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(Boston Globe)   Alitalia's unions only days away from victory, which they apparently define as "permanently ending their members' jobs"   (boston.com) divider line 24
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879 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Sep 2008 at 5:50 PM (6 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2008-09-19 05:55:04 PM  
Don't worry, the US government has a bailout plan for that too.
 
2008-09-19 05:56:11 PM  
Subby hates blue collar workers
 
2008-09-19 05:56:44 PM  
sckonkh: Subby hates blue collar workers

No no, UNIONS hate blue collar workers.
 
2008-09-19 05:59:47 PM  
flucto: sckonkh: Subby hates blue collar workers

No no, UNIONS hate blue collar workers.


I submit to your logic
 
2008-09-19 06:00:00 PM  
flucto: sckonkh: Subby hates blue collar workers

No no, UNIONS hate blue collar workers.


If I knew my company was going to send MY job to China, I'd damn sure strike and try to kill the whole company. What would I lose by NOT striking, besides the comfort of knowing that if I didn't strike I'd save the CEO and investors.
 
2008-09-19 06:03:21 PM  
At some point, if the choice is between losing your job while the top execs get fatter, or losing your job while the top execs liquidate the company and get subpoenaed...

Yeah, pretty easy choice.

/unions aren't perfect, but they're usually better than the alternative.
//Next time you take a vacation or get healthcare from your company, thank a union.
 
2008-09-19 06:05:07 PM  
KeatingFive: flucto: sckonkh: Subby hates blue collar workers

No no, UNIONS hate blue collar workers.

If I knew my company was going to send MY job to China, I'd damn sure strike and try to kill the whole company. What would I lose by NOT striking, besides the comfort of knowing that if I didn't strike I'd save the CEO and investors.


So, if a company is going overseas because of your union, you'd feel justified attempting to kill it on the way out?
 
2008-09-19 06:06:13 PM  
Cyclometh: At some point, if the choice is between losing your job while the top execs get fatter, or losing your job while the top execs liquidate the company and get subpoenaed...

Yeah, pretty easy choice.

/unions aren't perfect, but they're usually better than the alternative.
//Next time you take a vacation or get healthcare from your company, thank a union.


That is not true. It's true in some cases, but not for everyone.
 
2008-09-19 06:11:31 PM  
alitalia has been a hopeless mess for 30 years. nothing much to do with unions
 
2008-09-19 06:13:38 PM  
I wonder how many companies have failed from a bad union versus how many have failed because of bad management?
 
2008-09-19 06:14:48 PM  
jgbrowning: I wonder how many companies have failed from a bad union versus how many have failed because of bad management?

Even if we knew that number, they'd be irrelevant.
 
2008-09-19 06:17:15 PM  
KeatingFive: flucto: sckonkh: Subby hates blue collar workers

No no, UNIONS hate blue collar workers.

If I knew my company was going to send MY job to China, I'd damn sure strike and try to kill the whole company. What would I lose by NOT striking, besides the comfort of knowing that if I didn't strike I'd save the CEO and investors.


so what was alitalia going to do? outsource pilots, mechanics, and stewards to china? whos going to man the plane then? in regards to this case, you're an idiot.
 
2008-09-19 06:19:08 PM  
Treygreen13: KeatingFive: flucto: sckonkh: Subby hates blue collar workers

No no, UNIONS hate blue collar workers.

If I knew my company was going to send MY job to China, I'd damn sure strike and try to kill the whole company. What would I lose by NOT striking, besides the comfort of knowing that if I didn't strike I'd save the CEO and investors.

So, if a company is going overseas because of your union, you'd feel justified attempting to kill it on the way out?


Many companies are going overseas simply because they're able to get cheaper labor there, because workers there either don't or can't organize.

It's not because of the union, it's because unions made it impractical to exploit laborers in the US, so now companies try to find laborers they can exploit.

Don't blame unions because corporations are more interested in money than ethical treatment of workers.
 
2008-09-19 06:21:24 PM  
The company is trying to enter a form of bankruptcy that would allow it to continue to operate and keep people employed. The union is blocking that, which will result in the whole thing folding and EVERYONE losing their jobs. Yeah, that makes sense.
 
2008-09-19 06:22:14 PM  
Cyclometh: Treygreen13: KeatingFive: flucto: sckonkh: Subby hates blue collar workers

No no, UNIONS hate blue collar workers.

If I knew my company was going to send MY job to China, I'd damn sure strike and try to kill the whole company. What would I lose by NOT striking, besides the comfort of knowing that if I didn't strike I'd save the CEO and investors.

So, if a company is going overseas because of your union, you'd feel justified attempting to kill it on the way out?

Many companies are going overseas simply because they're able to get cheaper labor there, because workers there either don't or can't organize.

It's not because of the union, it's because unions made it impractical to exploit laborers in the US, so now companies try to find laborers they can exploit.

Don't blame unions because corporations are more interested in money than ethical treatment of workers.


Sorry to break into this fascinating discussion, but what the fark does this have to do with an airline in Italy?

You can't exactly outsource baggage handlers, after all.
 
2008-09-19 06:35:52 PM  
Cyclometh: Treygreen13: KeatingFive: flucto: sckonkh: Subby hates blue collar workers

No no, UNIONS hate blue collar workers.

If I knew my company was going to send MY job to China, I'd damn sure strike and try to kill the whole company. What would I lose by NOT striking, besides the comfort of knowing that if I didn't strike I'd save the CEO and investors.

So, if a company is going overseas because of your union, you'd feel justified attempting to kill it on the way out?

Many companies are going overseas simply because they're able to get cheaper labor there, because workers there either don't or can't organize.

It's not because of the union, it's because unions made it impractical to exploit laborers in the US, so now companies try to find laborers they can exploit.

Don't blame unions because corporations are more interested in money than ethical treatment of workers.


Some unions are interested in keeping the balance of ethical treatment and the overall health of the company.

However, some are utter failures that only serve to slowly force the business out of the country. You can't state that all unions are out to protect the rights of the little guy, and that all corporations are here to feast off the labor of it's workers.

The article demonstrates an example of a Union forcing a company to die.
 
2008-09-19 06:41:48 PM  
Treygreen13: jgbrowning: I wonder how many companies have failed from a bad union versus how many have failed because of bad management?

Even if we knew that number, they'd be irrelevant.


Whew! I'm glad that's settled.

/must be more bad unions causing company failures than bad management
//bad unions
///bad bad bad
 
2008-09-19 06:49:42 PM  
jgbrowning: Treygreen13: jgbrowning: I wonder how many companies have failed from a bad union versus how many have failed because of bad management?

Even if we knew that number, they'd be irrelevant.

Whew! I'm glad that's settled.

/must be more bad unions causing company failures than bad management
//bad unions
///bad bad bad


If you had some way to cross-reference those with unions with those that failed because of bad management, it'd be relevant.
 
2008-09-19 06:57:12 PM  
Treygreen13: If you had some way to cross-reference those with unions with those that failed because of bad management, it'd be relevant.

Hey, I already said I'm glad the issue is settled by being irrelevant.
 
2008-09-19 06:58:02 PM  
jgbrowning: Treygreen13: jgbrowning: I wonder how many companies have failed from a bad union versus how many have failed because of bad management?

Even if we knew that number, they'd be irrelevant.

Whew! I'm glad that's settled.

/must be more bad unions causing company failures than bad management
//bad unions
///bad bad bad


Bad unions don't cause company failures...bad unions scare the shiat out of companies so they move jobs to countries without them.

Unions at heart aren't bad...but once they start getting greedy they're pretty self-destructive.
 
2008-09-19 10:12:25 PM  
Treygreen13: Some unions are interested in keeping the balance of ethical treatment and the overall health of the company.

However, some are utter failures that only serve to slowly force the business out of the country. You can't state that all unions are out to protect the rights of the little guy, and that all corporations are here to feast off the labor of it's workers.

The article demonstrates an example of a Union forcing a company to die.


Seems unlikely they will kill it - both the union and the company know they just need to drag things out far enough to force Berlusconi to intervene and bail them out, allowing them to avoid the job cuts.
 
2008-09-20 04:01:11 AM  
KeatingFive: If I knew my company was going to send MY job to China, I'd damn sure strike and try to kill the whole company. What would I lose by NOT striking, besides the comfort of knowing that if I didn't strike I'd save the CEO and investors.

Read the goddamn article. That isn't what's happening.

Union members: Proudly illiterate since 1929.
 
2008-09-20 04:12:35 AM  
jgbrowning: I wonder how many companies have failed from a bad union versus how many have failed because of bad management?

Why not from both at once?
Unions can demand unsustainable pay/benefit packages, and Management can agree to them when they shouldn't.

Take the auto industry - $40/hr jobs that don't even require a HS education and worker benefit packages that were the envy of Blue Collars everywhere WERE the rule. However, when your workforce becomes TOO expensive, you have to cut corners elsewhere to keep making profits. Hence, crappy American cars. Causing poor sales, leading to loss of jobs.
 
2008-09-20 05:53:07 PM  
Malbar: KeatingFive: If I knew my company was going to send MY job to China, I'd damn sure strike and try to kill the whole company. What would I lose by NOT striking, besides the comfort of knowing that if I didn't strike I'd save the CEO and investors.

Read the goddamn article. That isn't what's happening.

Union members: Proudly illiterate since 1929.


Makes you wonder how many of them have 80% of their retirement investments in the company stock.
 
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