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(Minnesota Public Radio)   A sampling of contested ballots in the Coleman/Franken recount. Subby wishes his vote for "Lizard People" had been more clear   (minnesota.publicradio.org) divider line
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5397 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Nov 2008 at 7:52 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-11-21 03:57:04 AM  
The vote(s) for "Lizard People" was funny.
Some of those that both sides challenged were quite obvious who they voted for.
 
2008-11-21 04:00:30 AM  
See what happens when you let lizard people vote? Next thing you know, they're running for office.
 
2008-11-21 04:06:00 AM  
Having worked in this election business before why the hell are those ballots so complicated?

I know here in Canada it's a simple sheet with the names of the candidates and big boxes next to the name. If you want to vote for them just simply draw something in the box. Then you have your vote counted.

However it is clear for some of the ballots such as #1,2,5, 8, 9 and 10 who the person is voting for. #4, 7, and 11 are the only ones that it isn't clear what the person is going for.
 
2008-11-21 04:15:03 AM  

Canadian Canuck: Having worked in this election business before why the hell are those ballots so complicated?

I know here in Canada it's a simple sheet with the names of the candidates and big boxes next to the name. If you want to vote for them just simply draw something in the box. Then you have your vote counted.

However it is clear for some of the ballots such as #1,2,5, 8, 9 and 10 who the person is voting for. #4, 7, and 11 are the only ones that it isn't clear what the person is going for.


Blame an outmoded voting method. Minnesota obviously uses optical scanners to speed up the process.

For it to count, the oval needs to be filled in correctly-else there could be a miscount. Event the smudges or an accidental line could be read incorrectly and thus the vote is discarded, at first.

Most of the time amount of discarded ballots will not affect an outcome.

To me...

Anything with both ovals filled in needs to be thrown out.

Anything with a smudge but otherwise properly filled out should be counted.

Anything with an X or a partially filled hole should be counted for whomever the vote is for.

Lizard People votes should be counted for the Lizard People.
 
2008-11-21 04:16:31 AM  
Waiting to take office:

rayboy.orgView Full Size


/hotlinked for her pleasure
 
2008-11-21 04:27:07 AM  
I JUST submitted this with pretty much the same headline. I'm glad one of us brought Lizard People to Fark.

minnesota.publicradio.orgView Full Size


WTF.

It's easily within the realm of possibility that the election comes down to THIS idiot's ballot. (Which will be disqualified.)
 
2008-11-21 04:35:41 AM  
At least they weren't voting for the Crap People, then we'd all have to watch "Queer Eye" all day long.
 
2008-11-21 04:39:39 AM  

bobbette: I JUST submitted this with pretty much the same headline. I'm glad one of us brought Lizard People to Fark.


It is useless to resist the lizard people. We They will rule all, from the U.S. Senate to the submission queue here at Fark.com. I'm glad people are finally recognizing the truth.
 
2008-11-21 04:45:40 AM  
This election will be won with sarcasm.
 
2008-11-21 05:00:40 AM  

skinbubble:
Some of those that both sides challenged were quite obvious who they voted for.


Everything that isn't absolutely straightforward, the candidate's representative has a responsibility to challenge that. It's true that some things might seem frivolous and unreasonable, but each of these votes is important, and if there's a disqualification, it will make a difference in this race because it's so tight. That's why both camps will err on the side of challenging the ballot. These ballots haven't been rejected - they've been set aside to be examined later by the state canvassing board starting on December 16, with the candidate's representatives making a case for why each ballot should be counted. That ensures that there will be greater scrutiny and also, likely a more standardized process for determining the status of all questionable ballots. It's a good recount process, very fair and transparent.

I looked over the Minnesota recount guide, and their guide for the recount states that all ballots with marks for more than one candidate should be disqualified.

Looks like because Minnesota has a very straightforward voting system (although, several ballot designs - WTF), the main fight will be over what a proper mark is, on ballots like this one:
minnesota.publicradio.orgView Full Size


The question will be, is this a valid mark for Franken - which would disqualify this ballot because two candidates are marked. It could be argued that the voter's intent is for Coleman because the mark for Coleman is bigger, which Coleman's people will obviously try to argue. (Probably that is the case - that someone started marking the wrong circle, and then fully filled out the one they intended to fill out.) But this voter screwed up and the mark for Franken is way too substantial. Voter intent can be hinted at but not clearly determined. It should be rejected, according to Minnesota's rules. By the way, people, if you ever make a mistake on a ballot and have any kind of mark in the wrong place, just tell the polling person. They'll get rid of your original ballot and give you a fresh one, so your vote will be counted. You might feel like a dumbass, but it's better to have your vote counted!

minnesota.publicradio.orgView Full Size


Here's another challenged ballot (by Coleman's people.) I think it could be allowed for Franken. Coleman's team argued that this one has an arrow pointing to the other box. That seems a bit sketchy to me.

So far the challenges are almost equal with just over 400 for each side, which is a good sign for Franken, I think. More of the challenges on the first day were made by Coleman, about 30 more, and Franken's side was equally aggressive with challenges today. If intent can be determined at a margin slightly more favourable to Franken (which I think we can assume, because first-time and older and lower-income voters are more likely to make errors) Franken has a good shot. However, we'll see over the next week or so as the 54% of outstanding results come in. I definitely expect more votes for Franken. However, can he get 129 votes or even a slim margin of victory before they start to count the challenged votes?

Also, if you're one of those people who believe "I'm just one in a million voters! It doesn't really matter if I make it out to the polls! Or I can just write in "Lizard People", LOL!" I hope this changes your mind about the power of a single vote. Seriously.

/my prediction: Franken wins it by 8 votes.
//I think I'm one of maybe a thousand people who are vitally interested in how the recount actually goes down. Yay democracy!
 
2008-11-21 05:05:14 AM  

bobbette: //I think I'm one of maybe a thousand people who are vitally interested in how the recount actually goes down. Yay democracy!


Why are the adjacent vote bubbles so well defined?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2008-11-21 05:16:45 AM  
Coleman's team argued that this one has an arrow pointing to the other box.

The arrow extends slightly into the other oval, so it looks like an overvote to me. Failing that Franken has more ink and wins.
 
2008-11-21 05:26:44 AM  
This is why I only scored 1250 on the SATs, instead of 1580.
 
2008-11-21 05:33:17 AM  

ZAZ: Coleman's team argued that this one has an arrow pointing to the other box.

The arrow extends slightly into the other oval, so it looks like an overvote to me. Failing that Franken has more ink and wins.


It could definitely be interpreted as an overvote. (There is also a mark slightly outside the Niemackl oval.) It's all going to depend on how strict the canvassing board is in interpreting competing marks on the ballot. The supposed arrow shape is so nebulous that it could easily be the other way around - someone who accidentally marked a portion of Coleman's oval drawing a line to Franken's to indicate that the vote cast is for Franken, and crossing out part of the Coleman party ID.

I could see it the vote being allowed for Franken, but it's probably more likely that the canvassing board will say it's too ambiguous in terms of voter intent. I don't think there's any way this vote goes for Coleman because there's no crossing out or other marking of the Franken bubble to indicate that it was an error.
 
2008-11-21 05:37:27 AM  
Voting the straight Lizard People ticket is no different than voting for DemoRepublicrats. They're all owned by the cryptofascist commie-capitalists. RON PAUL, however, is owned by the Dino-People.
 
2008-11-21 06:29:39 AM  
Aren't the Lizard People ruled by a King?
 
2008-11-21 06:30:04 AM  
Why do 53,000 people think that the clear vote for Lizard People should count toward Al Franken? Is he a lizard person? Shocking!
 
2008-11-21 07:07:44 AM  
calbert: Aren't the Lizard People ruled by a King?

Yes. Which is why I believe the vote should go for Jim Morrison
 
2008-11-21 07:31:53 AM  
I was amused to see that each time I rendered my amateur verdict on each ballot it went into what looked like a clear majority.

It seems that amongst the 100,000 or so people who have given their opinions on these contested ballots, common sense leads most people to feel he same way about many of the ballots. One or two are truly ambiguous, but most of them seem pretty clear cut.
 
2008-11-21 07:46:15 AM  

bobbette: It's easily within the realm of possibility that the election comes down to THIS idiot's ballot. (Which will be disqualified.)


Doubtful this will be disqualified. The bubble next to "Lizard People" wasn't filled in (the Franken bubble WAS).

/Subby is Hunter S. Thompson?
 
2008-11-21 08:00:42 AM  

The Onanist: bobbette: It's easily within the realm of possibility that the election comes down to THIS idiot's ballot. (Which will be disqualified.)

Doubtful this will be disqualified. The bubble next to "Lizard People" wasn't filled in (the Franken bubble WAS).

/Subby is Hunter S. Thompson?


Or Jim Morrison.

/well, "Lizard King".
 
2008-11-21 08:08:25 AM  
I not Stuart Smiley

Link (new window)

and I'm a lying liar who lies.

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

I approve of any vote in my favor whether or not it subverts democracy.

Link (new window)
 
2008-11-21 08:09:58 AM  
Approves:

mofolandia.com.brView Full Size
 
2008-11-21 08:12:46 AM  
You know, I have no idea how they vote in Minnesota. Are all the ballots handwritten there or do they have voting machines?
 
2008-11-21 08:12:47 AM  
It's hard to design a voting system that overcomes stupid.
 
2008-11-21 08:17:38 AM  
Someone was thinking Soul Caliber
i35.tinypic.comView Full Size

[image from i35.tinypic.com too old to be available]
/Yes I have no life
 
2008-11-21 08:17:41 AM  
Some of these idiots could have just asked for another ballot to start over.
 
2008-11-21 08:19:40 AM  

FredaDeStilleto: calbert: Aren't the Lizard People ruled by a King?

Yes. Which is why I believe the vote should go for Jim Morrison


Oh Snap!
 
2008-11-21 08:27:23 AM  
Fark IndependentsTM = Lizard People?
 
2008-11-21 08:27:40 AM  
[image from usmagazine.com too old to be available]
I believe she's more of a dragon-lady than a lizard person, but still...
 
2008-11-21 08:27:54 AM  

Sun God: This is why I only scored 1250 on the SATs, instead of 1580.


Remember, the answer is never "Lizard People."
 
2008-11-21 08:30:42 AM  

The Third Man: Sun God: This is why I only scored 1250 on the SATs, instead of 1580.

Remember, the answer is never "Lizard People."


Lizard people give you lupus.
 
2008-11-21 08:30:44 AM  
Sorry Stuart, you're not good enough.
farm3.static.flickr.comView Full Size
 
2008-11-21 08:39:00 AM  
[image from imperial-library.info too old to be available]

The Argonian community thanks you for your support.
 
2008-11-21 08:41:18 AM  
How hard is it to fill in a god damn bubble people? Jesus. I say throw out the shiatty one because they were to stupid to realize that you need to at least make it into the bubble. God people are dumb.
 
2008-11-21 08:42:12 AM  
What distubs me the most is that these same people who were unable to operate a #2 pencil then left the voting booth and strapped themselves into the controlling position of 4,000+ lb. steel boxes that can be propelled at speeds up to 100+ mph.
 
2008-11-21 08:48:40 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: What distubs me the most is that these same people who were unable to operate a #2 pencil then left the voting booth and strapped themselves into the controlling position of 4,000+ lb. steel boxes that can be propelled at speeds up to 100+ mph.


They could just write NO on your car after you're dead and not be charged with manslaughter.
 
2008-11-21 08:51:56 AM  

Sun God: bobbette: //I think I'm one of maybe a thousand people who are vitally interested in how the recount actually goes down. Yay democracy!

Why are the adjacent vote bubbles so well defined?


This is troubling to me as well. Excepting the lizard party, these people had no trouble filling out the rest of the ballot properly.
 
2008-11-21 08:53:53 AM  

Slaxl: Why do 53,000 people think that the clear vote for Lizard People should count toward Al Franken? Is he a lizard person? Shocking!


Because despite writing in Lizard people, they failed to mark the oval next to it.
 
2008-11-21 08:56:25 AM  
Doublek111
3 links to powerline blog and an op-ed piece in the WSJ? Not so much.

Thanks for playing. Please try again.

\voted for Barkley
 
2008-11-21 09:03:31 AM  
there's only one way for those ballots to be useful: sterilize the people who submitted them
 
2008-11-21 09:03:31 AM  
did that one person vote for Coleman and then try to write in Michelle Bachman for Senate? Or does that say "Bad Men"?

Because anyone who doesn't know the difference between a Senator and a Congresswoman should not be allowed to have their vote count.

However, if it says "Bad Men", it's at least amusing.
 
2008-11-21 09:06:47 AM  
Canadian Canuck:

It wasn't the ballots which was the problem -- it was mostly people effing up and trying to correct their mistakes. Sometimes you have a brain fart. When folks are underlining the name they want, or printing 'NO' next to the one they don't want, or x'ing out their choice....... it should have been 'clear'. I mean, one person even drew an arrow.

I guess it's not so clear only if someone wants to accuse someone else after the fact of tampering with the vote -- like erasures after the fact, x'ing out after the fact, cross outs after the fact........... that would be serious business. If a claim like that is to be made, everyone who had contact with the ballot, even remotedly, should be charged.

I couldn't tell from the article I read on this yesterday if I had just read wrong, or if those were photocopies and that's why there was a problem (there was a specific statement made about the ballot with pencil mark, why it should or should not count, and photocopying).

And I'm still trying to figure out how the one guy got so much ink on his hand that he left FINGERPRINTS.

Or people drawing circles around the black marks outside the box instead of filling in the ovals. Were people doing this on purpose, or was there a language barrier problem?
 
2008-11-21 09:10:01 AM  

moothemagiccow: Sun God: bobbette: //I think I'm one of maybe a thousand people who are vitally interested in how the recount actually goes down. Yay democracy!

Why are the adjacent vote bubbles so well defined?

This is troubling to me as well. Excepting the lizard party, these people had no trouble filling out the rest of the ballot properly.


This. (Except we aren't seeing the full ballots, so no telling what else is happening with the ballots. Still.. this is troubling).
 
2008-11-21 09:11:13 AM  

Aliquis: You know, I have no idea how they vote in Minnesota. Are all the ballots handwritten there or do they have voting machines?


It is like a scantron system... You fill in the ballots by hand and a machine counts them.
 
2008-11-21 09:11:28 AM  
I spilled coffee on a ballot once. I muttered an explicative to myself, walked over to the 95 year old election worker and asked if it would count. She shielded her eyes from my ballot as if seeing who I voted for would blind her, and told me that any marks I made would invalidate my vote, and gave me another ballot while shredding my coffee stained original.

It's not that hard. If you accidentally the whole ballot, just get another one.
 
MFL
2008-11-21 09:13:36 AM  
We should trade Minnesota to Canada for a few hundred French-Canadian strippers.

/they are the bomb
 
2008-11-21 09:14:32 AM  

FredaDeStilleto: calbert: Aren't the Lizard People ruled by a King?

Yes. Which is why I believe the vote should go for Jim Morrison


golf clap
 
2008-11-21 09:15:10 AM  

what_now: Because anyone who doesn't know the difference between a Senator and a Congresswoman should not be allowed to have their vote count.


Anyone who doesn't know the name of the person they are voting for shouldn't be allowed to vote in that race.
 
2008-11-21 09:25:00 AM  

MFL: We should trade Minnesota to Canada for a few hundred French-Canadian strippers.

/they are the bomb


I'd take that deal

/Minnesotan
 
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