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(Some Guy)   Death Toll of Wars in the 20th Century   (users.erols.com) divider line 101
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8376 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2002 at 3:01 AM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2002-12-31 03:02:57 AM  
Caligulus Ceasar: "More Conviction!"
 
ME!
2002-12-31 03:03:42 AM  
I know the answer. The answer is too many deaths.
 
2002-12-31 03:04:25 AM  
The 21st will be worse. Within 30 years, it'll be at around 7,000,000,000 casualities.
 
2002-12-31 03:05:36 AM  
thank the terrorists and muslims that we can get an early start on this century!
 
2002-12-31 03:06:15 AM  
I second that ME!.
I suppose I should have been shocked at the number of wars and skirmishes that were on his list. That was boggling.
 
2002-12-31 03:07:27 AM  
If I read this right, then it says Hitler murdered about twice as many people as Stalin.

I guess the tradition of choosing between the lesser of two evils has always been an American tradition...
 
2002-12-31 03:08:38 AM  
Prepare to add more deaths to that list.

It's nice to know that our president has made every effort to avoid peace.

North Korea continues to act koo-koo for Cocoa-Puffs with nuclear weapons, and we keep focusing on oil reserves...I mean Saddam Hussein.

Hipnerd
I ate dog food.
I''m not proud.
 
2002-12-31 03:08:46 AM  
...and failing to proofread for redundancies has always been a Grey Fox tradition...
 
2002-12-31 03:12:39 AM  
Hipnerd: The Twentieth Century is over; why add more?


Jeez if we think we got a population problem today, just imagine if these were allowed a full life. All countries would be aspiring little China's.
 
2002-12-31 03:15:58 AM  
Islamic Jihad- will hopefully have the biggest contribution to the next century.


Anybody who stands between America and Freedom shall perish...
 
2002-12-31 03:21:14 AM  
Last night in Age of Kings, I managed to kill over 350 enemy units! Instead of attacking the watchtowers which contained all my archers, the AI instead kept trying to knock down the 3 layer obstacle of stone walls - which I constantly kept repairing!

Who says war isn't fun?
 
2002-12-31 03:29:47 AM  
It depends on how you look at it. You can take a callous, faux-pragmatic stance and say that war is the best way for western countries of the 1st world to cull their excess population. Our health system has simply created a situation in which most of us are healthy. Our economic system has created a situation in which most of us are unneccessary. Our food surplus has created a situation in which we have no neccessary starvation. We have to send our young men to war before they can breed too much. (Of course, the stringent fitness requirements during WWII created a situation whereby the only men in the UK left available to breed from were short and flatfooted and nearsighted....or american G.I.s)

Another stance you could take is the reasonable one which says politicians make statements about the neccessity of war with full knowledge that the consequences will never be felt firsthand by themselves or their families. Just send in a few thousand meat puppets and we'll show (add foreign politician's name here). You're average joe in any given country couldn't give a rat's arse about the average joe in any other country until he's told to.

Still, it's hard not to get disenchanted when people you thought were reasonable and intelligent buy the party line with no questions asked.
 
2002-12-31 03:40:09 AM  
Don't put war solely on the given leaders (politicians) of a country, demagogues such as Marx and bin Laden have done their fair share in establishing bloodlust in otherwise disinterested people.

I hope you realize my post was toungue in cheek (at least partially)
 
2002-12-31 03:45:39 AM  
Man, those crappy 3rd world countries suck.

It's good to hear that while America has more bombs than the rest of the world combined, crappyass third world countries killed more people in the 1900s than America will in its entire existence (prolly around 3000 yrs). Why don't those damn hippies protest myanmar?

Also, there's no goddamn population problem. How much land area of the US is populated, like 2%? The problem is that most people live in crappy countries with crappy governments, and those people tend to reproduce the most. If you take out immigration, many 1st world countries have shrinking populations due to the lack of reproduction. Yet in crappyass fascist/communist countries full of poor people they pop out 30 kids each, even though only a few survive past age 9.

But what can you do?
 
2002-12-31 03:46:57 AM  
Oh, hey, no problem. It wasn't anything you said in particular, BRL72. I've just heard other people say it in complete seriousness. I guess I'm just a little fed up with people I talk to who are all for this war overseas. It seems like we're grasping at straws to find an excuse to start a war sometimes. A lot of the excuses sound shaky, but try explaining that to some brainwashed idiot who never wants to hear anything but the official version he's meant to hear.
 
2002-12-31 03:49:50 AM  
Jeremyf , did you read the disclaimer? The numbers are not exact and sometimes a government, the victor, without fail, will rewrite them. Who is the perennial victor this last hundred years, huh?
 
2002-12-31 04:02:19 AM  
There is a difference between a 'brainwashed' person and someone who is ignorant of the facts and or reality of the situation, and too lazy to explore further.

People like to feel superior to others, war is just an extreme example of being part of the 'in crowd'. Germany under the National Socialists is a perfect example. It sucks, it is not rational by any definition of the word, but it is fundamentally human.

on that...Good night, and pleasant dreams.
 
2002-12-31 04:05:13 AM  
Well done posters on this thread for the most fatuous discussion ever managed on fark yet.
 
2002-12-31 04:08:07 AM  
Waittaminnit!

This is totally wrong. All deaths from war, etc., are America's fault. Duh. Of course, it mentions Hitler... how cliche.

Decker12
350? Puh-leez. Just pop out the light cavalry to knock out their seige weapons, and you wont have to rebuild anything. Those idiots will throw their infantry against your walls/meatgrinder. War is funny.
 
2002-12-31 04:14:07 AM  
am I the only one who was a bit pissed off at this:

Was it worth 50,000 lives to create an independent United States rather than to peacefully evolve into a bigger Canada?

how does he know it would be peaceful? how does he know canada wouldn't "evolve" into america?

wtf?
 
2002-12-31 04:22:04 AM  
Scopa: Was it worth 50,000 lives to create an independent United States rather than to peacefully evolve into a bigger Canada?

how does he know it would be peaceful? how does he know canada wouldn't "evolve" into america?


I think the point was that the American Revolution cost 50,000 lives and the end result was not appreciably better than Canada, which peacefully gained its independence over time. That's 20/20 hindsight, though.

Canada doesn't need to "evolve" into America. It's already here in North America where it belongs.

Hipnerd
The rumors are true.

Erik Estrada kissed me.

(with pictures)
 
2002-12-31 04:31:02 AM  
I feel disgustingly informed.
 
2002-12-31 04:31:27 AM  
Abortions: 29,247,142 legal abortions were performed in the United States, 1970-95. (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Vol. 47 No. SS-2)


God damn, thats some good population control
 
2002-12-31 04:39:42 AM  
Harmonia:

"Well done posters on this thread for the most fatuous discussion ever managed on fark yet."

Like you would know.

Hipnerd:

"Canada doesn't need to "evolve" into America. It's already here in North America where it belongs."

Now if they would just realise that they are already a state.
 
2002-12-31 04:43:46 AM  
woo! oldie but goodie!

greetings...this is the secretary of war at the state department of the united states...we have a problem.
the companies want something done about this sluggish world economic situation...profits have been running a little thin lately and we need to stimulate some growth...
now we know there's an alarmingly high number of young people roaming around in your country with nothing to do but stir up trouble for the police and damage private property. it doesn't look like they'll ever get a job...
it's about time we did something constructive with these people...we've got thousands of 'em here too.
they're crawling all over...the companies think it's time we all sit down, have a serious get-together-and start another war...the president?
he loves the idea! all those missiles streaming overhead to and fro...napalm...people running down the road, skin on fire...the soviets seem up for it...the kremlin's been itching for the real thing for years.
hell, afghanistan's no fun...so whadya say?...we don't even have to win this war.
we just want to cut down on some of this excess population...now look.
just start up a draft; draft as many of those people as you can.
we'll call up every last youngster we can get our hands on, hand 'em some speed, give 'em an hour or two to learn how to use an automatic rifle and send 'em on their way...
libya? el salvador? how 'bout northern ireland? or a "moderately repressive regime" in south america?...
we'll just cook up a good soviet threat story in the middle east-we need that oil...
we had libya all ready to go and colonel khadafy's hit squad didn't even show up.
i tell ya...that man is unreliable. the kremlin had their fingers on the button just like we did for that one...
now just think for a minute-we can make this war so big-so big...the more people we kill in this war, the more the economy will prosper...we can get rid of practically everybody on your dole queue if we plan this right.
take every loafer on welfare right off our computer rolls...
now don't worry about demonstrations-just pump up your drug supply. so many people have hooked themselves on heroin and amphetamines since we took over, it's just like vietnam.
we had everybody so busy with lsd they never got too strong. kept the war functioning just fine...it's easy.
we've got our college kids so interested in beer they don't even care if we start manufacturing germ bombs again.
put a nuclear stockpile in their back yard, they wouldn't even know what it looked like...so how 'bout it?
look -war is money.
the arms manufacturers tell me unless we get our bomb factories up to full production the whole economy is going to collapse...the soviets are in the same boat. we all agree the time has come for the big one, so whadya say?!?...
that's excellent. we knew you'd agree...the companies will be very pleased.
 
2002-12-31 04:44:22 AM  
I think the point was that the American Revolution cost 50,000 lives and the end result was not appreciably better than Canada, which peacefully gained its independence over time. That's 20/20 hindsight, though.

Yes, but it could be argued (strongly) that Canada only got it's independence as a result of America breaking away and severing the majority of new world resourse aquisition, and providing pressure for all sorts of british anti-imperialism and whatnot.
 
2002-12-31 04:46:02 AM  
I'd rather live in Canada, all the same. Lots of reasons, like decriminalisation....decriminalisation....and they seem to educate towards a higher standard of intelligence overall. At least it appears to be a place where people don't mind what you do so long as it isn't hurting anyone else. Maybe I'm substituting "uninhabited hinterland" for "Canada" again. Having another one of my hermit fantasies.
 
2002-12-31 04:46:07 AM  
"12-31-02 04:39:42 AM Bildo
Harmonia:

"Well done posters on this thread for the most fatuous discussion ever managed on fark yet."

Like you would know"

cutting or what!
 
2002-12-31 04:49:00 AM  
No you are!
 
2002-12-31 04:51:22 AM  
Really, harmonia. You haven't had much to say that isn't insulting and completely without backup. You call OUR posts fatuous?
 
2002-12-31 05:00:45 AM  
Sheila, can you honestly say the above set of posts qualifies for any other description?

"12-31-02 03:05:36 AM Taco_x
thank the terrorists and muslims that we can get an early start on this century!"

"12-31-02 03:21:14 AM Decker12
Last night in Age of Kings, I managed to kill over 350 enemy units!"

"People like to feel superior to others, war is just an extreme example of being part of the 'in crowd'.

How would you describe it?
 
2002-12-31 05:03:37 AM  
fair enough, but instead of just saying fatuous and leaving it at that you could have saved yourself the time and qualified it right then and there.
 
2002-12-31 05:07:13 AM  
Harmonia: Did you just read what that chick Sheilanagig wrote about you? I wouldn't take that.
 
2002-12-31 05:13:29 AM  
Stop being a sh|t-stirrer, Pete.
 
2002-12-31 05:17:03 AM  
OMG!
Harmonia: Did you just see what that crazy Francis Farmer just said to me?
 
2002-12-31 05:24:31 AM  
excellent post, i have learned today. wasnt it fark that posted www.warscholar.com before... night!
 
2002-12-31 05:25:47 AM  
Pot meet Ketel 1. Now go smoke and drink and call each other black or whatever.

I just made that up. You can use it if you want. I just want some credit if you do.

I really crack myself up sometimes.
 
2002-12-31 05:32:02 AM  
12-31-02 03:15:58 AM An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name

Anybody who stands between America and Freedom shall perish...


Which America do you live in? I'd like to move to one that still has "Freedom."
 
2002-12-31 05:32:30 AM  
I found this site several years ago when I was researching Soviet democide numbers. The website was a lot smaller then.

You guys should really look through the entire site and check out all his numbers. Matthew White is amazing. The guy really does his homework.
 
2002-12-31 05:34:43 AM  
"Democide"

Dictionary.com hasn't heard of it, care to elaborate bb?
 
2002-12-31 05:37:02 AM  
Found a definition

"Democide: The murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder."

Bit of a dumb word really.
 
2002-12-31 05:39:06 AM  
Sorry. I was off looking up some stuff. I think what he's talking about is when Stalin killed all those people through a combo of starvation, gulags and just plain war.

On a side-note, somewhat related, anyone here ever heard of the Posse Comitatus Act? Might be a handy thing to run a search on it. We might lose it soon and end up like the USSR under Stalin.
 
2002-12-31 05:47:15 AM  
The word democide was invented by Rudolph J. Rummel because he was doing research into the number of people killed by the Soviet Union and the word 'genocide' was too limiting because it didn't describe religious and political groups that were being systematically exterminated as well.

In fact, when the United Nations was legislating up the definition of the word genocide, the USSR fought very hard to preclude political and religious groups from it.
 
2002-12-31 05:56:00 AM  
Rei got a site submited. Go her.
 
2002-12-31 05:58:52 AM  
But surely that definition would fit any war, the planned one on Iraq would be a prime example.
 
2002-12-31 06:01:38 AM  
Wartime atrocities are included in the numbers, but casualties from war itself generally are not counted as democide, although it depends on the individual as democide has a very loose definition.
 
2002-12-31 06:03:04 AM  
The right always counts soviet war casualties as "victims of Stalin"

Weirdly enough US WW2 casualties are rarely known as victims of FDR, but there you go.
 
2002-12-31 06:05:24 AM  
They weren't victims, that budding socialist had enough victims. He didn't need to pad his numbers.
 
2002-12-31 06:09:37 AM  
Which Soviet war are you referring to? The USSR has been in many conflicts during its history. If you are referring to WW2 then the majority of Soviet losses were the result of Nazi aggression and not murder by their own government. Rudolph J. Rummel (the man who has done the most definitive study on democide by the Soviet Union, wrote several books about the subject, and the most oft quoted researcher by rightists) does not include Nazi atrocities as victims of Soviet democide.
 
2002-12-31 06:19:13 AM  
I wonder if anyonme could ever calculate the victims of capitalism.

Probably too many to ever count.
 
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