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(Denver Post)   Residents worry surge of cell phone towers disguised as trees may be exposing them to harmful microwave radiation, refuse to stand for it   (denverpost.com) divider line 178
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11748 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Nov 2008 at 3:47 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-11-09 04:23:18 PM
lajimi: If some company wants to build a cell tower on my property I may have a problem with that will cheerfully take their rent money. EIP!
 
2008-11-09 04:24:25 PM
RedLeg1525: I wonder if in the 60's FM radio had the same type people railing against it.

How about people who were paranoid about microwave ovens when they first came out --- but then someone figured out you could make popcorn in one and, well, that fight was over.
 
2008-11-09 04:25:45 PM
Torque420: There is no scientific evidence to support any increased rates of cancer due to exposure to power lines or phone towers. Several studies have looked at the effects of radio waves and microwaves combined; these have generally not shown any increase in cancer, except for a US Air Force study that suggested an increase in brain tumors in association with radiofrequency/microwave exposure. The World Health Organization stated in 1993 that "the epidemiologic and comparative clinical studies do not provide clear evidence of detrimental health effects in humans from exposure to RF fields. Occupational exposure to RF will be at higher levels than that encountered by the general population, and, thus, there is less likelihood of health effects in the general population as a whole."

A study recently published in the British journal The Lancet (Vol. 354) found no association between electromagnetic fields (EMF) and childhood cancer.
Lead author Nick Day, PhD, professor of epidemiology at Cambridge University, and colleagues studied 2,226 children in the United Kingdom from infancy to age 14 with a confirmed cancer. Those children were compared with a control group of cancer-free children matched for date of birth and sex.
The researchers took measurements of EMF exposures at the children's homes - including the proximity and type of overhead power lines nearby and electrical appliances in the homes. They also measured exposures at schools or other institutions attended by the children.
"We find no evidence that magnetic fields associated with the electricity supply increase risk of childhood leukemia, malignant brain tumors, or any other childhood cancer," the study authors wrote.
They added, "The degrees of exposure were low compared with other studies reported from North America, probably because of differences in the operating characteristics of the electricity supply and wiring practices. Our results are consistent with those of larger studies on childhood leukemia that used measured fields and population based studies... ."

The researchers said an overview of all available data from studies of childhood leukemia with measured exposures to EMF is underway.
Michael Thun, MD, vice president of epidemiology and surveillance research for the American Cancer Society (ACS), said the new study is a strong one. "This is really a very nice, large, population-based study. It found no evidence of an association of EMF and acute lymphoclastic leukemia, all leukemias, central nervous system tumors, and all other malignant disease."
Studying the relationship of EMF to cancer is extraordinarily difficult, partly because it is difficult to measure exposures, Dr. Thun said. "This study went to great lengths to capture the major sources of exposure," he added.
The study's findings parallel those of a 1997 study that found no relationship to EMF and the most common types of childhood leukemia, according to Dr. Thun.
However, an editorial accompanying the study points out that there were not enough children with high category exposures to assess their risk reliably. A major childhood leukemia study currently underway in Japan is expected to address this issue.
Cancers in children account for only one in 360, or 0.3 percent, of all cancers. Every year, about 130 new childhood cancers are diagnosed for every 1 million children. However, cancer is the second leading cause of death in children under 14 years of age


Its all fun and games until someone comes in and posts bold and centered.
 
2008-11-09 04:25:53 PM
This is example 1,465,834 of why we can't have nice things.
 
2008-11-09 04:26:09 PM
It all depends on the frequency. The electromagnetic spectrum can cause DNA damage at the short end (gamma, UV) but not at the long end (light, heat).

So far as I can tell, cell phones use microwaves (which heat water) but broadcast at several powers of ten less than a microwave oven.

A more believable danger is CRT monitors. They increase your yearly radiation absorption but are not nearly as significant as the radiation that comes out of the ground.

your yearly radiation consumption (new window)
 
2008-11-09 04:27:25 PM
This reminds me of Ted Kennedy fighting against a Wind Power farm near his home on Cape Cod.

"But don't you realize -- that's where I sail!" may stand as Kennedy's most self-incriminating quote.

Sure wind power sounds great - unless it is in your backyard ;)

Link (new window)
 
2008-11-09 04:28:47 PM
1. Wear your seatbelt.
2. Don't smoke
 
2008-11-09 04:30:26 PM
Does using a blue tooth headset help reduce the potentially harmful radiation of a cell phone?
 
2008-11-09 04:30:32 PM
InternationalShoe: lajimi: When these people whine about the towers....Ask them if they have a cell phone. If the answer is yes tell them to STFU.

So if someone built a highway through your yard and you use highways to get to work, you don't have the right to complain?


Not if you sold your lot, rented the space, or otherwise allowed them to do so. However, you don't have much of a right to complain if the highway is built near you and you plan to use it due to its convenience. It's a terrible analogy mostly because one is apparent but also because it isn't as though we can realistically choose which towers to benefit from.
 
2008-11-09 04:30:41 PM
Nakito: A cell tower that looks like a cell tower is a lot less ugly than a cell tower that tries to look like a tree.

Just as formica that looks like formica is a lot less ugly than formica that tries to look like wood.

Revel in the technical infrastructure of your time.


The palm tree ones aren't bad, probably because palm trees already look like a stupid pole with some crap on top.
 
2008-11-09 04:30:48 PM
drestin: This reminds me of Ted Kennedy fighting against a Wind Power farm near his home on Cape Cod.

"But don't you realize -- that's where I sail!" may stand as Kennedy's most self-incriminating quote.

Sure wind power sounds great - unless it is in your backyard ;)

Link (new window)


tbn0.google.com
NIMBY
 
2008-11-09 04:33:05 PM
UsikFark: It all depends on the frequency. The electromagnetic spectrum can cause DNA damage at the short end (gamma, UV) but not at the long end (light, heat).

So far as I can tell, cell phones use microwaves (which heat water) but broadcast at several powers of ten less than a microwave oven.


Microwave ovens work at approximately 2.45 gigahertz at around 700 watts output

Cell phones work between 800 and 900 megahertz with 2 watts peak output


A more believable danger is CRT monitors. They increase your yearly radiation absorption but are not nearly as significant as the radiation that comes out of the ground.


Fortunately they are being phased out for LCD monitors.
 
2008-11-09 04:33:10 PM
RedLeg1525: I wonder if in the 60's FM radio had the same type people railing against it.

AM and TV, FM transmitter power is trivial in comparison. Granted the frequencies are more a question than AM and governments react to public tinfoilality by mandating scary signs around high power sites. To date they have no science warranting it as well as no issue tossing broadcasters to the dogs if it means being seen 'doing something about it.'

/true fact; at some locations in an AM transmitter site a florescent tube will light without power.
 
2008-11-09 04:36:26 PM
www.nimbyopera.org.nz

/hotlinked
//dunno why
 
2008-11-09 04:36:28 PM
Dumb bastards. Just learn to embrace your brain cancer and forget about it whilst you yack away incessantly on your $400 iPhone.

/just don't call me, because I don't farking care
 
2008-11-09 04:38:18 PM
Here is the scariest part of the article

Under the Telecommunications Act of 1996, cities and counties are not allowed to consider possible health effects in deciding whether to allow towers.

That's nice. Your corporate servants worked hard to get that one passed.
 
2008-11-09 04:39:12 PM
Right. Because so many cell phones use microwave-range frequencies. Idiots. People really need to understand what non-ionizing radiation is.
 
2008-11-09 04:40:28 PM
robbiedo: Does using a blue tooth headset help reduce the potentially harmful radiation of a cell phone?

Possibly, but it also greatly increases the possibility of people thinking you're a pretentious wanker.
Also, if you do it whilst driving it dramatically increases the chance the Fire Service will have to spend several hours sponging your mushy remains out of their boots having previously scraped you off the motorway.

/ really hate prats who drive and phone.
// Just hope you don't take anyone else with you if you do.
 
2008-11-09 04:41:17 PM
my foil hat is disguised as toupee
 
2008-11-09 04:42:27 PM
Man On Pink Corner: lajimi: If some company wants to build a cell tower on my property I may have a problem with that will cheerfully take their rent money. EIP!

You got THAT right!
 
2008-11-09 04:42:28 PM
SuburbanCowboy: That's nice. Your corporate servants worked hard to get that one passed.

So? They're right. Since health effects from far-field cellphone radiation would require entirely new physics to occur, the burden of proof should fall on the tinfoil-hat crowd.

They shouldn't be allowed to interfere with the cellular providers' ordinary course of business, any more than I should be able to get an injunction against the secret microwave thought-control transmitter you're aiming at my house from your basement.
 
2008-11-09 04:43:56 PM
GaidinBDJ: Right. Because so many cell phones use microwave-range frequencies. Idiots. People really need to understand what non-ionizing radiation is.

Bit of a rotsky there. Microwaves aren't ionizing, either. Until someone conclusively, and repeatably, demonstrates otherwise, biological harm from microwaves is limited to thermal effects.
 
2008-11-09 04:44:01 PM
NIMBY! I bet they are all worried about their health while puffing away on their cigarettes.
 
2008-11-09 04:44:31 PM
My light bulbs are leaking RADIATION!!!!!!
 
2008-11-09 04:44:37 PM
drestin: This reminds me of Ted Kennedy fighting against a Wind Power farm near his home on Cape Cod.

"But don't you realize -- that's where I sail!" may stand as Kennedy's most self-incriminating quote.

Sure wind power sounds great - unless it is in your backyard ;)

Link (new window)


Those things make freaky noises!!!

/like fingernails on a chalkboard
//EEEK!!!
 
2008-11-09 04:44:52 PM
www.privateline.com
 
2008-11-09 04:47:44 PM
The trees, they will kill us, with their radiation...
 
2008-11-09 04:49:37 PM
Wizard Drongo: robbiedo: Does using a blue tooth headset help reduce the potentially harmful radiation of a cell phone?

Possibly, but it also greatly increases the possibility of people thinking you're a pretentious wanker.
Also, if you do it whilst driving it dramatically increases the chance the Fire Service will have to spend several hours sponging your mushy remains out of their boots having previously scraped you off the motorway.

/ really hate prats who drive and phone.
// Just hope you don't take anyone else with you if you do.


I still don't see how it increases your risk more than talking to someone in the car with you. But maybe I just don't drive like an ass.

Best use of bluetooth:
www.theonion.com
syengergizing while on a lunch date!
 
2008-11-09 04:52:12 PM
pedobearapproved I still don't see how it increases your risk more than talking to someone in the car with you.

...on the surface it does not, but I think most people talking to others in the car, for whatever reason, are simply more aware that they're talking in the car and are still driving. Just anecdotal evidence dealing with inattentive drivers with headsets, so...
 
2008-11-09 04:57:23 PM
Vangor: pedobearapproved I still don't see how it increases your risk more than talking to someone in the car with you.

...on the surface it does not, but I think most people talking to others in the car, for whatever reason, are simply more aware that they're talking in the car and are still driving. Just anecdotal evidence dealing with inattentive drivers with headsets, so...


The bluetooth thing may be a correlation because I personally wouldn't answer a phone whilst driving. I'd either pull over and take the call, or turn my phone off and take it later.
So, maybe the danger of driving whilst phoning isn't that much, it's just the sort of prick who does (especially with one of those stupid pretentious headsets) is also a bit of a prick in general and drives badly, gets inpatient and ends up being tarmac spread.

/ Just a thought...
 
2008-11-09 04:57:24 PM
Vangor: pedobearapproved I still don't see how it increases your risk more than talking to someone in the car with you.

...on the surface it does not, but I think most people talking to others in the car, for whatever reason, are simply more aware that they're talking in the car and are still driving. Just anecdotal evidence dealing with inattentive drivers with headsets, so...


People driving and talking on phone are mentally visualizing the person they are talking to - studies show that even hands-free is not safe.
 
2008-11-09 04:58:21 PM
Residents worry surge of cell phone towers disguised as trees may be exposing them to harmful microwave radiation, refuse to stand for it

Don't feel bad Submitter... I see what you did there, even though apparently nobody else did.
 
2008-11-09 04:59:27 PM
My reception on my cell is so bad at home I have to communicate through text messages standing next to a certain window. I have 28 acres but I dont want to erect a tower on my property just to get reception. The money to lease a tower would be nice but Im waiting for a neighbor to do it. They are all 80 year old farmers who believe cell phones are the devils work so my only hope is that they will kick the bucket and their kids/grandkids will do it... lol
 
2008-11-09 05:01:26 PM
drestin: RedLeg1525: I wonder if in the 60's FM radio had the same type people railing against it.

How about people who were paranoid about microwave ovens when they first came out --- but then someone figured out you could make popcorn in one and, well, that fight was over.


You can make popcorn with cell phones. I guess the fight is over! (new window)
 
2008-11-09 05:02:10 PM
Englebert Slaptyback: A cell phone tower diquised as a tree in Conifer, Colorado, along US 285 at Blackfoot Rd. (The Denver Post | Brian Brainerd)


Nice caption, Brian.


I can pretty much guarantee you that Brian Brainerd did not write that caption...

/former journalist

On another, related topic, our community radio station has been fighting with some dumb old lady who objects to us moving to mixed polarisation for about four years now, while slowly but surely going broke because nobody can hear our farking signal. People like this should be moved to their own little island in the middle of nowhere, with no radio/microwave/rf signals anywhere in their vicinity to harm them. Then left there to rot.

That is all.
 
2008-11-09 05:03:17 PM
bunner: this just in,

government agencies often serve the interests of big business over those of the people whose wishes they have sworn to represent.


This also just in, nutjobs, charlatans, and laymen often scapegoat Big Business and the government for imagined problems without properly establishing that the problems actually exist and if so that they are indeed variables controlled by corporations and/or the government.
 
2008-11-09 05:04:00 PM
Also, a passenger talking to you in the car can see if you suddenly need all your concentration and shut up. A person on the other end of a phone line can't.
 
2008-11-09 05:05:53 PM
During lightning storms I frequently think about Ben Franklin.
 
2008-11-09 05:07:54 PM
Back in my reporter days, I did a story about a group of parents in this ritzy school district who didn't want a cell phone tower placed near their kids' school. There was a public meeting with district administrators and AT&T scientists, along with government documents that showed the amount of radiation they'd be exposed to was (as others have said) less than that they'd receive from close proximity to a microwave or to holding an actual cell phone to their ear.

But when one parent asked the AT&T scientists to guarantee her that her daughter wouldn't get cancer, the guy said, "I can't do that. You can't prove a negative." And the whole room erupted with "that's right!" and "I knew it!"

It was really difficult to maintain my reporter face and not burst out laughing at that.
 
2008-11-09 05:09:49 PM
Vortex_Woman: Also, a passenger talking to you in the car can see if you suddenly need all your concentration and shut up. A person on the other end of a phone line can't.

But usually won't in fact might start screaming and yelling when I can just toss the phone and et on with defensive driving. I rarely talk on the phone while driving and will pull over or call back but it's harder to toss my wife on the floor or call her back later when she hollers "LOOKOUTTHEREISACARSTOPPEDINFRONTOFYOUAHHHHRGGGGG" somehow she thinks this will help me react and stay calm.
 
2008-11-09 05:09:59 PM
The amount of radiation coming from a cell tower is miniscule compared to what's coming from the sun and earth itself. If the radiation levels from a tower could give you cancer, none of us would be here.
 
2008-11-09 05:10:28 PM
RedLeg1525: I wonder if in the 60's FM radio had the same type people railing against it.

Are you kidding?? My community FM station has this problem TODAY. Stupid old ladies and their paranoid delusions....
 
2008-11-09 05:11:17 PM
bestuff.com

Approves!
 
2008-11-09 05:11:58 PM
rotatingpies: Back in my reporter days, I did a story about a group of parents in this ritzy school district who didn't want a cell phone tower placed near their kids' school. There was a public meeting with district administrators and AT&T scientists, along with government documents that showed the amount of radiation they'd be exposed to was (as others have said) less than that they'd receive from close proximity to a microwave or to holding an actual cell phone to their ear.

But when one parent asked the AT&T scientists to guarantee her that her daughter wouldn't get cancer, the guy said, "I can't do that. You can't prove a negative." And the whole room erupted with "that's right!" and "I knew it!"

It was really difficult to maintain my reporter face and not burst out laughing at that.


I honestly think that the ability to handle critical thinking and accept scientific uncertainty is a purely genetic trait that only manifests itself once every 5 generations. That is the only conclusion I have been able to make by observing so many smart people who believe in astrology or creationism, and why my entire family is devoid of it.
 
2008-11-09 05:19:43 PM
SemperLieSuckah: This also just in, nutjobs, charlatans, and laymen often scapegoat Big Business and the government for imagined problems without properly establishing that the problems actually exist and if so that they are indeed variables controlled by corporations and/or the government.

On occasion. True, dat. But for every dipwad with an axe to grind, there's about four bureaucrats with greasy palms and plane tickets to Cancun.

Sadly.
 
2008-11-09 05:25:35 PM
I wish there were a cell tower near my house. My coverage is lousy. If I had better cell coverage, I'd dump my landline in a second.
 
2008-11-09 05:32:15 PM
neenerist: AM and TV, FM transmitter power is trivial in comparison. Granted the frequencies are more a question than AM and governments react to public tinfoilality by mandating scary signs around high power sites. To date they have no science warranting it as well as no issue tossing broadcasters to the dogs if it means being seen 'doing something about it.'

Class C FM is 100kW. Class A AM is 50kW. Not a trivial difference.

GaidinBDJ: Right. Because so many cell phones use microwave-range frequencies. Idiots. People really need to understand what non-ionizing radiation is.

Depends on how you define "microwave". If you go with the "above 0.3 Ghz" then all cell phones operate in the microwave band. If you go with above 1 Ghz, then quite a substantial number of cellular devices operate in the microwave range.
 
2008-11-09 05:40:54 PM
what about a malfunctioning cell phone tower ?

I somehow doubt anyone is discussing or making contingencies based on off-design operation.

a malfunctioning magnetron/waveguide really can be quite dangerous. I wonder if a malfunctioning cell tower is actually dangerous. How would you even know if the cell tower you're taking a nap next too is actually malfunctioning ?
 
2008-11-09 05:42:18 PM
miller007

[pic of cellphone tower. On fire.]

Seriously, how did they manage that one?
 
2008-11-09 05:46:14 PM
dbaggins: what about a malfunctioning cell phone tower ?

I somehow doubt anyone is discussing or making contingencies based on off-design operation.

a malfunctioning magnetron/waveguide really can be quite dangerous. I wonder if a malfunctioning cell tower is actually dangerous. How would you even know if the cell tower you're taking a nap next too is actually malfunctioning ?


What kind of malfunction in the transmitting equipment used in cellular installations would suddenly generate in excess of 700W RF at around 2.4 Ghz?

Yeah, I thought so.
 
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