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(ABC)   GM and Chrysler warn: 'There's no plan-b.' Well, perhaps they should have used a condom   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 297
    More: Followup  
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5375 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Dec 2008 at 3:04 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-12-03 01:30:45 PM  
Why are we considering a bailout for these guys again? And how is their struggle any harder or more important than those of small businesses?

/blah blah unions and high wages
//whatever
 
2008-12-03 01:44:40 PM  
A humbler group of auto executives returns to Congress this week, pledging to slash costs, including their own salaries, and to accelerate the design and construction of fuel-efficient cars if Congress coughs up tens of billions to bail them out.

Ok, let me be frank - I simply do not trust these guys. I think that unless there is oversight authority (with some regulatory teeth) they're gonna take the money and spend it on hookers and blow. They showed up to Congress last week to beg for money while wearing $2000 suits and arriving in a private jet.

They tell us they're smart people and that they earn those million dollar salaries...ok, prove it to me. come up with a plan to save your business that doesn't require a taxpayer handout. Earn your paychecks, you farking greedy assholes. Prove to me (and to the world) than you're smarter than the rest of us.
 
2008-12-03 02:07:45 PM  
Doooom: Why are we considering a bailout for these guys again? And how is their struggle any harder or more important than those of small businesses?

/blah blah unions and high wages
//whatever


Well, according to people who research these things, anywhere from 20-35% of people in the country have a job somehow related to the Big 3 automakers (directly working for them, parts supplier, etc.) So, from that aspect, I assume the govt. is just interested in not having national unemployment shoot up to 15% or higher in 3 months after they folded shop.

Granted, Ford and the foreign manufacturers would pick up more sales and need to bring on more staff if GM & Chrysler fold up. But, for an extended period before the other manufacturers would be able to ramp up and pick up the slack, there would have a large amount of people unemployed.

Other than that though, I agree, they don't deserve anything more than any other business that can't hack it.
 
2008-12-03 02:20:26 PM  
dletter: according to people who research these things, anywhere from 20-35% of people in the country have a job somehow related to the Big 3 automakers (directly working for them, parts supplier, etc.)

Hahaha.

I read a study by the Institute for Auto Employees that proved that 107% of the people in the US were dependent on the Big 3.
 
2008-12-03 02:51:29 PM  
coat hanger?
 
2008-12-03 02:58:43 PM  
angelslogic: coat hanger?

We should send them coat hangers to help with the abortion.

\They'd use them to make car parts
 
2008-12-03 03:07:35 PM  
I can't wait to see the new Chrysler RU-486. It doesn't come with child safety seats, but it looks pretty sweet.
 
2008-12-03 03:07:41 PM  
Draaaaaaa-Noooooooo
 
2008-12-03 03:08:39 PM  
Let's just switch to Imulsion and be done with it, what can possibly go wrong?.
 
2008-12-03 03:09:48 PM  
Let them fail. Give the bailout money directly to the employees that will be laid off. If they are smart they will use it to move to the south where they can work for Toyota, Honda, or Vokswagen. All of the above seem to be doing just fine even in this bad economy.
 
2008-12-03 03:10:07 PM  
Came here for the annoying MadTV over-makuped chick reference, leaving sassified.
 
2008-12-03 03:10:16 PM  
Doooom: Why are we considering a bailout for these guys again?

Because a lot of people would be out of work otherwise, and those people vote.
 
2008-12-03 03:10:17 PM  
Well if they were asking Walgreens for a bailout, this might be the case.

/maybe Planned Parenthood can give them a gift certificate or something
 
2008-12-03 03:10:38 PM  
Why are these guys posturing like they hold all the cards?

Business as usual I guess.
 
2008-12-03 03:10:52 PM  
Oh, come on you bastards... subby's headline was funny!

+1!!

/Not subby.
 
2008-12-03 03:10:57 PM  
What is UAW going to do to save those jobs?

There are a lot of issue that need to be resolved. I am scared at this point.
 
2008-12-03 03:11:31 PM  
I think we should throw the CEO's out of their private planes and see if their golden parachutes save them.
 
2008-12-03 03:11:45 PM  
Plan B = Bankrupcy

Suck it up and file.
 
2008-12-03 03:12:35 PM  
dletter: Well, according to people who research these things, anywhere from 20-35% of people in the country have a job somehow related to the Big 3 automakers (directly working for them, parts supplier, etc.) So, from that aspect, I assume the govt. is just interested in not having national unemployment shoot up to 15% or higher in 3 months after they folded shop.

I think the approximate number I have heard is that ~3 million people work for the Big 3 or are part makers. That doesn't include the cities that supply services to the people who work in those plants, which is probably another 3 million people. The current unemployment numbers are ~4 million unemployed. I'd rather not see that increase by 2 1/2 times. The Big 3 must be saved for the health of America. And to the people who say that if they are good workers they will get a job: Just where the hell does a job market exist for 6 million people suddenly unemployed? There are no jobs for these people. Not saving the auto industry will wreck this country. I would bet my life on it.
 
2008-12-03 03:13:11 PM  
As someone who once owned a Ford product, I would like to invite the US auto industry to DIAF.
 
2008-12-03 03:13:34 PM  
LargeCanine: Plan B = Bankrupcy

Suck it up and file.


This, and make make sure that you include the UAW contract in the list of creditors. Immediately stop remitting dues to them.
 
2008-12-03 03:13:35 PM  
At least Ford's CEO said he will cut his own salary to $1 a year, and is selling off their private jets- along with moving up release of hybrids and electrics and improving the lineup's safety.

Are the other guys doing anything to cut rediculous costs?
I don't mind a loan to them- as long as they make real improvements and TRY to fix the situation!
 
2008-12-03 03:14:12 PM  
Jesus built my hybrid: Let them fail. Give the bailout money directly to the employees that will be laid off. If they are smart they will use it to move to the south where they can work for Toyota, Honda, or Vokswagen. All of the above seem to be doing just fine even in this bad economy.

Came in to say what has been said. 'Cept that moving to the south part. Wouldn't'a said that.
 
2008-12-03 03:14:22 PM  
What 'Plan B' May Look Like

www.thelightisgreen.com
 
2008-12-03 03:14:36 PM  
Hot-wired: At least Ford's CEO said he will cut his own salary to $1 a year, and is selling off their private jets- along with moving up release of hybrids and electrics and improving the lineup's safety.

Are the other guys doing anything to cut rediculous costs?
I don't mind a loan to them- as long as they make real improvements and TRY to fix the situation!


I might by another Ford.
 
2008-12-03 03:15:51 PM  
Neil Young is smiling I bet.

\drives a Prius
\\47.5 MPG
 
2008-12-03 03:16:21 PM  
My money is on Ford pulling through this better than the other two. That being said, they aren't actually getting any of it.
 
2008-12-03 03:16:30 PM  
Can you say Free Market Economy?
 
2008-12-03 03:17:15 PM  
Weaver95: They tell us they're smart people and that they earn those million dollar salaries...ok, prove it to me.

If they actually do score that cash from the gub'mint, they are indeed "worthy" of their salaries. Anyone who can pull the multi-billion dollar blinders over someone is worthy of making a few mil. That Congress is farking retarded is another matter all together.

I don't really doubt they're going to get it, especially after January rolls around.
 
2008-12-03 03:17:29 PM  
I say lets reward failure!
For those who disagree I ask
why do you hate communism?
 
2008-12-03 03:17:52 PM  
GAT_00: Not saving the auto industry will wreck this country. I would bet my life on it.

Saving it means lining the pockets of the same greedy pigs that got them into this mess. I'm not placing bets, but that's the only "sure thing" in the whole debacle -- once the "bailout" is approved, start counting the days until these guys pull the ripcords since their retirements will be fully funded. The taxpayers will look around going "hey weren't they going to fix things?" and they'll laugh all the way to the Carribbean.
 
2008-12-03 03:18:03 PM  
us.st12.yimg.com
 
2008-12-03 03:18:18 PM  
globalwarmingpraiser: What is UAW going to do to save those jobs?

There are a lot of issue that need to be resolved. I am scared at this point.


Well they are suspending the "jobs bank" for one.
 
2008-12-03 03:18:44 PM  
dletter: Doooom: Why are we considering a bailout for these guys again? And how is their struggle any harder or more important than those of small businesses?

/blah blah unions and high wages
//whatever

Well, according to people who research these things, anywhere from 20-35% of people in the country have a job somehow related to the Big 3 automakers (directly working for them, parts supplier, etc.) So, from that aspect, I assume the govt. is just interested in not having national unemployment shoot up to 15% or higher in 3 months after they folded shop.

Granted, Ford and the foreign manufacturers would pick up more sales and need to bring on more staff if GM & Chrysler fold up. But, for an extended period before the other manufacturers would be able to ramp up and pick up the slack, there would have a large amount of people unemployed.

Other than that though, I agree, they don't deserve anything more than any other business that can't hack it.


Do you apply critical analysis to any stat you hear?

The bare minimum?

You believe that 60 to 105 MILLION people work for the Big 3 & their part suppliers?

Do you realize how idiotic that is?
 
2008-12-03 03:18:56 PM  
Can't bankruptcy be considered an abortion?
 
2008-12-03 03:19:18 PM  
Rumor mill is suggesting that there are Chinese companies looking to purchase Chrysler and GM. Our gov'ment is fine with this as well.

/discuss
 
2008-12-03 03:19:26 PM  
Plan B - move the plant 5 km down the road
 
2008-12-03 03:19:53 PM  
UAW equivalent hourly wage (including benefits) ~$78 / hour
Japanese plants located in America wage (including benefits) ~$40-$50 / hour

Don't feel like looking up the sources, but they can't be far off from the real values.

The Big 3 just need to finally, FINALLY man up and tell the Union to go FARK itself. Plenty of people would do that work for ~$50 an hour or less, the $80 is unrealistic.

About 2 years ago on NPR they were doing a segment on UAW workers, and they spoke to 2 different ones.

One of them was showing off his $180K RV, the other was telling about how he makes $75 an hour driving cars from the assembly line to the parking lot...

$75 / hour
x 8 hours per day
x 5 days per week
x 50 weeks per year
= $150,000 per year (including benefits / pension)

Considering the average real average wage for Americans is like $28 / hour, these guys do not deserve ANY of our money.
 
2008-12-03 03:19:54 PM  
Nice economy you've got here, be a shame if something happened to it...
 
2008-12-03 03:20:06 PM  
The automakers ought to go into the pitchfork, torch, tar, feather, and noose business. I have a feeling those items will be in high demand in not too long.
 
2008-12-03 03:20:36 PM  
If I don't get a billion dollars this country is headed for financial disaster. And the terrorists win.

You've all been warned.
 
2008-12-03 03:21:01 PM  
Weaver95: Ok, let me be frank - I simply do not trust these guys. I think that unless there is oversight authority (with some regulatory teeth) they're gonna take the money and spend it on hookers and blow.

I've got just the guy for the job:
img514.imageshack.us
 
2008-12-03 03:21:21 PM  
There is a plan b (new window)
 
2008-12-03 03:21:22 PM  
Bravo, subby.
 
2008-12-03 03:21:44 PM  
Anyone ever heard of Jonathan Goodwin? "With a $5,000 bolt-on kit he co-engineered the poor man's version of a Goodwin conversion - he can immediately transform any diesel vehicle to burn 50% less fuel and produce 80% fewer emissions."

How hard can it be for these giant companies to lower the cost and mass-produce systems like this guy? I know there's a intertwined relationship with the oil companies but maybe, just maybe, they will be forced to research and sell what the consumers want now that they're against the wall.
 
2008-12-03 03:22:00 PM  
CygnusDarius: Let's just switch to Imulsion and be done with it, what can possibly go wrong?.

I dunno, i think i'd prefer nuclear powered cars. Wait, whats this about the yao gaui?
 
2008-12-03 03:22:01 PM  
They are going to get the money people, quit your biatching. You morons think because you voted your job is done. If you want to do something about it, you should have ran for office. The opinions in this thread is the summation of all that is wrong with America. Why don't you suck down another McBurger and a can of horse piss; leave the economy to those that actually matter. Fark all of you.
 
2008-12-03 03:22:03 PM  
All they gotta do at Ford is run it like a small business and not a royal family affair. All those kings and princes of industry have got to go, along with the attitude of entitlement.
If you have conned or slimed a board of directors for some $15K or $20K per hour rape job, you still do not rate a jet and should be smart enough to see why! Live with those little people or die!
 
2008-12-03 03:22:04 PM  
Plan B = Chocolate City?
 
2008-12-03 03:22:40 PM  
Maybe they should just can all the UAW workers and see what happens. You can hire a bunch of them back as non UAW and possibly get some of the temps that lost their jobs with Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, etc.
 
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