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(Wall Street Journal)   Free Plaxico Burress. NYC's gun laws are ridiculous and unconstitutional   (online.wsj.com) divider line 633
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15703 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2008 at 11:51 AM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-12-04 01:01:40 PM  
GoDawgs!: t I don't feel even slightly sorry for him. Darwin was robbed.

/Golf Clap
 
2008-12-04 01:02:06 PM  
SchlingFocker: CeroX: Thus, a ban on concealed firearms is, as defined by the constitution's wording is not an infringement on the right to bare them as baring arms means to NOT conceal them.

Please, tell me you're farking joking.

Tell us all that this is some kind of tragic joke.


Bare end mine that it might be a rotsky.
 
2008-12-04 01:02:10 PM  
I'm a Texas native who did his tour of duty in Manhattan.

1. The gun laws are in Texas are more permissive about who can own a gun but are fairly strict about where you can carry a weapon. Contrary to popular belief it's not the wild west. You're pretty much banned from carrying in any enclosed public area.

2. Plaxico was not licensed to carry in NY or NYC and I'd bet he had no formal training (otherwise he wouldn't have a chambered weapon that wasn't on safety in his waistband). Both of those will get you in big trouble in Texas. You have to have a concealed carry license and you have to training. And most Bubba's are going to have the weapon holstered and safe... b/c they don't want to shoot themselves.

3. It is against the law to discharge a firearm in a public place in Texas.

4. There are still rural areas in Texas where a firearm is very necessary. You don't drive around a farm or go fishing in a swampish area without a shotgun for rattlesnakes and water moccasins.

This has nothing to do with gun "rights"... the man was a friggin idiot who violated just about ever principle on gun safety and common sense. He's very lucky he didn't kill himself or someone else.

And with the money the man is making he could hire a serious security detail with proper firearms training. He was just carrying for street cred.

T
 
2008-12-04 01:03:48 PM  
I agree with the article. You shouldn't be allowed to require a permit for a constitutional right when you have no plans on issuing such a permit.

Frankly, I disagree with anything but shall-issue permits.
 
2008-12-04 01:04:46 PM  
mikaloyd: Bare end mine that it might be a rotsky.

I don't keep up with all the memes, but I will always fall back on assuming complete stupidity on the part of the poster :)
 
2008-12-04 01:05:06 PM  
To followup.

He shouldn't be charged for carrying without a permit. He should be charged for being irresponsible with a firearm.
 
2008-12-04 01:05:08 PM  
lexnaturalis: His conduct notwithstanding, 3 1/2 years for carrying a firearm is ridiculous.

Don't want to do the time, don't do the crime. It's not like the penalties are hidden from public knowledge.

I don't get why the pro-gun crowd are trying to justify or excuse his behavior. I thought the pro-gun argument was largely about following the law. The laws in NYC are what they are and this person broke them. Now he gets to pay the penalty.

I really don't get why people think they need guns all the time. If you feel that much in danger, something is seriously wrong with what you're doing, especially when you're affluent and can afford to not visit the more dangerous parts of town.
 
2008-12-04 01:05:15 PM  
YouWinAgainGravity: the dc gun ban got overturned by people filing a lawsuit and presenting it to the courts, not buying a bunch of guns and doing whatever they felt like.

Yes, but I like the second idea better.

Exercise your rights first. Beg for them only as a last resort.
 
2008-12-04 01:05:28 PM  
I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Read the fine print--it's a scam.

You only get the free Plaxico Burress if you buy a whiney, overpaid wide receiver of equal or greater value.


T.O.?

Man, I hope they throw the freaking book at Burress. He's a moran of the highest degree. If you're going somewhere that you feel the need to carry a weapon, maybe you should think twice and not put yourself in a situation like that, ESPECIALLY when you're such a big public figure. Don't be an asshat. Simple as that.

The worst part about this whole thing is the fact that he put his teammate in jeopardy by pulling him into this.
 
2008-12-04 01:05:29 PM  
out of curiosity, if this had happened in another state where they did issue the type of permit he asked for earlier, wouldn't he still have been charged with illegal possession for taking it into the nightclub?
 
2008-12-04 01:05:31 PM  
TheWizard: I agree with the article. You shouldn't be allowed to require a permit for a constitutional right when you have no plans on issuing such a permit.

Frankly, I disagree with anything but shall-issue permits.


Let's bring back literacy tests for voting!!! :)
 
2008-12-04 01:06:15 PM  
According to TFA, the issue is that NY does not recognize other states' concealed carry permits, and will not issue said permits to out-of-state residents.

In addition, TFA's author seems to believe that there should be reciprocity between states in regard to said permits, much as they do with drivers' licenses.

Wonder what his opinion of state reciprocity when it comes to same-sex marriage and civil unions...or, for that matter, how the 14th Amendment applies to same-sex couples.

Let's see: David B. Kopel is affiliated with the Cato Institute (new window).

And apparently he has a serious hard-on for guns (new window). So while there are some references on his Cato page regarding drug laws and mandatory sentences, he seems to be primarily a one-issue kind of guy.

Too bad. I'd love to see if he applies the same logic to civil unions.
 
2008-12-04 01:06:36 PM  
SchlingFocker: CeroX: Thus, a ban on concealed firearms is, as defined by the constitution's wording is not an infringement on the right to bare them as baring arms means to NOT conceal them.

Please, tell me you're farking joking.

Tell us all that this is some kind of tragic joke.


OMG THIS

Please tell me CeroX is sterile and can't reproduce. WTF?????!!!!!! No doubt the product of a public/government school. Sorry to be so rough on you CeroX, but you should get the FAIL tag of the day for that comment.
 
2008-12-04 01:06:40 PM  
CeroX: Thus ANYTHING classified as a firearm is allowed to be kept and bared, with bared being defined as "open to view; unconcealed; undisguised".

www.countryhumor.com

Larry, I didn't know you were on Fark!
 
2008-12-04 01:07:30 PM  
Seriously - I was wondering how long it would take someone to come out with this argument.
 
2008-12-04 01:07:38 PM  
Anyone who doesn't think gun control is a good idea needs to look at Alaska and Vermont. They are perfect examples of the carnage-plagued, crime-ridden cesspools we will have unless reasonable gun control laws are enacted.
 
2008-12-04 01:07:41 PM  
JesseL: Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: planning on a trip to DC?

Nah, I just enjoy the occasional trip to the range during my lunch break.

/and being prepared for zombies


anyone knows you need a crowbar and a shotgun for zombies.

by the way, what's your car's make, model, and license plate number?
 
2008-12-04 01:07:46 PM  
Fishj985: GoDawgs!:
But apparently the law as it stands now says he can't carry in NYC, so he should be charged and convicted.

My problem isn't that he gets convicted, just that he doesn't get to have a lesser sentence based on what is reasonable. 3.5 years for carrying a gun without a license is outrageous. That would be like going to jail for 3 years because you were driving without a license.


No, it wouldn't. I'm not going to explain why because it's

/not obscure
 
2008-12-04 01:08:29 PM  
I don't follow this case to much or no too much about NFL players. But I think the thing that shocked me the most was the fact that this gentleman was an african-american. I never saw that coming.
 
2008-12-04 01:08:42 PM  
geniusiknowit: Exercise your rights first. Beg for them only as a last resort.

other people have rights as well. in a society, you don't get to do whatever you feel like just because you don't agree. there are methods for proper disagreement with authority and they should be used first.
 
2008-12-04 01:08:48 PM  
thats why you have to keep your booger hook off the bang switch...
 
2008-12-04 01:09:12 PM  
YouWinAgainGravity: out of curiosity, if this had happened in another state where they did issue the type of permit he asked for earlier, wouldn't he still have been charged with illegal possession for taking it into the nightclub?

It depends on the state.

Here in Texas, he'd have been charged with criminal trespass.
 
2008-12-04 01:09:51 PM  
SchlingFocker: CeroX: Thus, a ban on concealed firearms is, as defined by the constitution's wording is not an infringement on the right to bare them as baring arms means to NOT conceal them.

Please, tell me you're farking joking.

Tell us all that this is some kind of tragic joke.


Ok, since i JUST double checked my spelling, you aren't being snarky about my grammar, so i am assuming you are disputing the definition of bare.

Are you disputing the definition of the word bare?
 
2008-12-04 01:09:55 PM  
It is hard to feel sorry for Plaxico Burress and his tramples gun toting rights. This guy is acting stupid and if he goes to jail for it, he deserves it.

Gonna take you down. (new window)
 
2008-12-04 01:10:59 PM  
CeroX: Ok, since i JUST double checked my spelling, you aren't being snarky about my grammar, so i am assuming you are disputing the definition of bare.

Are you disputing the definition of the word bare?


No, you mouth-breathing momo.

I'm telling you to go back and actually read the 2nd amendment before spewing your orarrhea.
 
2008-12-04 01:11:15 PM  
geniusiknowit: Anyone who doesn't think gun control is a good idea needs to look at Alaska and Vermont. They are perfect examples of the carnage-plagued, crime-ridden cesspools we will have unless reasonable gun control laws are enacted.

What works in the Arctic wastes may not work in other parts of the country.

Peter_B_Risen: I don't follow this case to much or no too much about NFL players. But I think the thing that shocked me the most was the fact that this gentleman was an african-american. I never saw that coming.

4.5/10
 
2008-12-04 01:12:09 PM  
This may have already been covered but this is a dead horse that NEEDS beaten IMHO...
- Carrying a firearm into an establishment that serves alcohol takes a special kind of stupid. I know from personal experience that alcohol and firearms DO NOT MIX. The potential for disaster is nearly impossible to calculate
-- TFA says his gun was a Glock I believe. To my knowledge, those things have safeties on top of safeties to prevent accidental discharge. I am lead to believe that he was messin' with it.
- If you're gonna carry a gun into another state, do some homework and find out the ins and outs of doing so. It's not that hard to do. I have an Ohio CCW permit and have the presence of mind to check the states that will honor my CCW in the event I'm gonna do some traveling.
-- He broke the law as it stands. This isn't a 2nd Amendment issue, he was in illegal possession of a firearm.
-Looks to me like he was being irresponsible on top of being a special kind of stupid.
 
2008-12-04 01:13:09 PM  
Pretending for a moment, this happened in New Jersey, the gun is STILL illegally being carried because of the fact that he was in a bar and under the influence.

His permit would be as worthless there as it was in NYC.

The people of NYC have decided to not issue gun permits to non-residents, and that's that. It's funny how gun-toters seem to be these states rights nutballs until it doesn't suit them, then suddenly they want the federal government to come in and tell a state how it should be.
 
2008-12-04 01:14:42 PM  
QueenOfHearts: I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Read the fine print--it's a scam.

You only get the free Plaxico Burress if you buy a whiney, overpaid wide receiver of equal or greater value.

T.O.?

Man, I hope they throw the freaking book at Burress. He's a moran of the highest degree. If you're going somewhere that you feel the need to carry a weapon, maybe you should think twice and not put yourself in a situation like that, ESPECIALLY when you're such a big public figure. Don't be an asshat. Simple as that.

The worst part about this whole thing is the fact that he put his teammate in jeopardy by pulling him into this.


THIS.

He says he carries the gun so he doesn't get robbed of his jewelry. Yet he was all dressed up for a night on the town in his jewelry and FARKING SWEATPANTS. I think we have a case of "Do you know who I am? Look at me! I'm rich and famous!"

He's actually lucky they're only going after him on the counts that TFA biatches about. They could get him for reckless endangerment - one count for everyone that was in the room when the gun went off - and that's just for starters.

NY legal code:
S 120.20 Reckless endangerment in the second degree.
A person is guilty of reckless endangerment in the second degree when he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person.
Reckless endangerment in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.


Class A misdemeanors can get you a one-year sentence. One count? Probably no jail. But figure about 50 people...and he'd really be in deep shiat.

Get a holster, idiot.
 
2008-12-04 01:14:43 PM  
So in NYC and parts of CA, it might be tough, but the laws are there on the books.
Guaranteeing prosecution :-{

Also, reciprocity among states to recognize said permits is rather common.
perhaps somewhere else but not in CT RI NJ NH VT NY state. You see, if you follow the money which translates to classes, range fee's and permit fee's you will find thats not the case.
I live next door and let me tell you, I'd rather get shot because I left my little friend at home than spend a night in Rikers for illegal carry in NYC.

It's all well and good to sit at a keyboard in the comfort of home and pontificate about rights questions but when the rubber meets the road you really want to be on the side of might and believe me, the state has might

Sadly, Might=Right nothing new though
 
2008-12-04 01:14:58 PM  
Firearms: Pistol Permit Bureau
New York State repository since 1936
Established in 1936, the Pistol Permit Bureau holds records of every legal handgun transaction that takes place in the State and is a repository for the mandated "records of transaction" that accompany sales by gun dealers or between private citizens. This would include:

pistol permit amendments,
purchase coupons, and
dealer transaction slips.
Bureau responsibilities
All records of transaction and pistol permits issued in the state are forwarded to the Pistol Permit Bureau for entry into a master database maintained by NYSP. Documents are filed by county and type of transaction. A paper trail is established for each handgun lawfully possessed in NYS; thus, a handgun can be tracked from owner to owner. Current ownership of the weapon and the legality of a person's possession of the weapon can be quickly determined.

In less than 24 hours, bureau personnel are able to provide police investigators from agencies across the country with information pertaining to handguns that may have been involved in the commission of a crime.

Pistol Permit Bureau personnel:

Help answer questions pertaining to the pistol permit process for police agencies, elected representatives and the public.
Provide documentation to law enforcement agencies regarding a person's right to possess a specific handgun, instantly giving information on gun ownership and licenses.
Keep track of handguns personally owned and possessed by law enforcement personnel.
Track inventory of weapons (machineguns, handguns, short-barreled rifles or shotguns) that are subject to regulations and independently stored by law enforcement agencies.
Oversee, review and authorize the destruction of nuisance weapons by state law enforcement agencies.
2006 Pistol Permit Bureau statistics
At the end of 2006, information on 1,200,980 firearms was on file, including 11,344 received during the year.

During 2006:

67,117 licenses were amended and 6,237were canceled or revoked.
40 new firearms dealer and gunsmith licenses were received and filed.
626 dealer and gunsmith licenses were renewed.
Retail firearms dealers reported 93,168 transactions.
As mandated by law, 15,344 nuisance firearms were destroyed in New York State, 1,394 of which were destroyed by NYSP.
 
2008-12-04 01:15:28 PM  
SchlingFocker: CeroX: Ok, since i JUST double checked my spelling, you aren't being snarky about my grammar, so i am assuming you are disputing the definition of bare.

Are you disputing the definition of the word bare?

No, you mouth-breathing momo.

I'm telling you to go back and actually read the 2nd amendment before spewing your orarrhea.


the 2nd amendment appears to say something about militias....what's that have to do with this thread?
 
2008-12-04 01:16:32 PM  
YouWinAgainGravity: geniusiknowit: Exercise your rights first. Beg for them only as a last resort.

other people have rights as well. in a society, you don't get to do whatever you feel like just because you don't agree. there are methods for proper disagreement with authority and they should be used first.



What about my right not to be subjected to your blatant disregard for capitalization?

Buying a bunch of guns and carrying them around without a stamped piece of paper does not infringe upon the rights of anyone else. If you have the right to do something, do it. Do not let anyone else think for one second that they have any authority to regulate your rights in any manner. You have a right to defend your life, without first needing the approval of some robe-wearing stiffs.
 
2008-12-04 01:16:39 PM  
For the love of good beer, I implore all Farkers to please make CeroX do his research on his own. Please do NOT post the obvious for him here.
 
2008-12-04 01:16:44 PM  
Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: the 2nd amendment appears to say something about militias....what's that have to do with this thread?

My point was that he's an illiterate momo.

He seems to think that the 2nd amendment has to do with "baring" arms.

The 2nd amendment has to do with "bearing" arms.

Two different words, two different meaning.s
 
2008-12-04 01:17:11 PM  
protectyourlimbs: Did the gun have a safety?

TFA said he had a Glock. The "safety" on a Glock is a little tab on the trigger that keeps the trigger from moving unless you place your finger on it. Of course, on any other gun type, if you don't put your finger on the trigger, the trigger doesn't move.

To answer your question, what you think of as a safety, the Glock doesn't have. Don't give a Glock to an novice: they don't instinctively know to keep their booger hooks off the bang switch.
 
2008-12-04 01:17:25 PM  
geniusiknowit: Anyone who doesn't think gun control is a good idea needs to look at Alaska and Vermont. They are perfect examples of the carnage-plagued, crime-ridden cesspools we will have unless reasonable gun control laws are enacted.

We see what you did there.

Don't be chicken. Just say "Black people are the cause of crime" and be done with it.
 
2008-12-04 01:18:11 PM  
Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: the 2nd amendment appears to say something about militias....what's that have to do with this thread?

Go back and read his comments. Then, perhaps, you'd understand.
 
2008-12-04 01:18:25 PM  
redcard: It's funny how gun-toters seem to be these states rights nutballs until it doesn't suit them, then suddenly they want the federal government to come in and tell a state how it should be.

no one is asking congress or the federal government to do anything. we're asking the state to abide by the US constitution
 
2008-12-04 01:20:14 PM  
SchlingFocker: The 2nd amendment has to do with "bearing" arms.

Two different words, two different meaning.s


the majority discussed "bear" extensively in Heller, which the guy would know if he read it
 
2008-12-04 01:20:30 PM  
Mandatory Minimums, the war on drugs FTW!
 
2008-12-04 01:20:33 PM  
FTFA: Most observers believe that the Supreme Court will eventually make state and local governments obey the Second Amendment. If it does, New York's discrimination against nonresidents will probably be ruled unconstitutional.

But until SCOTUS rules on it, NYC's law stands, and Burress violated it.

Also FTFA: But he does not face prison for shooting himself. Mr. Burress is not facing prosecution for carelessness, but simply for carrying a weapon.

Isn't discharging a weapon indoors, or in a business or something like that also illegal?

Also FTFA: In New York City, carry permits are issued, but to applicants with some form of political clout rather than on the basis of his or her need for protection.


Prove it?
Methinks the author may have applied for a permit and gotten denied.
 
2008-12-04 01:21:00 PM  
craxyd: TFA says his gun was a Glock I believe. To my knowledge, those things have safeties on top of safeties to prevent accidental discharge. I am lead to believe that he was messin' with it.

Glocks do not have a manual safety like other handguns. They have firing pin blocks that prevent the firing pin from moving forward if the trigger is not pulled (like if they are dropped) but there is no safety that will prevent a discharge if the trigger is pulled.
 
2008-12-04 01:21:09 PM  
geniusiknowit:
JosephFinn: Why? The Constitution bans gun ownership unless you belong to a militia. It's pretty damn clear, despite some very odd interpretations over the years.

Pick one:
You fail at
A. Correctly interpreting English usage.
B. Having historical evidence to support your assertion.
C. Studying Supreme Court rulings relevant to this topic.
D. All of the above.


E. profit?
 
2008-12-04 01:22:17 PM  
Ok... formal apology here... as i obviously have the wrong word entered here...

Though my analysis of what i was saying is true, the wrong word was being used...

After going and looking at the constitution, it does say bear... which definition is to carry or bring... so, by that definition, then yes, any attempt to ban the carrying or bringing of a firearm would be an infringement...

Thus, it would be unconstitutional to infringe upon the right to carry or bring a firearm...

Correction made.

Sorry...

/will go cry in the corner now if that will make you happy...
//has no more blood to give
 
2008-12-04 01:22:31 PM  
craxyd: -- TFA says his gun was a Glock I believe. To my knowledge, those things have safeties on top of safeties to prevent accidental discharge. I am lead to believe that he was messin' with it.

Glocks are apparently notorious for having issues with their safeties. I had not been aware of it until recently, as I have seen the little switch that is red when the safety is on, and no color when the safety is off. But I've had several very knowledgeable people advise me at this point that the safeties on a Glock are essentially useless.

One should always assume a safety is useless, and not grab the god damned trigger... but apparently its a known issue with the Glocks. It's entirely possible that it discharged in the manner described.

He's still an douche, and should be charged for having a gun in a bar, etc etc. It's a shame they chose a charge that could actually be challenged from a constitutional point of view.
 
2008-12-04 01:22:45 PM  
CeroX: SchlingFocker: CeroX: Thus, a ban on concealed firearms is, as defined by the constitution's wording is not an infringement on the right to bare them as baring arms means to NOT conceal them.

Please, tell me you're farking joking.

Tell us all that this is some kind of tragic joke.

Ok, since i JUST double checked my spelling, you aren't being snarky about my grammar, so i am assuming you are disputing the definition of bare.

Are you disputing the definition of the word bare?


Due to the responses I award you a previously unpossible 11/10

www.seattlechoralcompany.org
 
2008-12-04 01:22:51 PM  
i280.photobucket.com

/I have nothing else to add.
 
2008-12-04 01:23:30 PM  
Can't he just be charged for his true crime...being a poster child for what is wrong with today's athletes?
 
2008-12-04 01:24:24 PM  
SchlingFocker: Dafatone: I don't see why it's so horrible to put someone in jail a while for illegally carrying a gun.

Tell that to a battered wife who's gotten a restraining order against her husband and is carrying an equalizer with her.


If she went through the process of getting a restraining order, why wouldn't she go through the process of getting a permit? Is there something about her condition as a battered spouse that legally prevents her from obtaining a permit?

If it's horrible to put her in jail for illegally carrying because she's battered, is it also horrible to put her in jail for dealing heroin to her kid's schoolmates? should we not ticket her for speeding? How, in the name of God, does the fact that she's battered have anything to do with anything?

The law says you need a permit. The law gives you the ability to acquire said permit. If you carry without the permit, you get punished. The state legislature has stated that that punishment includes jail time.

I don't see the problem.
 
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