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(Wired)   Scientist says Chimps are People. Says "They haven't built a rocket ship to the moon." but they have ridden in a few   (blog.wired.com) divider line 268
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1221 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Oct 2008 at 6:05 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-10-14 02:49:39 PM
Didn't Spain already grant them rights? Or was going to at least.
 
2008-10-14 04:38:59 PM
Of course they are. We voted one in as our leader of the free world!
 
2008-10-14 04:55:41 PM
FTFA:Fouts is one of a growing number of scientists and ethicists who believe that chimpanzees - as well as orangutans, bonobos and gorillas, a group colloquially known as great apes - ought to be considered people.

There are a lot of folks who think the same about their dogs and cats too. I think they're nuts. People=human beings
 
2008-10-14 04:59:18 PM
Chimps may well be sentient beings, but they are not people.
 
2008-10-14 05:02:02 PM
I don't understand the reason behind these claims. I'll grant that Chimps and other assorted ape/monkey animals possess sentience and the ability to think, learn, communicate etc, but they're clearly not people, or human. Grant them greater protection if you want but they're not people. Who's to say that cats don't have exactly the same mental properties as us? Seeing, thinking, wondering, pondering, surfing, erm, skiing, whatever, they still wouldn't be people. Dogs on the other hand are completely rubbish.
 
2008-10-14 05:03:56 PM
Monkeys always remind me of one of my favorite Seanbaby quotes ... 'If Korea had a space program, they'd end up launching a cardboard box full of monkeys into the sun with the words "Peekaboo Perfect Space Explore" painted on the side.'
 
2008-10-14 05:10:51 PM
I figure if creationists, anti-abortionists, holocaust deniers, and 9/11 Truthers can be considered persons, why not chimpanzees? Chimps are a hell of a lot smarter, at least.
 
2008-10-14 05:16:42 PM
Kome: I figure if creationists, anti-abortionists, holocaust deniers, and 9/11 Truthers can be considered persons, why not chimpanzees? Chimps are a hell of a lot smarter, at least.

I'd add dolphins onto the list. The way I see it, you can either narrow the definition of sapience enough to keep other species out (and guarantee that a decent number of humans fail the test) or you expand it to include all humans, and suddenly some animals slip in too.

Our genes demand we promote the success of our own species, but our success doesn't require the destruction of other sapient life on the planet.
 
2008-10-14 05:20:08 PM
As a population of West African chimpanzees dwindles to critically endangered levels, scientists atheists are calling for a definition of personhood that includes our close evolutionary cousins.

Evolutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.
 
2008-10-14 05:23:21 PM
Dr. Zaius: Dr. Zira, I must caution you. Experimental brain surgery on these creatures is one thing, and I'm all in favor of it. But your behavior studies are another matter. To suggest that we can learn anything about the simian nature from a study of man is sheer nonsense. Why, man is a nuisance. He eats up his food supply in the forest, then migrates to our green belts and ravages our crops. The sooner he is exterminated, the better. It's a question of simian survival.
 
2008-10-14 05:24:20 PM
HOLLY CRAP ITS A BEVETS SIGHTING!
 
2008-10-14 05:27:02 PM
Bevets: As a population of West African chimpanzees dwindles to critically endangered levels, scientists atheists are calling for a definition of personhood that includes our close evolutionary cousins.

Evolutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.


Dude, where have you been?
 
2008-10-14 05:28:35 PM
If chimps are people I'm going to want to see a lot more indecent explore arrests and a serious accounting their complete failure to file income tax.
 
2008-10-14 05:32:46 PM
flucto: If chimps are people I'm going to want to see a lot more indecent explore arrests and a serious accounting their complete failure to file income tax.


It'll also mean I get to fling around feces without ending up getting arrested like last time.
 
2008-10-14 05:36:20 PM
ninjakirby: Didn't Spain already grant them rights? Or was going to at least.

I thought it was Austria but maybe Im wrong. It was in a specific case where the monkey received chaitable donations and was declare a human. I could be making it up but I remember reading something like that on her a year or two ago.
 
2008-10-14 05:46:52 PM
RoxtarRyan: It'll also mean I get to fling around feces without ending up getting arrested like last time.

I'm reasonably sure flinging poop at the Pope from a helicopter will still get you arrested now matter the legal status of chimps.
 
2008-10-14 05:59:32 PM
flucto: I'm reasonably sure flinging poop at the Pope from a helicopter will still get you arrested now matter the legal status of chimps.

I do believe that this is the thread ender.
 
2008-10-14 06:00:47 PM
Bevets: As a population of West African chimpanzees dwindles to critically endangered levels, scientists atheists are calling for a definition of personhood that includes our close evolutionary cousins.

Evolutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.


I would think you, of all Farkers, would totally be in favor of this. It's one step closer to granting personhood to a blastocyst, which is far less complex or developed than a chimpanzee.
 
2008-10-14 06:08:18 PM
No, SOYLENT GREEN is people. The answer is Soylent Green.

But thanks for playing. We have some excellent parting gifts.
 
2008-10-14 06:10:24 PM
People, huh? And where does that end? Moving into our neighborhood, their kids going to our schools, and before you know it, you get one wanting to marry your daughter.
 
2008-10-14 06:12:45 PM
well, elephants have been found to suffer from PTSD. Should they be considered people (fatty thread?)?
 
2008-10-14 06:16:11 PM
Kome: I figure if creationists, anti-abortionists, holocaust deniers, and 9/11 Truthers can be considered persons, why not chimpanzees? Chimps are a hell of a lot smarter, at least.

Hey! I fall under a few of those categories...

so you have irrefutable proof that the universe/Earth was not created?

/so you like to kill babies?
//lets get this ball rolling
 
2008-10-14 06:19:50 PM
I drunk what: so you have irrefutable proof that the universe/Earth was not created?

You're asking me if I can prove a negative? Tsk tsk. I don't subscribe to the steady state theory, but if I did, I could easily turn the question around on you and ask you to prove that the universe was created instead of it having always existed.

/so you like to kill babies?

Only the ones that act like dicks. I mean, really, where does that little sh*t get off kicking my pregnant wife in the stomach?
 
2008-10-14 06:27:16 PM
CrankMyBlueSax: Humans may well be sentient beings, but they are often not people.

FTFY
 
2008-10-14 06:28:00 PM
www.scifimoviepage.com
 
2008-10-14 06:29:50 PM
I drunk what: Kome: I figure if creationists, anti-abortionists, holocaust deniers, and 9/11 Truthers can be considered persons, why not chimpanzees? Chimps are a hell of a lot smarter, at least.

Hey! I fall under a few of those categories...

so you have irrefutable proof that the universe/Earth was not created?
/so you like to kill babies?
//lets get this ball rolling


Someone failed Logic 101.

i6.photobucket.com
 
2008-10-14 06:32:42 PM
Charlie was a man.


/Sometimes you need a shyster.
 
2008-10-14 06:35:34 PM
Never been more appropriate:

fundamentalbaptistlinks.com
 
2008-10-14 06:36:09 PM
Say we declare great apes persons under the law. What's the drawback?
 
2008-10-14 06:36:15 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
/monkeys in outer spaaace
//protecting the freedom of the human race
 
2008-10-14 06:38:50 PM
robbiedo: CrankMyBlueSax: Humans may well be sentient beings, but they are often not people.

FTFY


I'll say. Those girls under the floor in my basement were sentient, but I never related to them as people.
 
2008-10-14 06:45:46 PM
Bevets: volutionism is the tinfoil hat atheists wear to keep God out of their brainwaves.

OK Bev, allow me to try a different track.

I double dog dare you to look up Ken Miller, and Robert T. Bakker. I especially invite you to try to discuss your beliefs with Doctor Bakker, especially since he may disagree with you regarding your unfounded belief that understanding of science (evolution) will automatically turn you into an atheist. Ken Miller is a devout Catholic, and Robert T. Bakker is a Pentecostal Minister.
But both "believe" evolution.

See, here is the deal. You might be happy thinking that by rejecting evolution, you are only rejecting a very narrow, inconsequential, scientific theory.
In reality, you are denying the scientific method, and with it all modern science. If the earth is only 6000 years wrong, then gravity is incorrect, for starters.
 
2008-10-14 06:47:01 PM
Selector: Someone failed Logic 101.

was it I?

i'm not 2 smrt...

besides proving that our universe (with all its "laws" n stuff) is way harder to prove that it all happened on accident by itself rather than have been created/designed, kinda like finding a clock on a beach and thinking, yeah this happened naturally on accident! Lumps of iron ore clearly evolved into steel gears and accidentally bumped into each other in order to tell time.

Someone failed logic, indeed

/are atheists the angry yeller in your cartoon?
 
2008-10-14 06:49:25 PM
maddogdelta: If the earth is only 6000 years wrong old

dammit

I drunk what: is way harder to prove that it all happened on accident by itself rather than have been created/designed,

Here is a double dog dare for you. Find one scientist who thinks everything happened "by accident". By making that statement, you are just rehashing what some preacher told you. I double dog dare you to find out for yourself what preeminent scientists themselves say.
 
2008-10-14 06:49:33 PM
Kome: I drunk what: so you have irrefutable proof that the universe/Earth was not created?

You're asking me if I can prove a negative? Tsk tsk. I don't subscribe to the steady state theory, but if I did, I could easily turn the question around on you and ask you to prove that the universe was created instead of it having always existed.

/so you like to kill babies?

Only the ones that act like dicks. I mean, really, where does that little sh*t get off kicking my pregnant wife in the stomach?


lh3.ggpht.com
 
2008-10-14 06:53:08 PM
I hate every ape I see,
From Chimpan-A to Chimpanzee
No, you'll never make a monkey out of me

Oh my gosh, I was wrong-
it was Earth all along!
Guess you've finally made a monkey
(yes we've finally made a monkey)
Yes you've finaly made a monkey out of me!

I love you Dr Zaius!
 
2008-10-14 06:55:16 PM
I drunk what: besides proving that our universe (with all its "laws" n stuff) is way harder to prove that it all happened on accident by itself rather than have been created/designed, kinda like finding a clock on a beach and thinking, yeah this happened naturally on accident! Lumps of iron ore clearly evolved into steel gears and accidentally bumped into each other in order to tell time.


Is this really how you think evolution and natural selection works??
 
2008-10-14 06:58:21 PM
I drunk what: besides proving that our universe (with all its "laws" n stuff) is way harder to prove that it all happened on accident by itself rather than have been created/designed, kinda like finding a clock on a beach and thinking, yeah this happened naturally on accident! Lumps of iron ore clearly evolved into steel gears and accidentally bumped into each other in order to tell time.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see a clock on a beach, if I found fossils of clock-like devices that were less likely to survive on the basis they were not clock-like...
 
2008-10-14 07:00:30 PM
maddogdelta: Here is a double dog dare for you.

I triple-dog-dare you to lick the frozen flag pole!!!1!

/I'm just stirring up stuff till OldGrover shows up
//we got some dialogue to finish!
 
2008-10-14 07:01:55 PM
Just because I like this clip: Monkeys in Outer Space (note: graphic claymation violence)
 
2008-10-14 07:02:27 PM
I drunk what: I triple-dog-dare you to lick the frozen flag pole!!!1!

NOO KA NOW WHA OOO II OOO?
 
2008-10-14 07:02:31 PM
I think, therefore I am.

Being a 'being' is all predicated on the condition of consciousness. No consciousness - no being. No, that doesn't mean sleeping makes one a non-being, although severe brain-damage will (Terry Shivo anyone?).

I.e. killing 1000 1st trimester embryos is less of a crime than killing one Chimp...

/my morality is logically consistent, and eschews capriciousness.
 
2008-10-14 07:04:00 PM
I drunk what: all happened on accident by itself ??


I think you're arguing from incredulity. It's pretty easy to dimiss things you refuse to understand.


And the term is "by accident". Gawd.
 
2008-10-14 07:06:05 PM
impaler: I think, therefore I am.

Well, I drink, therefore I am. (^)
 
2008-10-14 07:08:10 PM
maddogdelta: I double dog dare you to look up Ken Miller, and Robert T. Bakker.

Don't forget the Reverand Michael Dowd.

hubiestubert

That's exactly what I had in mind when I typed that. I just couldn't find the comic to post the picture. Thanks for posting it.
 
2008-10-14 07:12:12 PM
wh0mprat: Say we declare great apes persons under the law. What's the drawback?

www.cinemaretro.com

Bevets: personhood

Wow what a stupid link. It's almost as if the author was completely ignorant of the vast swaths of studies done on human ethics that completely contradict the inane drivel that guy was spouting off about.
 
2008-10-14 07:12:16 PM
t3knomanser: I'd add dolphins onto the list. The way I see it, you can either narrow the definition of sapience enough to keep other species out (and guarantee that a decent number of humans fail the test) or you expand it to include all humans, and suddenly some animals slip in too.

If dolphins are so smart, why do they live in igloos?
 
2008-10-14 07:14:58 PM
impaler: I think, therefore I am.

Being a 'being' is all predicated on the condition of consciousness. No consciousness - no being. No, that doesn't mean sleeping makes one a non-being, although severe brain-damage will (Terry Shivo anyone?).

I.e. killing 1000 1st trimester embryos is less of a crime than killing one Chimp...

/my morality is logically consistent, and eschews capriciousness.


so are plants conscious? if I had a baby that just popped out and a baby that was 30 secs from popping out, and I did a C-section so we could talk to it "in the womb" could you tell me which one is conscious? You know that monkeys are conscious because they shared your sentiment of "I think therefore I like bananas?"

/I hope you don't ever get paralyzed or become "coma-like"
 
2008-10-14 07:15:18 PM
Ponzholio: If dolphins are so smart, why do they live in igloos?

That shows what you know. They live in wigwams!
 
2008-10-14 07:16:18 PM
wh0mprat: I think you're arguing from incredulity.

possibly

wh0mprat: It's pretty easy to dimiss things you refuse to understand.

I dismiss this statement

wh0mprat: And the term is "by accident". Gawd.

Who?
 
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