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(Some Guy)		Mexican cartels: Gimme the money or your wilderness gets it. National Park Service: lolwut (my.earthlink.net)		149
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justanotherfarkinfarker		2008-10-17 01:19:55 PM

I disagree. A lot of Mexicans will work cheap. But it still ain't free. Legalizing will bring costs way down and the profit just won't be there anymore. The shiat is easy to grow and one plant would last me all year.

I don't know, look at booze. I could setup a still and make my own dirt cheap. Heck I can get local feed corn by the ton for next to nothing. But why bother. It is illegal and I can go buy a gallon of cheap legal booze for a few bucks. You have the high end markets for weed, with all the fancy grades. I think it would all work out.

/not a smoker, just saying

EdNortonsTwin		2008-10-17 01:19:55 PM

But they're just here to work...

Fark this...

They sell deer and antelope tags in Calif - time to add sumn else to that list.

SanDamiano		2008-10-17 01:20:50 PM

I read the article, and I just wanted to say:

RON PUGH!!!!

divedeep		2008-10-17 01:21:27 PM

REPEAT story from a week or so ago.

Steed Lankershim		2008-10-17 01:22:12 PM

JohnBigBootay: Senor Awesome: I get the legalize it argument and can see why people would be inclined to think so given this article. But I don't think it's really an option at this stage. If you legalize it and set a market rate for it, wouldn't Mexican cartels just still undercut the price by finding ways around operating costs (for instance growing it in a Nat'l Forest, rather than in a nursery)? People who really want to toke up cheaply (like, oh... say... college students) will go to the lowest bidder which would be the Mexican cartels.

Since they already have an infrastructure set up for growing, selling and even one for smuggling contraband into this country, there's no reason to think that they'd close up shop just because of competition. They'd be taking market share while all the newly, legit, producers would be trying to get their operations on-line. Once someone has got market share, it's hard to take it away.

"Legalize it" was probably the smart idea in the beginning, but I think we've driven it too far into the black market to recover it now.

I disagree. A lot of Mexicans will work cheap. But it still ain't free. Legalizing will bring costs way down and the profit just won't be there anymore. The shiat is easy to grow and one plant would last me all year.

Legalize possession of 10oz or less and 10 plants or less, but keep sales without a license illegal. A huge amount of people would start growing their own personal stash and the others would buy at shops and pay a tax. The gangs would be crippled, crime would drop significantly and jails would begin to empty to make room for violent felons. That is all.

wolvernova		2008-10-17 01:22:40 PM

EdNortonsTwin: But they're just here to work...

Yeah, and notice there are already objections in this thread to the word "Mexican", as if it's now taboo to note where crime or drugs is coming from so long as it involves our porous southern border. The people whining about that crap are also so stupid that they think Lou Dobbs hates Mexicans.

Nick Nostril		2008-10-17 01:23:30 PM

markie_farkie: Legalize it, regulate it, tax it.

Use tax revenues initially to clean up illegal grow sites.

Problem solved.

Agreed.

/not a user

PunGent		2008-10-17 01:23:38 PM

"You can't make things illegal that large percentages of the population want to do unless you want a police state, it's that simple."

Actually, it's even simpler...even police states have drug problems.

They just don't tend to have free presses, so you don't hear about it as often.

Rapmaster2000		2008-10-17 01:23:43 PM

Buy local hydro you cheap bastards.

rehtorb		2008-10-17 01:25:01 PM

"People light up a joint, and they have no idea the amount of environmental damage associated with it," this sounds like the beginning of a hippie implosion...

yyeaahhh mmaann, i got some stuff you should read about the corporations acting all corporationiee and then the man is just trying to take you down at every corner.

I have no problem with legalizing it, regulating it.. but damn it i cant stand those crunchy farkers

Senor Awesome		2008-10-17 01:25:14 PM

asmodeusazarak: Senor Awesome:
"Legalize it" was probably the smart idea in the beginning, but I think we've driven it too far into the black market to recover it now.

How are you going to undercut free? College student + pot of dirt + seeds = happy college student no harm no foul.

And honestly most people will pay a little more to get something without risk of incarceration. People only become likely to break the law when you legislate against something a significant portion of the population wants.

You couldn't undercut free but that's not the issue. I don't think hobbyists will destroy the market any more than people with backyard veggie gardens destroy the supermarket's produce section now. People will buy for the convenience of not having to grow it themselves.

I agree that legislating against wants, especially something like weed is ridiculuous (lest I'm being misunderstood). My point is, I'm not sure that legalizing it will solve everything. It seems like we've managed to legislate against it so long that weed is now solidly in the black market.

Damn You Farking Rich People		2008-10-17 01:26:14 PM

You in here... for some Marijuana??!

Boo this man!

Senor Awesome		2008-10-17 01:26:38 PM

Sticky Hands: Senor Awesome: "Legalize it" was probably the smart idea in the beginning, but I think we've driven it too far into the black market to recover it now.

A large cooperation with a big flat field and some specifically designed machinery will grow and sell that stuff for much cheaper than people in the woods ever could.

Could they? Wouldn't they have to pay for land, labor, etc.? It seems like a bunch of gangs using large amounts of trucked in labor, cheap chemicals and free land would sell for cheaper.

Crown_of_Shoes		2008-10-17 01:26:43 PM

Sticky Hands: lets not pretend that we are going to have hordes of hobby growers.
we will end up with a situation more like Tabacco.

You can't grow tobacco in your backyard, one. Two, it's way more casual. Three, tons of people simply won't like it.

Gunny Walker		2008-10-17 01:27:01 PM

Senor Awesome: I get the legalize it argument and can see why people would be inclined to think so given this article. But I don't think it's really an option at this stage. If you legalize it and set a market rate for it, wouldn't Mexican cartels just still undercut the price by finding ways around operating costs (for instance growing it in a Nat'l Forest, rather than in a nursery)?

I can't iamgine a Nat'l Forest is the cheaper way to go. No roads means no access to ship it out or in. You don't find other people growing other crops in national forests because it's cheaper. They grow it there for purposes of plausible deniablity.

The article covers that. There used to be farms in other countries, but due to tightening borders, the criminals have had to resort to to other means.

What you'd wind up getting are big mega-corps growing it in nice easily accesible fields. Much like tobacco is today. However we'll never get to that point. Any politician soft on drugs is politically suicidal. Somebody decided for what ever reason that we should hate weed and today we can't remember why it seems. We just know it's awful.

epoc_tnac		2008-10-17 01:27:22 PM

Cagey B: Crown_of_Shoes: Fill the parks with spent shell casings and corpses, turn it into a burned out battle-zone. All for what? Legalize it and the cartels vanish overnight. Simply allow responsible adults to grow 4-5 plants and you can even ban the sale of these plants and the cartels go away overnight.

I'm in favor of legalizing it as well, but both you and I know that's not happening for a while yet. Why should we let organized crime come in and appropriate our parkland, and dump freaking chemicals all over the place in the meantime?

Because it's profitable for the cartels to do so. You could throw millions at the problem, and turn national parks into little Colombia, or you could just change one stupid law that should never have been put in place.

Unfortunately, the government would prefer the first option. Maybe Obama's government won't be that dumb, but I'm not holding any hopes.

Crown_of_Shoes		2008-10-17 01:27:48 PM

Crown_of_Shoes: Three, tons of people simply won't like it.

*Addendum: It's not addictive

**double-addendum: I'm not going to get mired in a debate with people who wish to argue it is. Sorry, no time, and you are wrong.

KramericaWallet		2008-10-17 01:29:02 PM

"What's going on on public lands is a crisis at every level," said Forest Service agent Ron Pugh. "These are America's most precious resources, and they are being devastated by an unprecedented commercial enterprise conducted by armed foreign nationals. It is a huge mess."

But McCain said America's most precious resource is American blood.

JohnBigBootay		2008-10-17 01:29:34 PM

justanotherfarkinfarker: I don't know, look at booze. I could setup a still and make my own dirt cheap. Heck I can get local feed corn by the ton for next to nothing. But why bother. It is illegal and I can go buy a gallon of cheap legal booze for a few bucks. You have the high end markets for weed, with all the fancy grades. I think it would all work out.

Yeah, you could make some shiatty moonshine, but why bother. It's messy, time consuming, and frankly quite difficult. You can grow some kickass weed with a bucket and a grow light way easier than you can make your own Glennfiddich 25 year.

EdNortonsTwin		2008-10-17 01:29:54 PM

wolvernova: EdNortonsTwin: But they're just here to work...

Yeah, and notice there are already objections in this thread to the word "Mexican", as if it's now taboo to note where crime or drugs is coming from so long as it involves our porous southern border. The people whining about that crap are also so stupid that they think Lou Dobbs hates Mexicans.

They're sing the race card - how original. It's time to identify who the front organizations who back the influx of illegal labor and crime. La Raza and their supporters are getting rich from the cheap labor and underground economy. If our leaders won't stand up to these farks I say they are straight up cowards.

xebeche_tzu		2008-10-17 01:30:03 PM

A law against a plant.

Senor Awesome		2008-10-17 01:30:09 PM

Steed Lankershim: Legalize possession of 10oz or less and 10 plants or less, but keep sales without a license illegal. A huge amount of people would start growing their own personal stash and the others would buy at shops and pay a tax. The gangs would be crippled, crime would drop significantly and jails would begin to empty to make room for violent felons. That is all.

I would support this. You'd also be opening a channel for tax which you could use to support rehab for people trying to overcome real (far more dangerous) drugs.

every god for himself		2008-10-17 01:30:32 PM

Armed foreign nationals? In my national parks? It's more likely than you think.

/send in the SEALS

JohnBigBootay		2008-10-17 01:32:52 PM

"Government waste" has become everyone's favorite catchphrase so let's do something about it.

USA with illegal marijuana and spending millions on weed enforcement = anyone can get weed

USA with legal marijuana and spending 0 on weed enforcement = anyone can get weed

I'm not seeing the problem here. Let's save the country some money.

epoc_tnac		2008-10-17 01:34:34 PM

JohnBigBootay: "Government waste" has become everyone's favorite catchphrase so let's do something about it.

USA with illegal marijuana and spending millions on weed enforcement = anyone can get weed

USA with legal marijuana and spending 0 on weed enforcement = anyone can get weed

I'm not seeing the problem here. Let's save the country some money.

But you do lose an oppurtunity to lock up millions of people who annoy you, if you catch my drift.

sonofslacker		2008-10-17 01:35:14 PM

The only way to catch a doper is when you yourself become a smoker. The surest way to make them bleed is when you bust their ass and steal their weed.

CygnusDarius		2008-10-17 01:35:34 PM

JohnBigBootay		2008-10-17 01:37:07 PM

epoc_tnac: But you do lose an oppurtunity to lock up millions of people who annoy you, if you catch my drift.

Completely agree.

hitlersbrain		2008-10-17 01:39:42 PM

How to win the war on drugs in 4 easy steps - 100% guaranty!:

1. Convert abandoned parts of ghettos into 'drug zones' and supply them with free housing, food, water and rudimentary health care clinics (nothing fancy just the barest basics).

2. Legalize all drugs but make them available for free ONLY in drug zones. Drugs are supplied by legitimate companies for almost nothing.

3. To receive your quota of drugs you must first take birth control pills (men and women). You also will not be allowed to leave the zone with the drugs or if you are still impaired by their effects.

4. Wait.

The cost will be a tiny fraction of the 'war' on drugs and in a generation or two you will have almost no junkies.

PokeyMon		2008-10-17 01:39:57 PM

South o' the border, pot is like three dollars a handful. Crack cocaine is two bucks a day. Pure cocaine is five dollars a gram.
Drugs have no value until they end up north.
So drugs will be a biatch because people LIKE TO GET HIGH....

wolvernova		2008-10-17 01:43:09 PM

EdNortonsTwin: wolvernova: EdNortonsTwin: But they're just here to work...

Yeah, and notice there are already objections in this thread to the word "Mexican", as if it's now taboo to note where crime or drugs is coming from so long as it involves our porous southern border. The people whining about that crap are also so stupid that they think Lou Dobbs hates Mexicans.

They're sing the race card - how original. It's time to identify who the front organizations who back the influx of illegal labor and crime. La Raza and their supporters are getting rich from the cheap labor and underground economy. If our leaders won't stand up to these farks I say they are straight up cowards.

It is repulsive. And in terms of illegal immigration, it is hardly a race issue for me, and I suspect most people as well. It is completely farked up at this point. I find it almost as abhorrent how some people don't even want to talk about it. Farkers like notmtwain who take offense to the word Mexico in an article about cartels from Mexico growing drugs in our country. Gimme a break.

So to reiterate: drugs, illegal immigrants, human smuggling, and open borders are all related issues.

Belltower		2008-10-17 01:43:34 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: Hippies - keep this in mind next time you light up.

Prohibitionists -- keep this in mind next time you support the WoD.

/I don't partake
//I don't feel I have the right to hold a gun to someone's head and tell them they can't

JohnBigBootay		2008-10-17 01:44:22 PM

hitlersbrain

WTF are you talking about?

Poppa Boner		2008-10-17 01:44:52 PM

People light up a joint

Done. Now what?

The Dread Pirate Robertson		2008-10-17 01:45:37 PM

FTFA:

Foy said. "You ain't just smoking pot, bud."

Comedy gold.

El Dudereno		2008-10-17 01:49:53 PM

Bohemian: Label the cartels as terrorist or invading foreign entities and treat them as such. Start sending these farkers to gitmo.

The best way to legalize would be to sell growing permits. Contingent on the permit would be the location and growing standards that they can't use banned chemicals and other restrictions. Make legally grown pot legal to use and legal to buy via the stamp tax like they do smokes. Any pot not from a legal growing operation and not with a legal tax stamp is a big prison sentence and fines. IIRC the fines to selling items without paying the federal ATF taxes is a bigger prison term than drug distribution.

The taxes collected off the legal stuff would give the economy a boost. Possessing illegal pot because it was cheaper would hold too high a risk for the average pothead.

I like where you're going except for the bold part. Taxes don't boost the economy. The transactions between people growing pot and people buying pot would do that. Government revenues, however, would see a boost, and expenses would see a reduction. The billions spent enforcing laws against pot and incarcerating people for posession/distribution could be redirected to fighting dangerous drugs - like meth.

little big man		2008-10-17 01:50:06 PM

Cato: This is ultimately a problem with the very concept of Federal Lands. It is the tragedy of the commons. Nobody owns the land, so nobody takes care of it, so random people can just wander in and set up shop and nobody knows or cares or does anything about it.

Actually, we all own it, and we should all take care of it. I know of 3 organizations in our town of 30k people that spend a lot of time in nat'l forests, BLM, and Yellowstone cleaning up and maintaining.

SharkInfested		2008-10-17 01:50:47 PM

Does anyone else find the LOL WUT pear thingy creepy? There are threads where I know it's going to appear, and I scroll cautiously until I see the top (stem?) and then scurry past.

/yeah, I know, lay off the reefer

El Dudereno		2008-10-17 01:52:56 PM

Crown_of_Shoes: Sticky Hands: lets not pretend that we are going to have hordes of hobby growers.
we will end up with a situation more like Tabacco.

You can't grow tobacco in your backyard, one. Two, it's way more casual. Three, tons of people simply won't like it.

Actually, you can. Seeds are available over the internet and tobacco grows easily in either a large container or in the ground. You just have to know how to properly dry it for smoking.

hitlersbrain		2008-10-17 01:59:49 PM

JohnBigBootay: hitlersbrain

WTF are you talking about?

Oh, sorry is this thread just high school pot jokes?

'thunk - thunk - thunk'
"Dude, that was my skull! I'm soooo wasted! I'm gonna go date that bull-dike lesbo singer chick!"

Isildur		2008-10-17 01:59:54 PM

srtpointman: FTA:"If the people of California knew what was going on out there, they'd be up in arms about this," said Shane Krogen, the nonprofit's executive director. "Helicopters full of dope are like body counts in the Vietnam War. What does it really mean?"

What the hell does that mean?

Came here to ask this. Thank you for the explamation, JohnBigBootay.

LMark		2008-10-17 02:00:59 PM

Look at what happened after Prohibition ended, the speakeasies and "bathtub gin" establishments went out of business in an instant. (I know there are still a few folks makin' moonshine, but it represents a tiny portion of the alcohol industry) It would be the same thing with marijuana. The current national park pot growers would not be able to compete with, let's say, Phillip Morris switching a bunch of its tobbacco fields over to pot, which is the likely result of legalization. All of the issues with illegal pot growers' destruction of our wilderness areas would disappear with legalization.

mozetti		2008-10-17 02:01:07 PM

JohnBigBootay: hitlersbrain

WTF are you talking about?

Yeah, that plan makes no sense at all. After step 4, you just have overcrowded, junkie-infested slums. So, pretty much exactly what we have today.

Crown_of_Shoes		2008-10-17 02:10:14 PM

El Dudereno: Crown_of_Shoes: Sticky Hands: lets not pretend that we are going to have hordes of hobby growers.
we will end up with a situation more like Tabacco.

You can't grow tobacco in your backyard, one. Two, it's way more casual. Three, tons of people simply won't like it.

Actually, you can. Seeds are available over the internet and tobacco grows easily in either a large container or in the ground. You just have to know how to properly dry it for smoking.

I stand corrected. And maybe I'm wrong about a Cannabis Super Complex.

MaddCutty		2008-10-17 02:11:44 PM

markie_farkie: Legalize it, regulate it, tax it.

Use tax revenues initially to clean up illegal grow sites.

Problem solved.

what U said.

SharkInfested		2008-10-17 02:12:16 PM

hitlersbrain: How to win the war on drugs in 4 easy steps - 100% guaranty!:

1. Convert abandoned parts of ghettos into 'drug zones' and supply them with free housing, food, water and rudimentary health care clinics (nothing fancy just the barest basics).

2. Legalize all drugs but make them available for free ONLY in drug zones. Drugs are supplied by legitimate companies for almost nothing.

3. To receive your quota of drugs you must first take birth control pills (men and women). You also will not be allowed to leave the zone with the drugs or if you are still impaired by their effects.

4. Wait.

The cost will be a tiny fraction of the 'war' on drugs and in a generation or two you will have almost no junkies.

You realise that not everyone who uses illegal drugs is a "junky", right? The majority of people partake some times and responsibly. As much as the "Oh nos, all drug users are junkies!" crowd doesn't want to hear it, there is such a thing as recreational drug use, just like there is such a thing as having a glass of wine with dinner and not being a Night Train drinking homeless wino

grotto_man		2008-10-17 02:13:38 PM

Problem is that the Supreme Court has blocked the US from executing these Farkers, they only allow capital punishment for murder. Take them out with painfully better yet, and publicly, and you'll make others too afraid to come to our country and despoil and forests.

Pyr0		2008-10-17 02:15:10 PM

The Dread Pirate Robertson: FTFA:

Foy said. "You ain't just smoking pot, bud."

You ain't just smoking bud, herb.
You ain't just smoking herb, grass.
You ain't just smoking grass, pot.

JohnBigBootay		2008-10-17 02:16:25 PM

hitlersbrain: Oh, sorry is this thread just high school pot jokes?

'thunk - thunk - thunk'
"Dude, that was my skull! I'm soooo wasted! I'm gonna go date that bull-dike lesbo singer chick!"

Aaaaaaaaaand I still have no idea what you are talking about.

I_Love_Verdi		2008-10-17 02:17:31 PM

BobtheFascist: I can see the campaign now...

"Marijuana: It's not just killing brain cells, it's killing the ENVIRONMENT."

And it's putting money in the hands of these assholes who are throwing grenades into crowds of people in Mexico.

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