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(The Mind Unleashed)   Business blog says General Motors should be left to fail. Reader writes calm, collected rebuttal entitled "Here's why we need a GM bailout, you f*cker"   (clusterstock.com ) divider line
    More: Amusing  
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2476 clicks; posted to Business » on 12 Nov 2008 at 11:43 AM (8 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



37 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2008-11-12 10:52:51 AM  
I'd bail GM out anyday
 
2008-11-12 10:54:15 AM  
That's hot.
 
2008-11-12 10:54:19 AM  
The NaSkAr: I'd bail GM out anyday

Come on, admit it - you wrote the rebuttal...
 
2008-11-12 10:57:54 AM  
"Now, I am going to spend about 4-5 hours of QUALITY time supporting another great AMERICAN institution---NASCAR is racing at Phoenix...time for some enjoyment instead of worrying about the NEXT DEPRESSION."

ooooh, and there's where your credentials go right out the window.
 
2008-11-12 11:01:03 AM  
Come on people, get to bailing out. That wishlist isn't going to buy itself.
 
2008-11-12 11:05:08 AM  

Two Dogs Farking: Come on, admit it - you wrote the rebuttal...


maybe....

Genevieve Marie: Come on people, get to bailing out. That wishlist isn't going to buy itself.


what kind of satisfaction would I feel buying you something? I'm torn
 
2008-11-12 11:05:09 AM  
There should be a "fake bail-out" lottery, where, by random selection at the end of the year, 10% of the companies that get bailed out will become nationalized.
 
2008-11-12 11:05:11 AM  
Where do I get in line for the bailouts?
 
2008-11-12 11:07:38 AM  

The NaSkAr: I'd bail GM out anyday


Genevieve Marie: That's hot.


i248.photobucket.com
 
2008-11-12 11:09:55 AM  
The NaSkAr: what kind of satisfaction would I feel buying you something? I'm torn

Hmmm, what could that possibly BIE? Why do you BIElieve people participate in Fark Secret Santa time and time again?

MayBIE... could it BIE... BIE?
 
2008-11-12 11:10:17 AM  
Let em fail. That said I hate to see so many people become unemployed as a result. If the US companies stopped making CRAP and made cars worth buying it'd be different.
 
2008-11-12 11:17:01 AM  

Two Dogs Farking: Hmmm, what could that possibly BIE? Why do you BIElieve people participate in Fark Secret Santa time and time again?

MayBIE... could it BIE... BIE?


GM has standards unlike some of the others on here so I doubt that would ever happen
 
2008-11-12 11:19:48 AM  

The NaSkAr: GM has standards unlike some of the others on here so I doubt that would ever happen


This is true. BIE is never on the table
 
2008-11-12 11:21:21 AM  
This is why we need a real fiscal-conservative free-market party. The Republicans like to think they are, but they are really just plutocrats.

I don't think that free-market is always the solution, but it seems necessary to have some consistent, uncorrupt politicians who will argue that position. Too bad the Republicans got in bed with the Joe Six Pack religious freaks instead.
 
2008-11-12 11:22:50 AM  
It's a shame I don't have FUEL standards

I'll be here all week
 
2008-11-12 11:25:58 AM  
They need to fail so they can shed the UAW, its $30/hr menial laborers, and it's enormous pension plan.

For US automakers to compete with Japan and Korea this must happen. It'll be painful for the workers who are going to get farked but its what's best for the Country.
 
2008-11-12 11:27:50 AM  

Genevieve Marie: It's a shame I don't have FUEL standards

I'll be here all week


I'll give you an octane boost any day
 
2008-11-12 11:31:29 AM  

skitzo: They need to fail so they can shed the UAW, its $30/hr menial laborers, and it's enormous pension plan.

For US automakers to compete with Japan and Korea this must happen. It'll be painful for the workers who are going to get farked but its what's best for the Country.


IIRC didn't they already shift their pension plans to government balance sheets? but yes i agree - i spent a summer doing corporate finance with one of the big 3 and the labor costs relative to their non-union competition were absurd.
 
2008-11-12 11:51:55 AM  
I voted for Obama. I own a GM car.fark the lenders.fark General Motors.
 
2008-11-12 12:00:16 PM  
There should be no bailout. If they fail, it would be bad news because of the supporting industries that it would hurt. However, there would likely be someone to pick up the pieces and figure out how to do a better job of things. Also, I've been in automotive manufacturing plants and seen union workers making much $$ putting a piece of tape over a screw head before painting. This was years ago in a Mack truck plant, which is now gone. That sort of overpay cannot be sustained. Simple.
 
2008-11-12 12:11:21 PM  
img396.imageshack.us


Rome is burning. Who brought the marshmallows?
 
2008-11-12 12:18:15 PM  

skitzo: They need to fail so they can shed the UAW, its $30/hr menial laborers, and it's enormous pension plan.


EXACTLY
 
2008-11-12 12:31:25 PM  

skitzo: They need to fail so they can shed the UAW, its $30/hr menial laborers, and it's enormous pension plan.

For US automakers to compete with Japan and Korea this must happen. It'll be painful for the workers who are going to get farked but its what's best for the Country.


Those $30/hr jobs are practically nonexistent any more, but unionized manufacturing jobs do pay significantly more than nonunionized, which I believe was your point.

But, those jobs are what made the economy work, imo, by enabling a person to have a comfortable middle class lifestyle without a college education. Right now, people who don't go to college are faced with very few middle class options. Basically, those are the people who end up in the service industry, working as a burger flipper and maybe ending up as a manager of some McDonalds somewhere, then relying on Medicaid/Medicare for health problems and Social Security exclusively when they hit retirement.

It used to be everybody could find a job that would pay well, no matter how educated they were, provided they were willing to work hard enough. Those jobs would also provide health and retirement benefits from the private sector. Now, your non-college choices are basically the service industry, which often doesn't come with health insurance or retirement, making workers rely even more on government programs like Medicaid and Social Security.

So, eliminating those jobs without providing an alternative, such as job retraining or making higher education more affordable, will eventually hurt the economy even more than the short term effects of letting GM fail. Like the guys in TFA said, use the money for job retraining, supporting existing benefits, or find something else to replace those low education-high income jobs.

TL;DR: A line worker at GM is good for the country because he doesn't soak up Medicaid benefits or rely entirely on Social Security. He also makes enough to keep the economy going. And if those jobs go away, it hurts the country.
 
2008-11-12 12:52:43 PM  
Back in the day, there used to be a job delivering ice to people. See, no one had a method of keeping things cold so a guy walked around town with a huge chunk of ice and broke you off a piece as you needed it to keep things cold.

Then someone invented a better way, called the Refrigerator. And with that, the ice delivery jobs were completely eliminated.

Did the government bail out these companies? No. The ice deliverers lost their jobs and had to find new ones. In the meantime, the refrigerator manufacturing business created tons of jobs. Everyone was happy, except for the guys who invested their lives into ice delivery.

The problem with companies like GM is that we don't punish them for their mistakes. When the face of car manufacturing changed, GM, Ford and Chrysler all spat in that face. The continued on business as usual; telling people they wanted an SUV instead of looking ahead and the trend for more fuel-efficent cars. They continued to over-spend on ridiculous union contracts while Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai hired just-as-happy (if not happier) non-union workers at their American plants. And they continued to eschew quality for corner-cutting, and still over-priced their vehicles.

American car manufactures have learned NOTHING.

GM had a great opportunity about a year ago to let the union workers walk. Had I run GM and they threatened me with their strike, I would have said, "Every GM union worker has been terminated. We are now hiring for 1000s of non-union jobs, line forms on the left."

But even getting rid of the UAW and their ridiculous demands can't save a company that has no vision. These companies believe in telling the consumer what car they should buy, instead of building the cars that the consumer actually wants to buy.

The only lesson being learned is that we are not a capitalist society. If you fail, we'll bail you out and let you fail again. It's time to hit the reset button on everything that is failing. Make them learn from their mistakes and figure out a way to rebuild themselves.

Necessity is the father of invention.

From the ashes rises the Phoenix.
 
2008-11-12 12:53:07 PM  
I believe the author of this witty and insightful retort is a VP for the Truck Nutz Lobby.
 
2008-11-12 01:59:45 PM  
You know what, I lived through all this jingoistic bullshiat in the 80's, and my stance is the same now, as it was then, even before I could drive a car myself. Let them fail if they can't keep up.

Right now the Big 3 are like those kids that get trophies for losing.

And on the comment one reader made that "How about a level playing field for the Japanese, who can build plants here, but we can't over there".. Wow welcome to the '80's again, did you forget when, instead of actually forcing the big 3 to compete to stay viable you lobbied the Government to implement and raise tariffs on imports, say, like cars that stifled their ability to import, leading them to instead BUILD THEIR PLANTS HERE.

Yeah, how soon we forget.

They deserve to fail, they've deserved to fail since the late 1970's, so this has been a long time coming.

For anyone that thinks things will get better by bailing out the Big 3, well you're wrong, the damage is done, and won't be repaired by throwing Money at the Big3. Michigan is in a full blown DEPRESSION and it's where the rest of the Nation is headed in short order if we keep rewarding failure.
 
2008-11-12 02:17:10 PM  
The thing that would help GM and Ford most would be socialized health care.
 
2008-11-12 02:35:56 PM  

Genevieve Marie: I'm hot.


FTFY.
 
2008-11-12 02:55:01 PM  
Short-sighted fools. Do they even teach American history in schools anymore?

How about a class on oil crises since the 1970s and their effects on the market shares of automakers who are too slow to adapt?
 
2008-11-12 03:08:17 PM  
StubePT:

THIS, Jib, Newsletter, subscribe.
 
2008-11-12 03:14:29 PM  
http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html

Interesting read..I have verified nmmost of ,and been to Japan in my current position and experienced / seen it.

Give your self time though it is not a small read.
 
2008-11-12 03:39:12 PM  
I stopped reading at the part where the guy said U.S. companies can't build cars overseas. They already do, and have for quite a bit of time.
 
2008-11-12 05:24:15 PM  
They are burning through a billion dollars a month. Do you know how much $ that is? Imagine one million dollars. Now imagine a million times that. Jesus Christ you can't keep running a giant car company setup with divisions and product overlap designed to have 50% market share when they have what, a little over 20?

They need to go bankrupt and kill a couple divisions. The taxpayers can't keep being a well of endless cash when we are $10 trillion in debt.
 
2008-11-12 05:57:29 PM  
i123.photobucket.com
 
2008-11-12 06:36:34 PM  

Farking Sweet: They are burning through a billion dollars a month. Do you know how much $ that is? Imagine one million dollars. Now imagine a million times that.


Err... one million times one million is one trillion, not one billion.

You were off by a factor of 1,000.
 
2008-11-12 06:38:30 PM  
Unless, of course, you're from Europe. But, then again, GM is an American company, and would be using the American definition of "billion."
 
2008-11-13 01:54:20 AM  

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: I stopped reading at the part where the guy said U.S. companies can't build cars overseas. They already do, and have for quite a bit of time.


Which models are built in Japan? In Korea?

Those are the two countries he mentioned.
 
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