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(CNN)   Citigroup may get something from the government that it never gives its own customers: a do-over   (money.cnn.com) divider line 58
    More: Ironic  
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1029 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Nov 2008 at 4:11 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-11-24 01:41:33 AM
Seriously, these idiots wanted to take over Wachovia but couldn't make sure their own house was in order?
 
2008-11-24 02:35:13 AM
johnsoninca: Seriously, these idiots wanted to take over Wachovia but couldn't make sure their own house was in order?

It's okay, because they knew the government would step in to bail them out if they acted irresponsibly.
 
2008-11-24 04:20:45 AM
johnsoninca: Seriously, these idiots wanted to take over Wachovia but couldn't make sure their own house was in order?

I will be sure to email my representation in Washington my displeasure. The hubris of these bankers is getting silly.

\of course Musgrave has vanished apparently.
 
2008-11-24 04:22:38 AM
i101.photobucket.com


It

Is

Not

Too

Late

 
2008-11-24 04:23:16 AM
to buy
 
2008-11-24 04:27:12 AM
johnsoninca
Seriously, these idiots wanted to take over Wachovia but couldn't make sure their own house was in order?

This was a do-over of the Wachovia takeover. Look at the terms again. Same deal, more or less.
 
2008-11-24 04:32:24 AM
I am so confused - why do they continue to throw moneys into the banks but will not loan moneys to the auto industry???? Can someone please explain this??

I am actually against supporting either group but, at least, the auto industry MAKES SOMETHING.
 
2008-11-24 04:38:50 AM
White House unaware of Citi talks.

d.yimg.com

US President George W. Bush drinks a traditional pisco sour. A source of national pride among party-loving Peruvians, the tart, frothy beverage that packs a punch has repeatedly taken center-stage at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum's gathering in the capital Lima.
(AFP/Martin Bernetti)


3 parts pisco brandy
1 1/2 parts lemon juice
1 - 2 tbsp sugar

And he claimed it was only Wall Street that got drunk.
 
2008-11-24 04:47:33 AM
Wild Eyed and Wicked: I am so confused - why do they continue to throw moneys into the banks but will not loan moneys to the auto industry???? Can someone please explain this??


The Rothschildren of the world have more pull than auto C.E.O.s?

Wild Eyed and Wicked: I am actually against supporting either group but, at least, the auto industry MAKES SOMETHING.

Statement. Word! Letter.
 
2008-11-24 05:00:50 AM
Wild Eyed and Wicked: I am actually against supporting either group but, at least, the auto industry MAKES SOMETHING.

The problem is that the auto industry is unable to deliver a product the customers either want or can afford, meaning that throwing money at them just means that there will be more unsold vehicles around.

The only possible exception is perhaps Hummer, as a GM branch, which gets to resupply the army with replacements for vehicles blown up. And since it's a product developed for the army, it usually costs quite a lot more than R&D and production per unit, often covering the expenses before 2/3 of the initial order of a contract is delivered. (At least according to what I remember from Warprofiteering 101.)

Wanna make money? Create a product that can be painted green and sold to the army. It's just about the only somewhat secure branch in the world at the moment.
 
2008-11-24 05:06:29 AM
Cornwell: Wild Eyed and Wicked: I am actually against supporting either group but, at least, the auto industry MAKES SOMETHING.

The problem is that the auto industry is unable to deliver a product the customers either want or can afford, meaning that throwing money at them just means that there will be more unsold vehicles around.

The only possible exception is perhaps Hummer, as a GM branch, which gets to resupply the army with replacements for vehicles blown up. And since it's a product developed for the army, it usually costs quite a lot more than R&D and production per unit, often covering the expenses before 2/3 of the initial order of a contract is delivered. (At least according to what I remember from Warprofiteering 101.)

Wanna make money? Create a product that can be painted green and sold to the army. It's just about the only somewhat secure branch in the world at the moment.


I agree - the offerings of the big 3 suck at this point. I am unsure if GM and Chrysler can be turned around with the money and wonder if they should be allowed to flounder. Ford is another story - they might be in good enought shape (barely) to pull themselves out of this.

Used to be in automotive and getting a kick, etc...I am still pissed off over AIG and the $700 billion dollar bailout so I am taking this crap a little hard right now.
 
2008-11-24 05:22:45 AM
Wild Eyed and Wicked: I am so confused - why do they continue to throw moneys into the banks but will not loan moneys to the auto industry???? Can someone please explain this??
There is little reason to believe that you would not be throwing money at the auto companies all of next year, and beyond, until either they got right or survived until things get turned around, or are sold off in parts.
Unlike Citibank, which we will only be throwing money at all of next year until they get right or survive until things get turned around, or are sold off in parts.

And, the auto companies got into this mess through years of bad investments and business plans, while Citibank got into this through years of bad investments and business plans.

Really, it's all quite clear. And hey, we're only supporting 90% of the $300B in assets, with Citi covering the first $30B. So we're out, what, max ~$240B. That's nothing!

Hmmm - another $20B invested, plus $240B in guarantees, and we get ~$8B in preferred shares? Who wants to bet on hearing them using corporate jets and throwing costly events?

I am actually against supporting either group but, at least, the auto industry MAKES SOMETHING.
Mediocre products? Hey, if they can reasonably say that they can turn around and improve by 2010, sure. Maybe even 2011. They'll get the money in January anyhow, but I don't have faith in a plan from them.
 
2008-11-24 05:52:12 AM
Did Citibank execs fly to Washington in their private jets to ask for this handout? Y'know, keeping up with the Joneses and all.....
 
2008-11-24 06:27:04 AM
Wild Eyed and Wicked: I am so confused - why do they continue to throw moneys into the banks but will not loan moneys to the auto industry???? Can someone please explain this??

I am actually against supporting either group but, at least, the auto industry MAKES SOMETHING.


Throwing money into the auto industry is a stupid idea. Then again, so is throwing money at the banks. Obviously the government is compirsed of idiots.
 
2008-11-24 06:40:42 AM
That's it I'm boycotting money. I offer 1 chicken a month for a TF account.
 
2008-11-24 07:01:04 AM
Money is truly becoming a useless tool...with it being massively watered down by the Fed.


We'll be back to the barter system before too long.
 
2008-11-24 07:05:14 AM
So, I have a Citicard (credit, not debit). How does this affect me (if at all)?
 
2008-11-24 07:12:16 AM
dokool: So, I have a Citicard (credit, not debit). How does this affect me (if at all)?

Your rate remains the same, if not higher. The only difference is that when Citigroup comes to repo your firstborn, the government owns a share in him too, and not only Citigroup.
 
2008-11-24 07:23:47 AM
dokool: So, I have a Citicard (credit, not debit). How does this affect me (if at all)?

I just got a letter from Citi letting me know they are changing the terms of my card. Defaulting on the card (missing a payment, etc) means 23.99 or 29.99% APR. I have the option to opt-out, meaning if I don't like the terms the account will close within a year at which time the full amount is due. While I don't have to worry about defaulting, I'm glad I recently transferred half the balance to a 0% deal with another company (then again, maybe that prompted the change).
 
2008-11-24 07:36:27 AM
How long can the government keep up all this bailout bullshiat? Seems like we can't go much longer without a federal financial crisis. At some point the people buying those treasury notes are going to have to say "wait, how are they going to pay this back?"

And then we're really farked.
 
2008-11-24 07:58:08 AM
BOOOOOOOO, Just this... BOOOOOOOOOOO

this is wrong in so many ways. I want to slap our government.
 
2008-11-24 08:07:27 AM
choice and consequence: How long can the government keep up all this bailout bullshiat? Seems like we can't go much longer without a federal financial crisis. At some point the people buying those treasury notes are going to have to say "wait, how are they going to pay this back?"

Nah, the great question is: "When a government has to foreclose, who are the new owners?"
 
2008-11-24 08:08:48 AM
Typical GOP .. screw the poor.
 
2008-11-24 08:27:00 AM
Man, it would have made more sense to force Citigroup to go bankrupt have the FDIC insure trillions of dollars in customer assets. Stupid government!
 
2008-11-24 08:38:54 AM
I love it. Give the banking and investment sector billions and watch it disappear into corporate parties that cost millions. Auto execs take a private plane to DC. Nope you get nothing. When all is said and done the joke will be on us.
 
2008-11-24 08:49:07 AM
choice and consequence: How long can the government keep up all this bailout bullshiat? Seems like we can't go much longer without a federal financial crisis. At some point the people buying those treasury notes are going to have to say "wait, how are they going to pay this back?"

And then we're really farked.


We we can no longer finance our selves by simply printing money. The day we actually have to use foreign currency to help fund us we are totally FARKed. Right now we can borrow foreign investors money but in dollars when we are force to borrow in Yuan, Dinars, rupee , pounds, euros, crasados we are totally farked.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5202497.ece

http://www.dni.gov/nic/PDF_2025/2025_Global_Trends_Final_Report.pdf
 
2008-11-24 08:49:26 AM
choice and consequence: How long can the government keep up all this bailout bullshiat? Seems like we can't go much longer without a federal financial crisis. At some point the people buying those treasury notes are going to have to say "wait, how are they going to pay this back?"

And then we're really farked.


They don't have to find purchasers of the Treasuries to print money. They can create it from thin air. The bailout legislation gave the Fed the ability to lower reserve rates to zero if necessary for any bank participating in TARP. I think that's the next step when it becomes evident that this isn't going to do a lot either.

You've got to get rid of the bad debt. You can't just transfer it to the taxpayer.
 
2008-11-24 09:01:03 AM
cltbuilder: White House unaware of Citi talks.



US President George W. Bush drinks a traditional pisco sour. A source of national pride among party-loving Peruvians, the tart, frothy beverage that packs a punch has repeatedly taken center-stage at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum's gathering in the capital Lima.
(AFP/Martin Bernetti)


3 parts pisco brandy
1 1/2 parts lemon juice
1 - 2 tbsp sugar

And he claimed it was only Wall Street that got drunk.


Isn't he supposed to be in recovery or something?
 
2008-11-24 09:10:31 AM
Cornwell: Wild Eyed and Wicked: I am actually against supporting either group but, at least, the auto industry MAKES SOMETHING.

The problem is that the auto industry is unable to deliver a product the customers either want or can afford, meaning that throwing money at them just means that there will be more unsold vehicles around.

The only possible exception is perhaps Hummer, as a GM branch, which gets to resupply the army with replacements for vehicles blown up. And since it's a product developed for the army, it usually costs quite a lot more than R&D and production per unit, often covering the expenses before 2/3 of the initial order of a contract is delivered. (At least according to what I remember from Warprofiteering 101.)

Wanna make money? Create a product that can be painted green and sold to the army. It's just about the only somewhat secure branch in the world at the moment.


What? GM sells the second most vehicles in the world and they sell the most vehicles in north america. They have never had a problem selling vehicles. They have the same problem as any US manufacturer. We pay health care and pension plans. That puts us at a tremendous cost disadvantage. GM pays about $3,000 a vehicle more than Honda or Toyota for Health care and pensions. Selling more cars isn't going to fix shiat. They need to dump those pensions and health care cost. Furthermore, they could also reduce wages and lose some tax liability. Then they would be on a level playing field with the rest of the world. We need to fix the health care cost and pension cost first. The UAW has conceded a lot of that stuff in their latest agreement but it may be a little too late.
 
hng
2008-11-24 09:11:59 AM
Let's Go Mets Go!
 
2008-11-24 09:12:25 AM
cltbuilder: choice and consequence: How long can the government keep up all this bailout bullshiat? Seems like we can't go much longer without a federal financial crisis. At some point the people buying those treasury notes are going to have to say "wait, how are they going to pay this back?"

And then we're really farked.

They don't have to find purchasers of the Treasuries to print money. They can create it from thin air. The bailout legislation gave the Fed the ability to lower reserve rates to zero if necessary for any bank participating in TARP. I think that's the next step when it becomes evident that this isn't going to do a lot either.

You've got to get rid of the bad debt. You can't just transfer it to the taxpayer.


We can only do that as long as the dollar is the primary reserve currency for the world and only then only for so long before it stops being a reserve currency.

We've got tough choices coming up none of them popular or "fair". The era of feel good spending is over no matter which politician empty suit is in office.
 
2008-11-24 09:16:57 AM
This is getting out of hand. They want the government to step in? Seize the company, value the assets, and sell the valuable pieces off to competitors bundling some of the junk with it. The shareholders get screwed? Yeah, well, that's the MARKET for you.

The other option is bankruptcy, pick your poison.

The same goes for the car companies. For 30+ years those morons in Detroit didn't bother to fully fund their pensions. Hence why the average GM, Ford, and Chrysler UAW union worker "makes" ~US$75/hr. That is a complete failure of management, and while the unions didn't help, they're not the ones whom decided not to fully fund the pension system. Then again if the union had taken a pay cut it just would have just gone on to become a dividend and executive bonuses anyway. Why would management bother fixing the problem?
 
2008-11-24 09:19:57 AM
img510.imageshack.us

Yay that's me on the sky news website.
 
2008-11-24 09:22:12 AM
Wild Eyed and Wicked: I am so confused - why do they continue to throw moneys into the banks but will not loan moneys to the auto industry???? Can someone please explain this??

I am actually against supporting either group but, at least, the auto industry MAKES SOMETHING.


I'm pretty sure it has to do with the fact that the banks got in line first. Now that everyone has seen what Execs would do with our money (not like it was a big surprise or anything), they're a little more hesitant to give it out. Don't worry though - the auto industry has enough people paid off to get their bailout in January. I'm just happy that I can fork over my hard earned paycheck to people that are gonna piss it down a tube.
 
2008-11-24 09:23:06 AM
barnacleboy: Yay that's me on the sky news website.

Does your mother know the truth about what you do for a living?
 
2008-11-24 09:27:21 AM
barnacleboy: Yay that's me on the sky news website.

Evidence of a farker actually working? Blasphemy. Admit it, you're speaking into your answering machine talking to your cats.
 
2008-11-24 09:27:56 AM
socialism is the worst form of government to ever exist in the history of the world.
 
2008-11-24 09:28:07 AM
opiumpoopy: barnacleboy: Yay that's me on the sky news website.

Does your mother know the truth about what you do for a living?


Yup
 
2008-11-24 09:29:02 AM
sirgrim: barnacleboy: Yay that's me on the sky news website.

Evidence of a farker actually working? Blasphemy. Admit it, you're speaking into your answering machine talking to your cats.


Lol nah, was probably on here
 
2008-11-24 09:31:27 AM
well, 2 things...

I got a letter in the mail on fri that said Citi was increasing my credit card interest rate for purchases to 24.99% after no missed payments. Ive never missed a payment on anything in my life.

Also, I just got an email today offering me 0% until 2010 for all transferred balances TO my citibank card.

Your guess is as good as mine! I dont know what the hell is happening.
 
2008-11-24 09:34:41 AM
BEER_ME_in_CT: well, 2 things...

I got a letter in the mail on fri that said Citi was increasing my credit card interest rate for purchases to 24.99% after no missed payments. Ive never missed a payment on anything in my life.

Also, I just got an email today offering me 0% until 2010 for all transferred balances TO my citibank card.

Your guess is as good as mine! I dont know what the hell is happening.


Citi just divided by 0?
 
2008-11-24 09:39:00 AM
A couple quick points. 1. If the banking system fails, so does the rest of the economy. Even if the detroit three made cars that run on magic, how many people can afford paying cash for them? Citigroup literally holds trillions in assets.

2. This restructuring will change the terms on tens, if not hundreds of thousands of mortgages, which will hopefully reduce the strain on the economy.

3. Citigroup employs more people and GM and Chrysler combined.

/not happy about any of it
 
2008-11-24 09:43:59 AM
Can I start not paying them now?

\Everybody else is doing it why can't I?
 
2008-11-24 09:44:14 AM
BEER_ME_in_CT: well, 2 things...

I got a letter in the mail on fri that said Citi was increasing my credit card interest rate for purchases to 24.99% after no missed payments. Ive never missed a payment on anything in my life.

Also, I just got an email today offering me 0% until 2010 for all transferred balances TO my citibank card.

Your guess is as good as mine! I dont know what the hell is happening.


They are too big to fail function properly?
 
2008-11-24 10:00:40 AM
I'm beginning to think that the only money the government should have spent was on pitchforks, torches, and propaganda to make sure the citizens only go after the banks.
 
2008-11-24 10:04:47 AM
BEER_ME_in_CT: well, 2 things...

I got a letter in the mail on fri that said Citi was increasing my credit card interest rate for purchases to 24.99% after no missed payments. Ive never missed a payment on anything in my life.

Also, I just got an email today offering me 0% until 2010 for all transferred balances TO my citibank card.

Your guess is as good as mine! I dont know what the hell is happening.


Me too on both. You may want to double check the first -- the new rate applies if you default (miss a payment, go over your limit, etc) -- at least that's the letter I got. The second was an email for 0% for a year or two years if I made $100 in purchases within the first 3 months. Nice try. Bearing in mind the first letter, I'm pretty sure they are trying to play the odds and snag anyone in a bad situation, get them to transfer based on the 0% rate, then hope they default so they can jack them back up to 30%. The extra year for making purchases? Yeh, those purchases have the APR applied as normal and since your payments get spread evenly across your balances, you'll end up paying an arm and a leg even on $100.
 
2008-11-24 10:08:35 AM
GoodyearPimp: dokool: So, I have a Citicard (credit, not debit). How does this affect me (if at all)?

I just got a letter from Citi letting me know they are changing the terms of my card. Defaulting on the card (missing a payment, etc) means 23.99 or 29.99% APR. I have the option to opt-out, meaning if I don't like the terms the account will close within a year at which time the full amount is due. While I don't have to worry about defaulting, I'm glad I recently transferred half the balance to a 0% deal with another company (then again, maybe that prompted the change).



So essentially I want to pay off the card and never use it again. If I catch your drift.
 
2008-11-24 10:19:48 AM
Cornwell: Wanna make money? Create a product that can be painted green brown and sold to the army. It's just about the only somewhat secure branch in the world at the moment.

FTFY

www.hummerguy.net
/hot like a middle eastern desert
 
2008-11-24 10:36:42 AM
barnacleboy: Yay that's me on the sky news website.

You're a plant?
 
2008-11-24 10:39:41 AM
So they get are giving all the idiots that ran their own companies into the ground lending money more money, but the people that make cars and ran their companies into the ground get nothing. I am against both but if I had to do anything it would not even be in that order. Why have a middle man at all? Socialist lending would make more sense.
 
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