Basking_lizard: /still got in and voted bright and early this morning

Voting after work, same riding. I was considering voting NDP but I think I'm going to go Liberal. I'm not a fan of Dion but I like him better than Soundbite Jack and the Conservatives don't have a hope in hell in Halifax anyway. The NDP are way ahead in the polls here with the Liberals second and the Cons are a very distant third.

solyhhit: I'm pretty sure I'm going to excersize my voter apathy today...

Personally I'm of the opinion that those who don't vote (although I think we should have a protest None of the Above option on our ballots), by not excersising their right to vote, should not be able to complain about anything their government does. They obviously didn't care enough to be involved in the selection process they get to STFU and GBTW about the results.

Zed-ex: Dion's carbon tax is scary no matter who it winds up taxing it will end up screwing the consumer. The best incentive is to give money to those who don't over pollute.

Leading Canadian Economists agree that Cap And Trade schemes and Carbon Tax schemes, while having pro's and con's in terms of direct pricing on carbon versus better emissions control, have pretty much the same long-term impact both on the environment and on cost to consumer.

http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian_initi/environment/

Basking_lizard: Handsome B. Wonderful: Pxtl: Considering that the NDP has gone off the rails into wackyland

I liked the commercial I saw where Jack Layton promised to hire more doctors and nurses. And I thought to myself, that's great because we have all those unemployed doctors and nurses just sitting around waiting for a job...

Perhaps he was referring to doctors and nurses who immigrate to Canada and then have to jump through so many hoops to work in their fields that it becomes prohibitively expensive and they have to take jobs in other fields to make ends meet...?

Because I have this feeling that if it was less of a bureaucratic nightmare to get certified to practice medicine here, there would be less of a doctor/nurse shortage than there is.

And I have this feeling that a lot of them aren't qualified to practice medicine in Canada and that's why they need to jump through so many hoops to be certified.

GavinTheAlmighty:

Heh, five seconds. Pretty sure that's the closest I've come to a simulpost...

The Voice of Sarcastic Reason: A conservative minority will mean another election in less than two years, but on the other hand maybe Harper will finally get the message and realize that Canadians expect him to govern across party lines, and that his "Whaaaa, I deserve a majority government!" attitude isn't a good enough excuse for him to try and take his toys and leave every time he feels pouty.

Doesn't matter. The PQ and the NDP can just shoot down the government with impunity, leaving the Liberals to negotiate with the Cons. The liberals are constantly in a double-bind.
1) if they pull the trigger, they annoy Canadians with yet-another-election that produces no noticeable change in government.
2) if they back down, they look like pussies - and after seeing Martin and Dion, that's not exactly an unfair description of those flabby losers.

The conservatives are enjoying this, because they don't really *mind* the extra elections. They always come out about the same, and each subsequent election makes the Liberals look worse. So Harper is free to keep playing hardball in the House.

Go Premiere Duceppe!

Vive la Quebec libre!

Je me souviens...

/pure laine

ROBO-Jesus: I am. Because I'm in Jack Layton's riding and he's going to win no matter what.

Okay, this reason makes sense to me.

a douche, a turd sandwich, a clown, a tree-hugger and a Frenchie as a leader

Sounds like a primary here in the states.

Elvis Da King: I've been around longer than I'd care to admit, and I've NEVER seen a Liberal Government do anything more than promise to lower taxes to get in. Followed quickly when elected by the statement; "The guys that we just replaced left everything in a shambles. We are going to have to raise taxes- Sorry, it's their fault, Thank God we're here."

yes exactly. Every time Chretien was in he PROMISED to get rid of the GST. He never did and yet people love him. Harper's platform was he would reduce the GST 2%, he actually did it and everyone is saying it was a publicity stunt? Plus Global warming means big money, you know how much red tape Dion's plan would encompass? You would need to hire all kinds of government consultants to come in and look at all the companies and decide how much they would tax them. Just look at the multi-million dollar in the hole gun registry program to see what happens when the Canadian government tries to put through programs like that. On top of that I can see all kinds of holes for corruption in this plan with the liberals giving less carbon tax to people they don't like and going easy on their buddies. I could see the sponsorship scandal happening all over again, if it weren't all campaign lies and the liberals did nothing like they usually do.

Red_Fox: Elvis Da King: Handsome B. Wonderful: Pxtl: Considering that the NDP has gone off the rails into wackyland

I liked the commercial I saw where Jack Layton promised to hire more doctors and nurses. And I thought to myself, that's great because we have all those unemployed doctors and nurses just sitting around waiting for a job...

THIS

I hate to break up your "THIS" moment...but you'd be surprised how many foreign doctors are cab drivers in Toronto. That was one part of the NDP strategy (because our Candian doctors agree they could help especially in an apprenticeship role at first) and forgiving doctor's student loans was part 2.

They do actually have a plan.

I fully well know. meet one every time I take a cab. The problem is that the CMA, not the Government must certify them, and they haven't budged for either the Libs or Harp so far, so why would they move for Jack?

I know very little about Canada and almost nothing about its politicians, yet I am finding this thread interesting.

Good luck, Canadians!

Nurglitch: Go Premiere Duceppe!

Vive la Quebec libre!

Je me souviens...

/pure laine

Mange la m@#de

Adman12: ROBO-Jesus: They're the only party that openly supports proportional representation, and their whole platform is quite sensible.

That's the other thing I don't like about the Greens. I think every MP should be answerable to a local constituency, NOT party bosses.

It would be a step backwards for our democracy, IMHO.

Under ordinary circumstances I agree, but the Greens are still a fringe party, filled with fringe candidates. They really can't run anything other than a rag-tag band of hippies, so standing up and saying "see, our platform is solid and reasonable, never mind what the folks we scraped together to be the local candidate says - we won't make vegetarianism mandatory and buy everybody a free bushel of patchouli".

For an established party with professional politicians, that approach works better... but for the Greens, they have to work with the candidates they've got and really can't groom them, so that means keeping a tight leash.

That's a problem with the NDP I've seen - in the last Ontario Provincial election, I was hearing good sense from the NDP leadership, and base populism from the local candidate.

Adman12: ROBO-Jesus: They're the only party that openly supports proportional representation, and their whole platform is quite sensible.

That's the other thing I don't like about the Greens. I think every MP should be answerable to a local constituency, NOT party bosses.

It would be a step backwards for our democracy, IMHO.

You're obviously referring to Ontario's (rightfully) failed MMP campaign. MMP is a bad idea. There are other systems of proportional representation that are far better - BC's single transferable vote is one of them.

In essence, you rank the candidates, so if your first choice of candidate doesn't get in, your vote goes to your second choice, etc. It essentially eliminates the need for 'strategic voting' and means that the candidate elected will actually have to have a majority of the citizens prefer them for the job.

Needless to say, our current system is far from democratic. If a candidate can win in a split riding by sometimes only 30%, can you really claim they are "answerable to a local constituency" considering the majority of people voted against them?

Basking_lizard: I'm voting for the NDP in our riding (Alexa MacDonough was our former MP and is retiring) but that said, I did it under the expectation that there is no possible way that Jack Layton will end up as PM.

Careful there. Us Ontarians thought the same thing about Bob Rae and look what that got us.

Handsome B. Wonderful:

And I have this feeling that a lot of them aren't qualified to practice medicine in Canada and that's why they need to jump through so many hoops to be certified.

So why not be constructive and set up mentorship programs and the like instead of making it so difficult to qualify that they decide to leave the country and go somewhere where they can work? I have a hard time believing that Canadian standards for doctors are so much higher than the US that doctors from other countries can practice there but not here.

Voted NDP for the first (and hopefully last time)

My voter cred

PC
GREEN
GREEN
NDP

I dislike the current liberals, the greens have no chance in my riding and they got my vote twice already, the conservatives kicked out all the progressives and are basically the reform.

I'd vote Libertarian but they didn't run anyone in my riding. And really I'm just sick of it all.


(the system i really want)

vichuck: And here I always thought the Queen appointed Canada's prime minister. I guess you learn something new every day.

It's part of our unwritten constitution. There is no mention of a PM in the written documents. Originally, the executive power was vested in the Queen (or in the GG in her name), but by constitutional convention, the executive power (among which the one to chose ministers) shifted from the GG to the chief of the party who will have the trust of the House of Commons (usually the party who elected the most MPs, though coalitions are technically possible, yet unlikely).

Elvis Da King: I fully well know. meet one every time I take a cab. The problem is that the CMA, not the Government must certify them, and they haven't budged for either the Libs or Harp so far, so why would they move for Jack?

I had heard the CMA would go for a 2 year apprenticeship program for these new immigrant doctors.

The forgivable student loans for doctors once they stay in the country 5 years as a family practitioner...I think is genius. I wish the other parties would try some stuff like that.

Just keep the kid toucher down to a minority government please. PLEASE!

omelete: Basking_lizard: I'm voting for the NDP in our riding (Alexa MacDonough was our former MP and is retiring) but that said, I did it under the expectation that there is no possible way that Jack Layton will end up as PM.

Careful there. Us Ontarians thought the same thing about Bob Rae and look what that got us.

Every time I see Bob, I get the Shivers.

Basking_lizard: GavinTheAlmighty:

Heh, five seconds. Pretty sure that's the closest I've come to a simulpost...

Great minds think alike.

The best taxi driver I ever had in Toronto was a Somali freedom fighter who had made his way to Canada. He was fighting against a warlord when he and a bunch of his comrades were gunned down. He caught a couple in the leg and stomach, while his comrades were nailed in the neck and head and were dead. He lay in a ditch, hiding from passing rebel groups when a missionary found him. The missionary hauled him up onto a horse and sent the horse running to Kenya with this guy on the back. He gets to the Kenyan border, falls off the horse and is taken in for medical treatment. A few years later, hauls his family to Toronto. He says "I see that you are a young guy. Well, I am old and my ass has been shot too many times. So we come to Canada. When you get old, there is something you must do. You must buy...a dishwasher. A piece of machinery that washes the dishes and dries them for you! Ha! It's the greatest thing I own! I don't have to spend so long in the kitchen now - I can spend more time with my children. Dishwashers. The real deal, man."

I loved that guy.

Conservatives all the way!

All the other parties have ensured they will take all my fun guns away. fark that Nazi bullshiat. I would have voted liberal if it wasnt for stephan and their loco gun policies. Stephan dion is even slimier than layton. I religiously listen to cbc radio, and not once did stephan dion make any amount of sense or come off as someone with the brains to run a country.

no one really votes for NDP.. they are kinda the joke.
the greens are the guys NDP brought along hoping to take some of the heat off them.

This website offers the latest poll numbers of each riding:

http://www.voteforenvironment.ca/

Go Green and NDP! The rest can die in a fire :D

/whole system is corrupt

solyhhit: Is there anyone actually voting Green? Why throw your vote away?

I never understood this philosophy. You don't have to 'choose' the winner this isn't a lottery. If you don't vote for what you believe in then you are throwing your vote away, you don't get any prizes for voting against your personal philosophies and picking the winner.

Prediction here: Conservative minority.
Harper's been sloppy on the economic side of things and that hasn't endeared him with the electorate; his "whatever" policies have been poorly received, and his generally being an asshat doesn't help.
Dion was a bad choice as leader, simply because I can't understand a bloody thing the guy says, and having a marble-mouthed French speaker representing us on the world stage is a bad thing. But, he's benefited from the Harper screwups, and I think he'll be taking some seats from the Cons in Quebec, which will narrow the gap between the Libs and the Cons.
NDP are well-intentioned, but no goddamn way do I want them to form a national government - full-blown socialist policies on a grand scale would be a great way to completely blow the Canadian economy into confetti. They make a good balance against the centrists and the right-wing, though, so useful.
Green? *snerk* Good luck with that.
Bloc:losing seats to the Libs and possibly NDP as younger people decide they like to be Canadian, and not the third-world nation that their leadership would inflict on them.

As a generally left-leaning voter in a riding with one of the really good Liberals, my vote's set, so it might be odd that I'd say that I *want* a Cons minority, but frankly it's worked reasonably so far, and when there's enough strength to fend off the Cons' more loopy Republican-style programs (I'm familiar with some of the leadership, and believe me, if you think the religious right in the States is wacky, you've never read up on Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day and his views), then we're in a reasonable position. Nobody can screw anything up if they don't want to be perceived as the bad guy for sparking yet another election.

Canadians: get out and vote!

Red_Fox: Elvis Da King: I fully well know. meet one every time I take a cab. The problem is that the CMA, not the Government must certify them, and they haven't budged for either the Libs or Harp so far, so why would they move for Jack?

I had heard the CMA would go for a 2 year apprenticeship program for these new immigrant doctors.

The forgivable student loans for doctors once they stay in the country 5 years as a family practitioner...I think is genius. I wish the other parties would try some stuff like that.

Most of the cabbies I've talked to went to Med school in Canada, sponsored by their home country, but now the CMA says their education is suspect??!?

The only one worth his salt:

Fuddle Duddle.

I went to vote today. Got there, realized I hated the conservatives, Liberals are already guarenteed victory here, NDP has a few good ideas follows by many bad ideas, Green party would rather us be a 4rd world country then pollute a little bit.
So i did the only logical thing, i voted for the communist party.

AuralArgument: Voted NDP for the first (and hopefully last time)

My voter cred

PC
GREEN
GREEN
NDP

I dislike the current liberals, the greens have no chance in my riding and they got my vote twice already, the conservatives kicked out all the progressives and are basically the reform.

I'd vote Libertarian but they didn't run anyone in my riding. And really I'm just sick of it all.


(the system i really want)

The Cardinal Buoy System?

Okay, don your candy & rainbow hats for a moment and let's discuss what could really happen with a proper Green Shift plan:

1) Income taxes are reduced across the board, giving every Canadian a higher net income to spend on stuff.
2) Taxes are raised on big polluters, mostly manufacturing companies.
3) The new carbon tax is passed through to the consumer. Smart companies, however, look to improve their production techniques in order to reduce their pollution and hence their taxes.
4) A disparity in the price of goods appears as the companies that innovate are able to offer more competitive prices to consumers.
5) The companies that haven't been able to reduce prices catch on and start innovating to reduce their pollution and hence their taxes.
6) Canadians have lowered their income tax AND the general pollution created by the companies that give us stuff and jobs.

Where is the problem with this scenario? Sure things might cost more initially, but isn't it about time that we start worrying so much about right now and more about the future?

Also, the Cons GST cut at the expense of a Liberal income tax cut, only helps those who have money to spend in the first place. A cap and trade carbon system does not spur innovation.

"Canadians trudge off to the polls today to choose between a douche, a turd sandwich, a clown, a tree-hugger and a Frenchie as a leader."


Why do they get better choices than we do?

entropic_existence: Personally I'm of the opinion that those who don't vote (although I think we should have a protest None of the Above option on our ballots), by not excersising their right to vote, should not be able to complain about anything their government does.

Agreed. I tend to vote for some crap party if available or just mark my ballot so it's inadmissable.

This year, I'm not voting. I don't even like stating that...

I was extremely undecided this time around.

In any case, I think minority government is generally a good thing. With either majority or minority you need broad agreement to get things done, but with minority you need to get broad agreement across a more diverse set of positions (which in my opinion is better).

OlafTheBent: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... you're kidding, right?

/"I will not tax Income Trusts" - Stephen Harper.

Let's not forget the more recent hits: "I never called the last parliament dysfunctional" and "Our expert said that that portion of the tape was doctored."

Nurglitch: pure laine

No such thing. It really means Irish immigrant.

A whole handful of Halifax people here. Cool :)

I'm in West riding though.

Sorry Cons and Greens. Especially Cons ... I refuse to vote for anyone who snarls up my morning commute traffic by waving flags and giant-Harper-Head signs at me. Knock it off!! I'm pre-coffee at that point. You're just making me angry.

I felt dirty this election. I did not not not NOT want Harper to get a majority government (but I'm fine with him being in the minority... basically keep the status quo). However, Dion always looks like he's about to burst into tears and/or run away if you were to challenge him.

Smilin' Layton I don't trust for a second, May has potential but her party stands no chance, and Ducceppe struck me as the strongest leader of the bunch... if only he didn't want to break up the country.

So I held my nose and voted Liberal to cancel out a Conservative vote at least. Still felt like a dirty whore, though.