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(Yahoo)   Ben Stein explains credit-default swaps and how they got us into this mess: "One might well wonder if the whole subprime fiasco was not set up just to allow speculators to profit wildly on its collapse"   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 198
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17511 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Sep 2008 at 6:19 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-09-23 05:03:31 PM
Can we has total market deregulation now, please?
 
2008-09-23 05:09:40 PM
Decent, hard working people are terribly afraid as they see their life savings melt away.

On behalf of all indecent people who try not to work that hard, we're afraid, too.
 
2008-09-23 05:25:55 PM
Gee, you think?
Gotta admire a thing of beauty.
This is the biggest bankheist in history. Bank stole itself.
The "take" is only gone if we pay them off.
The money is gone. Can't be gotten back.
Unless, here is the good part...Unless we pay off the bankers and their politicians. Then we get to keep our piss-poor economy.
Money is still gone.
What if we do not pay up?
Fiancial ruin, zombies in the streets.
And the gone money is no good. Really gone.
No good to the bankers and politicians as well.
The real question is will we give in to the extortion or will we all go down together?

Wilma, get the tinfoil and the shotgun..
 
2008-09-23 05:34:34 PM
Gee Ben, too bad you spent all your credibility on that intelligent design fiasco. I'm afraid anything you have to say from this point on is only a polished turd at best.
 
2008-09-23 05:43:50 PM
We should just switch to a barter economy.
 
2008-09-23 05:45:54 PM
All I know is the Democrats have no intention of rushing this "rescue" through -- and I wouldn't either. You don't let the idiots who lead you down this path try to lead you out. This time last year, Bernanke and Paulson were announcing how the subprime market was going to "work itself out" by the Summer of 2008.

News flash asshats: Smart economists seen this coming from a mile away.... and we didn't do a goddamn thing to stop it. If I was the Democrats, there is no way I'd pass a penny of relief without completely securing every loop hole that allowed it to occur...and without a completely outside group of oversight, made up of the brilliant, selfless economist who are on record saying this was going to happen.

What better people to lead us out of this shiatfest than on the economist's backs who have been fighting against it from day-1.
 
2008-09-23 05:47:40 PM
I don't get it. Seriously.

What is a credit-default swap? An insurance policy on debt, so that you get paid if it tanks?
 
2008-09-23 05:51:27 PM
bikerific: I don't get it. Seriously.

What is a credit-default swap? An insurance policy on debt, so that you get paid if it tanks?


Apparently you do get it. That's exactly what it is.
 
2008-09-23 06:05:45 PM
Wait, you mean Ben Stein thinks this was a case of natural selection?
 
2008-09-23 06:22:40 PM
"One might well wonder if the whole subprime fiasco was not set up just to allow speculators to profit wildly on its collapse"

Well I'll be damned. Pure evil. And genius.
 
2008-09-23 06:22:41 PM
Wait, you mean we should give crap what Ben Stein thinks?
 
2008-09-23 06:22:56 PM
CrankMyBlueSax: Gee Ben, too bad you spent all your credibility on that intelligent design fiasco. I'm afraid anything you have to say from this point on is only a polished turd at best.

THIS!

/But don't forget to put precious stones on that polished turd.
 
2008-09-23 06:23:00 PM
I wondered from the start of firms reporting huge losses... if this just wasn't some phase in the plan for New World Order. The ultimate result is a consolidation in which firms control money.

I'm surprised more foreign firms are snapping bits up, but perhaps they are just waiting for things to settle a little more.
 
2008-09-23 06:23:13 PM
Credit default swaps are not the problem at all. They may have some trouble unwinding but who gives a fark.

Liquidity, or lack thereof, is the issue causing the domino effect.

p.s - Paulson is on the take. Frank Lucas must be laughing his ass off at how greed can corrupt completely.
 
2008-09-23 06:23:23 PM
So Ben thinks this whole mess was designed?
 
2008-09-23 06:23:46 PM
Gee, if only there was somebody to comment on this that had set up a pretense of losing money, but actually profited from it.

Oh wait ...

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2008-09-23 06:23:56 PM
I'm a little curious as to how many of these companies would truly go under without a taxpayer bailout. I mean sure they'd have a few bad quarters and no profits, but shiat happens when you make dumb business mistakes. The huge companies with their established history and assets should be able to secure the capital to stay in business and not default. What may have happened is some geniuses figure out that if they scream "Market collapse, we're all going to go under, everyone will lose their savings, panic" the government will have to step in and save them to avoid the specter of another meltdown, allowing the companies to avoid those painful quarters of no profits.

Or on the other hand they really could be farked. Hard to say either way since the taxpayers haven't seen the real books yet.
 
2008-09-23 06:24:18 PM
Yes, let's all take advice from the man best known as a boring teacher in a movie and a Nixon advisor.
 
2008-09-23 06:24:21 PM
People still listen to Ben Stein?
 
2008-09-23 06:24:23 PM
bikerific: I don't get it. Seriously.

What is a credit-default swap? An insurance policy on debt, so that you get paid if it tanks?


Yes, that's what it is. And because you don't actually need to HOLD the asset in order to have the "insurance" on it, you can trade/speculate on them. And it means that there is an absurdly high dollar value of all these default swaps.
 
2008-09-23 06:24:36 PM
Screw demented old Bush apologists like Ben Stein.
 
2008-09-23 06:24:48 PM
So he's saying that giving a loan to people that will have payments double after two years was actually a scam that was counting on the loans to default?

That's just crazy talk.
 
2008-09-23 06:25:37 PM
Iwouldhitit: bikerific: I don't get it. Seriously.

What is a credit-default swap? An insurance policy on debt, so that you get paid if it tanks?

Apparently you do get it. That's exactly what it is.


Now's your chance to work at Paulson & Co.'s new CDS, MBS and CDO hedge fund, and grill.
 
2008-09-23 06:25:55 PM
snocone: Gee, you think?
Gotta admire a thing of beauty.
This is the biggest bankheist in history. Bank stole itself.
The "take" is only gone if we pay them off.
The money is gone. Can't be gotten back.
Unless, here is the good part...Unless we pay off the bankers and their politicians. Then we get to keep our piss-poor economy.
Money is still gone.
What if we do not pay up?
Fiancial ruin, zombies in the streets.
And the gone money is no good. Really gone.
No good to the bankers and politicians as well.
The real question is will we give in to the extortion or will we all go down together?

Wilma, get the tinfoil and the shotgun..


Ike was a good warm up. You need five days of food and water, not three. Cash and lot's of it.

Of course, if the economy breaks down, there will be nothing to purchase, so spend the cash on booze while there is still time.
 
2008-09-23 06:26:17 PM
Chunes: "One might well wonder if the whole subprime fiasco was not set up just to allow speculators to profit wildly on its collapse"

Well I'll be damned. Pure evil. And genius.


b-b-but the market?1?!?
 
2008-09-23 06:26:38 PM
Ben Stein is truly a hack. He has a mind for trivia but not for context.
 
2008-09-23 06:26:49 PM
Ben... The 25% unemployment number in the Great Depression was a real number. Today's 6% is tampered-with. After the unemployment insurance runs-out, guess what? You aren't unemployed anymore, and are dropped from the system. The 6% number is bull-shiat. Today, someone on the cable news said "they don't want to use the "R" word. Right, what they really don't want to use is the "D" word.
 
2008-09-23 06:27:17 PM
CrankMyBlueSax: Gee Ben, too bad you spent all your credibility on that intelligent design fiasco. I'm afraid anything you have to say from this point on is only a polished turd at best.

Well, if you put your tin foil hat on for a minute, having a discredited crackpot make this kind of statement is a great way to make the idea seem far fetched, if not down right idiotic.

Sorta like how the only people who see UFOs are clueless dullards and Arkansas stick farmers.
 
2008-09-23 06:28:08 PM
So in order to discredit the true cause of the problem, the Republicans trot out the Republican with the worst track record for being right about anything and have him make the claim that credit swaps were the problem. Now they can point and say "It can't be right, Ben said it" or "If Ben is right on that, then he must be right on Evolution as well". Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Phil Gramm should spend the rest of his life in a burn ward cleaning bandages.
 
2008-09-23 06:28:28 PM
planes: Ben... The 25% unemployment number in the Great Depression was a real number. Today's 6% is tampered-with. After the unemployment insurance runs-out, guess what? You aren't unemployed anymore, and are dropped from the system. The 6% number is bull-shiat. Today, someone on the cable news said "they don't want to use the "R" word. Right, what they really don't want to use is the "D" word.

This
 
2008-09-23 06:28:32 PM
Ben Stein stfu nobody cares what you think anymore.
 
2008-09-23 06:28:50 PM
Very good piece. An even better report with more detail is "Buffett's 'time bomb' goes off on Wall Street" Link (new window)
 
2008-09-23 06:30:28 PM
Senescent Dawn: bikerific: I don't get it. Seriously.

What is a credit-default swap? An insurance policy on debt, so that you get paid if it tanks?

Yes, that's what it is. And because you don't actually need to HOLD the asset in order to have the "insurance" on it, you can trade/speculate on them. And it means that there is an absurdly high dollar value of all these default swaps.


Sounds just about as cool as someone else taking out a life insurance policy on you.
 
2008-09-23 06:30:49 PM
I don't get why semi-intelligent and seemingly semi-rational people will pick some subject on which to just go totally coo-coo bananas, making it so they get dismissed on everything else. Ben Stein was a douchebag before he made that insane film, now he's crazy douchebag.

People are so out of touch they'll believe those who committed this fraud on the whole country are really the good guys and those who warned that this was coming are really the bad guys. They'll believe it because those who own the media will tell them that. Seriously, this country is finished. It's just going to be baby steps to a fascist dictatorship from now on and people will be okay with that as long as they can get the newest iPod and be able to vote for their favorite American Idol.
 
2008-09-23 06:30:59 PM
BlackArt: Phil Gramm should spend the rest of his life in a burn ward cleaning bandages.

Why? Bill Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, so many people are blaming for this mess.
 
2008-09-23 06:31:23 PM
CrankMyBlueSax: Gee Ben, too bad you spent all your credibility on that intelligent design fiasco. I'm afraid anything you have to say from this point on is only a polished turd at best.

I knew some dumbass was going to make a dumbass comment like that. And only 4 posts in! Nice job! dumbass
 
2008-09-23 06:34:25 PM
LOL!
 
2008-09-23 06:34:40 PM
stappawho: Sounds just about as cool as someone else taking out a life insurance policy on you.

Exactly. It's as if people took out trillions of dollars on life insurance policies on New Yorkers, and then the city was nuked.
 
2008-09-23 06:36:53 PM
the mess was created by a lightning bolt hitting a mud puddle or something like that
 
2008-09-23 06:36:58 PM
Mortgage companies often require PMI on loans above 80% of the value of the house. They want to make sure that they get paid if you default on your loan so they take out insurance.

Credit default swaps are like PMI but on junk bonds. The insurer has to pay on default, but also on certain other "triggering events" like buyouts, government action, etc.

In a nutshell, it's a way to pass the bag around so that someone else is holding it. It would appear, however, that in this case, the bags have been passed around so much that *everyone's* holding a bag now.
 
2008-09-23 06:38:29 PM
Ben Stein? The creationist? Yeah, let's listen to what he has to say.
 
2008-09-23 06:38:46 PM
So after failure upon failure, what have the evangelicals gained for their slavish devotion to the rightwing? What can you zealots count as a positive to balance out all this negative that you've blindly supported for close to thirty years now? Really, I want to know; why are you still supporting those who wish to destroy this nation for their profit? What do you honestly expect McCain will deliver that twelve years of Reagan/Bush then eight years of Bush the idiot have failed to deliver?
 
2008-09-23 06:39:17 PM
I think he sounds very well informed and able to explain it for us idiots. Just because he is (or isnt) religious has no bering on the discussion.
 
2008-09-23 06:40:37 PM
might?
 
2008-09-23 06:41:31 PM
theframeproblem.files.wordpress.com

This is the same guy that said Hitler did what he did because of Darwinian evolution, and then leaves out the part in Mein Kampf Chapter 9 of Race and Nation were he clearly states ad nauseum that his beliefs about the nature of the subject is almost definitively the same as the modern day creationists.
 
2008-09-23 06:42:03 PM
So what's the big deal here? Ben Stein writing about what a moron he is. I could have told you that after his wing-not movie came out.
 
2008-09-23 06:42:08 PM
"Something D-O-O economics...Anyone, anyone?"
 
2008-09-23 06:42:43 PM
Lots of Ad Hominem attacks here.
 
2008-09-23 06:42:59 PM
failblog.files.wordpress.com

Somehow seems appropriate.
 
2008-09-23 06:43:12 PM
Worry more about what effect this will have on the US Dollar

http://money.cnn.com/data/currencies/index.html
 
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