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(BBC)   Congress has reached an agreement regarding the outline of the bailout deal. If you live in the US and pay taxes, grab your ankles   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 1002
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15084 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2008 at 1:43 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-09-25 02:52:31 PM
Altourus: Look how long it took to blame Clinton

The insane ability of that man to continually affect our lives for the worse is indeed frightening!
 
2008-09-25 02:52:43 PM
OK, so let's see if I understand this.

George Bush, a right wing republican, has proposed the spectacularly socialist solution of spending the better part of 1 trillion dollars of your money to fix a failure in the banking system caused by the capitalist notion of unregulated banking.

Perhaps if he'd had the balls to be just a little bit less right wing in the first place and pulled these bastards out of the pork trough long enough to slip a leash on them, you all wouldn't be paying for this out of your ass.

There is a lesson here, folks.

A little bit of middle gound socialism (i.e. regularion, interference, call it what you will) prevents an assload of sociallism (700 billion dollars. billion.) being rammed down your throaths without any debate or vote on your part.
 
2008-09-25 02:52:45 PM
I LOVE how people on Fark are all...

"Oh I called my congressman all day"
"Don't forget to call and make your voices heard!"

Folks...They don't care...They don't care what you have to say. They won't listen, your tiny voice has no say whatsoever unless you have cash to back it up.

Give it up, and stop wasting your time calling people who don't give a shiat.
 
2008-09-25 02:53:00 PM
studebaker hoch: Your $425,000? That's over three orders of magnitude too high.

Holy crap

You're like an hour late to the party. Everyone has gone home, the only thing left is some Mike's hard lemonade and it's warm. Ohh, and the fat chick in the corner is really desperate so maybe you have a chance
 
2008-09-25 02:53:11 PM
Seriously, with a trillion dollars you could do a million chicks at the same time.

This is a million millions, most of us; if we're lucky, will have a couple million in net worth by the time we retire.

I think we get to have a couple insurances if this plan doesn't work, like a national lottery to be the one to pull the level on the public hangings of the financial leadership.
 
2008-09-25 02:53:45 PM
jonewer: Yes, You have to bail out the banks or the world will end!

Just like you tea-chuckers had to send your troops to Iraq ro stop that nasty Sadam Hussain from attackin' yer WTCs with newkewlar bams!

Shiat, us Brits arent exactly genius-saints either, but the degree of stupidity and incompetence shown by your ruling class boggles the mind.

Have our illegitimate colony offspring really sunk so low?


2/10 CCTV camera's
 
2008-09-25 02:53:55 PM
deltabourne: Degree Absolute: If you work at Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley please do us all a favor and hurl yourself from the highest ledge you can find. It is what is best for America both in the short and long terms.

Yeah, it's those damn two companies that caused Americans to over leverage themselves by trillions of dollars. The poor workin' man had nothing to do with it, nope.

/DAMN BANKERS! How dare we bail out those fat cats with our taxes?! Everybody knows rich people don't pay the largest percentage of taxes relative to the population! It's true, I read it on Obamarama.com


They should have diversified their shiat, son. That is like financial planning 101. They over-exposed themselves and I am paying for it. I made sound investments and smart decisions with my nest egg, yet I am going to suffer for their stupidity. How you can excuse this shiat is beyond me unless you are a direct beneficiary.

As you are probably a direct beneficiary I won't parse my words. Go fark yourself you slimy, pickpocketing scumbag. You and your ilk are the dregs of humanity, rewriting the rules when it suits you. Die of ball cancer.
 
2008-09-25 02:53:56 PM
There were other alternatives being suggested that would have avoided handing out billions of dollars to banks to get rid of their worthless paper. The only reason they're going with a modified Bush Bailout Bill is because they were panicked into it by Bernanke and Paulson and Bush.

I've already contacted my elected officials and pointed out that public sentiment is strongly opposed to approving this bill as it was proposed. If the compromise bill isn't much different, Senator Dole will be hearing from the public in November (she's the only one up for election this year).
 
2008-09-25 02:54:07 PM
Bitter Coffee: Your upper class got a bailout, America... what about help for the lower classes?

You really don't understand the extent of the problem do you?
 
2008-09-25 02:54:15 PM
Jamespoon: bustemup: it boggles my mind how so many people here have such strong opinions on the bail-out when they clearly don't understand any of the economics behind the situation.

The government isn't proposing to give $700 B to banks, they are proposing to buy $700 B worth of mortgages and mortgage backed securities that have vastly depreciated in value. They are buying these at a fraction of their real "value" because there is no market for them currently. The depreciation of them stems from the overbuying of unhedged CDS. The banks have lost the ability to wait for these securities to inflate back to a value more representive of thier underlying cashflows.

in all likelihood, the government will make a lot of money off of this "investment".

/works on wallstreet
// made some cash off CDS last year so is really getting a kick....yada yada

Thank you. It seems like practically everyone in this thread is missing this point. The 12 digit number is not a price tag.


The government is buying 700 billion dollars worth of loans that weren't payed off before. What makes you think that these people will pay them off now? We'll be buying super risky debt, and odds on, we won't see a dime of that money back.

If there was a chance to make a profit in this, private companies and investors would be buying it. You wouldn't need the bailout, because someone would want the debt. No one does, that's why the feds have to buy it.
 
2008-09-25 02:54:16 PM
If we must talk money, I'd like to point out that while I don't know the details very well, it's my understanding that this is what is happening to your local bank: They invested heavily in the preferred stock of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and are now seeing heavy/total losses in their investments. Bank regulations prohibit them from writing off investment losses against regular income, so they get a double whammy.

Keep that in mind, fwiw.
 
2008-09-25 02:54:20 PM
fighter_of_the_nightman: bustemup: it boggles my mind how so many people here have such strong opinions on the bail-out when they clearly don't understand any of the economics behind the situation.

The government isn't proposing to give $700 B to banks, they are proposing to buy $700 B worth of mortgages and mortgage backed securities that have vastly depreciated in value. They are buying these at a fraction of their real "value" because there is no market for them currently. The depreciation of them stems from the overbuying of unhedged CDS. The banks have lost the ability to wait for these securities to inflate back to a value more representive of thier underlying cashflows.

in all likelihood, the government will make a lot of money off of this "investment".

/works on wallstreet
// made some cash off CDS last year so is really getting a kick....yada yada

exactly how do you know your bolded statement is true?


The paradox of deleveraging.
 
2008-09-25 02:54:23 PM
altinos: bustemup: in all likelihood, the government will make a lot of money off of this "investment".

/works on wallstreet

And there's your motivation for supporting it.


I don't work for any of the banks in question. The company I work for now doesn't deal in credit or mortgages, so I'm in no real danger of it failing. I rent, have no debt, and am not planning on buying soon... hence I gain 0 direct benefit from this plan. I am for it because it makes economic sense. it reduces the bad risk the banks have on the books right now, and liquidates their capital to lend out to people again.

the whole thing boils down to a transfer of illiquid assets from banks (who need the liquidity) to an entity that doesn't need to be as liquid.

To reiterate.. the government is not GIVING any money to any one or any institution.
 
2008-09-25 02:54:27 PM
Bonkthat_Again: que.guero: Real change is needed here and it's not the kind that comes from replacing a Republican president with a Democrat.

THIS.

REAL CHANGE:
1) Term Limits and Run0off voting
2) Absolutely positively NO FINANCIAL LOBBYING from ANY group, association, company, corporation, or business.
3) No voting on any law where the lawmaker has any financial interest in the outcome, either directly or indirectly.
4) No government-backed company is allowed to have private investors...ever.


The last three are almost impossible to enforce, but #1 will go a long way to fixing our political system. It will never be enacted; it requires the legislature to regulate itself.

Too bad we have have constitutional amendments by voter referendum.
 
2008-09-25 02:55:08 PM
US 'agrees Wall Street bail-out'

"Agree" is not a transitive verb.
 
2008-09-25 02:55:14 PM
er, can't have constitutional amendments
 
2008-09-25 02:55:27 PM
Sliding Carp: Who are you going to believe? Your lying eyes, or pundits on TV?

Maybe I'm not seeing the 221 loan inquiries that just went through.....

/server monkey
 
2008-09-25 02:55:36 PM
i301.photobucket.com">
 
2008-09-25 02:56:13 PM
barjockey: Cheese Weasel, at this point, looks far less like a douche than the last 60 people to point out his failure at math. Please continue pretending like you are the first one to point out that his math sucks.

Shut up barjockey, you cock.

If only I were cool enough to have my own meme... *sigh*
 
2008-09-25 02:56:38 PM
barjockey: edhen72: this has probably already been said - but now that the problem is 'resolved' - what excuse will McCain use to not participate in the great debate tomorrow?

Do you really think McCain is "scared" to debate Obama? Seriously?

The guy got butt-farked with a rusty rake by a slant with bad breath living in a farking sewer for like 5 years!

But debates... dear God... not debates!


He's not scared of debating. He's scared of losing the election.

/but you already knew that
 
2008-09-25 02:57:05 PM
Adman12: Wow... that's a lot of money. I guess you guys can come up and crash on Canada's couch or something. Bring your own beer, though, okay?

Why would Canada want us to bring American beer?
 
2008-09-25 02:57:18 PM
scalpod: barjockey: Cheese Weasel, at this point, looks far less like a douche than the last 60 people to point out his failure at math. Please continue pretending like you are the first one to point out that his math sucks.

Shut up barjockey, you cock.

If only I were cool enough to have my own meme... *sigh*


There can be only one...
 
2008-09-25 02:58:00 PM
VideSupra: The United States Senate has a higher retention rate than the Soviet Union's Politburo. Wake up America. VOTE THEM OUT!

ummm
we did, at least some of them
or did you miss the 2006 election ??

and for all the "but the new congress didnt do anything" crowd, sry it is taking so long to fix the farking mess the GOP has made of things

/sigh
 
2008-09-25 02:58:46 PM
Gwendolyn: Shilar: Connector_connection: DVD: If it stops the "Greater Depression" from taking hold...

Oh stop.. I'm sorry but a private business made a bad decision. I say let them tank.. If the US economy tanks too then learn your lesson and change the problem.

Problem is the things tanking aren't just in the US. I'm sure you heard about all the South Koreans lining up to check to make sure their AIG policies were ok?

Where does AIG claim isn't head quarters in for tax purposes? (I'm just curious) Is it like usual and it's some tax shelter place so it can say fark you to the American people?


It's not their headquarters, but AIG has business in other countries. If they fail, you'll have ten times more hate for the USA when their economy hits recession.
 
2008-09-25 02:59:37 PM
The ME Texan Bail out Plan:(r)

If the bail out is to preserve market / financial liquidity then this will work as well:

1) Give the money to people that invested money in their retirements, 401k's and other financial instruments that have lost value since the housing bubble. Rationale: These people arent going to go out and blow the money because they've already been saving for their retirment. They will re-invest in their retirement.

2) These individuals provide liquidity to the institutions they trust by purchasing T-bills and Certificates of deposit or even stocks and bonds that are solid.

3) Banks have liquidity to lend as a result

4) Americans have faith that their leaders are looking after the people that provide money for our economy to work.

5) Recovery and Reform of the government and financial institutions

6) Big time jail for everyone down to the management levels that designed and/or made the decisions to go forward with these idiotic financial instruments.
 
2008-09-25 02:59:38 PM
savage henry: mdkill: This is a non-story.

Yeah, you skipped this:
Dem's playing major politics with the livelyhoods of the American people.

Surprised you missed it. From 'strong fundamentals' to 'people's livelyhoods' in what, a week?


No, I just picked that post to reply to because part of it was factually accurate and I hadn't seen anyone else raise the fact that there is no plan yet. I don't even see quotes from any dem congressmen saying that this is a "plan" and not just "a fundamental agreement on a set of principles".

The media is just putting whatever headline they want on this so that we keep watching TV or refreshing our web browsers. The more dramatic they make this already dramatic situation sound, the more ad revenue for them.
 
2008-09-25 02:59:45 PM
busy chillin': Say the math is wrong again. Say the math is wrong again, motherfarker, say the math is wrong one more Goddamn time!

img401.imageshack.us
 
2008-09-25 02:59:46 PM
Lawnchair: Lt. Cheese Weasel: So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

Except for the fact that it doesn't. But, I'm sure someone on Wall Street would appreciate your creative math skills.



Brewski: Lt. Cheese Weasel: So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.


You may want to check your maths...


cchris_39: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a Weasel Says We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide adults in the U.S. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

85,000,000,000 divided by 200,000,000 = $425.

Not $425,000




Brewski: cchris_39: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a Weasel Says We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide adults in the U.S. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

85,000,000,000 divided by 200,000,000 = $425.

Not $425,000

Thank you, I was scared I was the only one who could do division!




Firemarshalbill: This is one of the most dumb chain mails. Simple math people, simple math!

$400,000 != $400




Galactica Actual:

Nice try, but you divided into 85 TRILLION. In actuality, it would be more like $425. Not $425,000.




Delay: Lawnchair: Lt. Cheese Weasel: So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

Except for the fact that it doesn't. But, I'm sure someone on Wall Street would appreciate your creative math skills.

Yup. What's three orders of magnitude? I still enjoy the Wall Street graphs where the y axis goes from 5,500 to 5,550 and the lines look everyone gets rich in four days.



Ant: Brewski: Lt. Cheese Weasel: So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.


You may want to check your maths...

Nevermind Cheese Weasel. $425 is not enough to buy my vote.

85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = ???


poot_rootbeer: Lt. Cheese Weasel: So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

Your arithmetic error. Let me show you it.




mcsestretch: cchris_39: 85,000,000,000 divided by 200,000,000 = $425.

Not $425,000

Thank you. I was just thinking, "Wait a minute..."


rhavenn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a Weasel Says We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide adults in the U.S. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.


Check your math. 85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425 dollars


I'm not quite clear on the arithmetic, could someone enlighten me?
 
2008-09-25 02:59:48 PM
i301.photobucket.com

Holy shat is this image real? What's that from?
 
2008-09-25 02:59:54 PM
TypoFlyspray: bustemup: The government isn't proposing to give $700 B to banks, they are proposing to buy $700 B worth of mortgages and mortgage backed securities that have vastly depreciated in value. They are buying these at a fraction of their real "value" because there is no market for them currently. The depreciation of them stems from the overbuying of unhedged CDS. The banks have lost the ability to wait for these securities to inflate back to a value more representive of thier underlying cashflows.

in all likelihood, the government will make a lot of money off of this "investment".

Now you stop that. We're busy having a tizzy here, and you can't pur the cold water of reason over us and not get Wharrrgarbled.

Actually, I agree with you, mostly, but as with all things bush related, the devil is in the details. Hasn't Paulson been talking about paying over market value for these debts? I understand his argument, that by paying more he will stimulate and stabilize the market, but I think it's a bulshytt way of going about it. I understand that these debts can be had (at least Merril's were) for around 20 cents on the dollar, and they may realize over 50 cents when mature. That's fine by me. I'd be willing to kick in as much as 40 cents. When Paulson starts talking a buck ten, I get all stabby.


I think you're confusing paying over market value and paying over face value. Although none of us has seen the plan language yet, paying $1.10 would be paying over face value and waaay over market value...
 
2008-09-25 03:00:20 PM
EsteeFlwrPot: Fark_Guy_Rob: Hi everyone...

My name is Rob. I'm a responsible guy. I don't buy shiat I can't pay for. I didn't get a girl knocked up when I was 16; I plan on being a responsible parent. I went to college and studied hard...I graduated and got a really good job. I even pay for my own health insurance and am investing heavily into my own retirement funds because the scam of a system you old people flock to is going to be bankrupt and have done nothing but steal my money....

That means I make really good $$$ and have no deductions.


What were you thinking, doing the right thing all this time? Don't you know that's an invitation to a hard farking right up the old bung hole.
 
2008-09-25 03:00:31 PM
FoxKelfonne: Adman12: Wow... that's a lot of money. I guess you guys can come up and crash on Canada's couch or something. Bring your own beer, though, okay?

Why would Canada want us to bring American beer?


www.boston.com Would like a word with you..... :)
 
2008-09-25 03:00:45 PM
src="http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5118/mccainbushty8.jpg" width="515" height="343">
<b>Three more months and GWB is out of here.</b>

.....but the stench will linger for a long time after.
 
2008-09-25 03:00:48 PM
I wrote to both of my Senators. Here is one of them.

____________________________________________________

Senator Allard,

I am writing to you today as a concerned citizen of the Great State of Colorado.

The reason I am concerned is due to the recent news of a Wall Street bailout. Mr. Senator, this is just not right. Why are we American taxpayers supporting failed businesses and business practices?

Also Mr. Senator, we have been told that even a $700 Billion bailout might not work. Are you truly ready to gamble the well-being, and potentially, very lives, of Americans? I think it is a gamble we cannot afford to make.

I hope you sincerely think about how you will cast your vote on this issue. More then ever, the eyes of the American public are careful watching our representatives in Washington.

God Speed Mr. Senator,

-G. S.
 
2008-09-25 03:00:51 PM
namatad: VideSupra: The United States Senate has a higher retention rate than the Soviet Union's Politburo. Wake up America. VOTE THEM OUT!

ummm
we did, at least some of them
or did you miss the 2006 election ??

and for all the "but the new congress didnt do anything" crowd, sry it is taking so long to fix the farking mess the GOP has made of things

/sigh


Fair. It dropped from 96% to 79%. Still too high.

Still 25% higher than our lowest retention rate ever in '80.

www.opensecrets.org
 
2008-09-25 03:01:20 PM
edhen72:
this has probably already been said - but now that the problem is 'resolved' - what excuse will McCain use to not participate in the great debate tomorrow?

lipstick Friday
 
2008-09-25 03:01:29 PM
Cauchy_Riemann_equations: Hi Rob. My marginal tax rate is 41%. Like you I have no deductions and I was priced out of the home market in 2005.

that's unpossible!!
you are just want to buy a house somewhere you can not aford to live
sheeshhhhh wake up and buy a smaller house, move or shutthefarkup
 
2008-09-25 03:01:29 PM
libbynomore2: Obama was given well over 100K from the corrupt Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who stole money from tax payers and provided loans to people they KNEW didn't have the money to pay them back.

No, it was more like $16K

Doesn't make it right, but then again, he still won't man up and say that these companies, while they are huge, need to fail.
 
2008-09-25 03:01:30 PM
devildog123: If there was a chance to make a profit in this, private companies and investors would be buying it. You wouldn't need the bailout, because someone would want the debt. No one does, that's why the feds have to buy it.

They weren't buying because they don't have the assets since everyone's been selling at the same time. The 700 bill injection is meant to stabilize the price of these assets (i.e. mortgage backed securities) back to their real value because the banks clearly cannot do it alone. If this doesn't happen then it further becomes a vacuum.
 
2008-09-25 03:01:51 PM
This is what you get for voting for Republicans.

This is what you get for voting for Democrats.
 
2008-09-25 03:02:07 PM
devildog123: Jamespoon: bustemup: it boggles my mind how so many people here have such strong opinions on the bail-out when they clearly don't understand any of the economics behind the situation.

The government isn't proposing to give $700 B to banks, they are proposing to buy $700 B worth of mortgages and mortgage backed securities that have vastly depreciated in value. They are buying these at a fraction of their real "value" because there is no market for them currently. The depreciation of them stems from the overbuying of unhedged CDS. The banks have lost the ability to wait for these securities to inflate back to a value more representive of thier underlying cashflows.

in all likelihood, the government will make a lot of money off of this "investment".

/works on wallstreet
// made some cash off CDS last year so is really getting a kick....yada yada

Thank you. It seems like practically everyone in this thread is missing this point. The 12 digit number is not a price tag.

The government is buying 700 billion dollars worth of loans that weren't payed off before. What makes you think that these people will pay them off now? We'll be buying super risky debt, and odds on, we won't see a dime of that money back.

If there was a chance to make a profit in this, private companies and investors would be buying it. You wouldn't need the bailout, because someone would want the debt. No one does, that's why the feds have to buy it.




ThisThisThisThisThisThis
 
2008-09-25 03:02:12 PM
11of12: What were you thinking, doing the right thing all this time? Don't you know that's an invitation to a hard farking right up the old bung hole.

Thats not my post but thanks.
 
2008-09-25 03:02:14 PM
Drakin020: I LOVE how people on Fark are all...

"Oh I called my congressman all day"
"Don't forget to call and make your voices heard!"

Folks...They don't care...They don't care what you have to say. They won't listen, your tiny voice has no say whatsoever unless you have cash to back it up.

Give it up, and stop wasting your time calling people who don't give a shiat.


Never let it be said that we did nothing while we've still got the chance. And you better believe they'll care when we hit the streets come election time loudly opposed to their reelection efforts.
 
2008-09-25 03:02:20 PM
Congress has reached an agreement regarding the outline of the bailout deal. If you live in the US and pay taxes own US currency, grab your ankles

Silly submitter. You think Congress is going to use tax money to pay for this? That would require cutting spending significantly AND raising taxes. They don't have the balls to do that. They'll just create the money and destroy the dollar.
 
2008-09-25 03:02:37 PM
que.guero: WaltzingMathilda


I can't imagine why you'd want to live a life thinking that no problem can be fixed and looking at every problem through a doomsday lens. Cynicism is rough way of life.

To answer your question, YES. Why? This bill won't pass without OVERSIGHT (the opposite of the deregulation the lovely 20 years of GOP rule pushed through) and without US EQUITY in the firms ... i.e., the dingo is partially being replaced with the US as a stakeholder.

Yes, I believe these things. It's not a "here's 700B please act and good faith and fix things." It's a "here's 700B but you will follow these rules and report to us."

Actually, Mathilda, even problems of this magnitude can be solved. They *can't* be solved by doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. Why are you so keen on allowing things to only get worse?

There is much fail in this - Government, financial institutions, individuals. All party to probably the biggest looting of a nation in the history of the world.

Is it cynical to suggest that even if this bailout happens, that any "equity" gained in these failed firms will at best be worthless and if not, will not find its way to the benefit of the US taxpayer?

If only there were some sort of precedent where the government made a promise that was later found to be false...


You're putting no faith in the probability of what are considered "bad mortgages" being slightly written down and eventually paid to a profit on the whole bill. Certainly, if wall street and certain leaders stuff their pockets and run away screaming "haha, suckers" then yes, total failure. But I somehow don't think 100 senators and 500+ representatives are going to pull that stunt.
 
2008-09-25 03:02:47 PM
clambot: Another Pretentious Nickname wrote,

"The taxpayer is likely to make a profit on AIG, and depending on the final structure could very well do so on this larger deal as well."

Brought to you by the Department of Pure Speculation and Pulling Numbers Out of My Ass to Support the Biggest Swindle in Recorded History.


Brought to you by the Department of Willful Ignorance and Outrage Mongering. Please, go ahead and claim to understand the economics of the AIG deal. Please. It will amuse me.
 
2008-09-25 03:02:51 PM
libbynomore2: wmoonfox [TotalFark]

There's absolutely no incentive for these institutions to fix the problem if they know they can rely on the government's fat wallet to cushion the blow of bad decisions.

I agree with you....BUT, let's not just stop at institutions. Let's include those dumbass students who spend their days in the back of the class not paying attention, or out in the field smoking dope. Let's not exclude those dumbasses who refused to learn and prepare themselves for good paying jobs and then expect the rest of us who learn hard and work hard to support their pitiful lazy asses. Oh, and NO ONE who actually pays taxes should forgive those assholes who lied on mortgage applications to obtain loans they could NEVER afford to pay back. After all, they are equally responsible as those mortgage brokers for the mess we are in.


Hey, one set of dumbasses at a time. You're close to crossing the border into Logical Falacyland. When the government gets to bailing out the rest of the dumbasses, we can discuss and rail against that. Until then, it adds nothing to the discussion at hand.

/sticking your "BUT" out...
 
2008-09-25 03:02:56 PM
Gobobo: I'm not quite clear on the arithmetic, could someone enlighten me?

we have a WINNER
 
2008-09-25 03:03:03 PM
I started keeping track of this thing, but have since bowed out - it's a money grab on all sides.

The deciding issue for me was the situation at the beginning of the week. Democrat's wanted to include an extension for unemployment benefits that are about to expire for tens of thousands of American workers. The white house flat out promised a veto if such legislation were included. So the Democrats folded. Fark them both.

I expected as much from the "conservatives" - literally laying the two groups who need help side-by-side they screamed for billions of dollars for largest corporations in the country and in same breath said they would vehemently oppose any help for the middle-class people who were suffering at the same time. Folks - this is why you have the reputation that you have - there cannot be a more clear-cut example of corporation vs. middle-class side choosing.

The Dem's on the other hand can eat a burrito out of may ass for immediately dropping the fight. Granted, they would be labeled complacent in the face of a crisis if they didn't give the republicans everything they asked for and smiled while they did it (see: Patriot Act, 2001) as well as being blamed for the "inaction" that let the whole country slide into recession (as if that's going to happen anyway) - but at least they would show they had the stones to fight for the people that they are stereotyped for supporting. Now - they all look the same to me and I can't see myself punching a chad for either of the worthless bastards.

/not unemployed
//but have been
///and would have lost everything without the help
 
2008-09-25 03:03:44 PM
bustemup: the whole thing boils down to a transfer of illiquid assets from banks (who need the liquidity) to an entity that doesn't need to be as liquid.

To reiterate.. the government is not GIVING any money to any one or any institution.


Shh.... There ya go injecting some educated and reasoned thought into the thread. Fark you!
 
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