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(BBC)   Congress has reached an agreement regarding the outline of the bailout deal. If you live in the US and pay taxes, grab your ankles   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 1002
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15085 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2008 at 1:43 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-09-25 02:34:06 PM  
WaltzingMathilda

they're working on making sure the US gets equity status in these firms and that CEO pay is limited. hindsight about the cause, yes everyone should be angry. quickly fixing it to avoid complete and total meltdown (i.e., making your education worthless in a breadline) should not make people so angry when it's not the "bailout" they think it is.

Well, since that whole "The oil revenue will pay for the Iraq war..." thing worked out so well then sure, we can't afford NOT to do this bailout!

Do you HONESTLY believe that anything will change when the Federal government gives SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS to the people who caused this problem?

Let me put it to you this way, if a dingo eats your baby do you give him two more and hope for the best?
 
2008-09-25 02:34:12 PM  
aninconvenienterection: why, are my ankles part of the bailout?

My feelings exactly.

A. I did NOT enter in to a "if it sounds too good to be true loan it probably is" loan

B. I did not make any comissions selling these loans to "home owners" who would not have been approved for these loans if proper procedure had been followed.

C. I am not a CEO of a now defunct finance company who received a Golden Parachute while most of my minions are unemployed (Fannie, Freddie, Lehman Brothers etc.)

D. Too little too late, just now these company's are being investigated? And it probably goes higher up than just these company's. I am sure our current yokels in the house also have their dirty mits in this.

The whole thing stinks!
 
2008-09-25 02:34:16 PM  
I'll say again: any country that houses any foreign banks that get bailed out in this should have the appropriate cut removed from our tab/added to theirs. Why are other countries not assisting in bailing out their own stinking banks?
 
2008-09-25 02:34:23 PM  
libbynomore2: I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Care to explain?


You are parroting Rush Limbaugh's words.

If you don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, then that means you think the same way Rush Limbaugh does.

Which means that you are dumb.
 
2008-09-25 02:34:39 PM  
Hey Cheese Weasel ... just wanted to let you know your math is a little off.
 
2008-09-25 02:34:49 PM  
Your upper class got a bailout, America... what about help for the lower classes?

i207.photobucket.com
 
2008-09-25 02:34:50 PM  
benlonghair: Reggie Dunlap: No. Libertarians would never ask in the first place.

No, the libertarians would laugh at the banking industry and say "good luck, you're on your own, just like you've always been, because we want nothing to do with you. Succeed or fail on your own, thanks."


That's true too. The republicans used to think that way too. Succed or fail on your own.
 
2008-09-25 02:35:22 PM  
This will not impact most of you. Most of us here pay very little taxes compared to wealthy people and corporations. They will shoulder the burden, not you, as always. Quit yer biatchin.
 
2008-09-25 02:35:26 PM  
HOLY shiat! I hate congress!
 
2008-09-25 02:35:28 PM  
que.guero: WaltzingMathilda

Slightly writing down the bad mortgages to keep people in their homes and paying on them as opposed to trying to dump the foreclosures on the market ... I think it will be fairly easy. The companies who caused it lacked foresight, were greedy, and simply would not write down the loans ... plus they all collapsed at once. It will take time to write them down, but this temporary injection will keep the rest of the economy from tanking in the meantime.

No, no it won't. This bailout will do fark-all to prevent economic collapse for the average American. If you are in danger of losing your house now, you will still lose it after this bailout happens. This is not a bailout for anyone but the people who OWN YOU.

This will allow corporations to continue business as usual and gives government even more power outside the realm of checks and balances and sticks each and every average American with the bill.


THIS

There's absolutely no incentive for these institutions to fix the problem if they know they can rely on the government's fat wallet to cushion the blow of bad decisions. With new capital to delay their eventual collapse, they will continue farking you in the ass for as long as they are able. They will not submit to demands that they rewrite thousands of contracts to provide better terms to the people they just screwed front and back... they'll take your tax money and then rape you on the upside of your ARM, jumping ship with all the profit in six months when we're right back where we are now.
 
2008-09-25 02:35:59 PM  
bustemup: it boggles my mind how so many people here have such strong opinions on the bail-out when they clearly don't understand any of the economics behind the situation.

The government isn't proposing to give $700 B to banks, they are proposing to buy $700 B worth of mortgages and mortgage backed securities that have vastly depreciated in value. They are buying these at a fraction of their real "value" because there is no market for them currently. The depreciation of them stems from the overbuying of unhedged CDS. The banks have lost the ability to wait for these securities to inflate back to a value more representive of thier underlying cashflows.

in all likelihood, the government will make a lot of money off of this "investment".

/works on wallstreet
// made some cash off CDS last year so is really getting a kick....yada yada


Thank you. It seems like practically everyone in this thread is missing this point. The 12 digit number is not a price tag.
 
2008-09-25 02:36:28 PM  
Jamespoon Wow dude, where are you even getting your info from? Link me to whatever site it is, I want to see how all these connections are being made.

QFT

hershmire: Atypical Person Reading Fark: BTW - all of you reading this thread should really go read the really scary thread in the politics section - the one discussing this bit of language in the bill (which is historic language, for a Congressional Bill):

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
 
2008-09-25 02:36:43 PM  
This is bullshiat.

Uncle Sam, you're dead to me.
 
2008-09-25 02:36:44 PM  
Samsaran: The difference between 1929 and 2008 is that we understand the need for Government to step in to stabilize the financial markets. The money is not just going into the fire place it will have tangible benefits for the nation and the world. Ultimately, the money goes to people. The corporations are made up of people. You guys fail to understand this. Now, we need to make sure there is oversight so that the top management of these failed companies do not misuse the funds or line their pockets.

People here are both overly alarmist, overly pessimistic and overly short sighted.


Do you not see how dangerous a precedent this is? We are effectively telling Wall Street managers that they need not be concerned with the consequences of their poor business decisions. "You want to approve a $500,000 mortgage to a guy who works a part-time job at Taco Bell? Go for it! If it doesn't work out, we'll just throw taxpayer dollars at it!"

If we do not allow the banks to fail, Wall Street will have learned nothing. They'll just continue with their cavalier business practices knowing that they have a multi-trillion dollar insurance policy backing them up if they screw up.

A good parent will let their children fail for the learning experience it brings. The government in this case is behaving as an irresponsible parent.
 
2008-09-25 02:36:47 PM  
Lt. Cheese Weasel: I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a Weasel Says We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide adults in the U.S. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.


Check your math. 85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425 dollars
 
2008-09-25 02:37:05 PM  
Dear Boomers,

When the winters comes, I vote to eat you first.


Actually I called and wrote to all my congress people today. One of my letters:

I wrote to you several days ago regarding the bailout and why I am against it.

I see now that despite the misgivings of the people you're in office to actually represent you're going forward with it, because -- well the Bankers (the people who actually got us into this mess) say it's the only way.

I want to be very clear: I will not vote for anyone who votes for this bill. Nor will my husband, my sister or any of our friends. You will be shocked by the level of anger in the community over this bailout of Wall St.

Where is this money coming from? It isn't coming directly out of the budget this year -- it's coming out of the future, out of schools and bridges and roads. It means higher taxes. It means I will have less money in my pocket to enjoy life so people on Wall St can have a really awesome one (private jets and models, when all I have is an easy chair and a poodle).

I deeply resent this, I resent you and people like you who spend our money with no thought for the future; and I hope to make you pay by voting you out of office if you vote for this bill.

I eagerly look forward to your form letter, saying how you voted for this bill and that it's "good" for the American people.
 
2008-09-25 02:37:15 PM  
LosinMySenses: BOHIC

In America, it's BOHICA. (A=again)
 
2008-09-25 02:37:15 PM  
Gwendolyn [TotalFark] Quote 2008-09-25 02:31:17 PM
Can we see the campaign contributions list?

CNN just said Dodd was given $100,000 for the companies in the bail out.


Obama was given well over 100K from the corrupt Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who stole money from tax payers and provided loans to people they KNEW didn't have the money to pay them back.

No wonder Obama was too afraid to go back to DC and do his job, and take a stand on this.

Any FBI investigation of Fannie, Freddie AIG and others should include the names of those politicians who took money, how much money they received and how they voted on their behalf.

RIGHT Obamaniacs?
 
2008-09-25 02:37:42 PM  
Bloody William: I really hope this bailout has a LOT of oversight and isn't the $700 billion no-strings-attached check that Bush wanted.

But either way, I'm amused that McCain basically just lost a massive game of political chicken.


I understand there are a few strings:

-banks must say "thank you"
-they have to spend it all before they can ask for more
-they can only use 30% of it for political contributions
-if spent on monuments/statues of the CEOs these cannot exceed 100 feet in height
 
2008-09-25 02:37:47 PM  
Thunderpipes: This will not impact most of you. Most of us here pay very little taxes compared to wealthy people and corporations. They will shoulder the burden, not you, as always. Quit yer biatchin.

Exactly. Now can't we get a decent thread about pussy, tits and beer? All this economic jibber jabber is killing my buzz.
 
2008-09-25 02:38:31 PM  
ez2plezy: Maybe we need a zombie war...

Or a zombie high.
 
2008-09-25 02:38:36 PM  
rhavenn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a Weasel Says We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide adults in the U.S. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.


Check your math. 85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425 dollars


Just have everyone give back that lame 'stimulus' check and we can pay cash for the bail out.. then give everyone an equivalent about of AIG stock..
 
2008-09-25 02:38:43 PM  
TRUBored: I wish congress would EABOD and DIAF

/it is our duty to make it happen.


never reelect anyone.
 
2008-09-25 02:39:03 PM  
boobsrgood: The poor get poorer, which is a good thing, because they will still go to Wal-Mart.

Wal-Winwin.


FTFY
 
2008-09-25 02:39:08 PM  
The Pho King: I actually bought a house within my means, and chose a fixed interest rate to prepare for the long term. What do I get?

inflation
 
2008-09-25 02:39:12 PM  
que.guero: WaltzingMathilda

they're working on making sure the US gets equity status in these firms and that CEO pay is limited. hindsight about the cause, yes everyone should be angry. quickly fixing it to avoid complete and total meltdown (i.e., making your education worthless in a breadline) should not make people so angry when it's not the "bailout" they think it is.

Well, since that whole "The oil revenue will pay for the Iraq war..." thing worked out so well then sure, we can't afford NOT to do this bailout!

Do you HONESTLY believe that anything will change when the Federal government gives SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS to the people who caused this problem?

Let me put it to you this way, if a dingo eats your baby do you give him two more and hope for the best?


I can't imagine why you'd want to live a life thinking that no problem can be fixed and looking at every problem through a doomsday lens. Cynicism is rough way of life.

To answer your question, YES. Why? This bill won't pass without OVERSIGHT (the opposite of the deregulation the lovely 20 years of GOP rule pushed through) and without US EQUITY in the firms ... i.e., the dingo is partially being replaced with the US as a stakeholder.

Yes, I believe these things. It's not a "here's 700B please act and good faith and fix things." It's a "here's 700B but you will follow these rules and report to us."
 
2008-09-25 02:39:24 PM  
PeriRies: Exactly. Now can't we get a decent thread about pussy, tits and beer? All this economic jibber jabber is killing my buzz.

MMMMM Titties and beer...........
 
2008-09-25 02:39:40 PM  
The United States Senate has a higher retention rate than the Soviet Union's Politburo. Wake up America. VOTE THEM OUT!
 
2008-09-25 02:39:55 PM  
For those interested, the House of Representatives website has been FARKed.

I managed to get through to my Senator, but the House website is not responding.
 
2008-09-25 02:39:57 PM  
madcan34: Details of the package were not immediately available but it is expected to include limits on executives' pay...

HOW ABOUT ZERO!!!!

Every executive on every board should be forced to liquidate everything they own, then fork all the cash over toward the debt and then get jobs where they are forced to say "fries with that?" or "Paper or plastic?"


Hey, I came here to say that!!
 
2008-09-25 02:40:07 PM  
Bleak_Outlook: This is bullshiat.

Uncle Sam, you're dead to me.


I hear there are literally hundreds of other countries you can move to.
 
2008-09-25 02:40:11 PM  
WaltzingMathilda: they're working on making sure the US gets equity status in these firms and that CEO pay is limited. hindsight about the cause, yes everyone should be angry. quickly fixing it to avoid complete and total meltdown (i.e., making your education worthless in a breadline) should not make people so angry when it's not the "bailout" they think it is.

Equity status in a worthless corporation that MIGHT have assets that appreciate? fark THAT. If an investor on wall street wouldnt buy it then there is NO reason for the government to buy it on our behalf.

Beyond that, even if these assets do appreciate and return to their speculated values - do you really think the government is going to return the money to the taxpayers they borrowed it from? No.

We should be giving money to the people whose 401ks were demolished by this fiasco. To those individuals who invested in their future through saving money. You want faith in the American system? Bail out the people who worked hard and saved. Those are the people that invest and provide capital for lenders.
 
2008-09-25 02:40:16 PM  
rhavenn: Lt. Cheese Weasel: I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a Weasel Says We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide adults in the U.S. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.


Check your math. 85,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = $425 dollars


Really? No shiat?
 
2008-09-25 02:40:17 PM  
Samsaran: Money is like energy it flows from one place to another. The bailout is not only going to stabilize the financial markets and the economy generally but that money will provide security for investors, jobs and increase demand for goods and services.

I hear it will also cook me a steak and give me a blowjob.
 
2008-09-25 02:40:27 PM  
libbynomore2

CNN just said Dodd was given $100,000 for the companies in the bail out.

Obama was given well over 100K from the corrupt Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who stole money from tax payers and provided loans to people they KNEW didn't have the money to pay them back.

No wonder Obama was too afraid to go back to DC and do his job, and take a stand on this.

Any FBI investigation of Fannie, Freddie AIG and others should include the names of those politicians who took money, how much money they received and how they voted on their behalf.

RIGHT Obamaniacs?


I'll go you one better and state that most likely, BOTH PARTIES were complicit in this disaster.

People like should stop trying to play "my party is better than yours" and realize that no matter who you vote for, the government always wins.

Real change is needed here and it's not the kind that comes from replacing a Republican president with a Democrat.
 
2008-09-25 02:40:30 PM  
bustemup: in all likelihood, the government will make a lot of money off of this "investment".

/works on wallstreet


And there's your motivation for supporting it.
 
2008-09-25 02:40:42 PM  
danielsangeo: jake3988: Either you can lose 10s of thousands in life savings or a couple thousand in taxes to your children, a weaker dollar, and high gas prices.

I'd like neither, but unfortuntaely, that ain't gonna happen. The reality simply won't allow it.

Hopefully we'll regulate everything and people will LEARN.

The government... regulating corporations? THAT'S SOCIALISM!!!one!


No - this is socialism. As JubalHarshaw put it: Privatizing profit, and socializing risk.

The left should be championing this bailout because the slide toward socialism is what you're finally getting. The right doesn't get a pass on this though - for letting it happen. Bad right - bad left.

The architecture of the Capitol building tells us all we need to know:

www.anthem-creative.com
 
2008-09-25 02:40:58 PM  
Bultito: Without a bailout credit lines will freeze and shrink while many banks could collapse.
I say we take about $500B and make it a National Bank that will provide the necessary credit while the taxpayers reap the earnings, the banks had their chance, they literally blew it. Let 'em fail while taxpayers make a killing and responsible managed companies keep their credit.
Just a thought.


I like the cut of your jib.

This is what I thought might evolve from this "bailout" open the fed window to the public at Fed Rate +2% and let the a-holes crater. National banks are the culprits in this. I haven't heard many State banks get burned yet. Let the state banks handle the paper work and open up the window to the public. That SHOULD keep the credit lines open while wall st. walks out onto a collective ledge.
 
2008-09-25 02:40:59 PM  
At least those damn homos arent getting married!



/im so kidding
//just trying to point out how stupid people are for voting on values instead of issues that actually have a direct influence on their lives.
///I love teh gheys
 
2008-09-25 02:41:39 PM  
Hi everyone...

My name is Rob. I'm a responsible guy. I don't buy shiat I can't pay for. I didn't get a girl knocked up when I was 16; I plan on being a responsible parent. I went to college and studied hard...I graduated and got a really good job. I even pay for my own health insurance and am investing heavily into my own retirement funds because the scam of a system you old people flock to is going to be bankrupt and have done nothing but steal my money....

That means I make really good $$$ and have no deductions.

So I'm really getting a kick out of all this talk of taxes and tax burden.

/Enjoys bending over for Uncle Sam and all you deadbeats.
 
2008-09-25 02:41:47 PM  
Telos: Yes, it's good to led thousands of people starve to death and become homeless so that "business learns a lesson."

I don't believe this will happen. Why do you?

The lie oft repeated does not become truth.

house.gov is *very* slow. Sounds like lots of protest e-mails. Good.
 
2008-09-25 02:41:57 PM  
bustemup: it boggles my mind how so many people here have such strong opinions on the bail-out when they clearly don't understand any of the economics behind the situation.

The government isn't proposing to give $700 B to banks, they are proposing to buy $700 B worth of mortgages and mortgage backed securities that have vastly depreciated in value. They are buying these at a fraction of their real "value" because there is no market for them currently. The depreciation of them stems from the overbuying of unhedged CDS. The banks have lost the ability to wait for these securities to inflate back to a value more representive of thier underlying cashflows.


No, you're wrong, regardless of your stature on Wall Street.

The government is proposing giving $700B to the Treasury Secretary, no strings attached, with no oversight or plan for the lump of cash, to be distributed as he sees fit. That is the only thing you, I, and anyone outside of the relevant congressional committees know about the situation, because that is all the information which has been released thus far. We'd like to think that the government has some kind of sensible plan to use the funds to purchase securities that might increase in value, the fact that no financial firm is willing to touch them aside, but we don't know that -- in fact, that's what congress is trying to work out right this minute.
 
2008-09-25 02:41:59 PM  
libbynomore2: Obama was given well over 100K from the corrupt Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,

so what? just because people give money to your campaign does not mean you espouse their ideals or will defend their illegal activity.
 
2008-09-25 02:42:27 PM  
Call your local bankers and ask them if they're still offering loans for construction, cars, remodeling, etc. According to BB&T CEO Allison, there is no panic on Main Street, and there is no credit freeze down here. I see marquees on banks up the road for new auto loans at low low rates.
 
2008-09-25 02:42:34 PM  
que.guero: Jamespoon Wow dude, where are you even getting your info from? Link me to whatever site it is, I want to see how all these connections are being made.

QFT

hershmire: Atypical Person Reading Fark: BTW - all of you reading this thread should really go read the really scary thread in the politics section - the one discussing this bit of language in the bill (which is historic language, for a Congressional Bill):

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.


That thread was 9 posts long. The person who started it was linking to an article dated the 22nd (Monday), the day this whole debate started. He or she probably didn't realize that was part of the debate all week.
 
2008-09-25 02:42:35 PM  
PeriRies: Exactly. Now can't we get a decent thread about pussy, tits and beer? All this economic jibber jabber is killing my buzz.

The cost of pussy, tits, and beer will go up as the value of the dollar declines due to printing money for this bail out.
 
2008-09-25 02:42:44 PM  
libbynomore2: Obama was given well over 100K from the corrupt Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who stole money from tax payers and provided loans to people they KNEW didn't have the money to pay them back.

No wonder Obama was too afraid to go back to DC and do his job, and take a stand on this.

Any FBI investigation of Fannie, Freddie AIG and others should include the names of those politicians who took money, how much money they received and how they voted on their behalf.

RIGHT Obamaniacs?


actually, obama was the one in dc today, while mccain was still in new york giving speeches.
 
2008-09-25 02:42:59 PM  
stjohn: It's really not that difficult to recoup your losses from this. Think about it. With the math corrected based on who's actually paying taxes in this country, you just have to fudge, say (based on an adjusted per-adult quote from earlier) around $700 in deductions for the next 10 years. Anybody can do that and probably get away with it. The 'people who got us into this mess and are screwing us' have been doing it for centuries. Why not give a little back? When you distribute the actual price tag, it's not much, but if you really object to giving them your money, just figure out a way to not do it.

Exactly. It's your duty, as Americans, to cheat on your taxes. The only reason your government stupidly spends billions of dollars every year (not just talking bailout here) is that you GIVE it billions of dollars a year.
 
2008-09-25 02:43:01 PM  
Bari: Let them fail.

If the US economy fails, the entire WORLD economy fails.


There's no proof of that. Please, provide the reasons that this would happen.

The more likely explanation is that is what the architects of the plan want you to think because that way their plan is more easily approved.
 
2008-09-25 02:43:02 PM  
The Pho King: I actually bought a house within my means, and chose a fixed interest rate to prepare for the long term. What do I get?

Frozen wage increases
Higher taxes
A healthy dose of inflation

It's sort of appropriate that when the Bush administration came in they lowered taxes and will leave with the government needing to raise them higher than before.

Regardless of the party, the next president is going to be forced with tax increases to deal with this "magic money" that's being pulled out of our collective taxpayer asses. We're looking at an uncertain economy regardless of how this situation goes down.

The most qualified people to fix this situation are the ones that created it in the first place. Every time the problem was mentioned, it was candy-coated and people were more than happy to accept it as gospel. As a nation, we've been pretty much wringing our hands and looking the other way for the last few years.

The whole capped salary bit is such a rediculous dodge. At the very least, we should be calling for their outright dismissal. Why should anyone keep them in charge?

With such an economic disaster, I'll be interested to see who actually turns a profit in the next few years.
 
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