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(Chron)   A Texas grand jury has indicted Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on charges related to the alleged abuse of prisoners. 62 more shopping days for Bush pardons   (chron.com ) divider line
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9156 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2008 at 11:16 PM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-11-19 04:28:09 AM  
SO?
 
2008-11-19 04:52:54 AM  
If I'm reading this correctly, and I'd like to think I am, a South Texas Grand Jury just indicted Cheney and Gonzalez on fairly complex Fed-like state charges.

Anyway, this is one of the toughest media conundrums I've ever looked at.
 
2008-11-19 05:40:40 AM  

Goodfella: Some things you just don't do.

Richard Bruce Cheney will find those responsible for these outrageous charges, hunt them down like dogs, and put the remains in the coffin-sized safe in his office.


suggestedthinking.bloggingpaul.com

frankly, im amazed at the fact that noone has posted this yet.
 
2008-11-19 06:17:19 AM  
Et tu, Florida? Yet Texas still does not get a tag?
Where is the justice!
 
2008-11-19 06:59:50 AM  

Weaver95: Cagey B: sloppy shoes: Can you unpardon someone?????????

Cause this is bullshiat. They need to go to prison, for something.

It's kind of disappointing to throw someone into prison when they own the prison.

I'm not sure I really like the idea of privately owned prisons. I'm as much of a free market capitalist as you can get and the idea just offends me that someone would try and turn a profit off of prisoners. that's a little too close to slavery in my mind. At the very least, giving a corporation a financial incentive in supporting authoritarian laws just seems to tempt fate.



Sadly we already have a lot of them and the percentage is growing every day.


You should look up CCA , the Corrections Corporation of America, and particularly their Campaign finance Shenanigans involving Ballot measures to legalize drugs and do away with mandatory minimum sentences (new window)

When you privatize prisons a dropping crime rate is bad for business, so you have to make up the revenue shortfall somehow
 
2008-11-19 07:00:37 AM  
Ha ha.
Whatever.
It's like that little Vermont town that passed a resolution to arrest President Bush should he ever come through.

I was hoping Bush would ride through town just to shove it in their face.

Idiots. Times like this, and they can't think of better things to do with their time.

/All presidents protect one another. Don't look for Obama to pursue too much dirt on GWB.
//Just like Bush stymied congressional GOPers who were looking for dirt on Bill Clinton in 2001.
///Vermont: Only state Bush and Cheney have never visited in eight years.
 
2008-11-19 07:30:18 AM  
You could have an argument about cheney and war crimes or making up WMD info etc. I wouldn;t agree at this point, but at least you could make a case.

However, these charges are BS.


Magorn: Sadly we already have a lot of them and the percentage is growing every day.


You should look up CCA , the Corrections Corporation of America, and particularly their Campaign finance Shenanigans involving Ballot measures to legalize drugs and do away with mandatory minimum sentences (new window)

When you privatize prisons a dropping crime rate is bad for business, so you have to make up the revenue shortfall somehow


You might want to double check that link.

I think private prisons require monitoring, and special precautions, including what they can/can't lobby for. But I don;t think they are "wrong" by their very nature.
 
2008-11-19 08:11:14 AM  
These are state indictments. There is no precedent nor caselaw allowing the President of the US to pardon anyone from crimes prosecuted by a state. He can only pardon people accused or convicted of federal crimes.

However, I'm willing to bet that Cheney and Gonzales are good friends of this guy, who IS able to give pardons in Texas. We'll have to see how it pans out.

www.bbspot.com
 
2008-11-19 08:11:46 AM  

brap: ZAZ

Good point. And if you can get away with shooting someone in the face and have them thank you for the priveledge, you're pretty much golden.

It seems the good shiateheel may have to settle for being charged and convicted of being universally reviled in a court of humanity.


Not only did he shoot someone in the face, it was a friend, who also was a lawyer. As I recall the lawyer apologized for getting in the way.

/Was he talking about the birdshot
//or something else he was in the way of?
 
2008-11-19 08:44:39 AM  
Tip of the ice berg.
More to come.
 
2008-11-19 08:45:32 AM  

sloppy shoes: Cagey B: sloppy shoes: Can you unpardon someone?????????

Cause this is bullshiat. They need to go to prison, for something.

It's kind of disappointing to throw someone into prison when they own the prison.

I've been in favor of keeping Guantanamo Bay open just to house all the Bush Administration officials who are corrupt. Oh BOY that would be like a thousand Christmases if they locked up Bush and Cheney and Gonzalez and all the others in Gitmo.



It's time for dinner...cockmeat sandwich anyone?
 
2008-11-19 08:45:47 AM  

blockhouse: These are state indictments. There is no precedent nor caselaw allowing the President of the US to pardon anyone from crimes prosecuted by a state. He can only pardon people accused or convicted of federal crimes.

However, I'm willing to bet that Cheney and Gonzales are good friends of this guy, who IS able to give pardons in Texas. We'll have to see how it pans out.


I'll tell you right now how it pans out. These ridiculous charges will be thrown out before a date is even picked for jury selection. Then this tool of a prosecutor (who's already on his way out) will have his head examined to see if he is mentally retarded or more likely just a taxpayer's money and time wasting leftist douchebag.
 
2008-11-19 08:47:53 AM  
Interestingly, Howard Stern's news channel had been talking about it all day yesterday. Cheney is connected to some outfit that oversees and runs prisons on the cheap for states. A few months ago a wackpacker died in prison run by this outfit in PA. Almost as a goof at first, Stern's news crew, which consists of a few retired journalists, started investigating. All of the sudden they started finding some stuff. I doubt their investigation led to the indictments but it would be funny if it did -- a little revenge for all the FCC hassles.
 
2008-11-19 08:52:07 AM  

MoeSzyslak:
I'll tell you right now how it pans out. These ridiculous charges will be thrown out before a date is even picked for jury selection.


Or maybe he is tried, convicted, sentenced, and commits "suicide" while incarcerated.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Once you are indicted, the wheels are turning.

There is no left or right in the CJS.
 
2008-11-19 08:54:05 AM  

misanthropoid: I'm pretty sure odometer rollback isn't a federal offense


Indeed it is.

Link (new window)
 
2008-11-19 08:59:09 AM  
I want to write to the President and ask if he'll pardon my parking ticket.

Then when he doesn't (and I'm pretty sure he won't), I'll call up the news stations and suggest they do a story on how corrupt the former President is because he pardoned all sorts of horrible crimes, but not a simple parking ticket.

3) Profit?
 
2008-11-19 09:07:29 AM  
This thread is basically just libtards jacking off. Predictable and boring....
 
2008-11-19 09:09:27 AM  

Funk Brothers: Obama's going to committ more crimes than Nixon, FDR, Turman, and Lincoln combined.


That's OK, he is the leader of my team, so I don't care(sarcasm).

When you combine his with all of the ones you listed, will it even come close to matching Bush?
 
2008-11-19 09:11:31 AM  

bookman: This thread is basically just libtards jacking off. Predictable and boring....


Just wait a few months when the Obama-bashing really gets going. Then you and your crew can have a turn. Do you think you can wait that long?
 
2008-11-19 09:17:08 AM  

SemperLieSuckah:

//This was a note to the LOONY left, not the majority of the left/center-left.


There is a difference?
 
2008-11-19 09:17:40 AM  

vudukungfu: MoeSzyslak:
I'll tell you right now how it pans out. These ridiculous charges will be thrown out before a date is even picked for jury selection.

Or maybe he is tried, convicted, sentenced, and commits "suicide" while incarcerated.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Once you are indicted, the wheels are turning.

There is no left or right in the CJS.


Did you even read the article?

FTFA:

Willacy County District Attorney Juan Angel Guerra himself had been under indictment for more than a year and half before a judge dismissed the indictments last month. This flurry of charges came in the twilight of Guerra's tenure, which ends this year after nearly two decades in office. He lost convincingly in a Democratic primary in March.
.
.
.
Cheney's indictment on a charge of engaging in an organized criminal activity criticizes the vice president's investment in the Vanguard Group, which holds interests in the private prison companies running the federal detention centers. It accuses Cheney of a conflict of interest and "at least misdemeanor assaults" on detainees because of his link to the prison companies.
.
.
.
Lucio's attorney, Michael Cowen, released a scathing statement accusing Guerra of settling political scores in his final weeks in office.

Nope nothing political there.

If you had read the article you'd know it's about some d-bag lefty prosecutor who just got his ass handed to him in the election and instead of leaving office with dignity is making an ass of himself by indicting a bunch of local and national level republicans with hair brained phony charges that he doesn't even have jurisdiction to bring even if they weren't totally baseless.

If Cheney gets convicted of "conflict of interest or at least misdemeanor assault" and in turn kills himself I'll eat my hat. These charges will be thrown out as they should be.

I hate to break it to all the Bush hating Obama fellating farkers but as soon as Obama takes office Bush and all his cronies aren't going to be brought up on charges and thrown in prison. It just ain't going to happen and you're delusional if you think it is.
 
2008-11-19 09:34:47 AM  
MoeSzyslak: I hate to break it to all the Bush hating Obama fellating farkers but as soon as Obama takes office Bush and all his cronies aren't going to be brought up on charges and thrown in prison. It just ain't going to happen and you're delusional if you think it is.

I have to agree with this.
They're all playing for the same coach.
Anyway, the nation will be too embroiled in the next manufactured crisis that intel sources and political figures are already beating the warning drums about, and the "unpopular" laws that Obama will be "forced" to sign off as a result.
 
2008-11-19 09:37:44 AM  
Late but Bush can ONLY pardon for federal crimes NOT for state offenses. If someone is convicted under state statute there is nothing he can do. It's like a govenor trying to pardon someone in fed prison for a federal crime, nothing would happen.
 
2008-11-19 10:07:34 AM  
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gonzalez should be on trial in The Hague.
 
2008-11-19 10:22:03 AM  
of course when you dress like that vernon who is going to take you seriously for anything
 
2008-11-19 10:24:32 AM  

Weaver95: I'm not sure I really like the idea of privately owned prisons. I'm as much of a free market capitalist as you can get and the idea just offends me that someone would try and turn a profit off of prisoners. that's a little too close to slavery in my mind. At the very least, giving a corporation a financial incentive in supporting authoritarian laws just seems to tempt fate.


The other problem with privately run prisons is, there's no sovereign immunity for the jailers if they screw up and do something wrong in the course of their job duties. If a prison guard who works for the government throws a prisoner up against a wall and accidentally hurts the guy, he's got immunity from prosecution (unless it can be shown he used reckless force, of course). Private security guards don't get that protection, so why the hell would anyone want to work that job?
 
2008-11-19 10:29:36 AM  
OMG The Hague

The United States hasn't ratified the Rome Statute, and likely will not.

The Unites States will not ratify the Rome Statute if, with the consent of two judges, any bozo from Iran, Venezuela, Douchebagvania, whatever, can initiate prosecution.

There are enough issues that attempting to ratify the treaty will create resentment in the electorate. Idiot fundie Republicans can point to this and claim them foreigners want to assault our constitution, and vote out people pushing for inclusion to the ICC.

I don't think it will happen.
 
2008-11-19 10:38:11 AM  

damageddude: Interestingly, Howard Stern's news channel had been talking about it all day yesterday. Cheney is connected to some outfit that oversees and runs prisons on the cheap for states. A few months ago a wackpacker died in prison run by this outfit in PA. Almost as a goof at first, Stern's news crew, which consists of a few retired journalists, started investigating. All of the sudden they started finding some stuff. I doubt their investigation led to the indictments but it would be funny if it did -- a little revenge for all the FCC hassles.


Just yesterday?

That pitbull Steve Langford has been on this since days after Kenneth Keith Kallenbach died.

Granted, their investigation probably had nothing to do with this coming round of indictments, but just like the John Edwards mistress case, it's pitiful that what is, essentially, a goof news department is doing better at digging up real dirt than the mainstream media.
 
2008-11-19 10:39:29 AM  
I live in the area.
Last year Juan Guerra the prosecuter in charge, set up office outside if the building complete with chickens,donkeys and goats.
He was trying to make the point of the circus we call willacy county. Guerra is known as the great amancipator here locally because of his record on convictions. He has cost willacy county $875000 in legal fees for his indictments on his rival opponents . Just a normal day in south texas.
 
2008-11-19 11:37:09 AM  

sloppy shoes: Can you unpardon someone?????????

Cause this is bullshiat. They need to go to prison, for something.


Coincidentally, that's the same attitude shared by every cop who has illegally locked up any prisoner, since pretty much...ever.
 
2008-11-19 11:38:27 AM  

buenohead: Just wait a few months when the Obama-bashing really gets going. Then you and your crew can have a turn. Do you think you can wait that long?


No. He stinks and I don't like him.
 
2008-11-19 12:28:25 PM  

vudukungfu: Tip of the ice berg.
More to come.



Non-story. This is just the criminalization of crime.
 
2008-11-19 01:57:52 PM  
In the 2006 election, the Madison, WI voters passed a resolution recalling all troops from Iraq. This indictment has about as much chance of sticking as that resolution did.
 
2008-11-19 02:05:48 PM  

Somacandra: FTFA: Gonzalez's attorney, George Terwilliger III, said in a written statement, "This is obviously a bogus charge on its face, as any good prosecutor can recognize. Hopefully, competent Texas authorities will take steps to reign in this abuse of the criminal justice system."

Anyone else hear Kelsey Grammer's voice saying all that too?


Actually, I heard Stewie's voice. But, then again, I often do.
 
2008-11-19 03:22:05 PM  
Bush can't pardon them if it's a state conviction. ENJOY!
 
2008-11-19 06:12:23 PM  
Dear anal retentive Democrats: You won the election, and rightfully so. In a few more days, Bush et al will go away. STFU.
 
2008-11-19 11:57:35 PM  

sloppy shoes: Can you issue a blanket pardon?


The President can do anything he wants on pardons. SCOTUS won't touch it unless you bring John Marshall back from the dead.
 
2008-11-20 12:05:04 AM  
It looks like it's safe to say that about half the people in this thread are delusional retards. More power to you because you guys are special people and don't ever let anybody tell you otherwise.

Newsflash!!! Whether Bush can or can't pardon state charges has no bearing on these nonsensical charges that will be dropped regardless.

Premature boners the whole lot of you.

Good luck with your quest to put W and his cronies in prison. You'll need it because it isn't going to happen no matter how much you biatch and moan.

Obama's just as much of a douchebag politician as Bush is and he isn't going to do shiat. Hows snake oil taste???

Recycled Clinton administration = Change we can believe in.

/personality cult. let me show it to you.
 
2008-11-20 09:51:11 AM  
buenohead:
bookman: This thread is basically just libtards jacking off. Predictable and boring....
Just wait a few months when the Obama-bashing really gets going. Then you and your crew can have a turn. Do you think you can wait that long?


Prediction: 95% of the Obama-bashing will come from the Left. This will happen after Obama starts emulating people like LBJ.

It's so sad; the Left has absolutely no sense of history or, apparently, memory.

It's almost required for a libtard to go on about the Bush dictatorship. But I still remember a Ron Cobb cartoon from the 60's showing a crowd composed entirely of shifty-eyed cops listening to an LBJ charactiture saying "Mah fellow Americans...!"

4 years from now, when we have the Draft, 850,000 troops in the Middle East and Indonesia, and really beefed up Homeland Security, the libtards will be pining for the "good old days" of their freedoms under Bush.
 
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