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(Chron)   A Texas grand jury has indicted Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on charges related to the alleged abuse of prisoners. 62 more shopping days for Bush pardons   (chron.com) divider line 139
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9147 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Nov 2008 at 11:16 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-11-18 07:19:39 PM
Not those prisoners.
Nope, not those prisoners either.
These ones.
 
2008-11-18 07:37:56 PM
In Texas?

Wow, that's a little embarrassing.
 
2008-11-18 07:38:54 PM
Can you unpardon someone?????????

Cause this is bullshiat. They need to go to prison, for something.
 
2008-11-18 07:50:18 PM
sloppy shoes: Can you unpardon someone?????????

Cause this is bullshiat. They need to go to prison, for something.


It's kind of disappointing to throw someone into prison when they own the prison.
 
2008-11-18 07:51:48 PM
sloppy shoes: They need to go to prison, for something.

I'm sure there are lots of other lawsuits waiting in the wings that could result in indictments. They just need to wait until Bush leaves the White House to get into a pardon-free zone, then pounce. Let Bush issue a blanket pardon on the 20th, and then have all the indictments hit on the 21st.
 
2008-11-18 07:52:00 PM
Cagey B: sloppy shoes: Can you unpardon someone?????????

Cause this is bullshiat. They need to go to prison, for something.

It's kind of disappointing to throw someone into prison when they own the prison.


I've been in favor of keeping Guantanamo Bay open just to house all the Bush Administration officials who are corrupt. Oh BOY that would be like a thousand Christmases if they locked up Bush and Cheney and Gonzalez and all the others in Gitmo.
 
2008-11-18 07:53:24 PM
Pocket Ninja: sloppy shoes: They need to go to prison, for something.

I'm sure there are lots of other lawsuits waiting in the wings that could result in indictments. They just need to wait until Bush leaves the White House to get into a pardon-free zone, then pounce. Let Bush issue a blanket pardon on the 20th, and then have all the indictments hit on the 21st.


Can you issue a blanket pardon?

I don't remember if that was ever solved on Fark.
 
2008-11-18 07:54:40 PM
Where is a good attorney general when you need them?

//I do not recall...
 
2008-11-18 07:56:57 PM
Let them go as a proud reminder of the administration that redefined what it means to be an American and helped do away with all that silly national pride.
 
2008-11-18 07:58:02 PM
Cagey B: sloppy shoes: Can you unpardon someone?????????

Cause this is bullshiat. They need to go to prison, for something.

It's kind of disappointing to throw someone into prison when they own the prison.


I'm not sure I really like the idea of privately owned prisons. I'm as much of a free market capitalist as you can get and the idea just offends me that someone would try and turn a profit off of prisoners. that's a little too close to slavery in my mind. At the very least, giving a corporation a financial incentive in supporting authoritarian laws just seems to tempt fate.
 
2008-11-18 08:02:39 PM
Weaver95: I'm not sure I really like the idea of privately owned prisons. I'm as much of a free market capitalist as you can get and the idea just offends me that someone would try and turn a profit off of prisoners. that's a little too close to slavery in my mind. At the very least, giving a corporation a financial incentive in supporting authoritarian laws just seems to tempt fate.

I am right there with you, but how do we go about taking them out of private hands? Isn't that SOCIALISM!?!?!?
 
2008-11-18 08:06:43 PM
sloppy shoes: Can you issue a blanket pardon?

Ford pardoned Nixon for anything he "might have done" over a five-year period, even stuff he hadn't been accused of. I'd call that a blanket pardon. So, yeah, Bush could pardon Cheney for anything he'd done over the past 8 years and make him immune from future prosecutions.

But, if the thing that Cheney (or anyone else) was being accused of was still continuing as of Jan. 21st, that might be another matter.
 
2008-11-18 08:11:48 PM
Pocket Ninja: sloppy shoes: Can you issue a blanket pardon?

Ford pardoned Nixon for anything he "might have done" over a five-year period, even stuff he hadn't been accused of. I'd call that a blanket pardon. So, yeah, Bush could pardon Cheney for anything he'd done over the past 8 years and make him immune from future prosecutions.

But, if the thing that Cheney (or anyone else) was being accused of was still continuing as of Jan. 21st, that might be another matter.


We should never have let that happen to Nixon. Ughh...

I will be pissed if he pardons them. (shiat, can he pardon himself?)

Maybe we should all rally non-stop at the White House demanding that Republicans make him not give any pardons.

More interestingly, what effect will that have on Republicans if Bush does "blanket" pardon Cheney? It would basically be an admission of guilt by the administration. That could be real harmful to the party in the future.
 
2008-11-18 08:14:59 PM
gigdaddy: I am right there with you, but how do we go about taking them out of private hands? Isn't that SOCIALISM!?!?!?

1/10. you forgot to mention Jesus.
 
2008-11-18 08:18:12 PM
Pocket Ninja: sloppy shoes: Can you issue a blanket pardon?

Ford pardoned Nixon for anything he "might have done" over a five-year period, even stuff he hadn't been accused of. I'd call that a blanket pardon. So, yeah, Bush could pardon Cheney for anything he'd done over the past 8 years and make him immune from future prosecutions.

But, if the thing that Cheney (or anyone else) was being accused of was still continuing as of Jan. 21st, that might be another matter.


jimmy carter's pardon of draft dodgers is another example
 
2008-11-18 08:21:53 PM
Megain: jimmy carter's pardon of draft dodgers is another example

It was for a specific crime, though.

And Ford's pardon of Nixon-- and that pardon was never tested.
 
2008-11-18 08:33:23 PM
Friggit mods...
Are you going to greenlight ONE of these threads? This is actual NEWS. And big news. Whether or not it ever actually will amount to anything, the current Vice President of the United States has been indicted by a state Grand Jury on a felony count.
 
2008-11-18 08:35:16 PM
Obdicut: Megain: jimmy carter's pardon of draft dodgers is another example

It was for a specific crime, though.

And Ford's pardon of Nixon-- and that pardon was never tested.


yeah, i meant that it covered a blanket 'set of people' (or something like that). so who's to say the two can't be combined?

'i, president bush, hereby pardon everyone in my administration for any crimes committed during my presidency'

/shudder
 
2008-11-18 08:39:16 PM
Megain:
'i, president bush, hereby pardon everyone in my administration for any crimes committed during my presidency'

/shudder


See, I'm pretty sure that would end the Republican party. It would be a complete validation of everything Barack Obama and the Democrats said.

All those years of Democratic whining- BAM! We have (in the standard of public logic) undeniable proof that Bush and his cronies were up to no good.

That- or it would result in a retroactive Constitutional Amendment that would prevent a President from pardoning anyone he knows or works for him.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2008-11-18 08:52:15 PM
The president can't pardon somebody for violating state law. On the other hand, states can't try federal officials for doing their job wrong so it evens out.

The charge seems to be, Cheney has an investment in a company that has an investment in a company that did something wrong. Leaving aside the companies for a moment, Cheney could fly to Iraq and rape prisoners and there's nothing a Texas prosecutor can do about it. Out of jurisdiction and as a federal official in performance of his duties he's basically immune from state charges. We learned that from Ruby Ridge -- FBI agent committed murder or manslaughter, feds didn't want to press charges, state prosecutor found too many roadblocks in his way.

With at least two levels of corporate structure in between, Cheney is insulated anyway. Shareholders as such are not liable beyond losing their investment.
 
2008-11-18 09:09:19 PM
Cletus from Canuckistan: This is actual NEWS. And big news

Not really. Willacy county government makes the Mickey Mouse Club look like the Harvard Law Review.
 
2008-11-18 09:12:55 PM
ZAZ

Good point. And if you can get away with shooting someone in the face and have them thank you for the priveledge, you're pretty much golden.

It seems the good shiateheel may have to settle for being charged and convicted of being universally reviled in a court of humanity.
 
2008-11-18 09:24:13 PM
Does a person have to be convicted to receive pardon?

I doubt very much whether they could get a conviction before 1/20/09
 
2008-11-18 09:28:07 PM
www.majhost.com
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2008-11-18 09:37:37 PM
Does a person have to be convicted to receive pardon?

No. The offense must already have been committed.

Traditionally pardons follow conviction. That's not a law. There are ordinary pardons and extraordinary pardons. Ordinary pardons go through an application process after the sentence is complete. The criminal has to say he's sorry. Extraordinary pardons are for whatever reason the president likes. Carter wanted to heal wounds of Vietnam and pardoned draft dodgers. Mark Rich bought a pardon from Clinton. Bush didn't think Scooter Libby deserved jail and commuted his sentence. The constitution doesn't care why.
 
2008-11-18 10:09:53 PM
sloppy shoes: Can you issue a blanket pardon?

Me? No. However, I presume you're asking about the President.

Historical examples exist, dating back to George Washington. However, they were generally involving acts of war against the United States which would have been prosecutable as treason... and by a faction opposing, not supporting, the President.
 
2008-11-18 10:23:37 PM
I wonder if Bush feels like a little kid when your parent said, "You wait until we get home."

Home is when he leaves Office.
 
2008-11-18 11:01:18 PM
You guys better be nice to Mr. Cheney or maybe he won't LEAVE office in January.
 
2008-11-18 11:05:04 PM
ZAZ: The charge seems to be, Cheney has an investment in a company that has an investment in a company that did something wrong. Leaving aside the companies for a moment, Cheney could fly to Iraq and rape prisoners and there's nothing a Texas prosecutor can do about it. Out of jurisdiction and as a federal official in performance of his duties he's basically immune from state charges. We learned that from Ruby Ridge -- FBI agent committed murder or manslaughter, feds didn't want to press charges, state prosecutor found too many roadblocks in his way.

With at least two levels of corporate structure in between, Cheney is insulated anyway. Shareholders as such are not liable beyond losing their investment.


I'll take Gonzales. I realize that he can't remember what he did 5 minutes ago, but if he actively obstructed an investigation, I'm sure plenty of people will remember once the Bush administration is no longer in a position to punish them.
 
2008-11-18 11:11:31 PM
So the one that got greenlit wasn't a newsflash, hm?

Whatever gets these douchebags into a jailcell is fine with me. Of course, pardons will be dispensed.
 
2008-11-18 11:13:48 PM
SchlingFocker:
I'll take Gonzales. I realize that he can't remember what he did 5 minutes ago, but if he actively obstructed an investigation, I'm sure plenty of people will remember once the Bush administration is no longer in a position to punish them.


The Democrats have been having hearings on a lot of Bush administration officials who were basically not doing their jobs. Especially concerning war contracts, there are a lot of people who could possibly go down if we could get people to talk- that is if they weren't counting the checks they cashed for doing crap.
 
2008-11-18 11:19:30 PM
Obama's going to committ more crimes than Nixon, FDR, Turman, and Lincoln combined.
 
2008-11-18 11:20:51 PM
sloppy shoes: Can you issue a blanket pardon?

I know that I'm part native american, so I dislike blanket pardons.
 
2008-11-18 11:22:35 PM
But if my master is killed I won't be able to finish my apprenticeship as a Sith.

I wanna force choke and force lightning people.
 
2008-11-18 11:22:53 PM
IXI Jim IXI: sloppy shoes: Can you issue a blanket pardon?

I know that I'm part native american, so I dislike blanket pardons.


Hey you got to use that one twice!

/still funny though
 
2008-11-18 11:23:30 PM
Funk Brothers: Obama's going to committ more crimes than Nixon, FDR, Turman, and Lincoln combined.

I think the thread's been greenlit.
 
2008-11-18 11:24:16 PM
Funk Brothers: Obama's going to committ more crimes than Nixon, FDR, Turman, and Lincoln combined.

Whoa, you can see the future?!

Quick - Who wins the 2009 super bowl??

I gotta place the bets soon!
 
2008-11-18 11:24:36 PM
Funk Brothers: Obama's going to committ more crimes than Nixon, FDR, Turman, and Lincoln combined.

DAMN YOU TURMAN!
 
2008-11-18 11:26:17 PM
I thought Dewy beat Turman.
 
2008-11-18 11:26:45 PM
If Bush and Cheney and Rove and Gonzales were to go to actually go to prison, or at least be convicted,...

I can't pose a question, just curious about the response.

/see's this and all other prosecutions of the Bush Administration as a waste of time
//realzies there is merit to some of the claims
 
2008-11-18 11:27:35 PM
Too bad most of you missed the fact that this asshat is wildly out of control down there.
 
2008-11-18 11:27:46 PM
Funk Brothers: Obama's going to committ more crimes than Nixon, FDR, Turman, and Lincoln combined.

I LOL'd....
 
2008-11-18 11:27:54 PM
holiday_inn_in_cambodia: Funk Brothers: Obama's going to committ more crimes than Nixon, FDR, Turman, and Lincoln combined.

DAMN YOU TURMAN!


In all fairness, I don't trust log cabin salesmen.
 
2008-11-18 11:28:46 PM
Confabulat: I thought Dewy beat Turman.

No, no, no...

Turman is kin to Birar Gates.
 
2008-11-18 11:29:34 PM
halfof33: Too bad most of you missed the fact that this asshat is wildly out of control down there.

A stopped clock is right twice a day.
 
2008-11-18 11:29:56 PM
SchlingFocker: Confabulat: I thought Dewy beat Turman.

No, no, no...

Turman is kin to Birar Gates.


The computer guy?!
 
2008-11-18 11:31:07 PM
This prosecutor sounds like he is barking mad.

Which will probably be proven when he subpoenas everybody who said bad things about him on this thread.

Like Cheney or dislike him, doing things this way is just plain wrong.
 
2008-11-18 11:31:13 PM
Funk Brothers: Obama's going to committ more crimes than Nixon, FDR, Turman, and Lincoln combined.

it's not a crime if the President does it.
 
2008-11-18 11:32:16 PM
Fart_Machine: Hey you got to use that one twice!

Hell, not only have I beat that horse to death, I've had sex with the corpse. :D
 
2008-11-18 11:35:08 PM
Haha. This will go no where. If farkers actually would have read the article it talks about how other bizarre indictments have been tossed out. The guy lost his primary after 20 years in office. Seems like somebody just trying to go out with a bang. Cheney might be guilty as hell for alot of stuff. And really, if the vice president is going to be brought to trial, it's gonna be through the federal system. Not some backwater Texas district.
 
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