I think it was one of these...

I never took a gun safety class but would figure that not pointing the things at your chest would be covered at some point.


Oh well. Next time.

Rule 1) never point the muzzle at anything you don't plan to kill/destroy

rule 2) the gun is always loaded.

rule 3) if at any time you find yourself with an unloaded gun please refer back to rule number 2.

follow these and you won't have any accidents.

TFA: Hurst's body was sent to Jacksonville for an autopsy, but no foul play was suspected.

So they're saying the birds aren't getting revenge?

subby is a retard
darwined = no kids

He had two kids, Sub-badly-wants-to-use-cliche-mitter.

Shame he had to Dick Cheney himself.

/johnny g hurst
//almost got the irony tag

Oldiron_79: Rule 1) never point the muzzle at anything you don't plan to kill/destroy

rule 2) the gun is always loaded.

rule 3) if at any time you find yourself with an unloaded gun please refer back to rule number 2.

follow these and you won't have any accidents.

This.

Not Darwinated if his two sons were standing there watching him get autopwned.

At 73 I won't outright say he didn't know about how to practice gun safety, I think I'll just assume he didn't cling to life as much as he used to.

T.M.S.: I never took a gun safety class but would figure that not pointing the things at your chest would be covered at some point.


Oh well. Next time.

Not to mention that having a "loaded" weapon in your vehicle during hunting season is normally illegal in most states.

I'm guessing that at his age, he was just ready to go.

Der Poopflinger: subby is a retard
darwined = no kids

good point. his genes did carry on, spreading the stupidness to further generations of stupids.

goethe_helen_hunt
Not Darwinated if his two sons were standing there watching him get autopwned.

Theaetetus
He had two kids, Sub-badly-wants-to-use-cliche-mitter.

Der Poopflinger
subby is a retard
darwined = no kids

i guess none of you understand Darwin. These types of changes takes hundreds of thousands of years to take effect. Sure, this guy had kids, and his kids might someday even have kids... but eventually, it becomes more likely that this particular gene pool will lose out to a better gene pool.

"no foul play was suspected" ... does everything have to be criminal? It was an accident.

Still far fewer than douchebags in cars.

He lived a oouple months beyond average, right?

Everyone does something stupid at least once in their life - albeit not necessarily with a gun.

Cumulative stupidity counts, too.

Muzzle loader? Must have had the hammer pulled back? Didn't know muzzle loaders were double action.

CasperImproved: Not to mention that having a "loaded" weapon in your vehicle during hunting season is normally illegal in most states.

Not in the great state of South Dakota.
loaded guns are the norm, especially when you get West river.
It's all gun racks and 12 packs baby!

?

Firearm Safety 101:

T.rex: i guess none of you understand Darwin. These types of changes takes hundreds of thousands of years to take effect. Sure, this guy had kids, and his kids might someday even have kids... but eventually, it becomes more likely that this particular gene pool will lose out to a better gene pool.

Yes, but the Darwin award means that you remove yourself immediately from the gene pool. No one on this board seriously believes that someone accidentally shooting themselves means that future generations will have similar "accidents". See Idiocracy (it is a documentary).

Feltonl: CasperImproved: Not to mention that having a "loaded" weapon in your vehicle during hunting season is normally illegal in most states.

Not in the great state of South Dakota.
loaded guns are the norm, especially when you get West river.
It's all gun racks and 12 packs baby!

One of the things that pissed me off the most in Colorado when deer hunting was the sound of a 4x4 (or truck) in a state or federal area that they were not allowed in, and then rifle shots when when they shot the deer from their vehicles.

I would have loved to observe some of those situations rather then just hear them, and had a camera to take pictures of them.

Nothing like walking several miles into the wild (mountains/valleys included), to make your commune with nature a major plus. There is also nothing more negative to that same situation then a pair of rednecks in their 4x4 spoil that.

You have no idea how much you will appreciate that deer steak when you had to physically haul it several miles from where you hunted it.

-1 to subby for misuse of Darwin cliché.
-1 to subby for failing to use "Florida" tag when obviously appropriate.

The thing I find strange about this is that it was a muzzleloader. That would be very hard to unload, so why would you load it before you were ready to use it? And don't most muzzleloaders use shotgun primers? why would you prime it too? Unless it was a flint or wheel lock storing the gun in that condition makes no sense to me.

/And of course, always point any weapon in a safe direction and treat it like it is loaded even if you "know" it is not.

I have heard this was a way the old wagon train settlers used to accidentally kill themselves, grab the barrel and pull it toward you, the hammer catches on something just enough to release and set off your charge and boom, you are dead.

Oldiron_79: Rule 1) never point the muzzle at anything you don't plan to kill/destroy

rule 2) the gun is always loaded.

rule 3) if at any time you find yourself with an unloaded gun please refer back to rule number 2.

follow these and you won't have any accidents.



Rule 3 - Know your target, know what's behind your target

Rule 4 - Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on your target

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: The thing I find strange about this is that it was a muzzleloader. That would be very hard to unload, so why would you load it before you were ready to use it? And don't most muzzleloaders use shotgun primers? why would you prime it too? Unless it was a flint or wheel lock storing the gun in that condition makes no sense to me.

/And of course, always point any weapon in a safe direction and treat it like it is loaded even if you "know" it is not.

Actually not. Most modern muzzle loaders use a "cap" type device that the hammer mechanism impacts on. But you are correct in assuming all this should be setup/ready for the shot "after" you get out of the car/truck. Back to what I originally said, in most states, what this old dude did was illegal. He was prepared to illegally take game from his vehicle.

anyone have any data on whether this happens more than people use firearms in justifiable homicide?

/not trolling, srslsy
//schmidt rubin k31 ftw

grabbed the muzzle???

what the hell was he thinking

since this is turning into a gun enthusiast thread, i'd like to pose this quesiton to the lot of ye

i'm getting a swiss schmidt rubin k-31 next paycheck.

my dad is concerned that because its old the barrel will be crystalized/weakened, and i will need to special load the
ammunition with a weaker charch to keep from having the breach blow up in your face. "Old weapons crystallize and cannot take high power cartridges."

my question for you guys: would a 70yr old barely fired well maintained swiss military rifle fall under this category? what would you guys think?

Father_Jack: anyone have any data on whether this happens more than people use firearms in justifiable homicide?

/not trolling, srslsy
//schmidt rubin k31 ftw

2004 Data (Justifiable Homicide)

Cops: 437; Private Citizens: 229

Fatal firearms accidents per year...1,100

But that isn't necessarily someone shooting themselves.

You also have to consider that crime rates have increased in areas that require locking up of guns (though not a causal relationship necessarily).

CasperImproved: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: The thing I find strange about this is that it was a muzzleloader. That would be very hard to unload, so why would you load it before you were ready to use it? And don't most muzzleloaders use shotgun primers? why would you prime it too? Unless it was a flint or wheel lock storing the gun in that condition makes no sense to me.

/And of course, always point any weapon in a safe direction and treat it like it is loaded even if you "know" it is not.

Actually not. Most modern muzzle loaders use a "cap" type device that the hammer mechanism impacts on. But you are correct in assuming all this should be setup/ready for the shot "after" you get out of the car/truck. Back to what I originally said, in most states, what this old dude did was illegal. He was prepared to illegally take game from his vehicle.

In Florida the law is that you can carry a gun in your vehicle as long as it is "securely encased" or you have a concealed permit. On the floor in the backseat is not cool, but in a case it is ok, even loaded. Sounds like this guy just had it on the floor.

I know my uncle hunts with a muzzleloader and he told me it used shotgun primers. It is a modern muzzleloader. Are these caps similar to a primer, or is it something built into the gun that sparks? The point I was making is that with a gun like a flintlock, there was just loaded and unloaded. With a gun that uses primers, there is unloaded, loaded, and loaded and primed. It makes no sense whatsoever for it to have been loaded and primed.

Killed by your own muzzleloader. That takes talent.

This was a muzzle loader. Which means all he had to do was remove the cap and the gun would not fire. You can have the powder and the ball in the barrel and no cap and the gun is classified as not loaded by every state in the country. The guy just violated the law and paid the price.

Bottom line all guns are loaded until you check to make sure they are not loaded.

Oldiron_79: Rule 1) never point the muzzle at anything you don't plan to kill/destroy

rule 2) the gun is always loaded.

rule 3) if at any time you find yourself with an unloaded gun please refer back to rule number 2.

follow these and you won't have any accidents.

I went on a camping trip back in the day when i was a scout. We got the chance to shoot 12 gauge and 20 gauge shotguns at someone's camp. We were shooting the clay things and having a blast. We were all taught the dangers of guns. I have always respected any type of gun while it was in my hands. Mainly because i was scared shiatless that i'd accidently shoot someone. That kind of mind set will make you super careful. Well, one kid didnt have that kind of mind set.

He was holding the gun and turned to talk someone, swinging the gun around with him. He basically pointed the gun almost point blank at someone's face as he turned.

We were like woah woah.. what are you doing. His response.

"Dont worry, It's on safety."

Needless to say we took the gun away from him and he wasnt allowed to shoot anymore.

Father_Jack: since this is turning into a gun enthusiast thread, i'd like to pose this quesiton to the lot of ye

i'm getting a swiss schmidt rubin k-31 next paycheck.

my dad is concerned that because its old the barrel will be crystalized/weakened, and i will need to special load the
ammunition with a weaker charch to keep from having the breach blow up in your face. "Old weapons crystallize and cannot take high power cartridges."

my question for you guys: would a 70yr old barely fired well maintained swiss military rifle fall under this category? what would you guys think?

Most of the K31's I've read about have pristine barrels. Does your's not?

If in doubt have a qualified gunsmith check it out.

Seems a few of you know something about firearm safety. Never, ever pull a gun by the barrel towards yourself even if it isn't pointing at you. The muzzle blast is uncomfortable also, not to mention the part of your hand on the barrel.

A loaded and primed muzzle loader . . . . hmmmmmm??????

All guns are loaded, all the time, whether they are or not and should be treated so. I know, a weird statement but believing it it will keep you mostly intact, and those around you.

I don't know about other states, but here in Ohio, a muzzleloader isn't considered "loaded" unless the percussion cap / primer is installed.
Obviously this old fart was all sorts of farked up and stupid as he already had the cap on the nipple during transport.
GAWD!

craxyd: I don't know about other states, but here in Ohio, a muzzleloader isn't considered "loaded" unless the percussion cap / primer is installed.
Obviously this old fart was all sorts of farked up and stupid as he already had the cap on the nipple during transport.
GAWD!

This.

Father_Jack: since this is turning into a gun enthusiast thread, i'd like to pose this quesiton to the lot of ye

i'm getting a swiss schmidt rubin k-31 next paycheck.

my dad is concerned that because its old the barrel will be crystalized/weakened, and i will need to special load the
ammunition with a weaker charch to keep from having the breach blow up in your face. "Old weapons crystallize and cannot take high power cartridges."

my question for you guys: would a 70yr old barely fired well maintained swiss military rifle fall under this category? what would you guys think?

I think it would be fine. The main types of guns that have problems like that are either guns that were originally designed to fire black powder cartriges, or last ditch war rifles like the Arisaka. Swiss quality is excellent, and if the gun has been cared for then it should probably be fine. Also, since it is in a rather obscure caliber there are probably not new heavy loads being developed for it because most of the people shooting it are shooting the same kind of 70 year old guns. Most of the commercial loads would be to the same specs as they were 70 years ago. Be careful if you are handloading, but with factory ammo you should be OK.

Father_Jack,

I had my 1898 KAR 98 tested by a gunsmith and it checked out. For something cheaper, surround your rifle with sandbags, and fire with a lanyard. That way your face doesn't get shredded if it blows.

Father_Jack: since this is turning into a gun enthusiast thread, i'd like to pose this quesiton to the lot of ye

i'm getting a swiss schmidt rubin k-31 next paycheck.

my dad is concerned that because its old the barrel will be crystalized/weakened, and i will need to special load the
ammunition with a weaker charch to keep from having the breach blow up in your face. "Old weapons crystallize and cannot take high power cartridges."

my question for you guys: would a 70yr old barely fired well maintained swiss military rifle fall under this category? what would you guys think?

A mistreated barrel may be weakened in a variety of ways, but there is no truth to the idea that a rifle barrel will crystallize with age.
A well maintained and undamaged rifle that has barely been fired (though old) should be as safe with ammunition it was designed for as when new.
Pay particular attention to the "with ammunition it was designed for" part. Note that old ammunition may not be safe or reliable, depending on age, type, and storage conditions. New ammo that matches the specs of the original would be best.

craxyd: I don't know about other states, but here in Ohio, a muzzleloader isn't considered "loaded" unless the percussion cap / primer is installed.
Obviously this old fart was all sorts of farked up and stupid as he already had the cap on the nipple during transport.
GAWD!

i loled

thanks to JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: CasperImproved: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: The thing I find strange about this is that it was a muzzleloader. That would be very hard to unload, so why would you load it before you were ready to use it? And don't most muzzleloaders use shotgun primers? why would you prime it too? Unless it was a flint or wheel lock storing the gun in that condition makes no sense to me.

/And of course, always point any weapon in a safe direction and treat it like it is loaded even if you "know" it is not.

Actually not. Most modern muzzle loaders use a "cap" type device that the hammer mechanism impacts on. But you are correct in assuming all this should be setup/ready for the shot "after" you get out of the car/truck. Back to what I originally said, in most states, what this old dude did was illegal. He was prepared to illegally take game from his vehicle.

In Florida the law is that you can carry a gun in your vehicle as long as it is "securely encased" or you have a concealed permit. On the floor in the backseat is not cool, but in a case it is ok, even loaded. Sounds like this guy just had it on the floor.

I know my uncle hunts with a muzzleloader and he told me it used shotgun primers. It is a modern muzzleloader. Are these caps similar to a primer, or is it something built into the gun that sparks? The point I was making is that with a gun like a flintlock, there was just loaded and unloaded. With a gun that uses primers, there is unloaded, loaded, and loaded and primed. It makes no sense whatsoever for it to have been loaded and primed.

Jimmy (I'm not typing the whole thing out) -

Most states have laws that prohibit having loaded weapons (hunting use) during hunting seasons, in your vehicle. That's because it's illegal to shoot animals in most states from your car/truck.

Because I live in lower Michigan, I have to use a shotgun if hunting rabbit, squirrel, etc., and if my shotgun was loaded if stopped by a game warden, or police officer, I would be ticketed. It's only okay to load your weapon when you are ready to hunt. With a muzzle loader, I have no clue why someone would think it a smart thing to load the round prior to getting to the hunt spot. To have the cap (or as you see it primer) already on the weapon is past the stupid point. In fact I would think of them as Darwin award achievers.

Please look up muzzle loaders on the Inet (google) for more info on the actual weapon).

Father_Jack Quote 2008-10-21 08:07:58 PM

since this is turning into a gun enthusiast thread, i'd like to pose this quesiton to the lot of ye

i'm getting a swiss schmidt rubin k-31 next paycheck.

my dad is concerned that because its old the barrel will be crystalized/weakened, and i will need to special load the
ammunition with a weaker charch to keep from having the breach blow up in your face. "Old weapons crystallize and cannot take high power cartridges."


Sorry, I know a thing or two about metallurgy and I have never heard of the term "crystallize" except from farmers who overloaded something and didn't want to admit it. There were some strange chemistries 70~80 years ago but crystallization is right up there with exfoliation as an explanation for fatigue or simple overload.

There were a few alloys that had some problems but they would have manifest almost immediately. If you don't have corrosion issues (intergranular can be nasty) the barrel should be just fine. If you have intergranular corrosion, I doubt a gunsmith would know for sure, be careful. But there is no "Crystallization" phenomena, it is a farmer's tale.

BUT, I know nothing about gun metals . . . just structural metals for things like aircraft and bridges. There could be a weird metal that someone used for gun barrels at one time that makes me look the fool.