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(The Nation)   Amen, I say unto thee, "progressives," that before the cock crows the Messiah shall deny thee three cabinet positions   ( thenation.com) divider line
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2832 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Nov 2008 at 1:49 PM (8 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-11-24 10:53:55 AM  
Interesting article.

And it's true, the left has been right about any number of issues we're facing now, and about all kinds of issues that haven't been addressed yet and probably aren't going to be (like the War on Drugs and industrial prisons).

However, all that doesn't mean that Obama shouldn't do the right thing and govern as a leader of all Americans, not just the liberal ones. Just because the Republicans have been hardline assholes wouldn't make it right if we did it, too. In fact, it would be more likely to get us booted out the next election. Overreach is the stake in the heart of change candidates.
 
2008-11-24 11:00:02 AM  
he's appointing people from an operational standpoint, not an ideological one. no matter how ultimately qualified some progressives would be, they would have a learning curve that we simply don't have time to deal with right now.

obama has to hit the ground running, he needs people who know what they're doing. he'll be the one charting the course.

i'd expect him to start appointing more progressives once the economy is back on some semblance of stable footing.
 
2008-11-24 11:14:15 AM  

hillbillypharmacist: And it's true, the left has been right about any number of issues we're facing now, and about all kinds of issues that haven't been addressed yet and probably aren't going to be (like the War on Drugs and industrial prisons).


Like what?

It seems clear to me that Obama is doing his best to populate the administration with managers who have some kind of experience or understanding of the issues they will need to be dealing with. There aren't a lot of progressives that can be taken seriously and that have any experience in the executive branch. So that's why they're not showing up. The only one I expect to see in the cabinet will be David Bonior at Labor.

Where progressives should be complaining is if Obama doesn't appoint any of them to the mid-level positions within the administration, letting them get the seasoning they need to be ready to take over high profile jobs down the road. If that doesn't happen, they have a right to complain.
 
2008-11-24 11:15:50 AM  
Wahhhhh?
 
2008-11-24 11:21:20 AM  

DeltaXi65: Like what?


well, the push to get off of foreign oil back in the 70s springs to mind.
 
2008-11-24 11:31:25 AM  

burndtdan: well, the push to get off of foreign oil back in the 70s springs to mind.


You mean when Richard Nixon said it?
 
2008-11-24 11:44:35 AM  

burndtdan: he's appointing people from an operational standpoint, not an ideological one. no matter how ultimately qualified some progressives would be, they would have a learning curve that we simply don't have time to deal with right now.

obama has to hit the ground running, he needs people who know what they're doing. he'll be the one charting the course.

i'd expect him to start appointing more progressives once the economy is back on some semblance of stable footing.


Look, the Republicans lost. Stop making the experience argument. The voters clearly signaled they've had their fill of "experience" and want "change".

No one has any idea of how to solve the main issues that will face Obama on day one--least of all the career bureaucrats. Obama is a smart man and he presumably knows that the first things he does will most likely be insufficient and or fail completely. I think he is trying to buy some time from the "market" so the "market" doesn't completely lose faith.
 
2008-11-24 11:47:58 AM  

notmtwain: Look, the Republicans lost. Stop making the experience argument.


you should look into the wild successes of jimmy carter's presidency and bill clinton's first 100 days and see how things turn out when you bring in a bunch of people with no experience to run the massive bureaucracies of the federal government and to try and push legislation through congress.
 
2008-11-24 12:05:47 PM  
farking explain the Messiah thing or stop using it. It sounds farking retarded.
 
2008-11-24 12:11:20 PM  

burndtdan: you should look into the wild successes of jimmy carter's presidency and bill clinton's first 100 days and see how things turn out when you bring in a bunch of people with no experience to run the massive bureaucracies of the federal government and to try and push legislation through congress.



...right like when you tried to elect the sportscaster to the vice presidency, second in command to the 72 year old insane cancer patient?
 
2008-11-24 12:30:50 PM  

Mugato: ...right like when you tried to elect the sportscaster to the vice presidency, second in command to the 72 year old insane cancer patient?


You're completely misunderstanding his argument. This guy clearly IS an Obama supporter. He just realizes that to bring change to washington he can't hire a bunch of people who don't know what they're doing.
 
2008-11-24 12:39:09 PM  

Mugato: burndtdan: you should look into the wild successes of jimmy carter's presidency and bill clinton's first 100 days and see how things turn out when you bring in a bunch of people with no experience to run the massive bureaucracies of the federal government and to try and push legislation through congress.


...right like when you tried to elect the sportscaster to the vice presidency, second in command to the 72 year old insane cancer patient?


Are you saying Clinton's and Carter's 100 days were legislative successes? Because they weren't... not in any way. Perhaps if we weren't in a crisis situation where many economists, including those from the very progressive think tanks that now call for Obama to put more of there number in his Cabinet, are calling for immediate action he could field some dark horses. But right now, we need new legislation and augments to old bureaucracies as soon as possible to head this off. It's not Obama's fault that most major progressive actors have been in the academic and policy fields and not in the administrative ones. Perhaps when things have settled he can dismiss them and bring in fresh blood (there have been rumors that this is the plan for Bob Gates at SecDef)
 
2008-11-24 12:43:58 PM  
Hmmm... the people that voted for Obama in the hopes that he was going to be a standard bearer of the greater Liberal agenda are fools. Obama has (barring the strange obsession from the right) always shown himself to be a center left politician. But above that Obama is an excellent manager and he is going to appoint cabinet members that are good administrators of their chosen field. Appointing ideologues is a recipe for failure (see: Bush Administration). I voted for Obama because I wanted a good leader as the President, not because I dreamed him to be the new messiah of the progressive movement.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2008-11-24 12:50:30 PM  
Not a single, solitary, actual dyed-in-the-wool progressive has, as far as I can tell, even been mentioned for a position in the new administration.

Well at least there's a little good news. Hope it lasts for the next four years.
 
2008-11-24 12:59:00 PM  

clgrin: Are you saying Clinton's and Carter's 100 days were legislative successes? Because they weren't... not in any way.



How much better would McCain have been? And Bush's first year I don't needs to be discussed.
 
2008-11-24 01:10:23 PM  
Mugato: farking explain the Messiah thing or stop using it. It sounds farking retarded.

Hi, welcome back. It's November 2009. Records indicate that you were cryogenically frozen back in December 2006. You have a lot of catching up to do.
 
2008-11-24 01:13:06 PM  

MasterThief: Hi, welcome back. It's November 2009.


WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN FOR THE LAST YEAR?!?
 
2008-11-24 01:16:46 PM  

MasterThief: Mugato: farking explain the Messiah thing or stop using it. It sounds farking retarded.

Hi, welcome back. It's November 2009. Records indicate that you were cryogenically frozen back in December 2006. You have a lot of catching up to do.


Unpossible. Everyone knows Obama is the Antichrist (new window).
 
2008-11-24 01:18:20 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: This guy clearly IS an Obama supporter.


i was really amused that there was someone who didn't know that, since i was accused of being a paid operative of the campaign during the election.
 
2008-11-24 01:53:00 PM  
obama supports the bush war doctrine
 
2008-11-24 01:53:34 PM  
bp2.blogger.com

Disappointed about lack of progressives
 
2008-11-24 01:53:50 PM  
F*ck off, subby.

And the next idiot who refers to Obama as Messiah, consider your cockpunch in the mail arriving when you least suspect it.
 
2008-11-24 01:55:10 PM  
Rule of thumb:

If someone refers to themself as a "Progressive", they are probably a douchebag.
 
2008-11-24 01:55:16 PM  
FTA
And yet, no one who comes from the part of American political and intellectual life that has given birth to all of these ideas is anywhere to be found within miles of the Obama cabinet thus far. WTF?

Your tears, I drink them.

The best part is, rejecting/ignoring politicians doesn't have to start with the election cycle. You can make them all go away right now!
 
2008-11-24 01:56:51 PM  

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: If someone refers to themself as a "Progressive", they are probably a douchebag.


But you don't. Doesn't that test the rule?
 
2008-11-24 01:57:34 PM  

MasterThief: Hi, welcome back. It's November 2009. Records indicate that you were cryogenically frozen back in December 2006. You have a lot of catching up to do.


Hi. It's 2008, and yor'e wrong.
 
2008-11-24 01:58:41 PM  
This is the inverse of Pat Buchanan whining about George W. Bush.

Becuase Obama will be the Democrats W. Get ready for it.
 
2008-11-24 01:59:41 PM  
www.pambanana.com

What passes for "progressive" in mainstream American politics would be considered just left of fascist in many countries.
 
2008-11-24 02:01:36 PM  
i13.photobucket.com

Obama redistributed my bike.
 
2008-11-24 02:02:53 PM  
Obama first rose to national prominence in the speech he gave at the DNC. Anyone remember that speech? It got quite a lot of press coverage at the time. Here's a fairly famous snippet:

Now even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything goes.

Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America; there's the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

The pundits, the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue States: red states for Republicans, blue States for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the blue states, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the red states.

We coach little league in the blue states and, yes, we've got some gay friends in the red states.

(APPLAUSE)

There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq, and there are patriots who supported the war in Iraq.

We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.


Anyone who thought after that that Obama was looking to be the Democratic Party's next Hubert Humphrey or George McGovern was apparently living in the "I'm utterly tone deaf" States of America.

The guy is, by character and conviction, a cautious centrist. Apparently that "OMG he's a socialist" BS also took in a few left wing progressives.
 
2008-11-24 02:03:07 PM  
Obama's doing the right thing here. Bush brought in cronies and yes-men and turned the Oval Office into a giant echo chamber. By contrast, Obama is looking at ability first, politics later. This is a great thing, and is exactly why I voted for Obama. "Change we need," indeed.
 
2008-11-24 02:03:13 PM  
And subby would know, being a cocksucker...
 
2008-11-24 02:03:19 PM  

DeltaXi65: burndtdan: well, the push to get off of foreign oil back in the 70s springs to mind.

You mean when Richard Nixon said it?


Well, by many standards Nixon was a liberal. He created the EPA, OSHA, began affirmative action at the Federal level and wanted to create a living wage and universal health care.
 
2008-11-24 02:04:06 PM  

HeartBurnKid: By contrast, Obama is looking at ability first, politics later.


Yeah...I don't think Obama wants a "Heckuva job, Brownie" moment on his hands.
 
2008-11-24 02:04:17 PM  

BKITU: WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN FOR THE LAST YEAR?!?


Aw, it IS only 2008. I was hoping I'd be able to do the whole "WELCOME... TO THE WORLD OF TOMOROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!" bit.
 
2008-11-24 02:06:01 PM  

Aarontology: Well, by many standards Nixon was a liberal. He created the EPA, OSHA, began affirmative action at the Federal level and wanted to create a living wage and universal health care.


You mean Nixon HAD to do all that good because of all the actual liberals rattling their cages and causing trouble through protest and resistance.

Like Nixon really gave a sh*t about any of that progress...
 
2008-11-24 02:08:42 PM  
And if he granted them the positions, I'm sure subby would be just fine with that and giving Obama his compliments.

And if I painted my testicles green, they'd be sour persimmons.
 
2008-11-24 02:08:42 PM  

DeltaXi65: There aren't a lot of progressives that can be taken seriously and that have any experience in the executive branch. So that's why they're not showing up. The only one I expect to see in the cabinet will be David Bonior at Labor.


Bonior or Gephardt would make sense in that spot. Neither of them "The Nation" progressives, perhaps.

For an experienced, smart, and pretty left Obama supporter, I'm a little sad not to see Robert Reich getting any love, yet.
 
2008-11-24 02:11:42 PM  
Umm... perhaps he's doing this so it all evens out to Moderate? Ideologues are not what this country needs, especially now.
 
2008-11-24 02:13:06 PM  

MadCat221: Umm... perhaps he's doing this so it all evens out to Moderate?


Great...hope he's not basing his strategy on the P.I.T.A.

Hillary, Richardson, DAVID DUKE?!
 
2008-11-24 02:13:30 PM  
Remember this is the movement that was right about Iraq, right about wage stagnation and inequality, right about financial deregulation, right about global warming and right about health care.

Is that so?
 
2008-11-24 02:13:49 PM  
HA-HA!

My messiah kicked your messiah's ass.
 
2008-11-24 02:14:10 PM  
The big progressive stuff will, in time, come.

Right now, though, let's focus on making things not suck.
 
2008-11-24 02:14:39 PM  

Mugato: farking explain the Messiah thing or stop using it. It sounds farking retarded.


No shiat. The only people calling Obama "The Messiah" are bitter Republican douchebags who refuse to face the fact that their candidates sucked.
 
2008-11-24 02:15:03 PM  

whidbey: Aarontology: Well, by many standards Nixon was a liberal. He created the EPA, OSHA, began affirmative action at the Federal level and wanted to create a living wage and universal health care.

You mean Nixon HAD to do all that good because of all the actual liberals rattling their cages and causing trouble through protest and resistance.

Like Nixon really gave a sh*t about any of that progress...


Regardless of his intentions, he did push for them to be passed. Unlike the current "What? The other side suggested something? Not only are we not going to listen, but we're going to vilify your beliefs as being unAmerican!" nonsense.

I do think he was very serious about the universal health care thing though. His brothers died of TB because they couldn't pay for medication, and hHe first called for it in 1947 when he was a congressman
 
2008-11-24 02:16:24 PM  
FTA:

Remember this is the movement that was right about Iraq, right about wage stagnation and inequality, right about financial deregulation, right about global warming and right about health care.

He is actually claiming the far left movement was right about all this stuff. Half the things he mentions are unprovable. The only one that you can throw in as "being right on" is Iraq.
 
2008-11-24 02:17:08 PM  

AspectRatio: Mugato: farking explain the Messiah thing or stop using it. It sounds farking retarded.

No shiat. The only people calling Obama "The Messiah" are bitter Republican douchebags who refuse to face the fact that their candidates sucked.


Of course. Anyone who disagrees with them has to be brainwashed into the position through cult-like conditioning.

/Hail Mary, full of grace....
//Hail Mary, full of grace....
///Hail Mary, full of grace....
////Our Father, who art in Heaven.....
//Our Father, who art in Heaven....
 
2008-11-24 02:18:10 PM  

Aarontology: Well, by many standards Nixon was a liberal. He created the EPA, OSHA, began affirmative action at the Federal level and wanted to create a living wage and universal health care.


Every single one of those policies was created to benefit the middle class. I find it terribly interesting how anything not designed to benefit the wealthy is "liberal" in the US.
 
2008-11-24 02:19:34 PM  

Mugato: farking explain the Messiah thing or stop using it. It sounds farking retarded.


We actually like our President-Elect, therefore, we worship him.

It's been so long that the majority of people voted FOR someone instead of AGAINST the other guy that we're having a hard time adjusting to the idea.

But don't bring up the Reagan worship thing. That was totally different.
 
2008-11-24 02:22:34 PM  
Geez, people. Just wait until Obama's second term. He only has so much political capital to spend if he wants to get reelected.
 
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