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(LA Times)   Anti-war groups increasingly concerned by Obama's appointees and want people to speak up about it. "There's so much Obama hero worship, we're having to walk this line where we can't directly criticize him."   (latimes.com) divider line 182
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1074 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Nov 2008 at 2:27 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-11-20 11:38:48 AM  
I am a strong supporter of Obama, but I hope people come to understand that withholding criticism was just for the lead up to the election, and that it's open season on the man now.
 
2008-11-20 11:46:58 AM  
keiverarrow: I am a strong supporter of Obama, but I hope people come to understand that withholding criticism was just for the lead up to the election, and that it's open season on the man now.

Good luck with that.
 
2008-11-20 11:52:23 AM  
Criticize all you like, but if you could hold off the criticism until 1) he's actually President, and 2) they actually begin to implement some policy changes, then your criticism will be more effective.
 
2008-11-20 11:58:18 AM  
keiverarrow: I am a strong supporter of Obama, but I hope people come to understand that withholding criticism was just for the lead up to the election, and that it's open season on the man now.

Yep. We'll have to basically ignore the dipshiat neocons who have proven that their criticism is based on nothing but a desire for revenge, but citizens who actually care about the country should have their say.
 
2008-11-20 11:58:25 AM  
Um, this is mother-f*ckin' America! Of course, you can criticize him.

I think the problem with ANYBODY who complains about being unable to criticize a politician is that he really wants to be able to criticize the politician without anyone objecting. The whole point is that you say something, someone objects, then you defend your position. People are so godddamned lazy.
 
2008-11-20 11:58:48 AM  
I for one am not-yet-appalled by the not-yet-policy that this not-yet-president has not-yet-made.
 
2008-11-20 12:47:58 PM  
the_pgoat

Even though I agree with everything you say, I will not raise a finger to defend your right to say it.

Or something like that.
 
2008-11-20 01:01:21 PM  
keiverarrow
Shouldn't it have been open season from the beginning? Shouldn't people have known who they were voting for before he was elected.
 
2008-11-20 01:06:59 PM  
If you think one president -- any president -- can fulfill all your wishes and desires to your complete satisfaction, well, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I have the utmost hope and enthusiasm about Obama, but I'm also realistic.
 
2008-11-20 01:59:41 PM  
Diogenes: If you think one president -- any president -- can fulfill all your wishes and desires to your complete satisfaction, well, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I have the utmost hope and enthusiasm about Obama, but I'm also realistic.


Wait, you mean he's not going to pay my mortgage and power bill??

I WAS ROBBED
 
2008-11-20 02:19:50 PM  
king_nacho: keiverarrow
Shouldn't it have been open season from the beginning? Shouldn't people have known who they were voting for before he was elected.


Yeah, I'm afraid Obama may start a tradition wherein political aspirants make broad, grand, optimistic promises and then don't actually follow through on them to the letter. Oh, what a dangerous new precedent that would be.
 
2008-11-20 02:24:02 PM  
If you read any good history of the United States, the fact always stays the same--no matter how good the candidate looks on paper, he'll always do something wrong while in office. It's just a question of how wrong. And by wrong, I mean how much he rewards his corporate masters.
 
2008-11-20 02:26:27 PM  
Lando Lincoln: Criticize all you like, but if you could hold off the criticism until 1) he's actually President, and 2) they actually begin to implement some policy changes, then your criticism will be more effective.

Isn't the criticizism about appointments he is rightfully going ahead with before he takes the actual office? Obama is not delivering on the anti-war message like he was before the banking collapse took center stage.
 
2008-11-20 02:29:42 PM  
Diogenes: If you think one president -- any president -- can fulfill all your wishes and desires to your complete satisfaction, well, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

This is bad news for the First Ladies.
 
2008-11-20 02:32:35 PM  
I'll definitely be critical of obama....once he is president and once he starts to govern. Until then, it seems silly....like sour grapes.

/voted for Obama
//rooting for the guy.
 
2008-11-20 02:32:38 PM  
Obama was never an anti-war candidate beyond his initial senate race. No Democrat was. Now that the election is over, maybe you people can actually discuss the matter instead of hemming and hawing about concern trolls and Fark IndependentsTM
 
2008-11-20 02:33:02 PM  
Lando Lincoln: Criticize all you like, but if you could hold off the criticism until 1) he's actually President, and 2) they actually begin to implement some policy changes, then your criticism will be more effective.

How can we have instant gratification if we have to wait till January? No fair!!
 
2008-11-20 02:34:05 PM  
Of course his cabinet contains people who voted for the Iraq War. Practically EVERYBODY freaking voted for the Iraq War. He'd have to fill his cabinet with Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, and Dennis Kucinich to satisfy the anti-war groups.
 
2008-11-20 02:34:07 PM  
Umm did these people not notice the tons of times Obama said he would send more troops to Afghanistan?

Which I agree with.
 
2008-11-20 02:34:16 PM  
Balderdash!

Not only can you directly criticize him, you should!

He's the bloody PRESIDENT, the most powerful elected office in the country, perhaps the world! He should his every action scrutinized, analyzed and criticized from every angle and at every opportunity!

/Provided it's legitimate criticism and not tinfoil-hat nonsense like this "birth certificate" garbage!
 
2008-11-20 02:35:34 PM  
king_nacho: keiverarrow
Shouldn't it have been open season from the beginning? Shouldn't people have known who they were voting for before he was elected.


In this day and age of technological advancement how hard is it find information about the guy?
 
2008-11-20 02:37:21 PM  
Corvus: Umm did these people not notice the tons of times Obama said he would send more troops to Afghanistan?

The thing is, they're talking about less than 10k more troops for Afghanistan. Yet Mr. Obama voted to send 30,000 more troops to Iraq while they were asking for it. The things that make you say hmmmm...
 
2008-11-20 02:37:24 PM  
Shaggy_C: Obama was never an anti-war candidate beyond his initial senate race.

I don't want an "anti-war" President...
I want a "pro-sensibility" President!
 
2008-11-20 02:37:40 PM  
Lando Lincoln: Criticize all you like, but if you could hold off the criticism until 1) he's actually President, and 2) they actually begin to implement some policy changes, then your criticism will be more effective.

why should you wait till he's president before you criticize his picks for staff and cabinet?
 
2008-11-20 02:37:52 PM  
FTFA: "Obama ran his campaign around the idea the war was not legitimate, but it sends a very different message when you bring in people who supported the war from the beginning," said Kelly Dougherty, executive director of the 54-chapter Iraq Veterans Against the War.


That's great... but what's their stance now? A lot of people were fired up and looking for blood after 9/11 and the Bush administration sold it pretty hard. Just because they voted for it in 2002 does not mean that:

1) They still think, with the benefit of six years' hindsight, that it was a good idea.

or even

2) That they were 100% sure it was a good idea when they voted for it.


So please, Mr Activist, update your character references and get back to me.
=Smidge=
 
2008-11-20 02:38:20 PM  
Hideously Gigantic Smurf: Shaggy_C: Obama was never an anti-war candidate beyond his initial senate race.

I don't want an "anti-war" President...
I want a "pro-sensibility" President!


Obama has said in the past he isn't anti-war but against dumb ones

/makes sense to me
 
2008-11-20 02:38:31 PM  
Edsel: Of course his cabinet contains people who voted for the Iraq War. Practically EVERYBODY freaking voted for the Iraq War. He'd have to fill his cabinet with Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, and Dennis Kucinich to satisfy the anti-war groups.

DENNIS KUCINICH!
ron paul?
 
2008-11-20 02:38:49 PM  
Hideously Gigantic Smurf: I don't want an "anti-war" President...

I'm glad you can sleep at night knowing that your taxes paid each day go to slaughtering innocent people around the world.

Todo la vida es sagrado!
 
2008-11-20 02:39:08 PM  
 
2008-11-20 02:39:47 PM  
Questioning the preznit means you're a racist, a turrst or a patriot. Pick one.
 
2008-11-20 02:40:14 PM  
You can have peace, or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.~Robert Heinlein

Obama's stance on Iraq and Afghanistan is one of the reasons I voted for him. It's stupid head-in-the-sand thinking to be "anti-war". I am anti the Iraq war, but to be anti-war is to be willfully ignorant of history and human nature.
 
2008-11-20 02:40:37 PM  
"There's so much Obama hero worship, we're having to walk this line where we can't directly criticize him."

No really? Obama hero worship? You don't say!

People will learn. When there's so many accolades & so many "journalists" who practically blow the guy on the air, there's something fishy.
 
2008-11-20 02:41:43 PM  
And then there was wailing and gnashing of teeth on the American left.

/In before the "get over it, you lost" crowd of fail
//Dem
 
2008-11-20 02:41:59 PM  
Brainsick: It's stupid head-in-the-sand thinking to be "anti-war".

As opposed to 'pro-War'? Sorry, it should be an absolute last resort.
 
2008-11-20 02:43:18 PM  
keiverarrow: I am a strong supporter of Obama, but I hope people come to understand that withholding criticism was just for the lead up to the election, and that it's open season on the man now.

WRONG! it's wabbit season
 
2008-11-20 02:43:54 PM  
glassa:
there's something fishy.


That's just your vag.
 
2008-11-20 02:44:28 PM  
Who the hell is saying Obama can't be criticized? Where does this crap even come from?
 
2008-11-20 02:45:08 PM  
Shaggy_C: Brainsick: It's stupid head-in-the-sand thinking to be "anti-war".

As opposed to 'pro-War'? Sorry, it should be an absolute last resort.


No it shouldn't. We should make up reasons to go to war. And pay for it with a credit card.
 
2008-11-20 02:46:49 PM  
Shaggy_C: Brainsick: It's stupid head-in-the-sand thinking to be "anti-war".

As opposed to 'pro-War'? Sorry, it should be an absolute last resort.


Much like 'pro-life', I feel that the label 'anti-war' doesn't really mean anything.
 
2008-11-20 02:47:07 PM  
Gangway Fathead: Who the hell is saying Obama can't be criticized? Where does this crap even come from?

Hillary democrats and republicans
 
2008-11-20 02:48:41 PM  
king_nacho: keiverarrow
Shouldn't it have been open season from the beginning? Shouldn't people have known who they were voting for before he was elected.


Of course it's been open season. That stupid "he's a gay muslim socialist thing who pals around with professors they hardly knew who were terrorist-wannabes in their callow youth" was all over the media for months.

I think what this guy is talking about is real criticism. You know - things that actually matter.

Almost completely due to the fact that the GOP has been taken over by its own lunatics, there has been very little actual adult criticism of Obama's decisions.

I hope that will change.
 
2008-11-20 02:48:42 PM  
Obama was never an anti-war candidate and never claimed to be one. He was against the Iraq War and for the Afghanistan War. Anti-war groups who didn't know this prior to his nomination were not paying attention.
 
2008-11-20 02:48:43 PM  
Gangway Fathead: Who the hell is saying Obama can't be criticized? Where does this crap even come from?

The people who have been criticizing him for two years ironically.
 
2008-11-20 02:48:49 PM  
glassa: blow the guy

again?
 
2008-11-20 02:49:55 PM  
Shaggy_C: Brainsick: It's stupid head-in-the-sand thinking to be "anti-war".

As opposed to 'pro-War'? Sorry, it should be an absolute last resort.


I agree; but to say "I will not participate in a war" is akin to saying "please kill my neighbors and take my land by force" when there are other warlike elements about in the world. I'd love to see a world where countries settle disputes with negotiations and mutually beneficial arrangements, but when there's a horde of heavily armed killers headed your way "war" suddenly seems a lot less abhorrent. Sometimes, in order to survive, you have to kill. Just a sad fact.
 
2008-11-20 02:50:27 PM  
SeismicJizzer: Hillary democrats

Which is odd, because people keep talking about Hillary for Sec of State, which would put her pro-war vote and sabre-rattling in a scary position.

Hillary is exactly the kind of person that these anti-war people are worried about. And anti-war folks aren't generally Republicans either.
 
2008-11-20 02:50:44 PM  
Antiwar groups fear Barack Obama may create hawkish Cabinet

As well they should. So far, I've got nothing but sh*t here for pointing it out.

"Change" does not mean doing the same old crap...
 
2008-11-20 02:51:06 PM  
They are just concerned now? Did they not notice that he has consistently supported the war in Iraq since becoming a senator?
 
2008-11-20 02:52:25 PM  
Obama has spent the last 20 months promising everything to everybody. His entire campaign was spent telling people exactly what they wanted to hear. Even if he fulfills 75% of his campaign promises, that will still leave a certain number of people unhappy that he broke a promise. Many, many people think of the guy as the messiah, while others are more pragmatic and realize that he was simply the most sensible candidate. The hero worship will subside when he doesn't do something he said he would (health care reform, for instance, has exactly zero chance of getting through Congress). Then hopefully we can move on as a country. We don't need a God as president, we just need somebody that isn't Bush.
 
2008-11-20 02:52:38 PM  
Biological Ali: Much like 'pro-life', I feel that the label 'anti-war' doesn't really mean anything.

Well you have to make a distinction between those who are against war as a means to resolve conflict, but understand the necessity, and a true 'peacenick' who would rather see the United States invaded and controlled by a dictatorship rather than take up arms. *shrug* Count me in the first group. War is a nasty, nasty business.
 
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