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14828 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jan 2003 at 1:20 PM (12 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



130 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2003-01-10 01:52:02 PM  
I completely agree with you Defender. Economically the death penalty is a complete waste of the courts dwindling resources. I also think that in many ways a lifetime in prison is a far worse sentence than death.
 
2003-01-10 01:53:33 PM  
I don't know the actual percent, I don't think anyone does. I have a few who claim they are innocent, that clearly are not. I have one that says he is, and that remains to be seen, but we're pursuing it. Others know what they did and admit to it. Obviously i can't get into the details due to attorney-client confidentiality.
 
2003-01-10 01:56:47 PM  
Squidloe
Cesare,

Wahhhh. Cry me a river.


Brilliant line you dumb fark, you write that one yourself?

I could care less what happens to child molestors in prison or in child molestor hell, which I can only assume is filled with supple little boys with razor blades up their asses.

My point is that counting Arab executions is farking retarded and a waste of my precious, precious time. The implication is that they are wacky and barbaric because they execute people with a sword... I'd feel remiss to not point out that we execute far more people, often times by strapping them into a rusty old atomic era chair and haphazardly pumping 10,000 volts through them.

This isn't an argument against execution, it's an argument about yet another ongoing fark joke that's about as funny as a kick in the balls on my birthday.
 
2003-01-10 01:58:59 PM  
ArseMan
Texas: 33

Why is the total so high for Texas?

Does it execute people for jaywalking, or are there just more murderers/rapists living there?
 
2003-01-10 01:59:21 PM  
I like blinking, I do.
 
2003-01-10 02:00:31 PM  
Jeff, you're my hero. Way to lay the smack down!
 
2003-01-10 02:00:53 PM  
-Defender,

I have some traffic tickets I could use a hand with, and it is a life and death matter. Now follow me on this one. If I am found guilty, I will have to pay both a fine and a steep increase in my insurance rates. This translates into me having less money, which means I can not go to the bar as often as I normally would, nor buy as many drinks as is the norm.

This lowers my chances of getting a peice. Pretty substantially too when you factor in the part about less booze.

This of course leads to me not having kids. In fact, if it was not for a speeding ticket back in 96 I assure you I would have at least 2 or 3 by now.

So its not the government taking away my life, its the government denying my children a chance to exist. Quite unfair if you ask me.

And uhm, yea, I was not speeding.
 
2003-01-10 02:01:12 PM  
Defender,

You have clients taht claim to be innocent but you know are clearly guilty of the crime. And they are still your clients?

I forgot, why do people dislike laweyers again?
 
2003-01-10 02:01:59 PM  
So?
 
2003-01-10 02:03:04 PM  
Cesare,

If your time is so farking precious then why are you on Fark?
 
2003-01-10 02:04:06 PM  
Jeff, you are the wind beneath my wings. Or maybe I just farted. But anyway, you rule.
 
2003-01-10 02:04:13 PM  
Cesare - How the fark is counting executions a waste of your time? No one forces you to click the farking link to these articles!
 
2003-01-10 02:06:02 PM  
Because I work for the state and am appointed. Their guilt or innocence doesn't determine whether they get a lawyer. Many of the appeals are mandatory as well. At least in the State in which I work. Actual innocence is a rare claim, mostly it's constitutional violations that occured at trial or pre-trial. (i.e. technicalities)

And I know, I know....nobody loves attorneys--believe me, I can't stand them either.
 
2003-01-10 02:06:10 PM  
Squidloe:

Behind every sleazy, unethical, and low lawyer there is an exceedingly sleazier, more unethical and lower client.
 
2003-01-10 02:07:19 PM  
Because I work for the state and am appointed. Their guilt or innocence doesn't determine whether they get a lawyer. What I personally think doesn't matter. I am not the judge or court. Many of the appeals are mandatory as well. At least in the State in which I work. Actual innocence is a rare claim, mostly it's constitutional violations that occured at trial or pre-trial. (i.e. technicalities)

And I know, I know....nobody loves attorneys--believe me, I can't stand them either.
 
2003-01-10 02:08:03 PM  
Cesare,

And to answer your question regarding the "Wahhh, cry me a river" line.

Yes I did right it myself. However, I didn't create the literary composition. I'll assume it was that literary genius Anonymous. He/She has written a bunch of shiat.

I looked at your bio and a lot about your anger has been explained. Your parents must be proud.
 
2003-01-10 02:08:16 PM  
Sorry for the double post
 
2003-01-10 02:11:51 PM  
Defender,

You're a public defender. Sorry for my accusatory post. Really, I mean that. I know you are in a tough situation. I thouhgt you were like a Johnny Cochran type defender.

Nevermind. But I'm still a fan of executing murderers etc. Even the "barbaric" electric chair is not harsh enouhg for the guilty scumbags.
 
2003-01-10 02:18:27 PM  
Squidloe - People dislike lawyers because they are idiots. The fact that he can defend people that are guilty is why you should admire him. Guilty people, apparently contrary to your opinion, have the same rights in court as innocent people, because HELLO, THAT'S WHERE WE DETERMINE IF THEY ARE GUILTY. If you could magically predict whether the party was innocent or guilty beforehand, why would you have the trial? In fact, you're right, if the police say he's guilty, he's guilty, and no lawyer should ever consider defending a guilty person. If they did, you wouldn't like them! (and we just can't have that)
 
2003-01-10 02:19:54 PM  
No offense taken Squidloe. You're certaintly not alone in your opinion!
 
2003-01-10 02:20:07 PM  
My point is that counting Arab executions is farking retarded and a waste of my precious, precious time.
---
No one forced you to click the link or participate in the comments. Do the world a favor and execute yourself if you are this blatantly stupid.
 
2003-01-10 02:21:02 PM  
1, you lock the target
 
2003-01-10 02:21:42 PM  
People dislike lawyers because they are idiots
---
You were on to something there...lawyers are idiots. Should have stopped while you were ahead (and correct)!
 
2003-01-10 02:22:11 PM  
Squidloe, well, you beat me to the punch. I retract at least the tone, but not the substance of my post. ;)
 
2003-01-10 02:22:58 PM  
Reckless,

Take your head out of your bum and look at my last post directed at Mr. Defender. I didn't know he was a public defender. And yes I agree that all people have the same rights in court, however, if he was a private lawyer (opposite of public defender?) and he knew that his client was guilty and still represented him to try and get him off, then he is a dick.

You had almost 9 minutes to read my post to Defender. Nice selective reading.
 
2003-01-10 02:23:40 PM  
Sex0r, yeah, that didn't come out right huh?
 
2003-01-10 02:27:54 PM  
That's MS. defender. I'm a she.
 
2003-01-10 02:28:40 PM  
Sorry private lawyers carry the same burden of defending either guilty or innocent clients to the best of their ability. You're missing the point that even guilty people should have someone fighting to ensure that they are not convicted on some basis that is a violation of their constitutional rights. Police torture and intimidation come to mind for example. Like this:

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=2F1FE116-32A8-40CC-B8A615BF1BB6DF4 1

Officials say Mr. Ryan will pardon four inmates who claimed they were beaten into making false confessions by police.

Are you saying that all private lawyers should reject any clients that they know are guilty? Why?
 
2003-01-10 02:29:35 PM  
To those who say I don't need to click on the link if I'm not interested... BULLshiat... you know damn well that we're compelled by greater powers to click on every fark link no matter how obnoxious, asinine, or untrue the headline is.

And to Squidloe, most of my anger can be explained by looking at the dumbasses I converse with on the interweb.
 
2003-01-10 02:30:56 PM  
Ms. Defender.

Open mouth insert foot. A thousand apologies again.
 
2003-01-10 02:33:34 PM  
Frankie13: Because Texas has the second largest population, and we're not a bunch of weepy pinko commie liberals like those farkers in Cali.
 
2003-01-10 02:33:49 PM  
01-10-03 01:56:47 PM Cesare
blah, blah, blah... waste of my precious, precious time...blah, blah, blah...it's an argument about yet another ongoing fark joke that's about as funny as a kick in the balls on my birthday

To people who write stuff like this, and talk about how crappy this site is, and think that if they outranked Drew they could do so much better...STFU! If you are so much funnier, start your own farking site!
 
2003-01-10 02:34:00 PM  
Reckless,

Quick, grab some towels and try to stop the bleeding from your heart.
 
2003-01-10 02:35:54 PM  
Defender, how could the death penalty be opposed on economic grounds?

A 25 year old guy kills someone.

Death penalty: 1 syringe of poison.
Life imprisonment: another x# of years to feed and store this guy in the barry place.

What am I missing?
 
2003-01-10 02:38:13 PM  
Reckless,

Does blatant disregard for the truth undermine the integrity of the justice system? Surely, the answer must be yes. Indeed, the system recognizes this. The defense attorney's obligation to represent the client does not extend to suborning perjury. If you as the defense attorney know that your client committed the crime, you are limited in the kind of defense you can put on. You can't put your client-or an alibi witness-on the stand knowing that he or she is going to lie. And you cannot, many experts say, assert as fact an alternate theory of the crime when you know it to be false.
 
2003-01-10 02:39:53 PM  
aaahh, you're all whiners. i lived in riyadh, saudi arabia in 2001 and now realize how fortunate i am to have been born in north america. the saudi's are idiots, i will agree, but they are no different than americans, canadians, ozzies or europeans. in fact their government isn't that much different than the U.S. it's all made up of princes from one elite family that are inept and concerned only with oil.

i say buy a hybrid car and put them out of business. that, or buy a '73 riviera and burn up all their income so they have to rely on those strong date and fig exports that are so popular now a days.
 
2003-01-10 02:40:49 PM  
Sure, Defender may be a female, but I'm guessing she's got really short-cropped hair, big Lisa Loeb glasses, and probably dates a guy who's, like, an interior decorator or something...
 
2003-01-10 02:41:25 PM  
The Boss of You,

Because you have to pay for me and my office, our support staff, our appeals, and the experts we hire. Plus housing the death row inmates separately, and individually (they aren't double celled--at least here), and paying for extra corrections officers.

It's actually cheaper to put him in for life. The Death Penalty Information Center online has some great statistics on this, and more information.
 
2003-01-10 02:44:13 PM  
Squidloe, ya gotta feed him the full line...
*ahem*
cry me a river...
shiat me a bridge...
and get the fark over it.

never gets old
 
2003-01-10 02:44:43 PM  
Um, since when is it bleeding heart liberalism to follow the Constitution?
 
2003-01-10 02:48:46 PM  
what, you mean the 8th amendment?

well, i could be snobby and say that's not IN the constitution (Bill of Rights) but i'll play fair and just say in my very Jeffersonian opinion that i don't find it cruel or unusual. Not lethal injection anyway...
 
2003-01-10 02:49:31 PM  
Sure jdlowejd is a male, but he probably works as a contract monkey for initech, listens to 80's hair metal, and drives a chevy.
 
2003-01-10 02:50:34 PM  
Mike,

Thanks for filling in the blanks.

A beer to you.
 
2003-01-10 02:54:37 PM  
 
2003-01-10 02:55:02 PM  
Why don't we keep a running total of Saudi Arabia vs. U.S. That would be fun. The winner at the end of the year gets kick in the balls on its birthday.
 
2003-01-10 02:55:30 PM  
The system is intentionally adversarial. The defense attorney cannot reveal conversations that may hurt his (or her, Defender) client's chances at trial. By putting on a defense, I don't mean that the lawyer should claim at all times that his (or her) client is innocent, just that they have not been PROVEN guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
2003-01-10 03:00:17 PM  
It's actually cheaper to put him in for life. The Death Penalty Information Center online has some great statistics on this, and more information.

This is something I wish more people understood. I'm suprised it took so long to get brought up.

Defender since you are so well versed in all this legal mumbo jumbo, can you tell me why they sterilize the syringe before they inject the poison?

I remember my Science Fiction teacher talking about this subject and a study he had read that listed all they ways people have been put to death through out the years. At the end they talked about how they had nominated the top 5 forms of execution that might be appropriate for the US. I cannot remember the order, but they were

hanging - considered to... Spanish I believe? not sure on this, but I know that was one of the reasons they suggested not to go with it.
beheading - considered to English
firing squad - considered to military
electric chair - their selection for what would be the most American
this clamp thing you tighten on each side to crushes their neck - recommended, no other place had used this enough to make it truly theirs, and it was extremely easy clean up, but they were not sure how the American public would go for it.

The worst stories he had were for the hanging. One woman was to be hanged, and while hanging there she ended up vomiting and choked to death on it. Another person had tried to commit suicide by slicing their throat the day before the exection. The brilliant guards saw this and they rushed in and ended up saving him and had his throat sown back up. The next day as they went to hang him the stiches ripped open and he ended up breathing through the hole in his neck for like 12 hours just hanging there waiting to die. Brilliant.
 
2003-01-10 03:02:26 PM  
I realize i'm outnumbered here on fark---but unlike Squidloe, it is my job to make sure the wrong people aren't executed. Thus my name--defender. I currently represent 8 men on death row.

Obvious bias aside, i really do think the more one knows about how the death penalty system works in this country, the more you realize it just doesn't work. Whether you are morally opposed to the idea of the death penalty or not, economically and just in the sheer volume of time it takes up in our courts it's not worth it. Especially if you consider that less than 1% of the prison population that is on death row. Integrating that 3,000 into the over 2.5 million already in prison is not that big of a deal.


I wouldn't have your job believe me - but somebody has to do it.

But with the death penalty it's one less criminal that will get parole in which to do it again.

And yes I'm in Texas too and I work for attorneys but not the personal injury ones.

Do you know Jack McCoy? :)
 
2003-01-10 03:05:47 PM  
Killerbee, people that get Life with no parole don't do it again either, do they? (Unless it's another inmate I suppose)
 
2003-01-10 03:06:15 PM  
I love it that so many people miss the point of the counter, at least as I understood it when first I ventured on this hallowed ground. The counter was, at one time, run against the Texas total. Saudi Arabia, a country, vs. Texas, a state. And it is usually pretty close at the end. A whole country, versus a single state.

And, just because technicalities that are wrong piss me off, 01-10-03 02:48:46 PM I_got_nuthin needs to be reminded that the Bill of Rights is the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. Therefore, they are, in fact, in the Constitution.
Also, I don't think the majority of the argument against the death penalty is based on whether it's cruel and unusual. Instead, it centers on the morality of taking another's life, the expenses involved in doing so, adn the probability of getting the wrong man.
 
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