jake_lex: I'm pretty sure that even in the heart of gun-nut land (let's just say Texas), if you stick a loaded gun in the waistband of your sweatpants and it goes off, you're in some trouble.

Even putting the 2nd amendment issue aside the problem is that the law mandates his sentence. This could violate his right to a jury trial where factors that affect his sentence are not determined by a jury. He is not allowed to use his circumstances (eg. carelessness) to mitigate the punishment intended for someone else (eg. criminal battery).

Most observers believe that the Supreme Court will eventually make state and local governments obey the Second Amendment. If it does, New York's discrimination against nonresidents will probably be ruled unconstitutional.

But apparently the law as it stands now says he can't carry in NYC, so he should be charged and convicted.

GoDawgs!:
But apparently the law as it stands now says he can't carry in NYC, so he should be charged and convicted.

My problem isn't that he gets convicted, just that he doesn't get to have a lesser sentence based on what is reasonable. 3.5 years for carrying a gun without a license is outrageous. That would be like going to jail for 3 years because you were driving without a license.

GoDawgs!: But apparently the law as it stands now says he can't carry in NYC, so he should be charged and convicted.

That's true, but he could remain free pending appeal.

Nabb1: Even jurisdictions that have more relaxed laws on gun registration and carrying have penalties for unlawful discharge of a firearm.

That's all well and good, but he's not being charged with unlawful discharge, he's being charged with unlawful possession.

Fishj985: 3.5 years for carrying a gun without a license is outrageous.

Carrying, yes. Firing it in a public place whether intentional or not? Maybe. It's weird, because I'm very much in favor of CCW, but this moron was doing it wrong on so many levels that I don't feel even slightly sorry for him. Darwin was robbed.

GoDawgs!: It's weird, because I'm very much in favor of CCW, but this moron was doing it wrong on so many levels that I don't feel even slightly sorry for him.

His conduct notwithstanding, 3 1/2 years for carrying a firearm is ridiculous. He isn't being charged for firing the weapon he is being charged for possessing it. Justifying a ridiculous law by making assertions of some other non-related action is not good jurisprudence.

lexnaturalis: That's all well and good, but he's not being charged with unlawful discharge, he's being charged with unlawful possession.

They farked up on that one, accidental or not.

GoDawgs!:
Carrying, yes. Firing it in a public place whether intentional or not? Maybe.

lexnaturalis:

That's all well and good, but he's not being charged with unlawful discharge, he's being charged with unlawful possession.

This.

Someone call up Anthony Kumia and get his opinion on how ridiculous the laws are in the NYC area.

lexnaturalis: His conduct notwithstanding, 3 1/2 years for carrying a firearm is ridiculous. He isn't being charged for firing the weapon he is being charged for possessing it.

I think this is the crazy part. Who cares if someone is packing? It doesn't mean s*** until the gun goes off, either accidentally or purposefully.

They're charging him for the wrong thing, plain and simple.

NittLion78: They're charging him for the wrong thing, plain and simple.

That's exactly the point.

It doesn't matter how ridiculous anyone thinks the law is. It's in the books and he broke it. I think the open container law is ridiculous, but you won't find me breaking it.
Know the law. Obey the law. You won't have a problem. Don't like it? Write your Congressman, start a petition, stir some shiat to get it amended or changed. Just don't whine about how unfair the law is after you've been busted for breaking it.

jake_lex: I'm pretty sure that even in the heart of gun-nut land (let's just say Texas), if you stick a loaded gun in the waistband of your sweatpants and it goes off, you're in some trouble.

That's between Burress and Darwin. Why prosecute it?

dont carry a gun in states you are permitted to. seems simple WSJ.

Even in places like SD where people can open carry without a license and CCP's are pretty easy to get, you're not supposed to carry your weapon into a bar or club.
Also, if you carry your gun with a round in the chamber and stuck into your pants, you may go off half-cocked. Get a freakin' holster.

beerrun: Know the law. Obey the law. You won't have a problem. Don't like it? Write your Congressman, start a petition, stir some shiat to get it amended or changed. Just don't whine about how unfair the law is after you've been busted for breaking it.

I think you are forgetting the cardinal rule of gun threads: The Constitution says you have to own one.

Is it that hard to get a gun permit?

I don't see why it's so horrible to put someone in jail a while for illegally carrying a gun.

I'm fine with legal possession of firearms, but I don't really see the point in defending illegal possession.

Of course, I'm from NY and never really got this whole "gotta have my guns" mentality, so maybe I'm missing something.

beerrun: Know the law.

BWAHAHAHAH!!!

In this nation, we break the law on a daily basis. It's impossible to know every single law, much less follow them all.

Try another argument, you Nazi.

The weapon was unholsterd and he was Drinking that is against basic hand gun training, it was irresponsable and wrong. Fry Baby Fry. If he had shot someone in self defense this would not be an issue but since what he did is a blantent hand gun saftey violation. he should fry, But He SHOULD FRY FOR DRINKING WHILE CARRYING A HAND GUN, not the permit thing

I'm pretty sure I could find a nice steak in the heart of gun-nut land.

If someone thinks carrying a loaded weapon in an elastic waist band in an environment where alcohol is being consumed is a good idea, I'd rather not have that person walking the streets.

beerrun: ...Just don't whine about how unfair unconstitutional the law is after you've been busted for breaking it.


that's sort of what the supreme court is there for.

if you clearly have no earthly idea about how to operate or possess a loaded firearm - which this idiot clearly is guilty of - carrying said weapon around is just as bad, if not worse, than drunk driving. fark him

I would probably be more sympathetic to his carrying a firearm if he weren't doing so in a bar whilst intoxicated. If he'd just been walking around with it, I wouldn't care.

Damn. By glancing at the headline I thought I was going to get something for free.

Dafatone: I don't see why it's so horrible to put someone in jail a while for illegally carrying a gun.

Tell that to a battered wife who's gotten a restraining order against her husband and is carrying an equalizer with her.

Mandatory sentences like this are crazy. It's as bad as some of the mandatory sentences for drugs.

That being said, he should get some time for this. I like the idea of it being illegal to carry a semi automatic pistol into a crowded club.

We need harsher gun laws not lighter ones. And no I'm not contradicting myself, he shouldn't have been allowed to purchase that gun in the first place is what I mean.

Its perfectly reasonable to throw the book at him. The gun laws in NYC are draconian for a reason, when (if) he gets the max other wealthy individuals will opt for the bodyguard option when face with the same choice.

Gun control thread!

I'm sure someone will change their mind on this issue today.

jake_lex: I'm pretty sure that even in the heart of gun-nut land (let's just say Texas), if you stick a loaded gun in the waistband of your sweatpants and it goes off, you're in some trouble.


it's your own fault if you do it, but it shouldn't be illegal.

everyone has the right to own and bare arms. period. it's right there in the 2nd amendment.

Why? The Constitution bans gun ownership unless you belong to a militia. It's pretty damn clear, despite some very odd interpretations over the years.

God Bless America!
The land of people willing and eager to shoot at anything you tell them to.


Go Team America!

lexnaturalis: GoDawgs!: It's weird, because I'm very much in favor of CCW, but this moron was doing it wrong on so many levels that I don't feel even slightly sorry for him.

His conduct notwithstanding, 3 1/2 years for carrying a firearm is ridiculous. He isn't being charged for firing the weapon he is being charged for possessing it. Justifying a ridiculous law by making assertions of some other non-related action is not good jurisprudence.

Why is 3.5 years for carrying a unlicensed firearm unlawful? I see the restrictions as being there to protect the public from dumbasses who have no business having guns in public because they might be dumb enough not to handle them responsibly. If only I could think of an example of such a case....

/would gladly pry the gun from the cold dead hands

Throw the book at his dumb ass, professional athletes make great martyrs.
Besides if you think you need a gun at a night club, don't you think maybe you shouldn't go, or at least hire a body guard that is legal to CCW where you are.

JosephFinn: Why? The Constitution bans gun ownership unless you belong to a militia.

You're saying that the BoR explicitly takes a right away from the people??

Farking momo.

SchlingFocker: Dafatone: I don't see why it's so horrible to put someone in jail a while for illegally carrying a gun.

Tell that to a battered wife who's gotten a restraining order against her husband and is carrying an equalizer with her.

Again, certainly a terrible situation. But permits aren't that hard to get.

Plus, to the best of my knowledge, nobody's battering Plaxico.

SchlingFocker: Dafatone: I don't see why it's so horrible to put someone in jail a while for illegally carrying a gun.

Tell that to a battered wife who's gotten a restraining order against her husband and is carrying an equalizer with her.

Sure. Where is she?

"Madame, while your circumstances may warrant some reconsideration, illegally carrying a gun should subject you to imprisonment. If you feel it is necessary to carry a gun, I recommend you apply for a permit."

SchlingFocker: Dafatone: I don't see why it's so horrible to put someone in jail a while for illegally carrying a gun.

Tell that to a battered wife who's gotten a restraining order against her husband and is carrying an equalizer with her.

She would in most cases be able to carry a firearm lawfully. While the batterer would be more likely to be unlawfully carrying a firearm.

"I tell you Franklin, God and the Second Amendment gives us an unalienable right
to carry a piece into a tavernheld up only by an elastic waistband!
That's clearly our intent here."

Dafatone: Is it that hard to get a gun permit?

I don't see why it's so horrible to put someone in jail a while for illegally carrying a gun.

I'm fine with legal possession of firearms, but I don't really see the point in defending illegal possession.

Of course, I'm from NY and never really got this whole "gotta have my guns" mentality, so maybe I'm missing something.

In New York, even if you have a clean criminal record, it generally takes at least a year to get a gun permit. My brother-in-law just finished the process - my father (who has a couple DUIs), was basically informed never to bother trying.

jbuist: Fishj985: 3.5 years for carrying a gun without a license is outrageous.

It's 5 in Michigan.

the issue isn't the sentence - it's the fact that since NY won't honor concealed carry permits and won't give permits to non-residents from other states, it's IMPOSSIBLE for someone who isn't a NY resident to be able to carry a handgun in NY