To be fair, Rodgers is having a decent season... statistically better than Favre.

Looks like the right move to me.

At least the local press isn't guzzling the Favre Kool-Aid. It seems the only person reveling in Farvlatio now is Madden.

mr_a 2008-11-12 06:46:18 AM In a strange coincidence, the NYJ went from 4-12 in 2007 to 6-3 so far this season.
====================

Yup! Yes, most of their wins have been against shiat teams... but going from the basement of the NFL to probably making the wildcard is a significant improvement.

My guess for them was 8-8.

MugzyBrown: To be fair, Rodgers is having a decent season... statistically better than Favre.

Looks like the right move to me.

I cant argue with that. Rodgers is playing well. Its their run game, and pourous defense thats giving up the games. But what about the Brett Favre Magic. Thats what the Packers dont have anymore, is the magic. Bretts got a little magic in him. And I bet the Pack wish they had it right now.

You know, the Packers don't stink. Everyone that's beaten them is still a playoff contender.

jake3988: mr_a 2008-11-12 06:46:18 AM In a strange coincidence, the NYJ went from 4-12 in 2007 to 6-3 so far this season.
====================

Yup! Yes, most of their wins have been against shiat teams... but going from the basement of the NFL to probably making the wildcard is a significant improvement.

My guess for them was 8-8.

Man it might not seem like much right now, but wins against the Cards, Bills, and Dolphins were all big wins for the Jets and by no means easy. The dolphins have beaten teams who were predicted to be better than the jets and have beaten the Jets. The Bills are solid. And the Cards are one of the best NFC teams. After this thursday, they hopefully will be 7-3 heading into the biggest game of the season. IF they can somehow beat the titans. That would blow the AFC wide open.

Wait, doesn't this mean that Mangini is just Mangenius again, or he is still a moron?

/Also, wtf happened to Ryan Grant?

21st overall defense and 23rd rushing offense has nothing to do with the QB.

mr_a: In a strange coincidence, the NYJ went from 4-12 in 2007 to 6-3 so far this season.

To be fair, that turnaround is more the result of the improvement on the offensive and defensive lines than anything Favre has done.

The O-Line was crippled last year after the Jets traded Pete Kendall during training camp

On defense this Jets team is actually capable of stopping the run, something they haven't been able to do since...I really can't remember.

If you wanted to, you could make the argument that Pennington might have been a better fit for this team since he was already familiar with the offense and wouldn't have thrown a shiat-ton of interceptions by now. Chad with an effective Thomas Jones would have been a completely different player than he was last year. The improved o-line probably would have kept him healthier, too.

BertDog: mr_a: In a strange coincidence, the NYJ went from 4-12 in 2007 to 6-3 so far this season.

To be fair, that turnaround is more the result of the improvement on the offensive and defensive lines than anything Favre has done.

The O-Line was crippled last year after the Jets traded Pete Kendall during training camp

On defense this Jets team is actually capable of stopping the run, something they haven't been able to do since...I really can't remember.

If you wanted to, you could make the argument that Pennington might have been a better fit for this team since he was already familiar with the offense and wouldn't have thrown a shiat-ton of interceptions by now. Chad with an effective Thomas Jones would have been a completely different player than he was last year. The improved o-line probably would have kept him healthier, too.

yea but who knows if the holes would be open for Jones if the deep ball threat wasnt there. I dont know, its hard to say. Could go either way. But im not sure we win that game aginst the Cardinals with Pennington. However we probably dont lost to Oakland either.

Even now, with the Packers teetering on the edge of playoff contention, it's still the right call.

Playoffs? Are you kidding me?

oryx: Even now, with the Packers teetering on the edge of playoff contention, it's still the right call.

Playoffs? Are you kidding me?

They jsut lost to the Vikes. Im pretty sure they are not playoff bound.

oryx: Even now, with the Packers teetering on the edge of playoff contention, it's still the right call.

Playoffs? Are you kidding me?

They're 1 game out of the division lead. They split with minnesota and have 2 games left with the bears. The playoffs are not out of reach by any means.

spacechicken170am: 21st overall defense and 23rd rushing offense has nothing to do with the QB.

a good QB can make the passes to force the defense to switch to a pass defense which makes running easier. a good QB can keep the offense on the field longer which gives the D more time to rest.

a good QB will effect every aspect of the game.

oryx: Even now, with the Packers teetering on the edge of playoff contention, it's still the right call.

Playoffs? Are you kidding me?



/Playoffs?!
//warning: link is hot

Green Bay lost my respect when they put Farve out on the street after he took them to the playoffs last year

They did a really cute media smear job then sent him packing after the coaching staff alienated him

I dont care if the guy is a 60 year old zombie, if he led you to the playoffs the year before, he still has the job

I really really really pray that when he goes to retire his jersey next year at the halftime event of their season opener he is wearing a Jets Super Bowl ring

smerfnablin: Green Bay lost my respect when they put Farve out on the street after he took them to the playoffs last year

Uhm, he RETIRED. Then, 2 weeks before training camp, decided he farked up with that decision. Then he threw a hissy fit when the team said he'd have to try out instead of just automatically giving him his old job back.

He turned into a prima donna, fark him.

TommyBahama: spacechicken170am: 21st overall defense and 23rd rushing offense has nothing to do with the QB.

a good QB can make the passes to force the defense to switch to a pass defense which makes running easier. a good QB can keep the offense on the field longer which gives the D more time to rest.

a good QB will effect every aspect of the game.

Bullshiat. Show me a great QB that has no defense and no run game and I'll show you a QB with a losing record.

The Packers are 1 game behind the divison.

Bears - 5-4
Vikings - 5-4
Packers - 4-5
Lions - 0-10004

They are still in contention for a playoff spot. However, with the success of the NFC south, getting a wild card spot will be difficult. The last two games are games that The Packers had a realistic chance in winning. Last year, they won those games, this year they have not. It has nothing to do with Aaron Rodgers or Brett Favre either. Although, I am impressed with how our 2nd and 3rd string DB's have played this year.

Lundah: smerfnablin: Green Bay lost my respect when they put Farve out on the street after he took them to the playoffs last year

Uhm, he RETIRED. Then, 2 weeks before training camp, decided he farked up with that decision. Then he threw a hissy fit when the team said he'd have to try out instead of just automatically giving him his old job back.

He turned into a prima donna, fark him.

No matter how many times that argument is made, it remains to be one of the lamest I've ever heard.

First of all, I'm pretty sure he was forced out by the coach and general manager. Granted, he ultimately made the call, but he obviously wasn't completely comfortable with it.

Secondly, any prima donna tendencies Favre has comes from the decade and a half of fellatio he received from Packers fans for making their team relevant for the first time since the sixties.

Finally, there's at least 4 guys at my company that 'retired', but come back every year to run a job somewhere. No one freaks out because they retired. They are happy they returned because they know their jobs and still do great work.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rodgers has a lot of talent. He doesn't have the intangibles that come with a veteran QB like Favre, though.

spacechicken170am: TommyBahama: spacechicken170am: 21st overall defense and 23rd rushing offense has nothing to do with the QB.

a good QB can make the passes to force the defense to switch to a pass defense which makes running easier. a good QB can keep the offense on the field longer which gives the D more time to rest.

a good QB will effect every aspect of the game.

Bullshiat. Show me a great QB that has no defense and no run game and I'll show you a QB with a losing record.

im saying a great QB can make the run game better because the defense has to work to protect the pass, it doesnt have to be great but it will look better than it probably is, a "great" QB on a team that can't run or stop the others probably isn't have a "great" year

again, the defense will look better because a good QB is keeping them off the field to stay rested and force the other team's offense to have to pass more to make up the points as quickly as possible

spacechicken170am: TommyBahama: spacechicken170am: 21st overall defense and 23rd rushing offense has nothing to do with the QB.

a good QB can make the passes to force the defense to switch to a pass defense which makes running easier. a good QB can keep the offense on the field longer which gives the D more time to rest.

No kidding. Look at the packers the 2 yrs previous to last year. The Pack can't run the ball and should have never given all that money to Grant for only 1 good 1/2 a season.
a good QB will effect every aspect of the game.

Bullshiat. Show me a great QB that has no defense and no run game and I'll show you a QB with a losing record.

3 of our losses have come by a TOTAL of 7 points.

Rodgers is pretty decent for being in his FIRST STARTING SEASON. Sure, his two safeties cost us the Vikings game. The line didn't block anyone though. the same way they don't block when we're trying to run the ball.

If only our offensive line had to face our D in the run game, we'd be set.

As a lifelong Packers fan (borne and raised about an hour from Lambeau) and a stockholder, I can say I don't think things are too bad.

Would I rather be 9-0? Hell yes.

The losses have been losses and, for the most part, close enough games. Rodgers is doing a fine job. THe O-line needs consistency. THe running game is weak as hell as a result.

The pass D is fine, the run D sucks ass though, and losing Barnett for the year makes it worse, but we'll get by.

I don't harbor any ill will towards Brett personally, I'm just really farking tired of hearing about it. I think ALL of them acting like whiny little biatches throughout the whole affair. It was 'he said, she said' with all the emotional dramatic flair only 7th grade girls can master.

TommyBahama: spacechicken170am: TommyBahama: spacechicken170am: 21st overall defense and 23rd rushing offense has nothing to do with the QB.

a good QB can make the passes to force the defense to switch to a pass defense which makes running easier. a good QB can keep the offense on the field longer which gives the D more time to rest.

a good QB will effect every aspect of the game.

Bullshiat. Show me a great QB that has no defense and no run game and I'll show you a QB with a losing record.

im saying a great QB can make the run game better because the defense has to work to protect the pass, it doesnt have to be great but it will look better than it probably is, a "great" QB on a team that can't run or stop the others probably isn't have a "great" year

again, the defense will look better because a good QB is keeping them off the field to stay rested and force the other team's offense to have to pass more to make up the points as quickly as possible

Ah yes, that's better.

TommyBahama: spacechicken170am: TommyBahama: spacechicken170am: 21st overall defense and 23rd rushing offense has nothing to do with the QB.

a good QB can make the passes to force the defense to switch to a pass defense which makes running easier. a good QB can keep the offense on the field longer which gives the D more time to rest.

a good QB will effect every aspect of the game.

Bullshiat. Show me a great QB that has no defense and no run game and I'll show you a QB with a losing record.

im saying a great QB can make the run game better because the defense has to work to protect the pass, it doesnt have to be great but it will look better than it probably is, a "great" QB on a team that can't run or stop the others probably isn't have a "great" year

again, the defense will look better because a good QB is keeping them off the field to stay rested and force the other team's offense to have to pass more to make up the points as quickly as possible

In certain situations I would agree but Aaron Rodgers is doing a great job and their run game and defense still suck.

if everyone was a robot, and play consistently at their skill level than I would say something like "Favre Magic"...but really there is that factor.

Having an exciting QB with a good execution rate just does something mentally for a team. Picks up their all together game and makes it better.

I know my jobs easier when someone makes it seem more fun than a job.

When I see Favre on the field, he looks like he's pumping everyone up.

ihatedumbpeople: 3 of our losses have come by a TOTAL of 7 points.


Yeah, but most teams can say something like that with the parity in the league. In all 4 of the Vikings losses, they have had the ball within the last 4 minutes of the game with a chance to tie or go ahead.

Rodgers got rattled by the Vikings defense. Would Favre have performed better in that situation? Maybe a little, which could have meant a lot in that game. On a side note - WTF was McCarthy doing playing for the very long field goal try at the end. It seems that after the fluke tip and Driver catch he just decided to lay down and wait for Crosby to hit it.

Farkn Yaj Yenrac: Finally, there's at least 4 guys at my company that 'retired', but come back every year to run a job somewhere. No one freaks out because they retired. They are happy they returned because they know their jobs and still do great work.

Right, but if you retire, and you want to come back, you can't dictate the terms. That's where it got farked up. The team was willing to let him earn his job back, but they weren't going to just make him the starter after 6 months just because he wanted it.

IIRC they have already played more teams with winning records than they played all last year. And they haven't even played the Bears yet, who add another one.

Meanwhile, the Jets' opponents had something like a .400 winning percentage BEFORE they played the Rams. We'll see how they do with the rest of the season, playing 4 games on the road, with the two bad teams being cross-country trips (considering how they biffed the game against the Raiders, it's entirely possible for those to wind up being losses).

In fact, now that I checked it: 7 of the Packers' 9 opponents thus far have winning records.

Last year, over the entire season, they played 4 winning teams. Shockingly, they're not performing as well. It's almost like playing better teams makes it harder to win.

vinnydoz007: But im not sure we win that game aginst the Cardinals with Pennington.

If you can't win a game being given SEVEN turnovers, you don't belong in the NFL.

ihatedumbpeople: Sure, his two safeties cost us the Vikings game.

Also, good point and I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice it, from TMQ:

"On one Vikings safety, the sprinting-backwards Rodgers was falling down in the end zone and underhand-flipped a pass in the general direction of a Packers' receiver. Referee Alberto Riveron called a safety, announcing to the crowd that the penalty was "illegal forward pass." But illegal forward pass is a 5-yard penalty, and only major penalties committed in the end zone are safeties. Plus, Rodgers' pass was not illegal, it's perfectly legal to throw underhanded. An illegal forward pass is called when someone throws forward after crossing the line of scrimmage, which obviously was not the case here. If the call had been intentional grounding from the end zone, that's a safety. What happened did not appear to be intentional grounding, considering the pass came near an eligible Green Bay receiver."

Lundah: Right, but if you retire, and you want to come back, you can't dictate the terms. That's where it got farked up. The team was willing to let him earn his job back, but they weren't going to just make him the starter after 6 months just because he wanted it.

True enough, but the team had no interest in letting Favre win his job back.

I don't care what statistics anyone throws up--Favre-led teams win football games. Favre played behind the same offensive line last year, and protection was lacking then too. He has a much quicker read progression and release than Rodgers does at this point in his career, and that hid the inherent weakness of the line. Favre's quick reads often lead to interceptions, but they have also lead to quick slants turned up-field for 80 yard touchdowns. That's part of the fun of watching him: he's the most exciting roller coaster ride in sports. I wouldn't argue that he's the best QB of all-time, but I would definitely say that he's been the most fun to watch.

hahaha!

The jets are 6-3 in their division, arguably the toughest in football. The Packers under 500 in the NFC North, arguably the weakest in football. Da Bears are still in first place and are playing like shiat! They should be 6 and 1 right now. The packers don't have a QB problem as much as a leadership problem. That's something you can't replace with a young strong arm.\

The Jets believe they can win everytime the step on the field. It's not that they are that much of a better team this year, they just think they have a chance to win. On this level every team is a good team. Some players just know how to win better than others. Take it from me a die hard Bears fan, packers fans have no freaking idea how good they have had it for the better half of the last two decades. You are a bunch of fat spoiled cheesehead mutherfarkers that tried to fix something that wasn't broke.

The Packers are now (as I have said for months now) a classic young team with plenty of talent but no leadership. They are a dime a dozen in the NFL. They ran one of the greatest leaders of all time out of town when they were 3 points from being in the superbowl. This franchise was build by Farve. They are now going to go to shiat and have no one to blame but themselves for it. I'm loving every minute of it.

The Bears are going to beat the every loving shiat out of them this weekend.

IAmRight: vinnydoz007: But im not sure we win that game aginst the Cardinals with Pennington.

If you can't win a game being given SEVEN turnovers, you don't belong in the NFL.

ihatedumbpeople: Sure, his two safeties cost us the Vikings game.

Also, good point and I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice it, from TMQ:

"On one Vikings safety, the sprinting-backwards Rodgers was falling down in the end zone and underhand-flipped a pass in the general direction of a Packers' receiver. Referee Alberto Riveron called a safety, announcing to the crowd that the penalty was "illegal forward pass." But illegal forward pass is a 5-yard penalty, and only major penalties committed in the end zone are safeties. Plus, Rodgers' pass was not illegal, it's perfectly legal to throw underhanded. An illegal forward pass is called when someone throws forward after crossing the line of scrimmage, which obviously was not the case here. If the call had been intentional grounding from the end zone, that's a safety. What happened did not appear to be intentional grounding, considering the pass came near an eligible Green Bay receiver."

the game would have played out much differently if it were Pennington. Perhaps you arent someone who watches football. But basically, even with the turnovers, the game was really high scoring, and Pennington, im just not sure he would have gotten it done, and as a result, there probably wouldnt have been as many turnovers.

MFL: The Jets believe they can win everytime the step on the field. It's not that they are that much of a better team this year, they just think they have a chance to win.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with playing the AFC West and the NFC West (the ACTUAL two worst divisions in the NFL)...and btw, they're 0-2 on the west coast, and they've yet to play the two other away games against the NFC West. I'm sure it has nothing to do with beating opponents that are a combined 32-49, for a .395 win pct. But let's be stupid and pretend that they're where they are because their division is tough. Their division is probably worse; they just get to face easier teams.

The NFC North got to play the AFC West last year, which can account for the wins from last year, too.

Unless you really are dumb enough to believe that the Jets got this good because of Favre, the Dolphins got good because of Pennington, the Bills put it all together, AND the Pats have been able to deal with the loss of the league's MVP and half their defense because that's just how great they are. Yeah...or they all have the easiest schedules in the NFL.

Young Black Dolph Lundgren: Favre played behind the same offensive line last year

Chad Clifton, Pro Bowler: 16 starts last year
Chad Clifton, one year later: sustained hamstring injury against Atlanta, had allergic reaction to painkiller before Tennessee game, missed that; can't really practice, came back for the first time in about 3 weeks and got destroyed last weekend. Yeah, that's the same. But hey, LT is only the most important lineman.

The RG is a rookie now, too. So hey, roughly 40% of the line is different...but let's keep SAYING it's the same because that will make it true!

BTW, now that I've seen the replay a few more times...that was a terrible call on the "illegal forward pass" which a) wasn't illegal and b) they clearly MEANT intentional grounding...but it wasn't that either since there was a receiver in the vicinity. I like how the head of officiating says "it's a good call because I don't think he saw the guy he was throwing to"...what the f*ck? You can't f*cking base it on "this is what I think someone else sees". The ball was thrown in the direction and relatively close to an eligible receiver. It, by definition, is not intentional grounding.

Nice of him to admit the refs screwed up by not giving a 15 yard penalty to Peterson for removing his helmet after his TD on the field. Hey, it's not like those 15 yards wound up mattering or anything.

MFL: hahaha!

The jets are 6-3 in their division, arguably the toughest in football. The Packers under 500 in the NFC North, arguably the weakest in football. Da Bears are still in first place and are playing like shiat! They should be 6 and 1 right now. The packers don't have a QB problem as much as a leadership problem. That's something you can't replace with a young strong arm.\

The Jets believe they can win everytime the step on the field. It's not that they are that much of a better team this year, they just think they have a chance to win. On this level every team is a good team. Some players just know how to win better than others. Take it from me a die hard Bears fan, packers fans have no freaking idea how good they have had it for the better half of the last two decades. You are a bunch of fat spoiled cheesehead mutherfarkers that tried to fix something that wasn't broke.

The Packers are now (as I have said for months now) a classic young team with plenty of talent but no leadership. They are a dime a dozen in the NFL. They ran one of the greatest leaders of all time out of town when they were 3 points from being in the superbowl. This franchise was build by Farve. They are now going to go to shiat and have no one to blame but themselves for it. I'm loving every minute of it.

The Bears are going to beat the every loving shiat out of them this weekend.

I have to agree. I mean listen Ive harped on and on about how Favre really wasnt as much of a dick as people made him out to be. Ill sum it up. He was pressured into retiring. as a result he made the decision to retire, quicker than he wanted too. As time went on, he decided to come back. When he decided to come back, he knew that the team was grooming Rodgers and was adjusting the offense as such, so what did he say, Trade me or release me. Thats that. Im not really sure why that makes him such a dick in some peoples eyes. And personally with all Farve had done for that franchise, he pretty much a get out of anything free card. As this guy said, with Favre the jets have a completely different swagger. And I have to give favre some credit there. He has something that seems to take the edge off the other players. Its an intangible, that few QBs have. Did he throw a ton of ints, yes. But they were asking him to do to much. I expect the ints to go down a lot in the next 7 games, primarily because they have faith in the run now. As for the Packers, listen Rodgers is great. But apparantly he doesnt bring as much to the table as Favre did. while athletically hes a hell of a player, Favre is still Favre, and apparantly that was enough for the Jets to wake the hell up. It kick started them. And they are rolling now.

vinnydoz007: the game would have played out much differently if it were Pennington. Perhaps you arent someone who watches football. But basically, even with the turnovers, the game was really high scoring, and Pennington, im just not sure he would have gotten it done, and as a result, there probably wouldnt have been as many turnovers.

It's weird how Pennington has made the Dolphins just about as good as the Jets, even though the Dolphins have WAY less talent on offense than the Jets do.

Hell, Pennington might've scored more. The Cardinals gave the ball away 6 times in the first half. 5 Jets possessions in the first half started on the Cardinals' side of the field. I know it's the cool thing to do now to pretend that Pennington couldn't do anything...but when he was healthy the guy was pretty damn good for you guys. And it's pretty hard to come back in one half when you spotted the other team the ball for the whole half. Maybe they don't win by as much, but they easily win.

/unless you think Favre's INT after the first turnover was engineered to make the Cardinals not worry about turning the ball over because Favre would give it back to them

IAmRight: MFL: The Jets believe they can win everytime the step on the field. It's not that they are that much of a better team this year, they just think they have a chance to win.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with playing the AFC West and the NFC West (the ACTUAL two worst divisions in the NFL)...and btw, they're 0-2 on the west coast, and they've yet to play the two other away games against the NFC West. I'm sure it has nothing to do with beating opponents that are a combined 32-49, for a .395 win pct. But let's be stupid and pretend that they're where they are because their division is tough. Their division is probably worse; they just get to face easier teams.

The NFC North got to play the AFC West last year, which can account for the wins from last year, too.

Unless you really are dumb enough to believe that the Jets got this good because of Favre, the Dolphins got good because of Pennington, the Bills put it all together, AND the Pats have been able to deal with the loss of the league's MVP and half their defense because that's just how great they are. Yeah...or they all have the easiest schedules in the NFL.

Young Black Dolph Lundgren: Favre played behind the same offensive line last year

Chad Clifton, Pro Bowler: 16 starts last year
Chad Clifton, one year later: sustained hamstring injury against Atlanta, had allergic reaction to painkiller before Tennessee game, missed that; can't really practice, came back for the first time in about 3 weeks and got destroyed last weekend. Yeah, that's the same. But hey, LT is only the most important lineman.

The RG is a rookie now, too. So hey, roughly 40% of the line is different...but let's keep SAYING it's the same because that will make it true!

BTW, now that I've seen the replay a few more times...that was a terrible call on the "illegal forward pass" which a) wasn't illegal and b) they clearly MEANT intentional grounding...but it wasn't that either since there was a receiver in the vicinity. I like how the head of officiating says "it's a good call because I don't think he saw the guy he was throwing to"...what the f*ck? You can't f*cking base it on "this is what I think someone else sees". The ball was thrown in the direction and relatively close to an eligible receiver. It, by definition, is not intentional grounding.

Nice of him to admit the refs screwed up by not giving a 15 yard penalty to Peterson for removing his helmet after his TD on the field. Hey, it's not like those 15 yards wound up mattering or anything.

If you think that the AFC east is weak, you just plain dumb man. Sorry. I mean they may not be the strongest division in the league, but they are up there. Pats, Bills, and Miami are all playing very strong football, and have proven they can compete. To just say that there all so close in record because they all suck is just as dumb as saying they are all close in record because they are all really good. So im not sure what that means. And who cares about west coast vs east coast. Not one west coast team has won on the east coast. Not one. So i fail to see how this is so monumental.

vinnydoz007: It kick started them. And they are rolling now.

Now that they have been playing, in the last 5 weeks, the Bengals, Raiders, Chiefs, Bills, and Rams.

Wow, that's crazy awesome leadership right there! However did you manage to beat those powerhouses with their 11 combined wins (one of them over the Jets)?

IAmRight: vinnydoz007: the game would have played out much differently if it were Pennington. Perhaps you arent someone who watches football. But basically, even with the turnovers, the game was really high scoring, and Pennington, im just not sure he would have gotten it done, and as a result, there probably wouldnt have been as many turnovers.

It's weird how Pennington has made the Dolphins just about as good as the Jets, even though the Dolphins have WAY less talent on offense than the Jets do.

Hell, Pennington might've scored more. The Cardinals gave the ball away 6 times in the first half. 5 Jets possessions in the first half started on the Cardinals' side of the field. I know it's the cool thing to do now to pretend that Pennington couldn't do anything...but when he was healthy the guy was pretty damn good for you guys. And it's pretty hard to come back in one half when you spotted the other team the ball for the whole half. Maybe they don't win by as much, but they easily win.

/unless you think Favre's INT after the first turnover was engineered to make the Cardinals not worry about turning the ball over because Favre would give it back to them

First of all, I love Chad P. I always have, and it sucks that he had to go. It really does, but I do firmly believe, we would not be as competitive with him at QB, than with Favre. The game changes completely. while Pennington is having success in Miami, you cant deny that the coaching is winning most of these games. Plain and simple, sure Pennington is playing well, but their coach is guiding that team right now. Hes making them a contender, with the wild cat. I understand your point about having 7 turnovers, but my point is that, the game would probably have not played out the same with Pennington there. One missed Td and the pressure would be on the jets and not the Cards. Which chanegs the whole game.

IAmRight: vinnydoz007: It kick started them. And they are rolling now.

Now that they have been playing, in the last 5 weeks, the Bengals, Raiders, Chiefs, Bills, and Rams.

Wow, that's crazy awesome leadership right there! However did you manage to beat those powerhouses with their 11 combined wins (one of them over the Jets)?

I never said leadership. I said he gives them confidence, obviously he gives them leadership, but its the confidence thats making this team. This is the NFL. Winning any game is big, by any score, so you can say what you want about their compitition, but as the season progresses the Jets are getting better and better, and thats what you want. Clearly we are not going to see eye to eye, but im sorry you just cant argue with what Favre has done for this team. Clearly the revamped o-line and D line are big factors, but Favres brings something else to this team that we never had. Confidence, as ive stated before.

Station: /Also, wtf happened to Ryan Grant?

He got a big contract over the off-season. Looks like it could be a case of "Antonio Freeman's Disease", where having to tote a fat wallet slows you down a step or two.

Or, it could be that the offensive line sucks rocks this year, compared to last.

vinnydoz007: If you think that the AFC east is weak, you just plain dumb man. Sorry. I mean they may not be the strongest division in the league, but they are up there. Pats, Bills, and Miami are all playing very strong football, and have proven they can compete. To just say that there all so close in record because they all suck is just as dumb as saying they are all close in record because they are all really good. So im not sure what that means. And who cares about west coast vs east coast. Not one west coast team has won on the east coast. Not one. So i fail to see how this is so monumental.

It matters because the Jets have played 3 of the games where the west coast teams have to go east. They have played 2 of the games where they have to go west. They are 0-2 in the games where they've gone west, they are 3-0 when they are playing the teams at home. It's my way of saying that even the patsies left on their schedule (after their recent stretch of playing almost every horrible team in the league) might not be so easy. If they can lose in Oakland, they can lose in San Francisco or Seattle. And the rest of the teams they have to play are winning teams.

Seriously, the reason the AFC East is so "much improved" over last season is the schedules. Last year they played the AFC North (combined record: 32-32) and NFC East (combined record: 40-24).

This year they instead play the AFC West (combined record: 12-24) and NFC West (combined record: 12-24).

You think that maybe going from playing some of the top divisions in football to playing the worst will make your division look better?

The Packers have outscored opponents by 34 points. Their opponents have been outscored by a combined 13 points (even though the Cowboys with Romo, when they played them, are much different than the team that's been getting their asses kicked over the past few weeks and now have a -3 points differential (they'd be at +37 if you don't count the Johnson weeks)).

The Jets have outscored opponents by 65 points. Their opponents have been outscored by a combined 346 points.

Each team's remaining opponents are at -8 for the season.

IAmRight: vinnydoz007: If you think that the AFC east is weak, you just plain dumb man. Sorry. I mean they may not be the strongest division in the league, but they are up there. Pats, Bills, and Miami are all playing very strong football, and have proven they can compete. To just say that there all so close in record because they all suck is just as dumb as saying they are all close in record because they are all really good. So im not sure what that means. And who cares about west coast vs east coast. Not one west coast team has won on the east coast. Not one. So i fail to see how this is so monumental.

It matters because the Jets have played 3 of the games where the west coast teams have to go east. They have played 2 of the games where they have to go west. They are 0-2 in the games where they've gone west, they are 3-0 when they are playing the teams at home. It's my way of saying that even the patsies left on their schedule (after their recent stretch of playing almost every horrible team in the league) might not be so easy. If they can lose in Oakland, they can lose in San Francisco or Seattle. And the rest of the teams they have to play are winning teams.

Seriously, the reason the AFC East is so "much improved" over last season is the schedules. Last year they played the AFC North (combined record: 32-32) and NFC East (combined record: 40-24).

This year they instead play the AFC West (combined record: 12-24) and NFC West (combined record: 12-24).

You think that maybe going from playing some of the top divisions in football to playing the worst will make your division look better?

The league is completely different from last year. So I dont think this applies as much as you may think. And you still basically just saying they are the Jets and they are capable of losing any game. which I cant personally argue with because I've been a Jets fan all my life and Ive seen it. Personally as I stated, they are getting better every week. And its visably better. IF they win tommorow nite in new england they can carry that confidence into the Titans game. Will they win, probably not. The titans are very good, but if they stay competitive they can win. Clearly if you lose to the raiders you can lose to anyone, and I never said our schedule was a cakewalk, but I think we take the 49ers and and Seashawks down no problem. You havent really given any concrete reason for why they would lose other than, they are the Jets. So I dont know what to say really. Bottom line is this, the Jets are getting better every week, and if they continue, they are making the playoffs and very possibly winning the division. Thats good enough for me.

Last year the Jets had a -87 points differential against teams that outscored their opponents by a combined 223 points.

Last year the Packers had a +144 points differential against teams that were outscored by their opponents by a combined 344 points.

The Jets' schedule got a million times easier and the Packers' schedule got a million times harder. There is your difference in performance.

vinnydoz007: Clearly if you lose to the raiders you can lose to anyone, and I never said our schedule was a cakewalk, but I think we take the 49ers and and Seashawks down no problem. You havent really given any concrete reason for why they would lose other than, they are the Jets.

All I'm saying is y'all need to knock off the BS about "we went from 4-12 to 6-3 so far and it's all because of Favre" bullsh*t. It's not necessarily you, I'm just saying, if you look at things logically, they've played a much easier schedule than they did last year...therefore OF COURSE they're going to be better. They would've been better with the same exact team. (not necessarily the same amount, but they would've been better). And the Packers would've been worse this year even with the same exact players, because they're playing better teams.

The fact that divisions change from year to year is irrelevant. The stuff I'm talking about only even talks about play within a year. That's why I used last year's records when calculating who they played against last year and this year's records for the teams' performances this year. Last year they were playing the equivalent of the 2008 LA Dodgers, a solid team that won its division and went to the playoffs. This year their average team is the 2008 San Diego Padres, the team that finished dead last and 21 games behind the Dodgers.

You think your record would improve if you went from facing the Dodgers every game to facing the Padres?