Obdicut: nicksteel: Does your Irish-American club discriminate against other races.


FYI, - Irish-American is not a race.

Well, it's as much of a race as "black" is.

And, um, did I miss some brilliant syllogism you made 'proving' that all black student organizations discriminate against other races, or are you just begging the question?

You're being a bit of a weasel.


Answer these two questions, since you find it difficult to answer one:

Are you against African-American student organizations? Are you against Irish-American student organizations?

How many times do I have to answer a question before it gets through your thick head. I object to is the idea that it is okay to have a club for any racial group that obviously discriminates against other races.

Now, if you cannot read that sentence and understand its meaning, then you are one IQ point away from being a fern. If you cannot read that sentence and get a clear answer for your questions, you need to go away and stop bothering me.

I don't see why, if everyone should have equal rights, a 'whites' student group would be shut down and a 'blacks' one would not. If neither deny access to a specific group of people, there shouldn't be a problem.
Of course they'll imply a form of discrimination - just like any other group. Any group implies a prior knowledge and/or association of that group's subject anyways.

Now, if they outright practice prejudiced/racist teachings then I can see a reason for the group being shut down.

Weaver95: the BSA inside the country aren't assholes either. they're just being punished because they refuse to kowtow to political correctness equal rights.

It's perfectly reasonable for a private organization like the BSA to do such a thing.
But to do so, means they give up use of public/government resources. You can't have it both ways.

If a church started practicing a "people of irish descent have no rights" philosophy, they would have their tax exempt/public use exemptions denied as well.

thamike: CynicalLA: thamike,

nicksteel: How many times do I have to answer a question before it gets through your thick head. I object to is the idea that it is okay to have a club for any racial group that obviously discriminates against other races.

Now, if you cannot read that sentence and understand its meaning, then you are one IQ point away from being a fern. If you cannot read that sentence and get a clear answer for your questions, you need to go away and stop bothering me.

I understand that sentence. I can conclude from that sentence, then, and from your previous one, "A black student union certainly sounds like it is exclusive. Why would you call it a black student union if you wanted anybody to show up except blacks??" that you would be against an Irish-American organization.

I think you're taking being PC and sensitive to a ridiculous level. By being overly concerned that nobody gets excluded, you're making it impossible for people of different cultures to celebrate their own culture with either people from their culture, or people who appreciate and admire that culture.

This is the danger of being as politically correct as you are; by trying to make sure everyone gets included, instead, everyone gets excluded.

I still don't know why you couldn't answer my simple, straightforward questions, forcing me to answer for you. Perhaps it's just an outgrowth of your oversensitive political correctness.

nicksteel said:

In PRINCIPLE, I object to any group that discriminates in any manner.


Your hypothetical objection, to hypothetical activities, which might affect hypothetical persons, at some hypothetical location, is duly noted.

Now, if you should ever encounter any non-hyhothetical instances of one group discriminating against another, I'm sure you'll be able to fill us in on all of the specific details, names, dates, and locations.

This article pissed me off enough that I finally got over my fear of being harassed and started making phonecalls for Barack.

thanks Christian right!
/and thank you Rachel for being my first call and being so nice, even though you're not an Obama supporter!

General Zang: nicksteel said:

In PRINCIPLE, I object to any group that discriminates in any manner.


Your hypothetical objection, to hypothetical activities, which might affect hypothetical persons, at some hypothetical location, is duly noted.

Now, if you should ever encounter any non-hyhothetical instances of one group discriminating against another, I'm sure you'll be able to fill us in on all of the specific details, names, dates, and locations.

What is your problem??? That it took you over an hour to figure out that I am not against a Black Student Union (I said so repeatedly in that hour). That I find it hypocritical to have a group with the name Black Student Union when it is not okay to have one called a White Student Union?

Or are you just really, really stupid?

Obdicut: nicksteel: How many times do I have to answer a question before it gets through your thick head. I object to is the idea that it is okay to have a club for any racial group that obviously discriminates against other races.

Now, if you cannot read that sentence and understand its meaning, then you are one IQ point away from being a fern. If you cannot read that sentence and get a clear answer for your questions, you need to go away and stop bothering me.

I understand that sentence. I can conclude from that sentence, then, and from your previous one, "A black student union certainly sounds like it is exclusive. Why would you call it a black student union if you wanted anybody to show up except blacks??" that you would be against an Irish-American organization.

I think you're taking being PC and sensitive to a ridiculous level. By being overly concerned that nobody gets excluded, you're making it impossible for people of different cultures to celebrate their own culture with either people from their culture, or people who appreciate and admire that culture.

This is the danger of being as politically correct as you are; by trying to make sure everyone gets included, instead, everyone gets excluded.

I still don't know why you couldn't answer my simple, straightforward questions, forcing me to answer for you. Perhaps it's just an outgrowth of your oversensitive political correctness.

I am the last person in this world that should be accused of political correctness. Look at some of my other posts in other groups. PC is the pussification of America.

You could argue that we are all members of the Human Race, but most people, the government included, separate people into different categories. Irish-American is not one of them. Therefor your question is out of place and stupid. Irish is not a race, American is not a race. How can you combine them and come up with a race?? Is there a difference between the Irish "race" and the Irish-American "race"?? What is it? Do we distinguish race upon where a person is born or where they live??

nicksteel: Do we distinguish race upon where a person is born or where they live??

have you ever heard the term african-american?

nicksteel: How many times do I have to answer a question before it gets through your thick head. I object to is the idea that it is okay to have a club for any racial group that obviously discriminates against other races.

So you're for the suppression of free speech and free association? Oh, and free assembly. Okay then.

oldernell
This is good news for the Christian right. With all this destruction going on, it can only mean that Obama is the Antichrist and not the Messiah. That means that this is the beginning of Armigi...Armeged...the end of the world, and the rapture will soon begin. Now they can go to Heaven and get their virgins. Why aren't they happy?

That's what I keep wondering. I'm surprised no one has linked Obama with the number 666 somehow.

Remember way back when Henry Kissinger was "recognized" as the anti-christ by doing some magic with his name and getting 666?

cameroncrazy1984: nicksteel: How many times do I have to answer a question before it gets through your thick head. I object to is the idea that it is okay to have a club for any racial group that obviously discriminates against other races.

So you're for the suppression of free speech and free association? Oh, and free assembly. Okay then.

Congrats!! You just might be the biggest idiot here. There is not way a rational person could reach the conclusion that you did.

How does eliminating segregation suppress free speech or free association?

Dear religious nut-jobs.



You had your chance, and



you're not putting enough phenobarbital and vodka in yolur oatmeal.

Y'freaks.

FootInMouthDisease: nicksteel: Do we distinguish race upon where a person is born or where they live??

have you ever heard the term african-american?

Yes, I have. It means an American of African descent. But African-American is NOT a race. Look Einstein, take my argument against Irish-American being a race and substitute African for Irish. It is the same thing.

nicksteel said:


What is your problem???

Mainly, that I have enough life experience or judgement to see that there is a fundamental difference between something like a Hispanic Club, a French Club, a German Club, an African-American Club, a Chinese club, an Italian Club, a Danish Club, a Japanese Club....

....and the glaringly different "White" Club.

nicksteel said:

That it took you over an hour to figure out that I am not against a Black Student Union (I said so repeatedly in that hour). That I find it hypocritical to have a group with the name Black Student Union when it is not okay to have one called a White Student Union?

You see it as hypocrital... that is true.

You are wrong.

It is not hypocritical, and myself as a dozen others have attempted, as naseum, to explain why it is not hypocritical.


nicksteel said: Or are you just really, really stupid?

Maybe I am really really stupid... because I'm going to make one more try at explaining simple, basic common sense reality to you, before giving up on you.

So, here are the facts:

If someone belonged to a French club, you'd discuss French culture and the French language.

If someone belonged to an Italian Club, or an Irish club, or a German Club, or a Russian club, or an Icelandic Club, or a Spanish club...

...then they could talk about thousands of years of history, and language, and culture concerning that area/region/nationality that the club was associated with.

However, this would simply not be even POSSIBLE with a "White" Club.

There is no "White" language, there is no "White" culture that is distinct from numerous and various European cultures, and there is no "White" history that is distinct from the histories of various European nations and ethnicities.

With... of course... one exception:

The only times in European history, when Europeans have described themselves as something other than Germans, or Englishmen, or French, or Italians, or Spaniards, or whatever other European group that they were part of...

...and instead called themselves "Whites", was when they were purposely contrasting themselves against subordinate non-Europeans, for the purposes of conquest, supression, domination, exploitation, and for the establishment of hierarchical structures with "Whites" at the top, and non-Whites below.

In fact, you will never find anyone, anywhere, talking about "Whites" or "The White Race", or "White Culture" unless they are either explicitly supporting a program of rascism, or reacting defensively to a program of rascism supported by self-described "Whites".

If someone tells you that he is proud to be Swedish, or Polish, or Mexican, or Polish, or Japanese, or South African, or French, or Italian, or American... then that person is merely expressing pride in his language, culture, and shared cultural history.

If someone tells you that they are proud to be a "White", then they definately aren't refering to any of the thousands of years of European culture when nobody called themselves "white" ever, but are deliberately refering SPECIFICALLY, to pride in the era of colonial subjugation, when a specific term became neccesary that lumped the dozens of European cultures together in one basket, simply to contrast that group against the groups that they were enslaving.

Usually, the same sort of rascist farks who'll put a Confederate Flag on the back of their pick-up truck, and say that they aren't supporting succession over the issue of owning human beings, but ...um... it's a celebration of "White Culture".

Meaning, of course, a celebration of the plantation era in the Southern United States.

If you can't see how that is different from the folks belonging to the African diaspora calling themselves "Black", then you're just not paying attention, or just not mature enough, to see the difference.

nicksteel: Account created: 2008-09-04 18:17:19

oh i see wats going on here

Another thread showing the Tolerant Left at their finest.

General Zang: nicksteel said:


What is your problem???

Mainly, that I have enough life experience or judgement to see that there is a fundamental difference between something like a Hispanic Club, a French Club, a German Club, an African-American Club, a Chinese club, an Italian Club, a Danish Club, a Japanese Club....

....and the glaringly different "White" Club.

First of all, if one wants to classify different races within the human race, then what you have in your Italian Club is an ethnic group and a white club would be a racial group. You are comparing apples and oranges. You may see that there is a difference, you just don't know what it is.

nicksteel said:

That it took you over an hour to figure out that I am not against a Black Student Union (I said so repeatedly in that hour). That I find it hypocritical to have a group with the name Black Student Union when it is not okay to have one called a White Student Union?

You see it as hypocrital... that is true.

You are wrong.

It is not hypocritical, and myself as a dozen others have attempted, as naseum, to explain why it is not hypocritical.

You logic was flawed. It still is.

nicksteel said: Or are you just really, really stupid?

Maybe I am really really stupid... because I'm going to make one more try at explaining simple, basic common sense reality to you, before giving up on you.

So, here are the facts:

If someone belonged to a French club, you'd discuss French culture and the French language.

If someone belonged to an Italian Club, or an Irish club, or a German Club, or a Russian club, or an Icelandic Club, or a Spanish club...

...then they could talk about thousands of years of history, and language, and culture concerning that area/region/nationality that the club was associated with.

However, this would simply not be even POSSIBLE with a "White" Club.

There is no "White" language, there is no "White" culture that is distinct from numerous and various European cultures, and there is no "White" history that is distinct from the histories of various European nations and ethnicities.

With... of course... one exception:

The only times in European history, when Europeans have described themselves as something other than Germans, or Englishmen, or French, or Italians, or Spaniards, or whatever other European group that they were part of...

...and instead called themselves "Whites", was when they were purposely contrasting themselves against subordinate non-Europeans, for the purposes of conquest, supression, domination, exploitation, and for the establishment of hierarchical structures with "Whites" at the top, and non-Whites below.

In fact, you will never find anyone, anywhere, talking about "Whites" or "The White Race", or "White Culture" unless they are either explicitly supporting a program of rascism, or reacting defensively to a program of rascism supported by self-described "Whites".

If someone tells you that he is proud to be Swedish, or Polish, or Mexican, or Polish, or Japanese, or South African, or French, or Italian, or American... then that person is merely expressing pride in his language, culture, and shared cultural history.

If someone tells you that they are proud to be a "White", then they definately aren't refering to any of the thousands of years of European culture when nobody called themselves "white" ever, but are deliberately refering SPECIFICALLY, to pride in the era of colonial subjugation, when a specific term became neccesary that lumped the dozens of European cultures together in one basket, simply to contrast that group against the groups that they were enslaving.

Usually, the same sort of rascist farks who'll put a Confederate Flag on the back of their pick-up truck, and say that they aren't supporting succession over the issue of owning human beings, but ...um... it's a celebration of "White Culture".

Meaning, of course, a celebration of the plantation era in the Southern United States.

If you can't see how that is different from the folks belonging to the African diaspora calling themselves "Black", then you're just not paying attention, or just not mature enough, to see the difference.

Your grandiose explanation is just another misunderstanding between ethnic versus race.

General Zang: nicksteel said:


What is your problem???

Mainly, that I have enough life experience or judgement to see that there is a fundamental difference between something like a Hispanic Club, a French Club, a German Club, an African-American Club, a Chinese club, an Italian Club, a Danish Club, a Japanese Club....

....and the glaringly different "White" Club.

nicksteel said:

That it took you over an hour to figure out that I am not against a Black Student Union (I said so repeatedly in that hour). That I find it hypocritical to have a group with the name Black Student Union when it is not okay to have one called a White Student Union?

You see it as hypocrital... that is true.

You are wrong.

It is not hypocritical, and myself as a dozen others have attempted, as naseum, to explain why it is not hypocritical.


nicksteel said: Or are you just really, really stupid?

Maybe I am really really stupid... because I'm going to make one more try at explaining simple, basic common sense reality to you, before giving up on you.

So, here are the facts:

If someone belonged to a French club, you'd discuss French culture and the French language.

If someone belonged to an Italian Club, or an Irish club, or a German Club, or a Russian club, or an Icelandic Club, or a Spanish club...

...then they could talk about thousands of years of history, and language, and culture concerning that area/region/nationality that the club was associated with.

However, this would simply not be even POSSIBLE with a "White" Club.

There is no "White" language, there is no "White" culture that is distinct from numerous and various European cultures, and there is no "White" history that is distinct from the histories of various European nations and ethnicities.

With... of course... one exception:

The only times in European history, when Europeans have described themselves as something other than Germans, or Englishmen, or French, or Italians, or Spaniards, or whatever other European group that they were part of...

...and instead called themselves "Whites", was when they were purposely contrasting themselves against subordinate non-Europeans, for the purposes of conquest, supression, domination, exploitation, and for the establishment of hierarchical structures with "Whites" at the top, and non-Whites below.

In fact, you will never find anyone, anywhere, talking about "Whites" or "The White Race", or "White Culture" unless they are either explicitly supporting a program of rascism, or reacting defensively to a program of rascism supported by self-described "Whites".

If someone tells you that he is proud to be Swedish, or Polish, or Mexican, or Polish, or Japanese, or South African, or French, or Italian, or American... then that person is merely expressing pride in his language, culture, and shared cultural history.

If someone tells you that they are proud to be a "White", then they definately aren't refering to any of the thousands of years of European culture when nobody called themselves "white" ever, but are deliberately refering SPECIFICALLY, to pride in the era of colonial subjugation, when a specific term became neccesary that lumped the dozens of European cultures together in one basket, simply to contrast that group against the groups that they were enslaving.

Usually, the same sort of rascist farks who'll put a Confederate Flag on the back of their pick-up truck, and say that they aren't supporting succession over the issue of owning human beings, but ...um... it's a celebration of "White Culture".

Meaning, of course, a celebration of the plantation era in the Southern United States.

If you can't see how that is different from the folks belonging to the African diaspora calling themselves "Black", then you're just not paying attention, or just not mature enough, to see the difference.

Would you accept Caucasian Club???

nicksteel said:

Would you accept Caucasian Club???

Pffft.

Ok, fine... now I know you were just trolling for the lulz.

I think I'll go do work on that paper that's due next week.

General Zang:
....and the glaringly different "White" Club.


Don't talk about White Club!!

nicksteel:

Would you accept Caucasian Club???

Only if it's Ossetian, Georgian, Armenian, Azeri, Abkhazian, Ubykh...

General Zang: nicksteel said:

Would you accept Caucasian Club???

Pffft.

Ok, fine... now I know you were just trolling for the lulz.

I think I'll go do work on that paper that's due next week.

I am not trolling. You use Irish-American in comparison to Black. Black is traditionally accepted as a race (African to be exact), Irish-American is an ethnic group. Caucasian is a racial group.

I substituted Caucasian to be more in line with Black (or African).

Decados: Mahatma Gandhi is one of the most respected leaders of modern history. A Hindu, Ghandi nevertheless admired Jesus and often quoted from the Sermon on the Mount. Once when the missionary E. Stanley Jones met with Ghandi he asked him, "Mr. Ghandi, though you quote the words of Christ often, why is that you appear to so adamantly reject becoming his follower?"

Ghandi replied, "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Apparently Ghandi's rejection of Christianity grew out of an incident that happened when he was a young man practising law in South Africa. He had become attracted to the Christian faith, had studied the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, and was seriously exploring becoming a Christian. And so he decided to attend a church service. As he came up the steps of the large church where he intended to go, a white South African elder of the church barred his way at the door. "Where do you think you're going, kaffir?" the man asked Ghandi in a belligerent tone of voice.

Ghandi replied, "I'd like to attend worship here."

The church elder snarled at him, "There's no room for kaffirs in this church. Get out of here or I'll have my assistants throw you down the steps."

From that moment, Ghandi said, he decided to adopt what good he found in Christianity, but would never again consider becoming a Christian if it meant being part of the church.

You don't have to be part of a church to be a Christian. I thought that Ghandi was smarter than that. Are you sure you got that right?

So the Ninth Commandment doesn't apply to Muslims?

/sarcasm off

D_Moran: So the Ninth Commandment doesn't apply to Muslims?

/sarcasm off

In what way??

nicksteel: Obdicut: nicksteel: . What I object to is the idea that it is okay to have a

Well, can you answer the very simple, straightforward question, then?

Are you against having Irish-American student organizations?

Does your Irish-American club discriminate against other races.


FYI, - Irish-American is not a race.

IF true, niether is African-American.

Thune: nicksteel: Obdicut: nicksteel: . What I object to is the idea that it is okay to have a

Well, can you answer the very simple, straightforward question, then?

Are you against having Irish-American student organizations?

Does your Irish-American club discriminate against other races.


FYI, - Irish-American is not a race.

IF true, niether is African-American.

It isn't.

nicksteel: thamike: nicksteel:


Prove me wrong.

GO TO SCHOOL.

weak. And it is not proof. It is common knowledge that the slave traders bought their slaves from African tribes. The people that they purchased were captured from other tribes.

Usually prisoners of war or victims of raids. Not only did warring tribes get payment, they achieved numerical superiority. Double winning situation for them.

Egalitarian: Bad stuff happens all the time, all around the world. I'm sure they'll take the first earthquake of 2009 and brandish it as proof of Obama's anti-christiness.

Additionally, the economic crisis we are currently in will self-correct regardless of who is in office.

However, i'm sure Obama will take credit for it.

And thanks to these people the GOP is likely to collapse. At least what comes of it, will see them put to pasture and have to make it on their own.

WhyteRaven74: And thanks to these people the GOP is likely to collapse. At least what comes of it, will see them put to pasture and have to make it on their own.

The leaders of the GOP started pandering to these people. If the GOP collapses blame them, not the fundies.

nicksteel: If the GOP collapses blame them, not the fundies.

While the GOP leadership did do the pandering, the fundies still do get the blame too.

thamike: blogtown.portlandmercury.com

I'm at a loss to come up with one actual political conservative in the GOP running for office.

thamike: Thune: However, i'm sure Obama will take credit for it.

Why wouldn't he? He'll be getting the blame for it for his first two years in office, at least. Might as well. (as did Clinton)

Hah, no he won't.

The Liberal Media will be blaming Bush for everything it can all to 2012 and beyond.

The GOP cannot collapse.

It's only a matter of time before liberalism blows up in the democrats face and the GOP will race back into the whitehouse.