops enjoy Fark as well.
 
2008-12-04 08:15:43 PM  
I still prefer a bicycle.
 
2008-12-04 08:17:18 PM  
I have a few 4L60e's that I would like to insert into Wagoner.

They build crap, and always will. Let them die a proper death by market forces. It's decades overdue anyway.
 
2008-12-04 08:20:51 PM  

Sticky Hands: TheRedMonkey: Toyota does make many large gas guzzling vehicles as well so criticize them. The Tundra gets worse mileage than my 1970 Chevelle did. They make on Hybrid so they are JesusCar. Its just hip to hate on American autos in America. I guess that's why Ford is the number 1 auto manufacturer in the WORLD and the F150 was the best selling vehicle for almost a decade world wide.

You should probably recheck a fact or two in this statement.

//Ford is about 4th worldwide. Behind VW but ahead of Hyundai

The Corolla is the best selling car ever, the F Series trucks are a close second. However, those trucks have been the number 1 seller in the US for at least 20 years.


The corolla just past the F150 this year in sales. Thats why I said for almost a decade. VW passed Ford in August this year so I was off. But this still supports the fact that they are not doing as bad as perceived. Its a systematic problem of the industry right now and they will be fine with a little help. If we can give handouts to people crapping out kids and not working we can give money to a company that is employing over 100k people.
 
2008-12-04 08:21:05 PM  

SoCalChris: Just because you've had no problems, doesn't mean that they don't still have quite a few of them. (And I realize that a lot of people don't have as many problems as I've had)


A buddy of mine who knows lots of mechanics reckoned that the difference between the Japanese and the rest was that the Japanese built cars to last, where the rest built cars to fail.

There are 2 attitudes in companies to customers: the long term and short term approach. The short term approach says that you've only got a customer for so long, so squeeze every penny out of them. Make a shiatty product that fails that needs lots of spare parts later. The long term approach says that what you want is a customer for life. So, you build a great product. It breaks down less, so maybe you sell less parts. But when that customer wants another car, they'll come back to you. They'll tell their friends about how great your cars are.

That is why Toyota sells more cars than anyone else. I've got a Toyota with nearly 200K on the clock. I've done 130K of that. It's broken down on me twice: once because a relay controlling the radiator failed, once because an alternator packed up. Both are things that can just happen on any car. Other than that, it's standard service and repair, replace cam belts as appropriate, that sort of thing.

The fact is, I'd like to buy a BMW. They look nice. Apparantly, they drive real nice. The Toyota is kinda average looking. But this Toyota has just been farking awesome. It's cost me peanuts over 8 years of ownership. So, I'm going to get another one.
 
2008-12-04 08:23:33 PM  

farkeruk: SoCalChris: Just because you've had no problems, doesn't mean that they don't still have quite a few of them. (And I realize that a lot of people don't have as many problems as I've had)

A buddy of mine who knows lots of mechanics reckoned that the difference between the Japanese and the rest was that the Japanese built cars to last, where the rest built cars to fail.

There are 2 attitudes in companies to customers: the long term and short term approach. The short term approach says that you've only got a customer for so long, so squeeze every penny out of them. Make a shiatty product that fails that needs lots of spare parts later. The long term approach says that what you want is a customer for life. So, you build a great product. It breaks down less, so maybe you sell less parts. But when that customer wants another car, they'll come back to you. They'll tell their friends about how great your cars are.

That is why Toyota sells more cars than anyone else. I've got a Toyota with nearly 200K on the clock. I've done 130K of that. It's broken down on me twice: once because a relay controlling the radiator failed, once because an alternator packed up. Both are things that can just happen on any car. Other than that, it's standard service and repair, replace cam belts as appropriate, that sort of thing.

The fact is, I'd like to buy a BMW. They look nice. Apparantly, they drive real nice. The Toyota is kinda average looking. But this Toyota has just been farking awesome. It's cost me peanuts over 8 years of ownership. So, I'm going to get another one.


I had a 1985 Thunderbird Elan with a 5.0 and I changed the alternator at 175k and sold it and I still see it driving around today. No idea what was fixed on it but it ran like a champ. That saying from the mechanics is a layover from the 1980s and not reflective of todays cars made by Ford or GM.
 
2008-12-04 08:25:30 PM  

farkeruk: The fact is, I'd like to buy a BMW. They look nice. Apparantly, they drive real nice.


One of the highest 5 year cost of ownerships.
 
2008-12-04 08:38:04 PM  

Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: JimBob1015: Winktologist:

This is how trains work. Fail.

Really? Trains have electric motors that are run off batteries charged by portable diesel generators?

I don't think so.


ooooh, fail.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/diesel-locomotive.htm


I stand corrected... sort of. I was talking more of commuter trains and the like. No big deal, I'm still mostly right.

Those generators are not what I'd consider "portable". Mobile, perhaps, by virtue of the fact that they are mounted to a train, but hardly portable.

Also, from your own article, the generator supplies electricity directly to the electric motor. It does not charge a battery which then powers an electric motor. And while it may have batteries which someone mentioned earlier, they are for starting the engine and running accessories, just like in your gasoline powered car.

I doubt the benefits of a system like this scale to a passenger car anyway, but as we've all seen, I could be wrong.
 
2008-12-04 08:44:54 PM  
Ford is actually making some very nice cars right now. I do hope they survive.

Other than Corvette and the Chevy Malibu GM is awful. Pontiac, Saab, Hummer and GMC need to die.

I do not know another human being who drives a Chrysler unless its a Jeep (the Wrangler is actually a very amazing vehicle) and the minivan.

Why didn't the executives just take a southwest flight? It would be the cheapest alternative if they were trying to be symbolic.
 
2008-12-04 08:45:46 PM  
Farking idiots. My mechanic uncle makes electric cars that get over 200 miles to a charge. He's made 3 of them now. Plugging his electric car caused his electric bill to go up $10 a month. He hasn't been to a gas station in years.
 
2008-12-04 08:47:44 PM  

JimBob1015: I doubt the benefits of a system like this scale to a passenger car anyway, but as we've all seen, I could be wrong.


Well, I believe you are wrong. It will scale very well after a bit more research. GM did exactly what many expected them to do with the Volt today. It did not matter what the did today, the naysayers were just waiting to jump all over them for any reason at all.

I believe those that say the Volt is going to fail are in for a big surprise. I close to the cost of another hybrid vehicle, I would buy one in a minute. Operating costs will be way less as I live near a nuke plant and electricity is relatively cheap and plentiful.
 
2008-12-04 08:51:30 PM  

tbernot: JimBob1015: I doubt the benefits of a system like this scale to a passenger car anyway, but as we've all seen, I could be wrong.

Well, I believe you are wrong. It will scale very well after a bit more research. GM did exactly what many expected them to do with the Volt today. It did not matter what the did today, the naysayers were just waiting to jump all over them for any reason at all.

I believe those that say the Volt is going to fail are in for a big surprise. I close to the cost of another hybrid vehicle, I would buy one in a minute. Operating costs will be way less as I live near a nuke plant and electricity is relatively cheap and plentiful.


I think you misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that the volt is going to fail. I am suggesting that the idea of a hybrid car with a 20 gallon diesel generator in tow to charge the batteries is far less efficient that just using the gasoline portion of the hybrid drive.
 
2008-12-04 08:55:01 PM  
less efficient than just using the gasoline portion...
 
2008-12-04 08:57:21 PM  
Wayfarer's Freedom: "I still prefer a bicycle."

i63.photobucket.com

/Has one
//$350 for the whole thing, prebuilt
///18mph, travels 15 miles per battery per charge. (It can use two, but only comes with one. Additional batteries are $125)
 
2008-12-04 09:04:30 PM  
Not the first 40 miles.
 
2008-12-04 09:13:44 PM  
Here in Canada, Chrysler is asking for $1.6B. They employ 8000 people according to the article.
http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081204.wcarm​a kers1204/ BNStory/Business/home

So, they want 200K per employee. I say Fark em. We should use the money to attract Honda or whoever else knows how to run a company.
 
2008-12-04 09:15:46 PM  
SoCalChris: They've issued a TSB on it, but of course won't repair it for me for free since the truck is out of warranty

By Federal law, they have to. That's an emissions component with a 100,000(?) mile warranty.
 
2008-12-04 10:14:59 PM  

Xlr8urfark: huntercr: Anyone have that PBS Frontline clip of the Chevy volt malfunctioning and not even being able to go above 10mph. That episode ( like most Frontline episodes ) was brilliant. I am constantly amazed at the depth of reporting that goes on in that program and how probably 80% of the population has never even seen the show.

awesome, will look into this, I love PBS for Austin City Limits reruns


Found it... Chapter 7 of Frontline: HEAT (new window)

After watching this segment I realized that the Big 3 made their own bed so straight forwardly obviously and directly that they deserve to fail. They had the future *handed* to them on a silver platter and that only because the idea scared the bejesus out of the Toyota and Honda and made them rush to catch up with hybrid technology!

The Volt segment starts a 6:12 ( with a short blurb on the EV-1 at 5:00 onward )
It's just flat out embarrassing.
 
2008-12-04 10:27:32 PM  

Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: actually, if you look inside one of those locomotives, they're full of lead acid batteries.


WTF. No.
 
2008-12-04 10:37:07 PM  
Where is the Ford Fiesta ECOnetic 65 mpg car ford REFUSES to sell
in the US -only sells overseas.
FARK FORD -get your money from the Europeeons..........not me.
 
2008-12-04 10:38:00 PM  
You inspired me, Sticky Hands

To the tune of "I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)" and apologies to The Proclaimers:

We're the Big 3,
The Big 3 of the Big 3
We're the three CEOs who farked shiat up for you
But don't you worry
Because we know we're gonna be
We're gonna be the men who grovel up for you

Okay that first time,
Yes, we prob'ly shoulda drove
We shoulda drove the cars we try to sell to you
We're driving this time
Yeah, you know we're gonna drive
We're gonna be the guys who drive a deal for you

But we would fly 500 miles
And we would drive 500 more
Just to be the men who begged for cash
From Congress like a dirty whore

We'll cut our sal'rys,
Yes, we know we're gonna be
We're gonna be the men who sacrificed for you
And when the money
Floods in from taxpayers too
We'll buy some mansions somewhere nice in Malibu

As for our bonus,
Yeah, we know we're gonna get
We're gonna get that cash whatever else we do
When we retire,
Well, we know we're gonna be
On our estates so very far away from you

But we would fly 500 miles
And we would drive 500 more
Just to be the men who begged for cash
From Congress like a dirty whore

da da da (da da da)
da da da (da da da)
Da Da Da Dun Diddle Un Diddle Un Diddle Uh Da

When we cut costs,
Well, you know we're gonna cut
We're gonna cut the jobs of lots and lots of you
It's ironic,
Cuz you know we're gonna say
We need the cash because we're "looking out for you"

When we're bailed out,
Well, you know we're gonna be
We're gonna be the men that some will call "astute"
We're not worried
Cuz you know we're gonna be
We're gonna be the men with golden parachutes

We're gonna be the men with golden parachutes

But we would fly 500 miles
And we would drive 500 more
Just to be the men who begged for cash
From Congress like a dirty whore
 
2008-12-04 10:41:47 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: By Federal law, they have to. That's an emissions component with a 100,000(?) mile warranty.


I specifically asked them about that, they claim that the federal emission warranty only covers the cats and the EGR valve (I think it was the EGR valve they said was covered, could have been another valve/sensor and I'm just not remembering right). I'll probably try another dealer though, see what they say.
 
2008-12-04 10:51:41 PM  

darkscout: Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: actually, if you look inside one of those locomotives, they're full of lead acid batteries.

WTF. No.


Sorry dude, he's right. My brother-in-law works as a mechanic for a railroad company. Modern Diesel locomotives are actually called "diesel-electric" and the ones my brother-in-law works on generate a constant 4500HP. The engine runs to charge the batteries. The actual drive motor is electric. How on earth do you think they can get that kind of torque needed to turn the wheels at rest without lunging or slippage?

And yes, they're lead acid, because they are cheap,simple, forgiving and stable in a wide range of temperatures, and fully recyclable. And being on a train, the battery's normal disadvantages of being heavy and large are not much of an issue.

Don't feel bad. I think most people know this... I certainly didn't know this either until he got the job and came by to visit and told us all about it.
 
2008-12-04 10:59:38 PM  
They will not fail totally, but we should not bail them out.. let them file chapter 11 and start from there, be competitive...they have farked the public for 4 decades. enough is enough. all three of the big three ceo's recieved 8 digit bonuses the last several years. let them return those 10's of millions to their companys.. yeah right..lol.. nuff said.
 
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